Everybody Draw Mohammed Day - May 20, 2010


Michael Stuart Kelly

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The UK got itself in the pickle with equivocations and compromises, which leads to further compromises. Try to stop incitement, you try to stop people's thoughts. The best recourse is let the madmen speak and laugh at them. But first declare ISIS an enemy of the State, and so whichever UK citizen is "incited" or "radicalized" to go and join them can be arrested as traitor when he returns. (If he returns).

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The UK got itself in the pickle with equivocations and compromises, which leads to further compromises. Try to stop incitement, you try to stop people's thoughts. The best recourse is let the madmen speak and laugh at them. But first decare ISIS an enemy of the State, and so whichever UK citizen is "incited" or "radicalized" to go and join them can be arrested as traitor when he returns. (If he returns).

Yes Tony.

Thanks LM.

This is in complete violation of our First Amendment which neither the Brits or SA's have that is in effect.

Americans keep forgetting about the miracle that this Limited Constitutional Republic that is also the number one economic and military power on the planet and is clinging to individual rights, as well as our guns and bibles according to the marxist in the White House

A...

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"Americans keep forgetting about the miracle that this Limited Constitutional Republic..."

The last two or three generations were not taught that, except home-schooled perhaps, and a few with enlightened and engaged parents.

"Every conqueror since antiquity has known what our government knows: just take over how the children are raised, the rest will take care of itself. From the way we were taught to think in school, to the way we are conditioned to parent by the media—the parents of today are raising people who believe in and grow up to create bigger and bigger government."

-Roslyn Ross

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Is no one else concerned with the type of legislation that might be required to charge someone with a crime like this? As to how flimsy the evidence might be and how it could be used to deprive the people of the UK of their liberty in the future?

I hate the 'anti-terror' laws that expand the remit of the spy agencies. curtail travel on vague grounds of security, or criminalize speech -- without checks and balances to ensure individual freedom from politically-driven prosecutions. Canada's Bill C-51 has just the amount of vagueness and overreach that makes me suspect a future government will use it to crack down on dissent (for example by making certain protests/campaigns against federal policies a possible 'terror' crime).

As for the UK, Choudary and co-accused were 'testing' the law's reach, of course. Choudary is plain and simple. He believes that ISIS is the template for god's government on the earth. He has accepted the authority of the war-criminal death-cult leader Baghdadi. He is already banned from travel, having had his passport nullified. He will never shut up or stop to think rationally on any issue of 'freedom.' He is completely alienated from the real world, and in his delusion thinks Sharia will come to rule Albion.

He clearly supports ISIS against the government of his own country. Do I support his prosecution? No, not if his organizing and actions have stayed this side of criminal incitement or conspiracy to murder. The new British law makes 'support' of a proscribed group an offence. What kinds of 'support' are going to be actually proved in court?

I think his trial will be interesting, because he is a complete idiot, and the law has much wiggle room.

-- LM, have you been lurking all this time? If not, please bring us to date on your journey. Last time we met you were still feeling your way to a society and work that reflected your religious values. What's up? You certainly added a human face to The Muslim that some of us discuss. I hope you stick around and engage.

Edited by william.scherk
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"Americans keep forgetting about the miracle that this Limited Constitutional Republic..."

The last two or three generations were not taught that, except home-schooled perhaps, and a few with enlightened and engaged parents.

"Every conqueror since antiquity has known what our government knows: just take over how the children are raised, the rest will take care of itself. From the way we were taught to think in school, to the way we are conditioned to parent by the media—the parents of today are raising people who believe in and grow up to create bigger and bigger government."

-Roslyn Ross

Yep, creation of the common child...goes perfectly with common core and Jeb "The Bashful" Bush...

This was a thread started on John Dewey and the usual excellent input by Reidy and Stephen...

http://www.objectivistliving.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=14259#entry206845

A...

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Justice Louis Brandeis:

Those who won our independence... believed that freedom to think as you will and to speak as you think are means indispensable to the discovery and spread of political truth... that the greatest menace to freedom is an inert people...

