23 October 1983

[gary williams]

On this day in 1983 I "earned" my first bronze star. Lebanon. The Marine barracks was down and so was the French. I was close to the latter. FYI, I was "Special!" I was 20 and bulletproof. Ran though sniper fire and pulled 5 French soldiers from the rubble. All dead or dying.

On 24 October 1983 I killed my first human being. Over the next 2 months I killed 16 more. Remember every single face. Most from a distance. Some at point blank. On 15 December I killed number 17. My birthday. She was a 12 year old Arab-Palastinian. Someone placed a grenade in her hands...and pulled the pin. She was looking for Israelis I think. I put a 5.56mm bullet in her head. She was smiling.

Whats the point of me telling you fine folk all this?

No one remembers 23 October 1983. Pisses me off!!!

300 mothers lost their sons that day. I was there. And no a fucker remembers!

This morning I was going though some ancient boxes of crap I had accumulated over the years. Found a Bronze Star. Old. I had forgotten. I never forget but I did. I forgot what today was!!! I hate it!!!

Anyhew...There is no Objectivist reason I speak. Just speaking anyway. Just want folks to remember. Remember them.

Wish I had a itty bitty russian woman with a big brain to talk to today. I would ask for Objectivist answers to subjective questions. Like, what would she think about a 20 year old kid who for two months was a monster. The Angel of Death. Is there an objective answer?

Nevermind.

Just remember today. 23 October.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Gary,

I don't know enough to comment, but I do know enough to say that you are no monster.

From what I read, you have had some horrible experiences in life and you are in pain.

But I repeat, you are no monster.

In fact, if I ever build a structure large enough to need a bulldog for protection, I know where to look.

Michael

[BaalChatzaf]

Just remember today. 23 October.

I remember it quite well. I was a member of the Chavurah Kadesha which performs Jewish burial rites on decedant Jewish men prior to a Jewish burial. We get one of the Marines, a Jewish boy from Nashua NH and we did a tahorah (cleansing rite) in his body. He was a mess.

I won't forget. Never. I won't forgive. Ever. I remember the day because after doing the rite I felt the same way I later felt on 9/12/2001. Only this time the feeling has not gone away and it won't - ever.

Be assured, there are those who have not forgotten.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[Chris Grieb]

Gary; I will remember.

I agree with Michael totally. You seem like a good person. Don't be so hard on yourself.

[jeffrey smith]

Gary, my full respect to you.

You were engaged in fighting moral monsters. If they had not put the grenade in the hands of that girl, you would not have needed to shoot her. And they put the grenade in her hands because they knew that you, being a moral person, would react the way you did.

And we do remember what happened at the Marine barracks.

Jeffrey S.

[Selene]

Gary:

Thank you for protecting us as you know you were. I never forget that day because my young friend "Murph" who I was a mentor/coach/father figure for, joined the Marines, partly because of my encouragement.

He was supposed to have been in those barracks that were blown to smithereens by Islamofascists. I got a call from Murph's mom who was hysterical. She could not get any info. As you well know being there, it is living in a slow motion hell. Noone can "see" the total event.

Basically, very few people knew how bad it was. I told her I would find out. Wound up getting my Congressman out of bed at about 3 in the morning and flat out threatened him, that I needed to know by morning.

At 8:30, I got a call that Murph had been rotated to his ship with his company the day before and that he was alive. He asked me to convey that he was ok, but nothing more.

Here we are some quarter century later remembering the same event from three radically different angles.

I cannot, and will not, think of any American soldier who carries out his duty to his squad, his oath, his country and himself as a "monster". Your courage never was, and is not now, monstrous in any way. I would have taken the same action. I would look to try to forget and probably never would.

I hate to be crude, but you shoot a rabid dog because it is deadly. You saved lives that day. That weapon disguised as a 12 year old girl had to be neutralized. You saved lives that day.

It might have been my friend Murph's life because he rotated back in country immediately and may even have fought along side of you.

Thank you.

Adam

[Alfonso Jones]

Gary -

Thanks for your post. You are not a monster.

In my judgment, your actions were most appropriate. You were fighting against monsters.

