Suicide bomber school for children

Michael Stuart Kelly · June 22, 2010

Suicide bomber school for children

Here is a TED talk by Sharmeen Obaid-Chinoy entitled "Inside a school for suicide bombers." It is quite eye-opening.

One of the things that stood out to me was the audience response. TED is predominantly a liberal audience--probably the best intellectual environment of what liberals can be when they are good--and the audience sat there in shocked silence with only lukewarm applause afterward. I got the strangest feeling that this was not the message they wanted or expected to hear.

I didn't see any of the smug sanctimoniousness I usually see with liberal audiences when they think they are being open-minded. In fact, I didn't get the feeling I was witnessing a liberal audience at all--just an audience of human beings who forgot all about those things for a moment.

Why?

Time for speculation, but I believe this is something that needs to be speculated about. And it applies equally as well to all sides of the Islamic culture debate you find in the Western world--including Objectivists and libertarians.

The first impact is that when you see naked truth like what is given in this talk and the excerpts Ms. Obaid-Chinoy presents from her upcoming documentary, you realize that you don't know jack about that topic. All the screaming and yelling and partisan finger-pointing and preaching you have been witnessing and/or doing--all of it--is flat-out wrong. That means that you are wrong--and as wrong as can be--on something you felt strongly about, that you were convinced was the truth.

That is quite uncomfortable. It always is when it is that clear.

The second is being confronted by raw evil. I don't recall ever seeing such a degree of evil this close up before. There is no excuse for the Taliban brainwashing poor children to turn them into guided missiles against civilians except for a strong commitment to evil. Pure unadulterated raw naked malicious evil--hatred of any-and-all human life that does not obey them, and indifference toward the human beings who do obey them.

Nobody is used to seeing that degree of evil. Not even in the movies. That, too, is uncomfortable.

Here in O-Land and L-Land, we need to look at that as the fact--as the true explanation for the growth of suicide bombers. Not the preconceived notions we have read here and there, nor speculations about the average Muslim mentality--which most of us do not know well. I have no doubt the suicide bombers in other Muslim societies are systematically brainwashed at isolated schools in the same fashion.

I don't care for the phrase, "crime against humanity," but I can't think of a better one for the Taliban schools for suicide bombers.

The Taliban (and any other group practicing this vile crap) needs to be classified in the minds of all decent people as a hate cult, not a branch of Islam. It bears the same relationship to Islam as the KKK did to Christianity.

Then it needs to be eradicated as both a political entity and an organized body of thought. And I mean eradicated by force--the same force they use on others. Attacked by a trained military with the express purpose of destroying it, not in retaliation, but in outright attack. The children should be wrenched free of these monsters and deprogrammed.

I hold that the owners and teachers of these suicide bomber schools should be captured, tried, and thrown in jail for life--if not shot or hung first. I never thought I would agree with doing something like that, but there it is. That's exactly what I believe justice is in their case.

These people rape Islam, abort the best of their children's souls, and spit in the face of their Allah.

Michael

anthony · June 22, 2010

There is nothing like seeing pure evil to put everything into perspective - and to fully appreciate the unique, life-affirming quality of Rand's philosophy.

Good; let those smug liberal intellectuals writhe uncomfortably in their seats. Perhaps the more honest of them will realize that this is the logical outcome of unfocused, do-gooding 'compassion'. Perhaps not.

Without the tacit (sometimes explicit) support for these 'persecuted' groups, suicide massacres would have long been discarded as a "tactic", I believe.

Not that those of Faith, all other faiths, should feel morally superior. Potentially, any religious group could conceivably come to the same point of a Taliban, imo.

"But we didn't mean it..."

BaalChatzaf · June 22, 2010

I am not the least bit surprised. I have been telling people for years there is something in the religion Islam that has the potential (and all too often the actuality) of turning ordinary human beings into fiends.

I told you so. I told you so. I told you so.

Ba'al Chatzaf

Michael Stuart Kelly · June 22, 2010

Bob,

Boy, did you ever miss my point.

Jews could do that if evil enough.

Anybody could. (How about Germans or Russians or Chinese for a thought?)

Islam did not do that. Normal Muslims did not do that.

Evil men did that.

You know it in your soul, too.