"Inert people". I like it.

The thing is I believe, not to be afraid of 'political UNtruth'. As Britain should have, a very clear line between expression and physical acts.

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The UK got itself in the pickle with equivocations and compromises, which leads to further compromises. Try to stop incitement, you try to stop people's thoughts. The best recourse is let the madmen speak and laugh at them. But first declare ISIS an enemy of the State, and so whichever UK citizen is "incited" or "radicalized" to go and join them can be arrested as traitor when he returns. (If he returns).

As far as I'm concerned Western countries should let people leave and join ISIS and allow them to take the majority of their wealth with them, too.

Give them their opportunity to declare their allegiance to ISIS for safe passage with the condition that they renounce their citizenship and let them take the majority of their wealth with them.

Any person found to be trying to leave their home country to join ISIS without following this path should then be tried for treason and executed.

ISIS would get so paranoid by the free flowing of people going there with our permission that they'll screw it up by treating almost everyone as a spy.

Plus it'll mean we can fight them over there rather than fight them here.

Yes Tony.

Thanks LM.

This is in complete violation of our First Amendment which neither the Brits or SA's have that is in effect.

Americans keep forgetting about the miracle that this Limited Constitutional Republic that is also the number one economic and military power on the planet and is clinging to individual rights, as well as our guns and bibles according to the marxist in the White House

A...

I completely agree, except for the Marxist thing.

-- LM, have you been lurking all this time? If not, please bring us to date on your journey. Last time we met you were still feeling your way to a society and work that reflected your religious values. What's up? You certainly added a human face to The Muslim that some of us discuss. I hope you stick around and engage.

I've been on a very interesting journey of discovery.

In 2011 I spent a short amount of time fighting pirates on the Red Sea.

In 2012 I moved to the USA, got married to an amazing woman and am currently a consultant in the security field specializing in Islamic Extremism. I live an hour away from Thomas Jefferson's home, Monticello and visit often to reflect on how amazing this man and his compatriots were, to risk their lives, wealth and honor to set up what is the greatest experiment in government in the history of the earth.

I intend to enlist in the military soon and I hope to spend the rest of my life supporting and defending the US Constitution and protecting our way of life against our enemies like ISIS and Al Qaeda etc. In doing so I hope to set an example to inspire other Muslims and especially my own progeny (when I have them) to devote their life in service to protect this nation.

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The UK got itself in the pickle with equivocations and compromises, which leads to further compromises. Try to stop incitement, you try to stop people's thoughts. The best recourse is let the madmen speak and laugh at them. But first declare ISIS an enemy of the State, and so whichever UK citizen is "incited" or "radicalized" to go and join them can be arrested as traitor when he returns. (If he returns).

As far as I'm concerned Western countries should let people leave and join ISIS and allow them to take the majority of their wealth with them, too.

Give them their opportunity to declare their allegiance to ISIS for safe passage with the condition that they renounce their citizenship and let them take the majority of their wealth with them.

Any person found to be trying to leave their home country to join ISIS without following this path should then be tried for treason and executed.

ISIS would get so paranoid by the free flowing of people going there with our permission that they'll screw it up by treating almost everyone as a spy.

Plus it'll mean we can fight them over there rather than fight them here.

Yes Tony.

Thanks LM.

This is in complete violation of our First Amendment which neither the Brits or SA's have that is in effect.

Americans keep forgetting about the miracle that this Limited Constitutional Republic that is also the number one economic and military power on the planet and is clinging to individual rights, as well as our guns and bibles according to the marxist in the White House

A...

I completely agree, except for the Marxist thing.

-- LM, have you been lurking all this time? If not, please bring us to date on your journey. Last time we met you were still feeling your way to a society and work that reflected your religious values. What's up? You certainly added a human face to The Muslim that some of us discuss. I hope you stick around and engage.

I've been on a very interesting journey of discovery.

In 2011 I spent a short amount of time fighting pirates on the Red Sea.