Bill P

[BaalChatzaf]

What can I say, Gary. You have done more for me than I have done for you.

Semper Fi!

Ba'al Chatzaf

[gary williams]

Thanks folks. More should remember.

But I need to...I dont know....re-phrase?

I dont feel bad. I chose to be a monster. I chose to be death. I was good at it.

Except the girl. That I don't like. Yeah, she would have killed maybe me, but damn sure the Israeli's near by.

Weird, and no I dont want this to be a long discussion, but she was scowling when she saw them. Then she saw me. I smiled. She smiled. Why?

I saw the grenade and well, I reacted.

Anyway. I chose to be what I was. No regrets except, just wish that girl had gone to school or was playing soccer or anything else that day.

Fuck the rest.

I dispise tribalism.

And what I would love to ask the itty bitty russian woman is...Were MY actions, tribal? Is revenge Objective? And, if you enjoyed it..."at that time"? Well, thats the monster question.

Gone fishin'!

Heard any Obama jokes? Hehehehehehee!

Oh, FYI! Bronze Star numero dos was because a certain Battleship could',t hit the side of a barn!!! No "V" on dis velvet rope, but my sorry ass walked big mutha shells in on some Syrians. No idea what I was doing. Coulda walk'm in on my own big ass! True! Worked though.

I never cared for Syrians. Just dont like them. They kill good people.

I love Israelis.

I love the "New Jersey" but she cant shoot straight.

Marines make good pets. But their mama's love them. (no one else does...I mean they bite and shit in sand! Cant be house trained!)

And...folks....I AM ARMY!!! Hooaah!!!

Funny green beenie included.

gw

Tribal? Objective? Put yourself there. Answer that.

Whut u say Baal?

[Mikee]

Gary,

You certainly are not a monster. You saved lives and caused the failure of the "super weapon" of cowards. Thank you for your courage and decisiveness in the defense of reason.

I wish you a long life, prosperity, and peace of mind.

-Mike Erickson

[BaalChatzaf]

Thanks folks. More should remember.

But I need to...I dont know....re-phrase?

I dont feel bad. I chose to be a monster. I chose to be death. I was good at it.

Except the girl. That I don't like. Yeah, she would have killed maybe me, but damn sure the Israeli's near by.

Weird, and no I dont want this to be a long discussion, but she was scowling when she saw them. Then she saw me. I smiled. She smiled. Why?

I saw the grenade and well, I reacted.

Anyway. I chose to be what I was. No regrets except, just wish that girl had gone to school or was playing soccer or anything else that day.

Fuck the rest.

I dispise tribalism.

And what I would love to ask the itty bitty russian woman is...Were MY actions, tribal? Is revenge Objective? And, if you enjoyed it..."at that time"? Well, thats the monster question.

Gone fishin'!

Heard any Obama jokes? Hehehehehehee!

Oh, FYI! Bronze Star numero dos was because a certain Battleship could',t hit the side of a barn!!! No "V" on dis velvet rope, but my sorry ass walked big mutha shells in on some Syrians. No idea what I was doing. Coulda walk'm in on my own big ass! True! Worked though.

I never cared for Syrians. Just dont like them. They kill good people.

I love Israelis.

I love the "New Jersey" but she cant shoot straight.

Marines make good pets. But their mama's love them. (no one else does...I mean they bite and shit in sand! Cant be house trained!)

And...folks....I AM ARMY!!! Hooaah!!!

Funny green beenie included.

gw

Tribal? Objective? Put yourself there. Answer that.

Whut u say Baal?

Special Forces? In any case you are Army Strong. If I were given to envy, I would envy you. I wanted to be a Real Warrior when I was younger but chronic asthma disqualified me. So I settled for making weapons that Real Warriors could use to kill the foe. I did what I could for King and Kountry. When I was a child during WW2 my dream was to be a bombardier like my uncles (one in the European theater and one in the Pacific theater). My dad was drafted old, so he was a dry land sailor for the USN in Cleveland. Lake Erie was the closest he got to water during WW2.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[Selene]

That is a great statement on freedom and individualism because that is what we strive for.