Michael

Brant Gaede · June 22, 2010

You can take 10 yo boys and turn them into human killing machines. They'll shoot anybody they're told to shoot without conscience. Even babies. This happened in Africa. The older the soldier the less malleable he is. The most dangerous group of people in the world consists of unmarried teenage males armed with semi and automatic rifles. Child suicide bombers are little compared to the absolute genocide young killers are easily trained to partake in. They hardly have to be Moslim. If you are 18 yo and in good health, the U.S. army will be happy to train you to be a killer. You'll have a leash on you, of course.

--Brant

Edited June 22, 2010 by Brant Gaede

BaalChatzaf · June 22, 2010

Bob,
Boy, did you ever miss my point.
Jews could do that if evil enough.
Anybody could. (How about Germans or Russians or Chinese for a thought?)
Islam did not do that. Normal Muslims did not do that.
Evil men did that.
You know it in your soul, too.
Michael

I know in my brains that the meme structure of Islam conduces to martydom.

Among the Jews - To Life! is the overwhelming attitude and inclination. L'Chayim is the toast. The life of this toast is the life here on this earth in our bodies, not in some Hereafter. Early Judaism didn't even have a Hereafter.

Is there any corresponding sentiment in Islam itself. I sure don't see it. Islam reeks of death and puts the "real" life in a paradise replete with flowing juice fountains and 72 lovely virgins for each martyr male. There is a built in death premise in Islam that is not present in Judaism.

And yes. Evil men can do evil things, but in the entire history of Judaism there never was an educational program to turn young boys into murders. This surely has been the case since the Dispersion by the Romans, 1900 years or so. Islam is going on 1500 years and is still as deadly as ever. From the Assassin movement in Persia (circa 900 c.e.) to the present it has been a major thread in their religion.

Also look at the headlines. When a suicide bomb (actually a homicide bomb) goes off who is the the most frequent perpetrator? You know who it is. You know in your heart.

Ba'al Chatzaf

Michael Stuart Kelly · June 22, 2010

Bob,

Blah blah blah.

Jews are all good and Muslims are all bad.

Where have I heard that one before?

And it's only free will on the Muslim part. They choose to be bad. Anyway, they are all brainwashed by evil Islam. Jews don't have to choose to be good. They just are. There's a Jew goodness genome.

Yeah, right.

Why don't we just go ahead and scapegoat Muslims?

Now there's an idea.

Michael

Libertarian Muslim · June 22, 2010

Thank you for the video Michael, I appreciate that you posted it. These are the same things that I've been saying for years.. It's about education and beating the Taliban and Al Qaeda with better ideas.

That is why the solution can only come from Muslims and not the West.. The Muslim world needs to be educated by impartial Muslims who can't be seen to be agents of the West, rather expressing the ideas that actually come from the Qur'an and Sunnah of the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him..

Now do you understand why I push so hard to get the ideas of Libertarianism compared with Islam's?

PS. Also, I don't think that they clapped in any subdued way at the end, if anything, it seemed relatively comparable to the first set of clapping.