In 2012 I moved to the USA, got married to an amazing woman and am currently a consultant in the security field specializing in Islamic Extremism. I live an hour away from Thomas Jefferson's home, Monticello and visit often to reflect on how amazing this man and his compatriots were, to risk their lives, wealth and honor to set up what is the greatest experiment in government in the history of the earth.

I intend to enlist in the military soon and I hope to spend the rest of my life supporting and defending the US Constitution and protecting our way of life against our enemies like ISIS and Al Qaeda etc. In doing so I hope to set an example to inspire other Muslims and especially my own progeny (when I have them) to devote their life in service to protect this nation.

Thank you for your past service and welcome aboard citizen.

I am very happy for you and your wife.

I swear LM, if you turn out to be a mole, or a lone wolf, I will find a way back from the other side and haunt you!!! lol

As-salamu alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuhu wa maghfiratuhu(Arabic

A...

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The UK got itself in the pickle with equivocations and compromises, which leads to further compromises. Try to stop incitement, you try to stop people's thoughts. The best recourse is let the madmen speak and laugh at them. But first declare ISIS an enemy of the State, and so whichever UK citizen is "incited" or "radicalized" to go and join them can be arrested as traitor when he returns. (If he returns).

As far as I'm concerned Western countries should let people leave and join ISIS and allow them to take the majority of their wealth with them, too.

Give them their opportunity to declare their allegiance to ISIS for safe passage with the condition that they renounce their citizenship and let them take the majority of their wealth with them.

Any person found to be trying to leave their home country to join ISIS without following this path should then be tried for treason and executed.

ISIS would get so paranoid by the free flowing of people going there with our permission that they'll screw it up by treating almost everyone as a spy.

Plus it'll mean we can fight them over there rather than fight them here.

It's impossible to prove intent in advance, as it would be wrong to prejudge anyone before they commit the deed, solely on what one believes is in their heads. Therefore I advocate grabbing recruits when they come back. Other than that, we seem to be on the same page. However much one loathes a Choudary, subverting freedom of expression in order to prosecute and silence him would be a huge sacrifice, of a high principle - to lowdown garbage. The UK would be a little less free after that, and he and his type could claim a moral victory.

LM, nice to see you check in again, more perspectives are always good.

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It's impossible to prove intent in advance, as it would be wrong to prejudge anyone before they commit the deed, solely on what one believes is in their heads. Therefore I advocate grabbing recruits when they come back. Other than that, we seem to be on the same page. However much one loathes a Choudary, subverting freedom of expression in order to prosecute and silence him would be a huge sacrifice, of a high principle - to lowdown garbage. The UK would be a little less free after that, and he and his type could claim a moral victory.

LM, nice to see you check in again, more perspectives are always good.

I don't believe it is impossible to prove intent at all, the FBI has done a great job of doing it over the past year with several people being caught planning to join ISIS.

I would have absolutely no hesitation in handing out a death penalty to someone who commits treason in such a way when there was already a clear path for them to leave in the first place in an honest way.

Let them leave, take a DNA sample, fingerprints, retinal scans, etc. Make it so they'll be immediately identifiable should they ever try and board a flight to the US or any other Western Country.

Thank you for the welcome back also. It's great to be back.

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Thank you for your past service and welcome aboard citizen.

I am very happy for you and your wife.

I swear LM, if you turn out to be a mole, or a lone wolf, I will find a way back from the other side and haunt you!!! lol

As-salamu alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuhu wa maghfiratuhu(Arabic

A...

Thank you for your well wishes, though I must correct you and state that I have not served yet, I intend to serve in the near future.

Also, as for the statement that I have made bold. I understand it was in jest, but even in jest it is hurtful.

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Thank you for your past service and welcome aboard citizen.

I am very happy for you and your wife.

I swear LM, if you turn out to be a mole, or a lone wolf, I will find a way back from the other side and haunt you!!! lol

As-salamu alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuhu wa maghfiratuhu(Arabic

A...