"Anyway. I chose to be what I was. No regrets except, just wish that girl had gone to school or was playing soccer or anything else that day."

Your actions, however you have to cast them, allowed, directly or indirectly, little Israeli girls to go to school or anything else on a lot of future days. Additionally, a lot of American girls got the same chance. Tribal is not an action you chose once you committed to defend us. I understand. I act tribally when necessary, as most folks will.

Hooaah and Thank You sir.

Adam

[Brant Gaede]

That's interesting, Gary. What was your SF occupational specialty?

--Brant

[gary williams]

That's interesting, Gary. What was your SF occupational specialty?

--Brant

18 Foxtrot

[Brant Gaede]

That's interesting, Gary. What was your SF occupational specialty?

--Brant

18 Foxtrot

That's interesting. I'm ex-SF and didn't know that. Things sure have changed since I was in. Is 18 Foxtrot Intelligence Sergeant? Apparently. Checking the Internet, if I were in today I'd be 18 Delta (Medical). If you don't belong to the Special Forces Association, you might get some value from it.

--Brant

Edited November 13, 2009 by Brant Gaede

[CNA]

Come on, T.b., ;) you're by no means a monster and there's always an answer, some answers take much longer to attain but they're always out there. You just got to figure it out and you will.

*Big Big Super duper HUG*

[Brant Gaede]

There were cases of children bearing grenades in Vietnam. I didn't encounter any but I would have shot such. If I had done that I'd be tormented to this day, but even knowing that I'd be tormented beforehand would not have stopped me. That's war. That's also one reason why I never considered a second tour in Vietnam. Civilian and out. The things I remember are bad enough. Because I had been on the ground in combat if I had been President instead of Bush there'd have been no Iraq war. Bush spent his time in the Air Nat'l Guard. What he did was dangerous but he never saw war. It was President stupid Bush that has ruined this country ruined before by daddy Bush who made him possible made possible in turn by Pres. Reagan who put him on the ticket as veep instead of Jack Kemp. But it was inevitable for stupid like cream rises to the top when it comes to politics. No matter what short term fix that may appear this country is doomed. Like us all--if we are all lucky--it'll grow old and die. For humanity the future is positive, however, so live an individual, international, productive and prosperous life and forget America but not the idea of America which is not the actual reality.

--Brant

the US govnm't has fucked over the indians for hundreds of yrs--we are all indians now

Edited November 15, 2009 by Brant Gaede

[Selene]

There were cases of children bearing grenades in Vietnam. I didn't encounter any but I would have shot such. If I had done that I'd be tormented to this day, but even knowing that I'd be tormented beforehand would not have stopped me. That's war. That's also one reason why I never considered a second tour in Vietnam. Civilian and out. The things I remember are bad enough. Because I had been on the ground in combat if I had been President instead of Bush there'd have been no Iraq war. Bush spent his time in the Air Nat'l Guard. What he did was dangerous but he never saw war. It was President stupid Bush that has ruined this country ruined before by daddy Bush who made him possible made possible in turn by Pres. Reagan who put him on the ticket as veep instead of Jack Kemp. But it was inevitable for stupid like cream rises to the top when it comes to politics. No matter what short term fix that may appear this country is doomed. Like us all--if we are all lucky--it'll grow old and die. For humanity the future is positive, however, so live an individual, international, productive and prosperous life and forget America but not the idea of America which is not the actual reality.

--Brant

the US govnm't has fucked over the indians for hundreds of yrs--we are all indians now

Supreme Court refuses to hear Redskins naming case

By Robert Barnes

Washington Post Staff Writer

Monday, November 16, 2009 1:14 PM

The Supreme Court on Monday declined to revive a lawsuit on behalf of Native American activists who claimed that the Washington Redskins' team name is so offensive that it does not deserve trademark protection.

The court without comment refused to get involved in the long-running dispute. The decision essentially lets stand a lower court ruling that the activists waited too long to bring the challenge.

The team has been known as the Redskins since 1933, when the name was changed from the Boston Braves. It became the Washington Redskins in 1937, when the team moved south.

