The Seventh No Name Calling Week Begins

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

See which of you four or five enormously intelligent dudes...

Phil,

Wait a minute!

You think I am "enormously intelligent"?

Truly?

Dayaamm!

That changes everything.

(pulling up a chair and leaning in closer)

Now what were you saying exactly?

I'm all ears...

Michael

[Philip Coates]

Very funny, Michael

....You didn't pick up the sarcasm...?

Edited February 1, 2010 by Philip Coates

[Peter]

Adam, I am beginning to think you deliberately misconstrue some things for reasons unknown.

You wrote:

Perhaps I did flame him, if so, make your case dude.

end quote

The case was, you started a thread about “not bullying,” and then to my eyes you immediately bullied someone. In fact, you seemed to go ballistic over an accurate, if minor, assessment of Philip’s about some people’s posts. In was as if in one breath you metaphorically said, Peter I can never thank you enough, for saving my life - you rotten SOB.

Very incongruous. Of course I thought there might be past animosity between you and Philip, but I have never known him to get under anyone’s skin to any degree. He writes fine erudite letters, and I posted a sampling because of my mystification.

One respondent has mentioned Philip prefers responses with no personal animosity, and that he will complain if you are not civil, which is not exactly a bad thing.

For example, showing animosity towards me, you wrote:

“Petey boy . . . “

Now, to me that is not a good way to refer to someone. It is condescending, but I would not take great offense. Philip might. Is that the sort of complaint he had against you?

You wrote:

Furthermore, your good bud Ayn was seriously influenced by Nietzsche, who had some fascinating ideas about the nature of man.

end quote

You don’t seem to appreciate Rand. I am glad you did not arrive at your archaic, anarchic political theory from reading her. By referring to her as my “good bud Ayn,” I can hear the sarcasm in your voice and see the sneer on your face. Perhaps I am clairvoyant too.

I wrote that Anarchists are by their nature *willful.* That is my personal assessment and I will stand by that. Most of them have reminded me of spoiled mama’s boys all grown up physically, but they demand that their irrational whims be accepted. They are usually narcissistic, and antagonistic, which seems to fit you to a “T.” Oh, and by the way, Adam, they are usually bullies.

You wrote:

You see this is an educational thread because of the miss education that is being perpetrated on the convict children who are forced by the state . . . My point in starting this thread is that this is precisely the wrong way to teach about bullying, what it is and how to effectively deal with a bully.

end quote

Are you saying that coming to a knife fight with a gun is the way to end bullying? A well trained teacher in the classroom and on the playground can spot and stop bullying. We are finally getting wise about online bullying.

What they heck are you talking about, when you call kids, Convicts? Home schooling is still legal, though I think vouchers are a good compromise also, and better than mandatory public education. I also want the schools to improve.

You wrote:

I named in years ago with the domestic violence bullshit. It was bullying by being bullied. In fact, the victim became the victimizer. Temporary Orders of Protection, issued in absencia became swords rather than shields.

end quote

I don’t get it. I thought you were straight. Did someone like Philip put out a restraining order against you, for knocking him around?

You wrote:

. . . your condemnatory Phillian condescension and basic disrespect for the other persons statements [PC version "feelings"] is very "coplike" in nature.

end quote

I was a cop a long time ago, but it has shaped my thinking. I still root for the good guys. Because of my young age and idealistic character, the OCPD put me in charge of the jail; specifically, juveniles and women. I can’t wait to hear what you will make of that. No one doubted they would be safe with me, and they were. And none escaped. The fact that my great uncle was the Assistant Chief didn’t hurt in my promotion. Since then I have done much more, in other careers.

I thought about sending this offlist, but you might construe that as threatening. I misunderstood you when you cited an anti-bullying campaign. I thought you were against bullying, but apparently an anarchist’s best defense is a good offense, so I will resend this to the same thread.

Adam wrote:

Finally, I have had the "feeling" that you have a set of underlying "pre-judgments" of classes of folks here in the United States.

End quote

Of course I do. What Fairyland do you live in? I wrote that Teacher Y’s class could be loaded with lesser achievers and Spanish speaking kids, and this would cause the kid’s, and the teacher’s evaluations to go down. They would.

