If you ever decided to leave the USA, where would you go?

[sbeaulieu]

What "would be the outcome in the void of quickly eliminating" <fill-in-the-blank> (for any form of coercion you feel is especially heinous)?

Dan,

You can't apply this across the board to all scenarios. They each deserve special attention as their impact is felt dynamically. Case in point, while rape is heinous, the single act is a small pebble in the pond. It affects the victim, their family and friends (an instills fear in the local community). Taxation affects every American. We'll call that the meteor obliterating the pond.

The question still stands. What would be the outcome if tomorrow taxation was abolished?

~ Shane

Edited April 23, 2010 by sbeaulieu

[Brant Gaede]

If one views taxation as paying for services, it is not coercion though collecting taxes would be if the services rendered were not as specified.

And if one views a milk shake as water, it is not fattening.

I would rather do without many governmental "services," such as those protecting me from pot smokers and other harmless druggies. How do I cancel those services, exactly? If I want to cancel my television cable service, I can call Comcast. Who can I call in the government? Is there an 800 number?

Ghs

1-866-666-6666

--Brant

[Brant Gaede]

What "would be the outcome in the void of quickly eliminating" <fill-in-the-blank> (for any form of coercion you feel is especially heinous)?

Dan,

You can't apply this across the board to all scenarios. They each deserve special attention as their impact is felt dynamically. Case in point, while rape is heinous, the single act is a small pebble in the pond. It affects the victim, their family and friends (an instills fear in the local community). Taxation affects every American. We'll call that the meteor obliterating the pond.

The question still stands. What would be the outcome if tomorrow taxation was abolished?

~ Shane

Hyper-inflationary depression.

--Brant

[George H. Smith]

The question still stands. What would be the outcome if tomorrow taxation was abolished?

Freedom?

Ghs

[George H. Smith]

If one views taxation as paying for services, it is not coercion though collecting taxes would be if the services rendered were not as specified.

And if one views a milk shake as water, it is not fattening.

I would rather do without many governmental "services," such as those protecting me from pot smokers and other harmless druggies. How do I cancel those services, exactly? If I want to cancel my television cable service, I can call Comcast. Who can I call in the government? Is there an 800 number?

Ghs

1-866-666-6666

--Brant

Thanks, Brant.

I called the number and was given two options:

If you want to cancel your implied contract with the United States Government, press 1.

If you want to report someone who would like to cancel his implied contract with the United States Government, press 2.

I thought the best thing to do was to hang up.

Ghs

[Martin Radwin]

If one views taxation as paying for services, it is not coercion though collecting taxes would be if the services rendered were not as specified.

And if one views a milk shake as water, it is not fattening.

I would rather do without many governmental "services," such as those protecting me from pot smokers and other harmless druggies. How do I cancel those services, exactly? If I want to cancel my television cable service, I can call Comcast. Who can I call in the government? Is there an 800 number?

Ghs

1-866-666-6666

--Brant

Thanks, Brant.

I called the number and was given two options:

If you want to cancel your implied contract with the United States Government, press 1.

If you want to report someone who would like to cancel his implied contract with the United States Government, press 2.

I thought the best thing to do was to hang up.

Ghs

Too late. I just called 1-866-666-6666, pressed 2, and gave them your name. They promised me a hefty reward. I'm not sure what's going to happen to you ...

Martin

[George H. Smith]

Thanks, Brant.

I called the number and was given two options:

If you want to cancel your implied contract with the United States Government, press 1.

If you want to report someone who would like to cancel his implied contract with the United States Government, press 2.

I thought the best thing to do was to hang up.

Ghs

Too late. I just called 1-866-666-6666, pressed 2, and gave them your name. They promised me a hefty reward. I'm not sure what's going to happen to you ...

Martin

I don't think anything will happen to me, because....Hold on...Two guys in black suits just showed up at my front door, I need to see what they want, so I will continue this later. (There's also a helicopter hovering over my place. Strange....)

Ghs

[George H. Smith]

Thanks, Brant.

I called the number and was given two options:

If you want to cancel your implied contract with the United States Government, press 1.

If you want to report someone who would like to cancel his implied contract with the United States Government, press 2.

I thought the best thing to do was to hang up.