Martin Radwin · June 23, 2010

Suicide bomber school for children
Here is a TED talk by Sharmeen Obaid-Chinoy entitled "Inside a school for suicide bombers." It is quite eye-opening.
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One of the things that stood out to me was the audience response. TED is predominantly a liberal audience--probably the best intellectual environment of what liberals can be when they are good--and the audience sat there in shocked silence with only lukewarm applause afterward. I got the strangest feeling that this was not the message they wanted or expected to hear.
I didn't see any of the smug sanctimoniousness I usually see with liberal audiences when they think they are being open-minded. In fact, I didn't get the feeling I was witnessing a liberal audience at all--just an audience of human beings who forgot all about those things for a moment.
Why?
Time for speculation, but I believe this is something that needs to be speculated about. And it applies equally as well to all sides of the Islamic culture debate you find in the Western world--including Objectivists and libertarians.
The first impact is that when you see naked truth like what is given in this talk and the excerpts Ms. Obaid-Chinoy presents from her upcoming documentary, you realize that you don't know jack about that topic. All the screaming and yelling and partisan finger-pointing and preaching you have been witnessing and/or doing--all of it--is flat-out wrong. That means that you are wrong--and as wrong as can be--on something you felt strongly about, that you were convinced was the truth.
That is quite uncomfortable. It always is when it is that clear.
The second is being confronted by raw evil. I don't recall ever seeing such a degree of evil this close up before. There is no excuse for the Taliban brainwashing poor children to turn them into guided missiles against civilians except for a strong commitment to evil. Pure unadulterated raw naked malicious evil--hatred of any-and-all human life that does not obey them, and indifference toward the human beings who do obey them.
Nobody is used to seeing that degree of evil. Not even in the movies. That, too, is uncomfortable.
Here in O-Land and L-Land, we need to look at that as the fact--as the true explanation for the growth of suicide bombers. Not the preconceived notions we have read here and there, nor speculations about the average Muslim mentality--which most of us do not know well. I have no doubt the suicide bombers in other Muslim societies are systematically brainwashed at isolated schools in the same fashion.
I don't care for the phrase, "crime against humanity," but I can't think of a better one for the Taliban schools for suicide bombers.
The Taliban (and any other group practicing this vile crap) needs to be classified in the minds of all decent people as a hate cult, not a branch of Islam. It bears the same relationship to Islam as the KKK did to Christianity.
Then it needs to be eradicated as both a political entity and an organized body of thought. And I mean eradicated by force--the same force they use on others. Attacked by a trained military with the express purpose of destroying it, not in retaliation, but in outright attack. The children should be wrenched free of these monsters and deprogrammed.
I hold that the owners and teachers of these suicide bomber schools should be captured, tried, and thrown in jail for life--if not shot or hung first. I never thought I would agree with doing something like that, but there it is. That's exactly what I believe justice is in their case.
These people rape Islam, abort the best of their children's souls, and spit in the face of their Allah.
Michael

The war in Afghanistan is not eradicating the Taliban, or doing anything to fix the above problems. It is actually making conditions in Afghanistan much worse, all paid for by the American taxpayer.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/22/world/asia/22contractors.html

KABUL, Afghanistan — American taxpayers have inadvertently created a network of warlords across Afghanistan who are making millions of dollars escorting NATO convoys and operating outside the control of either the Afghan government or the American and NATO militaries, according to the results of a Congressional investigation released Monday.

The investigation, begun last year by the House Subcommittee for National Security, found that money given to these Afghan warlords often amounts to little more than mafia-style protection payments, with some NATO convoys that refused to pay the warlords coming under attack.

The subcommittee, led by Representative John F. Tierney, Democrat of Massachusetts, also uncovered evidence suggesting that American taxpayer money is making its way to the Taliban. Several trucking company supervisors told investigators that they believed the gunmen they hired to escort their convoys bribed the Taliban not to attack.

The warlords who are paid with American money, the investigators said, are undermining the legitimate Afghan government that Americans soldiers and Marines are struggling to build, and will most likely threaten the government long after the Americans and NATO leave.

The source of the taxpayer money is a $2.1 billion contract called Host Nation Trucking, which pays for the movement of food and supplies to some 200 American bases across this arid, mountainous country, which in many places has no paved roads.

The 79-page report, entitled “Warlord Inc.,” paints an anarchic picture of contemporary Afghanistan, with the country’s major highways being controlled by groups of freelance gunmen who answer to no one — and who are being paid for by the United States.

Afghanistan, the investigation found, plays host to hundreds of unregistered private security companies employing as many as 70,000 largely unsupervised gunmen.

“The principal private security subcontractors,” the report said, “are warlords, strongmen, commanders and militia leaders who compete with the Afghan central government for power and authority.

“The warlords thrive in a vacuum of government authority, and their interests are in fundamental conflict with U.S. aims to build a strong Afghan government,” the report said.

At the heart of the problem, the investigation found, is that the American military pays trucking companies to move its supplies across Afghanistan — and leaves it up to the trucking companies to protect themselves. The trucking companies in turn pay warlords and commanders to provide security.

These subcontracts, the investigation found, are handed out without any oversight from the Department of Defense, despite clear instructions from Congress that the department provide such oversight. The report states that military officers in Kabul had little idea whom the trucking companies were paying to provide security or how much they spent for it, and had rarely if ever inspected a convoy to find out.

The report recommends that the military award the trucking contracts and security contracts separately.

