Great Literature

[Philip Coates]

Subject: Willy and Me

Part 3B. *** Intermission - and Concretization ***

King Henry V:

If we are mark'd to die, we are enow [enough]

To do our country loss; and if to live,

The fewer men, the greater share of honour.

God's will! I pray thee, wish not one man more.

....

Rather proclaim it, Westmoreland, through my host,

That he which hath no stomach to this fight,

Let him depart; his passport shall be made,

And crowns for convoy put into his purse;

We would not die in that man's company

That fears his fellowship to die with us.

This day is call'd the feast of Crispian.

He that outlives this day, and comes safe home,

Will stand a tip-toe when this day is nam'd,

And rouse him at the name of Crispian.

He that shall live this day, and see old age,

Will yearly on the vigil feast his neighbours,

And say 'To-morrow is Saint Crispian.'

Then will he strip his sleeve and show his scars,

And say 'These wounds I had on Crispian's day.'

Old men forget; yet all shall be forgot,

But he'll remember, with advantages,

What feats he did that day. Then shall our names,

Familiar in his mouth as household words-

Harry the King, Bedford and Exeter,

Warwick and Talbot, Salisbury and Gloucester-

Be in their flowing cups freshly rememb'red.

This story shall the good man teach his son;

And Crispin Crispian shall ne'er go by,

From this day to the ending of the world,

But we in it shall be remembered-

We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;

For he to-day that sheds his blood with me

Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,

This day shall gentle his condition;

And gentlemen in England now-a-bed

Shall think themselves accurs'd they were not here,

And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks

That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day.

--act IV, scene III

(Shakespeare is meant to be acted. For full effect, read this speech to the troops out loud. Slowly. --- Don't be embarrassed. You probably won't be arrested.)

Edited September 12, 2009 by Philip Coates

[BaalChatzaf]

Subject: Willy and Me

Part 3B. *** Intermission - and Concretization ***

King Henry V:

If we are mark'd to die, we are enow [enough]

To do our country loss; and if to live,

The fewer men, the greater share of honour.

God's will! I pray thee, wish not one man more.

....

Rather proclaim it, Westmoreland, through my host,

That he which hath no stomach to this fight,

Let him depart; his passport shall be made,

And crowns for convoy put into his purse;

We would not die in that man's company

That fears his fellowship to die with us.

This day is call'd the feast of Crispian.

He that outlives this day, and comes safe home,

Will stand a tip-toe when this day is nam'd,

And rouse him at the name of Crispian.

He that shall live this day, and see old age,

Will yearly on the vigil feast his neighbours,

And say 'To-morrow is Saint Crispian.'

Then will he strip his sleeve and show his scars,

And say 'These wounds I had on Crispian's day.'

Old men forget; yet all shall be forgot,

But he'll remember, with advantages,

What feats he did that day. Then shall our names,

Familiar in his mouth as household words-

Harry the King, Bedford and Exeter,

Warwick and Talbot, Salisbury and Gloucester-

Be in their flowing cups freshly rememb'red.

This story shall the good man teach his son;

And Crispin Crispian shall ne'er go by,

From this day to the ending of the world,

But we in it shall be remembered-

We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;

For he to-day that sheds his blood with me

Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,

This day shall gentle his condition;

And gentlemen in England now-a-bed

Shall think themselves accurs'd they were not here,

And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks

That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day.

--act IV, scene III

(Shakespeare is meant to be acted. For full effect, read this speech to the troops out loud. Slowly. --- Don't be embarrassed. You probably won't be arrested.)

God Almighty! I remember both Olivier and Branagh saying those lines and I still get goose bumps thinking about it. I wonder if the surviving heroes of Normandy don't have a similar feeling. I liked the Olivier version Henry V. Britain was at war and the public needed a boost to their spirit and moral. Olivier's performance in the movie version of Henry V sure did the trick.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[Philip Coates]

Because of "Renaissance Man", I finally made my way to the Branagh film. But I haven't seen the Olivier, and I love him in most movies where I've seen him. So it's something to look forward to.

> I wonder if the surviving heroes of Normandy don't have a similar feeling.

Baal, not only the survivors of Normandy, but anyone who has ever felt down. Or needed to rouse himself or others. Or has ever fought a battle, military or intellectual (hint! hint!) where the outcome is uncertain or against long odds.

Edited September 12, 2009 by Philip Coates

[Philip Coates]

Willy and Me - Parts 1-3B (Summary of posts 60, 61, 64, 75, 76)

I hated Shakespeare.

I read four plays in high school. (Perhaps five - I might have blanked out "Romeo and Juliet" and erased it from my memory banks in sheer resentment and protest.)

Decades later, I saw two movies, "The Scarlet Pimpernel" and "Renaissance Man", which were not films of Shakespeare plays, but they included two powerful speeches from plays we had not read and I had not heard much about -- "Richard II" and "Henry IV". The double-barreled experience finally shattered my simplistic view of Shakespeare as boring, long-winded, largely incomprehensible. And highly overrated.