Ghs

Too late. I just called 1-866-666-6666, pressed 2, and gave them your name. They promised me a hefty reward. I'm not sure what's going to happen to you ...

Martin

I don't think anything will happen to me, because....Hold on...Two guys in black suits just showed up at my front door, I need to see what they want, so I will continue this later. (There's also a helicopter hovering over my place. Strange....)

Ghs

I just had a pleasant conversation with those two men who knocked on my door. They were from a department of the U.S. Government that I had never heard of before: Federal Unspecified Contract Keepers Emergency Resource Squad.

These F.U.C.K.E.R.S. said they were paying me a friendly visit to remind me of my contract with the United States Government. When I asked, "What contract?" they said it was the contract that I implicitly signed when I was born.

When I expressed confusion, explaining that I had no idea what the terms of this contract are, they said it was very simple:

(1) I am obligated to do whatever the government tells me to do.

(2) The contract expires only when I do.

(3) I am subject to a "substantial penalty" for early termination.

When I asked to see a copy of this contract, the gentlemen laughed, and one of them said: "Sir, if there were a written copy, it wouldn't be an implied contract, now would it?"

They asked if I had any more questions. I said, "Yes, who determined the conditions of this contract?"

They laughed again. "Not you, that's for sure," one of them said.

Ghs

[Rich Engle]

The country was certainly in better shape in 1957 than now.

Really? State your premises.

[Martin Radwin]

Thanks, Brant.

I called the number and was given two options:

If you want to cancel your implied contract with the United States Government, press 1.

If you want to report someone who would like to cancel his implied contract with the United States Government, press 2.

I thought the best thing to do was to hang up.

Ghs

Too late. I just called 1-866-666-6666, pressed 2, and gave them your name. They promised me a hefty reward. I'm not sure what's going to happen to you ...

Martin

I don't think anything will happen to me, because....Hold on...Two guys in black suits just showed up at my front door, I need to see what they want, so I will continue this later. (There's also a helicopter hovering over my place. Strange....)

Ghs

I just had a pleasant conversation with those two men who knocked on my door. They were from a department of the U.S. Government that I had never heard of before: Federal Unspecified Contract Keepers Emergency Resource Squad.

These F.U.C.K.E.R.S. said they were paying me a friendly visit to remind me of my contract with the United States Government. When I asked, "What contract?" they said it was the contract that I implicitly signed when I was born.

When I expressed confusion, explaining that I had no idea what the terms of this contract are, they said it was very simple:

(1) I am obligated to do whatever the government tells me to do.

(2) The contract expires only when I do.

(3) I am subject to a "substantial penalty" for early termination.

When I asked to see a copy of this contract, the gentlemen laughed, and one of them said: "Sir, if there were a written copy, it wouldn't be an implied contract, now would it?"

They asked if I had any more questions. I said, "Yes, who determined the conditions of this contract?"

They laughed again. "Not you, that's for sure," one of them said.

Ghs

Well, with that attitude, the F.U.C.K.E.R.S. are almost certain to return. Haven't you learned by now that it's not enough to merely obey big brother; you have to love big brother too!

I hope they remember to send me my check. I think I could make a good living doing this.

Martin

[Peter]

Chris Baker wrote:

Basically, what we have in this country, as in most countries, is a state of anarchy for the ruling class and "law and order" for everyone else.

End quote

Uh, oh. Now you’ve done it, Chris. Thou shalt not speak the unwelcome truth. Was it you who wrote the following?

Sympathy for the Devil: Rock Star Anarchists by Anonymous

Philosophical Anarchists covet the life of a rock star, like The Rolling Stone’s Mick Jagger. He does as he pleases. Mick answers to no one. He may even break the law, but there is always someone else to take the rap, someone else to buy his dope, hire his girls, and cover up his indiscretions. Mick’s blessed ass is always covered. Superstardom and millions of dollars, pesos, euros, and yen insulate him from bothersome Government.

The Philosophical Anarchist will do as he pleases until another anarchist persuades or forces him to stop. But does he really think that he will need to stop? Hell no. In his deluded, adolescent mind, he is Nietzsche’s Superman, big enough and strong enough to prevail over other, lesser men. “The Struggle” and “The Inevitable Triumph” is what he lives for.