It also lists a number of warlords who control stretches of road in Afghanistan: Ruhullah, who like many Afghans goes by one name, has a reputation for dealing ruthlessly with the villages along the highways he controls; Matiulllah Khan, whose 2,000-man militia controls the road between Kandahar and Tirinkot; and Abdul Razziq, the commander of the border police in Spin Boldak, one of the principal trucking routes into the country.

Mr. Ruhullah commands a force of about 600 gunmen that works for Watan Risk Management, a security firm overseen by Rashid and Rateb Popal, who are cousins of President Hamid Karzai. In an interview last month, Rashid Popal denied that his company had paid any money to Taliban insurgents.

The report said Watan Risk Management and Mr. Ruhullah have been paid “several tens of millions of dollars” to escort NATO convoys.

“Long after the United States leaves Afghanistan, and the convoy security business shuts down, these warlords will likely continue to play a major role as autonomous centers of political, economic and military power,” the report said.

The report detailed episodes when trucking companies that refused to pay warlords to escort their trucks were attacked by the same men. A trucking company executive who refused to pay Mr. Ruhullah told investigators that his trucks were attacked by Mr. Ruhullah’s fighters. Mr. Ruhullah, the executive said, “is willing to ruthlessly exploit the lack of military control along the routes on which he operates.”

Brant Gaede · June 23, 2010

Much worse than Vietnam. If any of this shit had come down in Vietnam it would have been smashed down. There were problems regardless. A lot of corruption.

--Brant

Libertarian Muslim · June 23, 2010

Much worse than Vietnam. If any of this shit had come down in Vietnam it would have been smashed down. There were problems regardless. A lot of corruption.
--Brant

And if the US Government didn't pay off these warlords they'd have casualties that would reflect that of Vietnam.. Those warlords would be fighting against the US and NATO.

That's what happens when you buy your opposition, especially when those opposition are ruthless savages.

Michael Stuart Kelly · June 23, 2010

That is why the solution can only come from Muslims and not the West.. The Muslim world needs to be educated by impartial Muslims who can't be seen to be agents of the West, rather expressing the ideas that actually come from the Qur'an and Sunnah of the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him..

Adonis,

This is a double-edged sword. Since those suicide bombers also blow up Americans, I see it as perfectly reasonable that the US military fight the structure that creates them.

But I fully agree with you about the complexity of paying off tribal savage monsters. The USA is supposed to be the good guys, not get in bed with the bad guys for short-term gains. But that's what it does--and I am strongly against that. But I don't know how to solve the casualty issue.

PS. Also, I don't think that they clapped in any subdued way at the end, if anything, it seemed relatively comparable to the first set of clapping.

Perception is a funny thing. From your perspective of coming upon this cold, I guess they did not sound subdued. From mine, I had just watched 3 other TED lectures right before that one and the crowd was wildly applauding at the end in those three, even with some yelps, whistling, etc., (that is the norm there). So the response sounded bland at best.

As a writer, I have to remember what the reader's perspective is when I give my impressions, and I didn't, so I'm glad you mentioned that. I should have explained the audience reaction in terms of the contrast I perceived and not just reported it as a simple fact.

Michael

Libertarian Muslim · June 23, 2010

Adonis,
This is a double-edged sword. Since those suicide bombers also blow up Americans, I see it as perfectly reasonable that the US military fight the structure that creates them.
But I fully agree with you about the complexity of paying off tribal savage monsters. The USA is supposed to be the good guys, not get in bed with the bad guys for short-term gains. But that's what it does--and I am strongly against that. But I don't know how to solve the casualty issue.

If the US Military were to fight the structure that creates these terrorists they'd have to fight their own president, his intelligence apparatus, his cronies and his corporate fatcat supporters.. Not just the current president's but every presidents' cronies and entourage since the 60s.

THEY created the Taliban and Al Qaeda, heck we know it today, Pakistan's ISI today still funds and supports the Taliban and the US Government supports the ISI.. The US Government has also been in bed with the religious extremist for years.. They were largely created in what I believe to be a joint venture of the Middle Eastern tyrants, particularly those within the Gulf and the Anglo European powers.. Each gives reason for the other to exist..

9thdoctor · June 23, 2010

Here's an interesting talk on the psychology of suicide bombers:

Suicide bomber school for children

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