The two speeches also showed strong, forceful, passionate exceptions to Ayn Rand's over-simplified view of Willy Boy's tragic sense of life. Well, yes, he was tragic in his -tragedies-. Duh! But he also wrote comedies and histories.

And I saw the beginnings of a new way of connecting with still another, a -third- play, "Hamlet", which I had read but had not understood.

[Philip Coates]

Willy and Me - Conclusion

..

[Mikee]

Willy and Me - Conclusion

..

Phil,

Conclusion: left as an exercise for the student? I think I just flunked.

Are you suggesting I stop reading sci-fi for awhile and go read Shakespeare?

[Philip Coates]

MAJOR TRAGEDY

... I CAN'T GET MY CAPS KEY TO UNLOCK...

Sorry. Ok, working now...

Here comes the conclusion of my piece on Shakespeare and how my views and experience of him underwent a 'sea change'. It was a *LOT* of work to write this, so please take time to comment --- if you learned anything or didn't or have an agreement or disagreement or have some other lit figure or major influence in your life that you went through a "sea change", a major evolution with regard to. Or whatever --- if you want me to go do this again ...

Edited September 13, 2009 by Philip Coates

[Philip Coates]

Willy and Me - Conclusion

And on the third day (decade), "Julius Caesar" rose from the dead.

As a new millennium gained momentum, I now taught literature. Mark Antony standing in front of the body of his mentor, started with "Friends, Romans, Countrymen, lend me your ears." What I remembered most from years ago was sitting in the back of the class snickering and making sawing motions and passing around each others' imaginary bloody ears with my ninth grade colleagues (or fellow juvenile delinquents - academic opinion varies on that point).

What I discovered when I came to teach this speech, is that it was incredibly clever and well-written. Antony is facing an angry crowd ready to tear to pieces anyone who says anything in favor of Caesar or against the Senators, Brutus and Cassius, who have knifed him to death. In accordance, he says he doesn't come to praise Caesar. Just to bury him. On the surface, he says nothing against and shows enormous respect for the "noble" conspirators. But he slowly plays on the mob's emotions by giving example after example portraying the assassinated leader in a sympathetic light. "He hath brought many captives home to Rome...When the poor have cried, Caesar hath wept...I thrice presented him a crown, Which he did thrice refuse" But then he keeps repeating, oh so innocently and piously in a steady refrain, what the conspirators have claimed. "Yet Brutus says he was ambitious; And sure he is an honorable man."

"I speak not to disprove what Brutus spoke," Antony says. But that is -exactly- what he is doing, systematically and progressively pulling the politico-emotional toga from under his feet. Remember when Dagny goes on the radio and it's only at the very end is it is clear to the airwave monitors that she is against everything the government is proposing?

Step by step, Antony turns the crowd from applauding Caesar's murder to weeping for him to chasing the murderers through the streets. It's absolutely brilliant oratory. Whether or not you are on the side of Caesar and Antony (or Cleopatra the Queen of Denial...but that comes a bit later). I had heard many times to the point of boredom that this was one of the great speeches. Now, as of necessity I took the speech apart for and in the classroom, I could see that.

Fast forward: I will see anything Al Pacino is in. And in 2004, he played Shylock in "The Merchant of Venice." I saw it in a theater in Berkeley the last week of its run, so I couldn't get back in time to see it twice or three times. Pacino made Shylock suddenly understandable as a character. And through him the entire play sprang into focus. I couldn't get it into my literature curriculum fast enough! Teaching the play, it became clear that each part, each scene, all of what had seemed before boring, endless speeches made sense and were useful. They showed character and attitudes and scheming. They advanced the story. They showed real depth of emotion, showed what it was like to be a despised Jew in the world of the time, and the steps by which one's own role as loathed object coarsens you so that you are ready to victimize or oppress others. And then there is Portia - beautiful, clever, eloquent, open-hearted, resourceful Portia. So much unlike and a foil for Shylock in many ways. Many people think her one of the best female characters in literature....

In the years to come, I experienced two of Dubya's comedies for the first time, "Love's Labour Lost" as a frothy, madcap film. And my whole school rented a van and took a road trip up to the Asland Shakespeare Festival to see "As You Like It" plus a play by Moliere. Believe it or not, this was my first experience seeing a Shalespeare -play-, as opposed to a movie. AYLI is full of wit, clever dialogue and repartee. (And some famous speeches and dialogue that you would recognize -- if only, alas and alack, this post had room for them!) I was eager to teach the play as soon as we got back. I think my whole high school English class enjoyed the weeks we spent on it as much as I did.

,,,,,,,

EPILOGUE: It is now 2009. I got a late start and have by no means read or seen all of Willy Boy's plays. But every time I've taught one, it has been a work of a great genius. I've laughed, revelled in it, loved it. Shakespeare is considered the greatest playwright in the English language. Well, I'm beginning to see that that could actually be true. (Of course, I haven't *read* every playwright in the English language. Hmmmmm?)

Two of my high school four down; two to go. Who knows, maybe I'll even find a way to teach Macbeth (or...shudder...Hamlet). They can't be as anti-causal, random, and insane or dark and frankensteinian (is that actually an adjective?) as I remember.