Reality does not intrude on the Anarchist’s delusions. All he needs is the collapse of civilization. Or barring that, all he needs is a bankroll to found his Anarchist Territory . . . inside the insidious State!

Is he really asking too much? All the anarchist wants . . . is to be just like Mick.

end quote

Chris, if the anonymous author, writing that article in Rolling Stone, was you, congratulations! It was brilliant!

Semper cogitans fidele,

Peter Taylor

[George H. Smith]

The Philosophical Anarchist will do as he pleases until another anarchist persuades or forces him to stop. But does he really think that he will need to stop? Hell no. In his deluded, adolescent mind, he is Nietzsche’s Superman, big enough and strong enough to prevail over other, lesser men. “The Struggle” and “The Inevitable Triumph” is what he lives for.

Is this how you would act if you found yourself in a society without a government? If so, people had better stay away from you, for you are one of those breasts of prey that Locke talks about in his Second Treatise.

But if this is not how you would act -- if, without a government to restrain you, you still would not go around exploiting and killing others for your own supposed benefit -- then why do you suppose that you are so "special" in this regard? Are you somehow morally superior to everyone else on the planet?

As Rand might say, Speak for yourself, Brother.

Ghs

[9thdoctor]

you are one of those breasts of prey that Locke talks about in his Second Treatise.

Damn, I knew I should have gotten the illustrated edition!

Now, was that a mistake or were you just trying to call Peter a boob?

[George H. Smith]

you are one of those breasts of prey that Locke talks about in his Second Treatise.

Damn, I knew I should have gotten the illustrated edition!

Now, was that a mistake or were you just trying to call Peter a boob?

I'm afraid that this was just one of those unintentionally funny blunders. I probably had something else on my mind, so call it a classic Freudian slip.

The only breast of prey that I've ever seen is the one in Woody Allen's early movie "Everything You Always Wanted To Know About Sex But Were Afraid to Ask."

Ghs

[George H. Smith]

you are one of those breasts of prey that Locke talks about in his Second Treatise.

Damn, I knew I should have gotten the illustrated edition!

Now, was that a mistake or were you just trying to call Peter a boob?

Your bouncing babe icon looks like a bald stripper with an acute case of hepatitis.

Ghs

[Peter]

They have a TV show about "breasts of prey," starring Courtney Cox called "Cougars."

Where were these manipulative exploiters when I was 14?

Peter Taylor

[9thdoctor]

Your bouncing babe icon looks like a bald stripper with an acute case of hepatitis.

I never noticed that she was bald, but then again maybe she has a ponytail. More to the point, with jugs like those who would notice anything else?

On the off-chance someone hasn’t seen the Woody Allen clip:

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="

name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="

type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object> <object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-RKFewOetc&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param'>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-RKFewOetc&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-RKFewOetc&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

Also the next scene, the best part of the movie.

Good luck getting this thread back on track.

[George H. Smith]

Your bouncing babe icon looks like a bald stripper with an acute case of hepatitis.

I never noticed that she was bald, but then again maybe she has a ponytail. More to the point, with jugs like those who would notice anything else?

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but those aren't real breasts. That's a drawing. Been a while, has it?

I figured out the reason for my earlier blooper. I need to find another background picture for my Desktop.

Good luck getting this thread back on track.

If I ever decided to leave the USA, I would go anywhere if I had a beautiful woman with me.

How's that?

Ghs

[Brant Gaede]

If I ever decided to leave the USA, I would go anywhere if I had a beautiful woman with me.

How's that?

You can save her airfare by going to Russia where beautiful women are waiting.

--Brant

[George H. Smith]

They have a TV show about "breasts of prey," starring Courtney Cox called "Cougars."

Where were these manipulative exploiters when I was 14?

Peter Taylor

They were probably having sex with anarchists. "I'm an anarchist" is a much better approach than "I believe in limited government."

Ghs

[Peter]

Ghs (pronounced in the John Kerry way, Genghis Khan) wrote:

As Rand might say, Speak for yourself, Brother.

End quote

You hypocrites aren’t going to wiggle out of this one. I’ve got you pegged, haven’t I, you Nietzscheans? Isn’t this topic about where you malcontents would go? Is there no place better for you, than the United States of America?