Adam wrote:

Is there, in your mind, an equal sign between lesser achievers and "Spanish speaking kids"? What about Vietnamese speaking kids? Or Indian speaking kids? Shall I continue?

end quote

Of course not. Listing all the immigrants who cannot fluently speak English is not necessary. Statistics are real mathematical evaluations but they are not an equality sign. Generally, kids who don’t speak or read English at a certain grade level, let alone fluently, are going to do worse in the classroom. Kids who are special needs generally do worse in the classroom. There are mainstreamed kids, right now, who require one adult in attendance at all times, during class, or they will bite another child within a few minutes. One on one. That is unsustainable.

IQ and other tests and are predictors of future success. However, as a former teacher and as an Objectivist, I know rationally and in my gut, that volition and perseverance matter more. I remember reading about an infant savant who later became a janitor, and conversely we all know stories of the guy who beat all the odds, and succeeded in life.

Where is all your hatred coming from Adam? I say this not sarcastically, Want to talk about it some more? I am not the most sympathetic person in the world, but I will listen.

Peter

[Peter]

Michael Stuart Kelly wrote about Philip's letter:

You think I am "enormously intelligent"?

Truly?

Dayaamm!

end quote

I also think you are enormously intelligent. It is obvious because I agree with everything I have ever read that you said. At first I thought it was an anomoly, but now I am sure you may be the smartest person I have ever known, and that was not said sarcastically. Notice, no smiley face.

Peter

[9thdoctor]

So Flouncy Phil is back in earnest! And he just luuuves to pounce!

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Based on his contributions, however, I think he’s in fact the love child of Rabbit and Owl.

C’mon buddy, head back over to Great Literature and tell us what you were reading during your sabbatical.

http://www.objectivistliving.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=7596&pid=86802&st=380entry86802

[Selene]

Adam, I am beginning to think you deliberately misconstrue some things for reasons unknown.

You wrote:

Perhaps I did flame him, if so, make your case dude.

end quote

The case was, you started a thread about "not bullying," and then to my eyes you immediately bullied someone. In fact, you seemed to go ballistic over an accurate, if minor, assessment of Philip's about some people's posts. In was as if in one breath you metaphorically said, Peter I can never thank you enough, for saving my life - you rotten SOB.

Very incongruous. Of course I thought there might be past animosity between you and Philip, but I have never known him to get under anyone's skin to any degree. He writes fine erudite letters, and I posted a sampling because of my mystification.

One respondent has mentioned Philip prefers responses with no personal animosity, and that he will complain if you are not civil, which is not exactly a bad thing.

For example, showing animosity towards me, you wrote:

"Petey boy . . . "

Now, to me that is not a good way to refer to someone. It is condescending, but I would not take great offense. Philip might. Is that the sort of complaint he had against you?

You wrote:

Furthermore, your good bud Ayn was seriously influenced by Nietzsche, who had some fascinating ideas about the nature of man.

end quote

You don't seem to appreciate Rand. I am glad you did not arrive at your archaic, anarchic political theory from reading her. By referring to her as my "good bud Ayn," I can hear the sarcasm in your voice and see the sneer on your face. Perhaps I am clairvoyant too.

I wrote that Anarchists are by their nature *willful.* That is my personal assessment and I will stand by that. Most of them have reminded me of spoiled mama's boys all grown up physically, but they demand that their irrational whims be accepted. They are usually narcissistic, and antagonistic, which seems to fit you to a "T." Oh, and by the way, Adam, they are usually bullies.

You wrote:

You see this is an educational thread because of the miss education that is being perpetrated on the convict children who are forced by the state . . . My point in starting this thread is that this is precisely the wrong way to teach about bullying, what it is and how to effectively deal with a bully.

end quote

Are you saying that coming to a knife fight with a gun is the way to end bullying? A well trained teacher in the classroom and on the playground can spot and stop bullying. We are finally getting wise about online bullying.

What they heck are you talking about, when you call kids, Convicts? Home schooling is still legal, though I think vouchers are a good compromise also, and better than mandatory public education. I also want the schools to improve.

