It's not a feature... it's a bug!!

[Dragonfly]

I general the software for this forum works very well, but there is one thing I don't find satisfying: it's not so easy to see where the new posts are as with the old software. With some skins it's somewhat better visible than with other ones, but none of them is really very clear in that regard. Unfortunately there is more focus on the question whether a thread is a "hot topic", which I find totally uninteresting (just as I never look at those silly "bestseller lists" in book stores).

Now there seems to be a solution: the feature of View New Posts, but that doesn't work well. If I look at this list but don't read the new messages, and I disconnect and connect later again, these messages are no longer displayed as new messages! That's definitely a flaw - a message should be labeled 'new' until you've read it, not just until you've seen the title (after all you can always with one click mark them as "read all" if you don't want to read them all). And there is another problem: as long as some message is displayed in the New Messages window, you can choose the option to view the messages of today, of the last week, of the last 2 weeks etc. But if there are no "new messages", this option is also unavailable! You have to wait until there is a new message before you can use this option again. I don't call that a feature, I call that a bug, and although I like some bugs, this isn't one of them.

[Barbara Branden]

I agree withy Dragonfly that there is a problem with discovering -- and then refinding -- posts and threads one hasn't read. I constantly dicover that I've missed whole threads because they disappeared from the home page too quickly, so I didn't know they ever had appeared. In order to catch up, I have to do a great deal of work -- and, too often, even though I'm willing to do the work, I have no way of knowing that it needs to be done, that is, that I've missed certain threads and need to look for them. I don't run into this diffidculty on other forums. Is there not some way of dealing with it?

Barbara

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

I will try to look into this. For the time being, the color changes on the "folder" icons on the left side of the home page work perfectly for this. They only change color after you have read an item. When they are bright, there is an unread post. When they are washed out, the post has been read. So far this has not failed for me.

I don't know if there is a time limit on this since I visit the board every day. I will check.

There is another cool little thing in this feature, though. I will describe it using my present home page as an example.

1. Right now, on my home page, the "folder" icon to the left of "Objectivist Living Room" is lit up. So I click on "Objectivist Living Room" and a new window opens up.

2. There is the list of threads. The "folder" icon to the left of "The Age of Rand: Imagining an Objectivist Future World" is lit up. But there is more.

3. Between the "folder" icon and the title, "The Age of Rand: Imagining an Objectivist Future World," there is a very small red square with a triangle at the bottom right of it. If you click on that square instead of the thread name, it will take you straight to the post you have not read yet.

Michael

[Philip Coates]

I will try to look into this. For the time being, the color changes on the "folder" icons on the left side of the home page work perfectly for this. They only change color after you have read an item. When they are bright, there is an unread post. When they are washed out, the post has been read. So far this has not failed for me.

I don't know if there is a time limit on this since I visit the board every day. I will check.

There is another cool little thing in this feature, though. I will describe it using my present home page as an example.

1. Right now, on my home page, the "folder" icon to the left of "Objectivist Living Room" is lit up. So I click on "Objectivist Living Room" and a new window opens up.

2. There is the list of threads. The "folder" icon to the left of "The Age of Rand: Imagining an Objectivist Future World" is lit up. But there is more.

3. Between the "folder" icon and the title, "The Age of Rand: Imagining an Objectivist Future World," there is a very small red square with a triangle at the bottom right of it. If you click on that square instead of the thread name, it will take you straight to the post you have not read yet.

Michael

[Philip Coates]

Here is the problem: The proper model for the front page of a discussion website is a newspaper website front page not the dewey decimal system or the library of congress categorization rubric.

Go right now to Washington Post or CS Monitor or the NYT. If you go to the New York Times or any newspaper website, you see on the front page all the New Stuff, layed out. You know exactly what to click on.

On OL you have to burrow down within about 20 different categories and posters don't necessarily stay within the too ponderous, too numerous, too general categories.

I've stopped visiting this site regularly because I can waste fifteen minutes before I find something I want to read ...or a poster whose ideas I respect and like to follow. And then more minutes to find another. Consequently, I go to RoR or SP, even though the thinkers are often more lame than here because I can see **the most recent posts on every subject on the "front page"**.

You -must- do that if you want people to visit your site. We don't have unlimited time and like to visit sites on a range of subjects besides Oism. Keep the "corners" and classification schem if you want but bury it.

....

By the way it just took me several minutes trying to figure out which of the three different buttons that has the word "reply" in it would let me post this reply - which seems to have changed from a month ago.

Keep it simple. Make it intuitive not geeky.

[Jody Gomez]

Good to see that Phil is still a curmudgeon.

Phil, I keed, I keed. I'm just happy to see people still here whom I like. However, if I used whom when I should have used who, and you point that out I'm not liking you so much anymore Phil.

[Philip Coates]

In other words, to make it user-friendly and therefore user-frequented, you have to SCRAP or BURY those top several pages of category crap.