OH! So, this is the best place for you. Then why don’t you all move to one of the freer states, like Wyoming or Nevada? Why don’t you start your own out of the way commune where you can do as much good or harm to each other as you want without that meddlesome Government interfering with your *will*?

There have been precedents. The Reverend Jim Jones. That Wacko in Waco. Hippie communes of every stripe. The Polygamist Mormons. Charles Manson. Militia movements. But these *willful people* are usually in freer, out of the way spots, except for that prime example of Anarchy called the Mafia.

George wrote:

If I ever decided to leave the USA, I would go anywhere if I had a beautiful woman with me.

End quote

Gee, Annie Archy, get your gun and be off somewhere. Go shoot a bear. Wear a coonskin cap. Defend your Alamo. But you know, no women will go with you , George. Is that big bachelor party still sounding OK. To have a beautiful woman with you, George, you will need to have some way to fool her into coming.

I gave you a psychological “out”, and a way to save face when I recently had this idea: as a first step but not as a last stop, begin the process to redistribute Government’s duties and start by electing a Tea Party President and a Tea Party Congress.

If the Anti-Federalist tradition of the Tea Parties is followed at the Federal level, then why not extend that to the state, county and city levels, where the Tea Parties started?

The unifying principle on a national level is a weaker US Constitution (that is stronger in protecting individual rights, pick up where Judge Narragansett left off in Atlas Shrugged) but a minimal government is still in existence to guarantee individual rights. Additional federal jurisdictions would be National Defense, a weakened interstate commerce regulatory ability, and then we could abolish a bunch of cabinet seats, and regulations.

Now isn’t it more reasonable and prudent to work for the thing more likely to occur, as long is it is along your ideal path to Anarchic Utopia? I know, you will say my proposal is about nothing. Fatal flaw, taxation is coercion, yadda yadda yadda.

But, your anarchic nothingness will only be accomplished when you die. Humanitarian that I am, I do not want that to happen. In the mean time you could work for a less meddlesome Government.

Oh, the slings and arrows of Objectivist Yahoos is so hard to take! Sniff. Take the smart way out. Become sane. Renounce the Religion of Anarchy. It does you no good.

Semper cogitans fidele,

Peter Taylor

[9thdoctor]

If I ever decided to leave the USA, I would go anywhere if I had a beautiful woman with me.

Aww, how romantic! I’d add in weather, cuisine, and whether a new language needs to be learned. I don’t think enough variables are defined here, is it where would you go if you had to build a new career, starting from nothing, or if you won the latest Powerball jackpot, or something in between? The answer will vary accordingly.

[George H. Smith]

If I ever decided to leave the USA, I would go anywhere if I had a beautiful woman with me.

Aww, how romantic! I’d add in weather, cuisine, and whether a new language needs to be learned. I don’t think enough variables are defined here, is it where would you go if you had to build a new career, starting from nothing, or if you won the latest Powerball jackpot, or something in between? The answer will vary accordingly.

You are leaving out a crucial variable: age. I am 61. I don't know how many "good" years I have left, and that uncertainty can narrow one's focus. Give me a couple years with a beautiful woman, and I will die happy. Almost everything else is secondary.

I am kidding around here, obviously, but there is truth in what I said about a different focus in one's later years. Age can play a huge role in how one views the world and plans one's life. Looking forward to most of your life is much different than looking back at most of it.

But I digress yet again.

Btw, has age ever been discussed on OL? I thought maybe there is a thread where we older types can go and share some senior moments and bitch about how no one really understood or appeciated us. 8-)

Ghs

[George H. Smith]

To have a beautiful woman with you, George, you will need to have some way to fool her into coming.

I know a number of ways to fool a woman into coming.

You know, Peter, you really make this way too easy for me.

Ghs

[George H. Smith]

You hypocrites aren’t going to wiggle out of this one. I’ve got you pegged, haven’t I, you Nietzscheans?

Yup, you sure have, you Daffy Duckian.

I do like Nietzsche's comment that the State is the "coldest of all cold monsters" that "bites with stolen teeth" -- so if that makes me Nietzschean, so be it.

Normally, there is duck season and there is rabbit season. But you are truly a man for all seasons.

Ghs