Hi all

[Brant Gaede]

You can argue pride is an objective value but not prove it. You'll be reduced to an opinion. It's too abstract. If you can't prove it the default is always subjective pending eividence. Pride makes me feel good and it's a component of self-esteem. I think you have to be free to act in such a way that pride is one consequence, a kind of reward. It has to be a moral action. Unfortunately, some "moral" actions are objectively immoral. Setting up and operating a death camp for Jews = pride for a job well done? Pride for being an (objective,) effective monster? I wonder if anyone ever felt that? Feelings can betray us.

--Brant

Edited November 7, 2009 by Brant Gaede

[Selene]

Evening folks, just got back from a wonderful weekend upstate NY.

"To exist is to be something,.."

OK, and this differs from existence exists ...how?

Adam

Just asking the first question of many of course. Will read the rest of the post soon though.

[Xray]

The post by this young person made me think of what we had been discussing recently:

http://www.objectivistliving.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=7855&pid=83590&st=20entry83590

Excerpt from a prior post of mine:

Often posters mention that they first got acquainted with Rand's fiction at a young age.

The Brandens too were young students when first meeting Rand. Peikoff as well. I have often asked myself if I would have seen through it all so clearly if I had read Rand's novels at a young age, and not decades later.

Although in my youth, I probably would not have chosen such novels at all, but still, suppose my classmates had told me "You've got to read that - it's great!" I might have become curious enough to give it a try.

Young people are often in sort of a limbo - dissatisfied with their current circumstances and philosophy.

And then Rand comes along, seemingly with promise of a preferable alternative.

Some eventually discover the flaws.

Others never scratched the surface, hence, remain dazzled.

See also Dragonfly's post on the following thread: http://www.objectivistliving.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=7712&st=180&p=82241entry82241, (# 187)

I have read somewhere that N. Branden had read The Fountainhead 40 (!) times before meeting Ayn Rand. If this is true, then imo it allows the inference that the book played a Bible-like role for NB.

Being enamored with the heroes in the novels, the desire to regard these as truth coupled with the desire to emulate to gain in sense of self-value - all this creats a mindset of a package deal, where the follower feels obliged to accept Rand's "brilliant thinking" in all areas of life.

I have no doubt that without the novels, Rand's non-fiction would never have gotten off the ground. ITOE would not have been given the time of day.

Yet, when mentally incorporated with the novels, by devotees, ITOE is heralded as "great thinking."

Edited November 15, 2009 by Xray