The lawsuit was filed in 1992, when seven activists challenged a Redskins trademark issued in 1967. They won seven years later in a decision by the Trademark Trial and Appeal Board, which said the name could be interpreted as offensive to Native Americans. The case is Harjo v. Pro-Football Inc.

Trademark law prohibits registration of a name that "may disparage . . . persons, living or dead, . . . or bring them into contempt, or disrepute."

The team appealed to federal court.

Judges at the district and circuit levels said the activists' trademark cancellation claim was barred by the doctrine of laches, which serves as a defense against claims that should have been made long ago.

The activists argued that disparaging trademarks can be challenged at any time, citing a decision from the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 3rd Circuit. The decision was written by then-judge Samuel A. Alito Jr., who now sits on the Supreme Court.

But the U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit said that was merely a "suggestion" of how to interpret the law.

The federal district judge who heard the lawsuit also said the activists had not proven that the name was disparaging.

The Supreme Court considered only the question of whether the suit was barred because of the passage of too much time.

Adam

[jeffrey smith]

Bush spent his time in the Air Nat'l Guard. What he did was dangerous but he never saw war. It was President stupid Bush that has ruined this country ruined before by daddy Bush who made him possible made possible in turn by Pres. Reagan who put him on the ticket as veep instead of Jack Kemp.

--Brant

the US govnm't has fucked over the indians for hundreds of yrs--we are all indians now

I understand perfectly why people voted for Bush in 2004, and why people for voted for him in the 2001 general election, but I've never understood why Republican voters ever voted for him in the primaries. I had the impression that the party establishment picked him as their anointed candidate solely on the grounds that he was GHWBush's son; but beyond that I could never see why a voter would think him better than any of the other possible GOP alternatives (granted, there weren't many on offer, apparently due to the party establishment).

And one of the things I remember very clearly from the 2001 election season was a news report which featured a sound bite from some Midwestern prospective voter who said--unfortunately, I don't remember the exact wording, but this is a close paraphrase: "I'm voting for Bush because he's not smarter than me!"

[Selene]

Bush spent his time in the Air Nat'l Guard. What he did was dangerous but he never saw war. It was President stupid Bush that has ruined this country ruined before by daddy Bush who made him possible made possible in turn by Pres. Reagan who put him on the ticket as veep instead of Jack Kemp.

--Brant

the US govnm't has fucked over the indians for hundreds of yrs--we are all indians now

I understand perfectly why people voted for Bush in 2004, and why people for voted for him in the 2001 general election, but I've never understood why Republican voters ever voted for him in the primaries. I had the impression that the party establishment picked him as their anointed candidate solely on the grounds that he was GHWBush's son; but beyond that I could never see why a voter would think him better than any of the other possible GOP alternatives (granted, there weren't many on offer, apparently due to the party establishment).

And one of the things I remember very clearly from the 2001 election season was a news report which featured a sound bite from some Midwestern prospective voter who said--unfortunately, I don't remember the exact wording, but this is a close paraphrase: "I'm voting for Bush because he's not smarter than me!"

Jeff:

Might you remember the medium - TV or Radio and which station? I know it is asking a lot, but it would make a lot of sense as to that "clip" making the broadcast.

Adam

pesky memory tester

[jeffrey smith]

I understand perfectly why people voted for Bush in 2004, and why people for voted for him in the 2001 general election, but I've never understood why Republican voters ever voted for him in the primaries. I had the impression that the party establishment picked him as their anointed candidate solely on the grounds that he was GHWBush's son; but beyond that I could never see why a voter would think him better than any of the other possible GOP alternatives (granted, there weren't many on offer, apparently due to the party establishment).

And one of the things I remember very clearly from the 2001 election season was a news report which featured a sound bite from some Midwestern prospective voter who said--unfortunately, I don't remember the exact wording, but this is a close paraphrase: "I'm voting for Bush because he's not smarter than me!"

Jeff:

Might you remember the medium - TV or Radio and which station? I know it is asking a lot, but it would make a lot of sense as to that "clip" making the broadcast.