Thank you for your well wishes, though I must correct you and state that I have not served yet, I intend to serve in the near future.

Also, as for the statement that I have made bold. I understand it was in jest, but even in jest it is hurtful.

LM:

My apologies to you, however, we have gotten so self destructively foolish that it is a possibility.

I grew up with WWII folks as my friends parents during the 1950's and my family was very political.

We knew from Czechs, Poles, Cubans and numerous other folks that fled tyranny that a free citizenry is an alert citizenry.

Hell we had the damn Rosenburgs who were on the Soviet payroll.

A...

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LM:

My apologies to you, however, we have gotten so self destructively foolish that it is a possibility.

I grew up with WWII folks as my friends parents during the 1950's and my family was very political.

We knew from Czechs, Poles, Cubans and numerous other folks that fled tyranny that a free citizenry is an alert citizenry.

Hell we had the damn Rosenburgs who were on the Soviet payroll.

A...

What is still a possibility?

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LM:

My apologies to you, however, we have gotten so self destructively foolish that it is a possibility.

I grew up with WWII folks as my friends parents during the 1950's and my family was very political.

We knew from Czechs, Poles, Cubans and numerous other folks that fled tyranny that a free citizenry is an alert citizenry.

Hell we had the damn Rosenburgs who were on the Soviet payroll.

A...

What is still a possibility?

The possibility that any American could be working against the country.

It is, as you know, a very complicated planet populated by diverse economic, geographic, political, racial and religious forces.

A...

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The possibility that any American could be working against the country.

It is, as you know, a very complicated planet populated by diverse economic, geographic, political, racial and religious forces.

A...

Sigh, you should have just stopped at the apology.

The hurtful part was your suggestion that I personally could be a lone wolf or a mole.

Just like if I were to suggest that you could be a pedophile?

Sure, it's all possible in the sense of how possibilities exist in the universe, but hearing it hurts. That this would come to someone's mind when you've given no reason for them to believe that you could do such a horrible thing.

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The possibility that any American could be working against the country.

It is, as you know, a very complicated planet populated by diverse economic, geographic, political, racial and religious forces.

A...

Sigh, you should have just stopped at the apology.

The hurtful part was your suggestion that I personally could be a lone wolf or a mole.

Just like if I were to suggest that you could be a pedophile?

Sure, it's all possible in the sense of how possibilities exist in the universe, but hearing it hurts. That this would come to someone's mind when you've given no reason for them to believe that you could do such a horrible thing.

I am cynical, or, if you prefer, jaded.

A cynic has been called a humanist with experience.

This is my problem, not yours LM.

A...

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LM:

Fighting pirates on the Red Sea? Were you on a merchant ships security detail?

A...

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LM:

My apologies to you, however, we have gotten so self destructively foolish that it is a possibility.

I grew up with WWII folks as my friends parents during the 1950's and my family was very political.

We knew from Czechs, Poles, Cubans and numerous other folks that fled tyranny that a free citizenry is an alert citizenry.

Hell we had the damn Rosenburgs who were on the Soviet payroll.

A...

What is still a possibility?

The possibility that any American could be working against the country.

It is, as you know, a very complicated planet populated by diverse economic, geographic, political, racial and religious forces.

A...

I'm working against the country. The United States is two countries. I'm not working against both. You and LM are both trying to embrace the same country. Glad you've discovered you're on the same boat. Which boat? The boat LM wishes to "serve" by enlisting in the military. That's traditional young man immigrant orientation: gratitude and paying back. He's embracing an illusion--as I once did--and are you too or are your eyes wide open or am I mistaken in whole or part?

--Brant

radical--that's who I yam, just add spinach

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I'm working against the country. The United States is two countries. I'm not working against both. You and LM are both trying to embrace the same country. Glad you've discovered you're on the same boat. Which boat? The boat LM wishes to "serve" by enlisting in the military. That's traditional young man immigrant orientation: gratitude and paying back. He's embracing an illusion--as I once did--and are you too or are your eyes wide open or am I mistaken in whole or part?