You wrote:

I named in years ago with the domestic violence bullshit. It was bullying by being bullied. In fact, the victim became the victimizer. Temporary Orders of Protection, issued in absencia became swords rather than shields.

end quote

I don't get it. I thought you were straight. Did someone like Philip put out a restraining order against you, for knocking him around?

You wrote:

. . . your condemnatory Phillian condescension and basic disrespect for the other persons statements [PC version "feelings"] is very "coplike" in nature.

end quote

I was a cop a long time ago, but it has shaped my thinking. I still root for the good guys. Because of my young age and idealistic character, the OCPD put me in charge of the jail; specifically, juveniles and women. I can't wait to hear what you will make of that. No one doubted they would be safe with me, and they were. And none escaped. The fact that my great uncle was the Assistant Chief didn't hurt in my promotion. Since then I have done much more, in other careers.

I thought about sending this offlist, but you might construe that as threatening. I misunderstood you when you cited an anti-bullying campaign. I thought you were against bullying, but apparently an anarchist's best defense is a good offense, so I will resend this to the same thread.

Adam wrote:

Finally, I have had the "feeling" that you have a set of underlying "pre-judgments" of classes of folks here in the United States.

End quote

Of course I do. What Fairyland do you live in? I wrote that Teacher Y's class could be loaded with lesser achievers and Spanish speaking kids, and this would cause the kid's, and the teacher's evaluations to go down. They would.

Adam wrote:

Is there, in your mind, an equal sign between lesser achievers and "Spanish speaking kids"? What about Vietnamese speaking kids? Or Indian speaking kids? Shall I continue?

end quote

Of course not. Listing all the immigrants who cannot fluently speak English is not necessary. Statistics are real mathematical evaluations but they are not an equality sign. Generally, kids who don't speak or read English at a certain grade level, let alone fluently, are going to do worse in the classroom. Kids who are special needs generally do worse in the classroom. There are mainstreamed kids, right now, who require one adult in attendance at all times, during class, or they will bite another child within a few minutes. One on one. That is unsustainable.

IQ and other tests and are predictors of future success. However, as a former teacher and as an Objectivist, I know rationally and in my gut, that volition and perseverance matter more. I remember reading about an infant savant who later became a janitor, and conversely we all know stories of the guy who beat all the odds, and succeeded in life.

Where is all your hatred coming from Adam? I say this not sarcastically, Want to talk about it some more? I am not the most sympathetic person in the world, but I will listen.

Peter

Peter:

I apologize. I have just been f_ _ _ _ _ _ with you. I read posts/profiles very carefully, I know you were a cop, that is why the cop like crack, you know similar to the way you lumped Italians as criminals.

But I can see you are not malicious, just clueless in certain ways.

As to your "Objectivist" mantel, I would highly suggest you read Burns' book. You just do not have a clue as to what the NY Objectivists did in politics. I went to NBI in 1963-1964. As we progressed through Rand and into politics we became serious politically. Unfortunately, Ayn just froze emotionally and intellectually in the 60's.

The connection of Ayn's ideas and libertarianism and mini anarchism and anarcho capitalism are clear, bright and direct. You do not know of what you speak when you talk about the politics that went on in the try state area.

I hate to ever say this, but I "saw Ayn in the flesh', at NBI, in various places and appearances in the 60's, so do me a favor do not even attempt to "out - Objectivist" me.

I will be absolutely prim and proper when I respond to any of your more concise posts.

Adam

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

I also think you are enormously intelligent. It is obvious because I agree with everything I have ever read that you said. At first I thought it was an anomoly, but now I am sure you may be the smartest person I have ever known, and that was not said sarcastically. Notice, no smiley face.

Peter,

Talk about a mind-fuck!

Don't get me wrong. I'm enormously flattered you think this.

A part of me is extremely vulnerable to flattery and it's booming all around in my head yelling, "Bring it on, brother. I'm soaking this stuff up. All of it!"

But I'm a recovered alcoholic and drug addict. I have to lower that booming for my own survival. So I look for other things.

I think I read you're a cop? I used to be a bandit.