Adam

pesky memory tester

Good point.

I remember seeing it on the national evening news, which means (giving our TV viewing habits at the time) it would have been NBC Evening News. If I remember correctly, the report was trying to bring out that many people thought Gore was too smart for anyone's good, and it supplied at least one or two other "regular people" types who said so, rationally and reasonably--in other words, that they dislike Gore because he was an elitist--as well as this guy, who said he liked Bush because Bush was as dumb as he was (obviously, that's a paraphrase), and any possible reference to Gore must have been left on the editing room floor.

Looking back, I don't think there was any anti-Bush bias. If anything, the report was critical of Gore by giving extensive coverage of the fact that people considered him to be an elitist, and nothing (at least that I can remember) that would defend him against that charge.

However, that was still in my pre-libertarian, blue dog Democrat days, so maybe I did miss some of the bias. If there's any bias present, it's my personal one that thinks being smarter than anyone else in the room is a good thing, and voting for someone because he's not too smart is--well, not too smart.

BTW, can you shed some light on the question I raised? What was it that made GWBush seem the best available Republican in 2000?

Jeffrey S.

Edited November 17, 2009 by jeffrey smith

[Selene]

Jeff:

This was the field. I backed Kasich early.

Good man. Father was a Postal worker.

Then when he dropped out, I backed McCain right to the bitter end. Then of course between 2000 and 2004 we had 911 and McCain Feingold and McCain on immigration, global warning and other dementia positions.

Wiki putting Harold Stassen in is just outright hilarious.

Adam

Candidates [rouges] gallery Governor George W. Bush of Texas

Senator John McCain of Arizona

Former U.S. ECOSOC Ambassador Alan Keyes of Maryland

Businessman Steve Forbes of New York

Senator Orrin Hatch of Utah

Former Secretary of Labor Elizabeth Dole of North Carolina

Publisher and author Pat Buchanan of Virginia

Former Vice President Dan Quayle of Indiana

Former Secretary of Education Lamar Alexander of Tennessee

Senator Robert C. Smith of New Hampshire

Representative John Kasich of Ohio

Former Governor Harold E. Stassen of Minnesota

[jeffrey smith]

Jeff:

This was the field. I backed Kasich early.

Good man. Father was a Postal worker.

Then when he dropped out, I backed McCain right to the bitter end. Then of course between 2000 and 2004 we had 911 and McCain Feingold and McCain on immigration, global warning and other dementia positions.

Wiki putting Harold Stassen in is just outright hilarious.

Adam

Thank you, although I already knew you had more intelligence than most of the Republican party

Jeff S.

[Brant Gaede]

Bush spent his time in the Air Nat'l Guard. What he did was dangerous but he never saw war. It was President stupid Bush that has ruined this country ruined before by daddy Bush who made him possible made possible in turn by Pres. Reagan who put him on the ticket as veep instead of Jack Kemp.

--Brant

the US govnm't has fucked over the indians for hundreds of yrs--we are all indians now

I understand perfectly why people voted for Bush in 2004, and why people for voted for him in the 2001 general election, but I've never understood why Republican voters ever voted for him in the primaries. I had the impression that the party establishment picked him as their anointed candidate solely on the grounds that he was GHWBush's son; but beyond that I could never see why a voter would think him better than any of the other possible GOP alternatives (granted, there weren't many on offer, apparently due to the party establishment).

And one of the things I remember very clearly from the 2001 election season was a news report which featured a sound bite from some Midwestern prospective voter who said--unfortunately, I don't remember the exact wording, but this is a close paraphrase: "I'm voting for Bush because he's not smarter than me!"

I always saw him as an incipient disaster and was proved right--in spades.

--Brant

[gary williams]

That's interesting, Gary. What was your SF occupational specialty?

--Brant

18 Foxtrot

That's interesting. I'm ex-SF and didn't know that. Things sure have changed since I was in. Is 18 Foxtrot Intelligence Sergeant? Apparently. Checking the Internet, if I were in today I'd be 18 Delta (Medical). If you don't belong to the Special Forces Association, you might get some value from it.

--Brant