The Failure of Objectivists to Take My Advice

[jriggenbach]

Topic: The Failure of Objectivists (and Most Other Humans) to Take My Advice and Do What I Know to Be Best

>Phil has just coasted through life on his gift for gab and his geniality. He has never taken the trouble to learn anything in depth. His knowledge of every subject in which he claims expertise is in fact superficial - enough to impress those who know even less than he, but far from enough to pass muster with anyone who actually knows anything substantial about the field in question. And now he expects people, many of whom actually know something, to "take his advice" and run the Objectivist movement the way he thinks it ought to be run. The whole thing would be richly comical if it weren't so sad. (BdF)

When I read Bill de Forrest's post, I was appalled. His writing is utterly ineffective. He begins a sentence with a conjunction. He repeatedly includes the logical fallacy of affirming the consequent. And there is no way to figure out what audience Bill thought he could reach with this piece. It's too long for an op-ed, too short for a magazine feature. This seems to me just one more illustrative example of what I call the Objectivists Uninterested in Taking Phil's Advice and Doing What He Knows to Be Best with Respect to the Objectivist Movement Syndrome (OUITPAADWHKTBBWRTTOMS), a mental condition which has all but crippled the leaders of the major Objectivist institutions. Preliminary reports from summer seminars and other gatherings held by such institutions during the first three weeks of the summer of 2010 suggest that they have been rife with OUITPAADWHKTBBWRTTOMS, not to mention O.U.I.T.P.A.A.D.W.H.K.T.B.B.W.R.T.T.O,M,S, and that most speakers at these events have obviously failed to consider, much less to profit by, my views on benevolence and civility.

Phillip Coates

[Philip Coates]

[9thdoctor]

I thought the idea was that threads get moved to The Garbage Pile, not get started there. I prefer delivering Phil his lumps only after he makes his regularly scheduled dump, and then as a reply with proper use of the quote function. I find this pre-emptive Phil bashing distasteful. It’s almost as bad as going to another O’ist site to complain about how you’re treated on the first. If one's been banned or is being moderated here it would be one thing, but taking your gripes to where your opponents can’t reply, that’s just lame.

Hey look, Michael Marotta says he’s not posting here anymore. Pity, one could always count on him for the most unexpected and often bizarre misreadings of what other people write.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Dennis,

I had not even seen that Rebirth of Reason thread Phil started entitled Here's Another Reason I'm Getting More and More Disgusted with OL until I clicked on your link just now.

Hmmm...

I didn't read it yet, but is Phil doing some schism stuff--the kind he likes to bash?

In the early days of OL, I remember I once removed a very good response to a person I used to esteem highly (a guy named John Newnham) who started a whole thread on Solo Passion (where I had just been banned) about why I was a scumbag. His thread came out of nowhere. Literally. We had no falling out.

My response was a good response--a good one for real, too. The guy was a writer and I basically said it didn't matter what he thought of me, he just needed to write and write more and and nurture his talent. Unfortunately, he hasn't done that--or at least I have not seen his name appear anywhere. I just looked on Google and there are plenty of people of the same name, but I didn't come across him.

Anyway, I removed my response back then--even though it was far from schism stuff--because one Phil Coates complained that one should never use one forum to respond to attacks from another. One should stay to the high ground, especially seeing how this schism-like behavior is the main problem with the Objectivist movement.

Heh...

Anyway, I see you're upset. Don't be. Phil is Phil, warts and all. I like him.

The main point is that he has no real capacity to damage OL, even if he wanted to. As to his inconsistencies, well... Phil is Phil, warts and all. I don't ever expect him to be consistent. In fact, I believe he can't not be inconsistent due to his very nature.

Michael

EDIT: Also, don't worry about Michael M. He comes and goes at his own will, as he has done since the beginning. And that's the way it should be. My policy is what is good for each individual (with respect to posting or not) is good for OL.

[9thdoctor]

Anyway, I see you're upset. Don't be. Phil is Phil, warts and all. I like him.