(I was trying to find the noble crook at one time in my life. I think I was pursuing Rand's rebel outlaw hero. I didn't find him in real life, though. All I found were scumbags of two types: those who would sell their mothers for a cheap price and deliver her, and those who would sell their mothers for a cheap price and not deliver her. And there were a few like me who thought they were being cool, but had no business hanging around that corner of the city. Those types usually got hurt. I know I did. I got sick and tired of being busted up and sewn back together. Physical therapy sucks.)

Anyway, you said we think alike...

(scratching head...)

There's a message there somewhere...

Michael

[Selene]

my pleasure

[Peter]

I had mentioned that I had yet to find any disagreement in anything MSK had written and that proved how smart he was.

He replied:

Don't get me wrong. I'm enormously flattered you think this . . . A part of me is extremely vulnerable to flattery and it's booming all around in my head yelling, "Bring it on, brother. I'm soaking this stuff up. All of it!"

End quote

And then the next thing of yours that I read, could use some tweaking.

You wrote:

I don't even mind if I act altruistically once in a while. It often makes me feel good to help others and I don't mind saying that I consider it to be a virtue when I do. According to Objectivism, that would be morally imperfect.

End quote

The word “altruistically,” should be “benevolently.” If you change the word in the above it could be correctly stated as:

I don't even mind if I act BENEVOLENTLY once in a while. It often makes me feel good to help others and I don't mind saying that I consider it to be a virtue when I do. According to Objectivism, that IS JUST FINE.

Sorry, Michael. Now you are merely brilliant, but not perfect.

A bandit? You sound like my Dad. He was also rehabilitated. 8 -)

Peter

[Selene]

 

Quote

After the chalk markings started to appear, and pictures began appearing on The Tab, student organizations offered counselling to anyone who may have been impacted by what they had seen. 

But some were left fearing for their own safety. 

Paula Camila Alarcon told The Daily Beast: 'I legitimately feared for my life. I thought we were having a KKK rally on campus,'

Another student reportedly said they thought there would be a mass shooting on campus. 

The Black Student Alliance at Emory University wrote on Facebook: 'We, the Black Student Alliance at Emory University stand in solidarity with the Black and Brown students at Emory, against the intimidation, lies, and deeply rooted racism that people of color continue to face--on their campus, nationwide, and globally. ‪#‎1969not1836‬ ‪#‎BlackBrownAndHere‬'

'If you'd like to stand in solidarity with us, please use this as your status: 'I, a [identity] from [college/university/state/country], stand in solidarity with the Black and Brown students at Emory, against the intimidation, lies, and deeply rooted racism that people of color continue to face--on their campus, nationwide, and globally. #1969not1836 #BlackBrownAndHere.'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3506491/Emory-president-Students-scared-Trump-2016-chalk-signs.html#ixzz43qSgJI2X
 

Now clearly, the last seven (7) years of the No Name Calling Campaign, these students were ready to respond to this bullying name calling candidate...

Quote

Emory's student newspaper, The Wheel, said Wagner outlined four steps that administrators plan to take in order to address the issues raised by the protesters.

They reported that the students this week chanted, 'You are not listening! Come speak to us, we are in pain!' shortly before Wagner agreed to meet with them. 

In a campus-wide email, he proposed 'immediate refinements to certain policies and procedural deficiencies' that he hoped would improve diversity.

He wrote that he wanted to bring in 'regular and structured opportunities for difficult dialogues; a formal process to institutionalize identification.

Wagner also said there was a need to address 'social justice opportunities' and commitment to an annual retreat to renew [their] efforts.'

Wagner added that the Freedom of Expression Committee is meeting to address whether the person or people responsible for the chalking were in compliance with Emory's policy. 

The damage done is frightening...

Quote

The student newspaper's editor, Zak Hudak, posted an editorial addressing what had happened.

He wrote: I do not take lightly the fears and pains of those students who felt victimized by the 'Trump 2016' chalkings around campus, and I try my best to support oppressed groups on campus. 

'The duty of a newspaper to give a voice to the voiceless surpasses that of echoing those in power. I acknowledge again that Donald Trump is unlike any recent candidate who has lasted to this stage of a presidential election and that, for many Emory students, support of him holds a different connotation than support for Hillary Clinton or John Kasich.

Quite a study...we are doomed...

A...