--Brant

radical--that's who I yam, just add spinach

It's not only about gratitude and paying back. It's more about helping to support and defend a system of government here that is unparalleled anywhere else in the world in terms of the rights it, in principle protects for individuals.

Right now we are under attack by the likes of ISIS. It is not a group with simple ambitions to 'liberate' it's own region, but is instead hell bent on dominating the world and oppressing anyone that comes under the yolk of its tentacles. They must be stopped.

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LM:

How would you direct stopping them, since you know the Ummah better than any of us.

What three actions should we first take to stop ISIS?

A...

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I'm working against the country. The United States is two countries. I'm not working against both. You and LM are both trying to embrace the same country. Glad you've discovered you're on the same boat. Which boat? The boat LM wishes to "serve" by enlisting in the military. That's traditional young man immigrant orientation: gratitude and paying back. He's embracing an illusion--as I once did--and are you too or are your eyes wide open or am I mistaken in whole or part?

--Brant

radical--that's who I yam, just add spinach

It's not only about gratitude and paying back. It's more about helping to support and defend a system of government here that is unparalleled anywhere else in the world in terms of the rights it, in principle protects for individuals.

Right now we are under attack by the likes of ISIS. It is not a group with simple ambitions to 'liberate' it's own region, but is instead hell bent on dominating the world and oppressing anyone that comes under the yolk of its tentacles. They must be stopped.

ISIS? That's easy. Hitler? That was hard. Anyway, Adam has asked you a question*.

Please note, however, that a system of government doesn't necessarily mean the government occupying the system. Good old SOB-take-him-out-with-a-stick-which-we-did Hitler demonstrated that perfectly well in 1933.

--Brant

*hint, ISIS is not ISIS; ISIS is the Caliphate--the Caliphate attracts the warriors, not ISIS as such for ISIS is like an old man with a lot of money--the Caliphate--looking for a woman and whore women get all over him--for the money (The Muslim religion is the old man)

used to be a whore for my country myself--an almost killed whore

looking for a woman--with a lot of money (I'm thoroughly corrupted or corruptible)--beauty optional (see vid below, never mind the gender mix up)

https://youtu.be/WeNBspJGVko

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ISIS? That's easy. Hitler? That was hard. Anyway, Adam has asked you a question*.

Please note, however, that a system of government doesn't necessarily mean the government occupying the system. Good old SOB-take-him-out-with-a-stick-which-we-did Hitler demonstrated that perfectly well in 1933.

--Brant

*hint, ISIS is not ISIS; ISIS is the Caliphate--the Caliphate attracts the warriors, not ISIS as such for ISIS is like an old man with a lot of money--the Caliphate--looking for a woman and whore women get all over him--for the money (The Muslim religion is the old man)

used to be a whore for my country myself--an almost killed whore

looking for a woman--with a lot of money (I'm thoroughly corrupted or corruptible)--beauty optional (see vid below, never mind the gender mix up)

https://youtu.be/WeNBspJGVko

I'm aware of the difference between a system of government and the government of the day.

ISIS is not a caliphate, they are a group of extremists trying to gain legitimacy by declaring a caliphate and the vast majority of the Muslim world doesn't at all recognize their caliphate, nor the leadership of Al-Baghdadi.

With regards to Adam's question, it was a Cable Ship, only a short job of about 30 days but it was a great experience.

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Caliphate is in the mind and on the ground. A would be Caliphate is no difference. It is to the idea on the ground that their fighters repair. It is de facto if not de jure. If there is a contradicting classical model it makes no difference and it makes even less of a difference what the rest of the Muslin world thinks--which doesn't think anyway--what matters is what some young Muslims, mostly male, think. Now, if it's the Islamic State, then it's that to which they are going to. It's the idea of a country reflecting shared values. It then becomes a semantical argument: Islamic state or caliphate or an admixture.

As for Adam's questions, you answered one.

--Brant

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