Me upset? Nope. Maybe some of the heightened tone from my lengthy (for me) rant on the Mosque thread spilled over, I really don’t see it though. When I say something is “lame”, that’s a pretty light criticism. Phil’s a hoot, I like him too. And I do think JR's overdoing the Phil-bashing, it's even started to get boring.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Phil's a hoot, I like him too. And I do think JR's overdoing the Phil-bashing, it's even started to get boring.

Dennis,

But if you take away the comedy, what's left?

Michael

[9thdoctor]

But if you take away the comedy, what's left?

From Phil? He’s written some good straight faced stuff, his takedown of Comrade Sonia comes to mind. I thought his egghead thread was garbage. So he hits homeruns, he strikes out, who knows what his batting average is.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Dennis,

Once in a while Phil gets things right.

But in intellectual terms, I feel he's mostly in a shell, afraid to come out. He covers it over by lecturing people and hunkering down into generalities, usually with numbers on them. (How's that for armchair psychology? )

He certainly has called people some names, recently, hasn't he?

Makes you wonder...

EDIT: Jim, on another thread, says he's got guts. Hmmmmm...

Michael

[sbeaulieu]

Michael,

My response is slightly off-topic, but you might find it humorous and enlightening.

After reading your response with the Rebirth of Reason link, I was unable to access it through my military net. However, I'm writing this response from it.

I'm guessing some folks in the military have your back ;)

P.S. If I don't post from work for a while, you'll know why...haha!

~ Shane

[9thdoctor]

Jim, on another thread, says he's got guts. Hmmmmm...

Guts? To sling mud on an internet forum? Alright…but here’s Phil’s new theme song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RjXY_-PUbo&feature=related

After reading your response with the Rebirth of Reason link, I was unable to access it through my military net. However, I'm writing this response from it.

So RoR is blocked but OL isn’t? What about SLOP and OO?

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Shane,

The military is blocking some philosophical sites and allowing others to be seen on military Internet facilities?

They must have their reasons, but, other than not wanting soldiers to waste time, I can't think of any good ones.

Michael

[Philip Coates]

ND, Michael et al...

Just go ahead and talk about me. Like a bug on a slide ready for psychological dissection. Simply ignore me; pretend I'm not even here......

[9thdoctor]

Like a bug on a slide ready for psychological dissection.

What does E.B. White advise about mixed metaphors?

“Because he's a butterfly, who toys with women's hearts and throws them aside like soiled gloves!”

Roderick Spode, from The Code of the Woosters, P.G. Wodehouse

[Philip Coates]

> Like a bug on a slide ready for psychological dissection.

> What does E.B. White advise about mixed metaphors?

I think you missed the joke. Trying to psychologize is as inappropriate as looking at a bug and trying to figure out its psychology.

ND, I realize my humor can be too subtle for someone whose mind is on the level of Joycean wordplay. But try to keep up.

[9thdoctor]

ND, I realize my humor can be too subtle for someone whose mind is on the level of Joycean wordplay. But try to keep up.

Tu quoque

[Rich Engle]

I had not even seen that Rebirth of Reason thread Phil started entitled Here's Another Reason I'm Getting More and More Disgusted with OL until I clicked on your link just now.

(MSK)

I read it, there's not much to it, no biggie. I think the worst part was reminding myself that not only is Luke Setzer still around, but is the "Florida RoR Club Coordinator." Which I'm thinking might mean that, in addition to himself, there are likely between 1-3 Mini-Lukes running around here. Hopefully up North, and on the other coast.

rde

Starting to agree with wife's desire to move to St. Thomas

Edited July 19, 2010 by Rich Engle

[Robert Campbell]

It's been a long long time since I so much as looked at RoR.

Reviewing the thread in question, I was surprised to find Luke Setzer still hanging out there. He's obviously missed his calling: he should have stayed with Lindsay Perigo.

Robert Campbell