Just show us the most recent posts...and maybe the first line of each like RoR does.

That's it. ((( And remove a few buttons that no one knows how to use - like different reply and other buttons - first line: Delete, Edit, Quote, Reply; second row: Fast Replyt, Add Reply, New Topic, On, Card, PM, Report, Top; third row: (another) Add Reply, More Options (!!!), Close Fast Reply; fourth row: IPB Default Skin, English )))

...this ain't the fuckin' Space Shuttle.

Keep it Simple. This ain't wikipedia, either.

[Philip Coates]

Jody one person's curmudgeon is another person's voice of reason and sanity.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Phil,

We are looking into some of these issues.

The problem is that this program is a proprietary program for which we bought a license. Kat has more computer savvy than I do, but we do not have a "webmaster" yet so to speak who makes these kinds of changes. Just her and me. We need to get into customizing skins and so forth to do what you ask and neither of us knows the code to these things yet.

We go a little slower because we have to.

If you find there is too much scrolling, go to the bottom of the screen and click on Lo-Fi Version.

More coming as Kat and I do it. (But we are doing it.)

Michael

[Dragonfly]

The option View New Posts would meet Phil's objections if it worked properly, i.e. if a post remains marked as "new post" as long as you haven't read it (or marked it as "read" - see also my first post in this thread). I think only a very small change in the software is needed to remedy that, so perhaps that should be given priority. Then you can see with one mouse click (BTW, personally I'd prefer hotkeys, as I hate the mouse, so...) all the new messages at a single glance.

[Philip Coates]

I think I agree with Dragonfly, but would have to see if it's simple and clean.

Sorry to be so intemperate in my last two posts...I had just spent a lot of time wrestling with the site and it had left bite marks on my neck...

:-)

I understand your point, Michael, about wrestling with software you didn't create...

Phil

[Mikee]

Jody,

Great to see you!

Look, I'M a curmudgeon. Phil is a much more complicated sort of beast. I sort of like Phil correcting my grammer if he's so inclined. I sort of, uh, 'missed' most of grades 1 through 12 due to lack of interest so I'm a little vague on those pesky grammer rules. Shit, now's he's going to start charging me.

I agree with Dragonfly. I use the "View new posts" exclusively these days. I click a new post and scroll back to see if there are more I haven't read in that thread if the thread interests me.

[Kat]

I have submitted a support request ticket to Invision to see if there is a way to make viewing unread posts easier. This function may require some programming modification and hopefully it is something we can do ourselves. We will keep you posted.

Kat

[Ross Barlow]

Thanks, Michael, for telling us about the extra feature for pinpointing the *specific posts* that I have not yet read within a thread. It is very useful.

I am talking about the small square (with the little triangle in its bottom right corner) that is located immediately to the left of the “Topic Title” of any thread containing posts I have not yet read. These Topic Titles are on the “Your topics” page I get when I click on “View New Posts” on the OL home/index page.

This little square with triangle gadget saves me a lot of time. Instead of always scrolling through a thread, trying to find exactly which posts I have already read or not, this pinpoints the unread ones. I wish that I would have known about this earlier. (I am very active on a wildly busy Buddhist discussion board that uses this same software, so I am going to see if this trick works there as well.)

I try to visit OL here when I have enough time to read everything I might be interested in during one visit. Then I click “Mark all forums [sic] as read and return to index.” I am a relative newcomer here, so I am working slowly to discover some of the early writings on this site.

Kat, in your post above you say you are trying to find an easier way to view unread posts. But I think this little square/triangle feature covers that quite well. (But, then, why is anyone listening to me on technical matters? About all that I can do is switch on my computer, and on a bad day that is troublesome.) Again, thank you for a lovely website.

-Ross Barlow.

[Kat]

Unfortunately, the board does not have a function that will only show you the unread posts. The tech told me that it would be a custom programming modification.

Here are some tips and screenshots to make navigating and scanning the board for new posts a bit easier.

• The first column has the folder icon which is color coded to show new and hot topics by color (see legend)
  
• The second column is for the post icons (emoticons and symbols selected below the text entry box when posting)
  
• The third column is the name of the thread (topic) and will have a small orange box if unread
  
• The right column shows the last post and clicking on the words "Last post by:" this will take you there. Be careful not to click on the name of the poster, as this will take you to the poster's profile.
  
• Orange flags indicate unread posts, but only work when logged in and cookie set (remember me box when you log on)
  
• Clicking on the orange flag will take you straight to the first unread post in the thread
  

Kat

[Kat]

More Navigation Tips

• Clicking the logo at the top left always brings you back to the main page
  
• You can navigate easily within a forum by clicking the text links that are in the top left
  
• You can scan a thread faster by using low-fi view (available at the bottom of the page)
  
• When in a thread, click the Options button choose print (for a simplified view without avatars) or change the display mode to outline for the very basics and go only to the post you want without scrolling
  
• Subscribe to a thread if you want email notification of new posts in a topic of interest