Can they? I survived them once years ago. And if I have to teach them, I'll have to reread them. Scene by scene. Line by line. And understand them.

Edited September 13, 2009 by Philip Coates

[anonrobt]

Willy and Me - Conclusion

And on the third day (decade), "Julius Caesar" rose from the dead.

As a new millennium gained momentum, I now taught literature. Mark Antony standing in front of the body of his mentor, started with "Friends, Romans, Countrymen, lend me your ears." What I remembered most from years ago was sitting in the back of the class snickering and making sawing motions and passing around each others' imaginary bloody ears with my ninth grade colleagues (or fellow juvenile delinquents - academic opinion varies on that point).

What I discovered when I came to teach this speech, is that it was incredibly clever and well-written. Antony is facing an angry crowd ready to tear to pieces anyone who says anything in favor of Caesar or against the Senators, Brutus and Cassius, who have knifed him to death. In accordance, he says he doesn't come to praise Caesar. Just to bury him. On the surface, he says nothing against and shows enormous respect for the "noble" conspirators. But he slowly plays on the mob's emotions by giving example after example portraying the assassinated leader in a sympathetic light. "He hath brought many captives home to Rome...When the poor have cried, Caesar hath wept...I thrice presented him a crown, Which he did thrice refuse" But then he keeps repeating, oh so innocently and piously in a steady refrain, what the conspirators have claimed. "Yet Brutus says he was ambitious; And sure he is an honorable man."

"I speak not to disprove what Brutus spoke," Antony says. But that is -exactly- what he is doing, systematically and progressively pulling the politico-emotional toga from under his feet. Remember when Dagny goes on the radio and it's only at the very end is it is clear to the airwave monitors that she is against everything the government is proposing?

Step by step, Antony turns the crowd from applauding Caesar's murder to weeping for him to chasing the murderers through the streets. It's absolutely brilliant oratory. Whether or not you are on the side of Caesar and Antony (or Cleopatra the Queen of Denial...but that comes a bit later). I had heard many times to the point of boredom that this was one of the great speeches. Now, as of necessity I took the speech apart for and in the classroom, I could see that.

Fast forward: I will see anything Al Pacino is in. And in 2004, he played Shylock in "The Merchant of Venice." I saw it in a theater in Berkeley the last week of its run, so I couldn't get back in time to see it twice or three times. Pacino made Shylock suddenly understandable as a character. And through him the entire play sprang into focus. I couldn't get it into my literature curriculum fast enough! Teaching the play, it became clear that each part, each scene, all of what had seemed before boring, endless speeches made sense and were useful. They showed character and attitudes and scheming. They advanced the story. They showed real depth of emotion, showed what it was like to be a despised Jew in the world of the time, and the steps by which one's own role as loathed object coarsens you so that you are ready to victimize or oppress others. And then there is Portia - beautiful, clever, eloquent, open-hearted, resourceful Portia. So much unlike and a foil for Shylock in many ways. Many people think her one of the best female characters in literature....

In the years to come, I experienced two of Dubya's comedies for the first time, "Love's Labour Lost" as a frothy, madcap film. And my whole school rented a van and took a road trip up to the Asland Shakespeare Festival to see "As You Like It" plus a play by Moliere. Believe it or not, this was my first experience seeing a Shalespeare -play-, as opposed to a movie. AYLI is full of wit, clever dialogue and repartee. (And some famous speeches and dialogue that you would recognize -- if only, alas and alack, this post had room for them!) I was eager to teach the play as soon as we got back. I think my whole high school English class enjoyed the weeks we spent on it as much as I did.

,,,,,,,

EPILOGUE: It is now 2009. I got a late start and have by no means read or seen all of Willy Boy's plays. But every time I've taught one, it has been a work of a great genius. I've laughed, revelled in it, loved it. Shakespeare is considered the greatest playwright in the English language. Well, I'm beginning to see that that could actually be true. (Of course, I haven't *read* every playwright in the English language. Hmmmmm?)

Two of my high school four down; two to go. Who knows, maybe I'll even find a way to teach Macbeth (or...shudder...Hamlet). They can't be as anti-causal, random, and insane or dark and frankensteinian (is that actually an adjective?) as I remember.

Can they? I survived them once years ago. And if I have to teach them, I'll have to reread them. Scene by scene. Line by line. And understand them.

For seeing Hamlet, would suggest watching Richard Burton's and Mel Gibson's versions, and compare to the written - they're more instructive of the characters than the usual Olivier and Branaugh ones...

[kiaer.ts]

The Branagh version is eye candy. I enjoy the peotry of Hmalet but not the character nor the denouement, so I prefer the pageant of Branagh.

As for getting Shakespeare, I did see some value to him when I read him in highschool. I really only liked Macbeth, since the action was so clear. It wasn't until I saw Richard III in 1995, ten years after my last reading of Shakespeare that I got him. It was the first time I could follow and understand the dialogue in real time. (In the meantime I had studied Latin and greek as well as Russian and german in college.) McKellen's Richard III remains one of my favorite films. I especially like Maggie Smith, but I'd like her anywhere.

Edited September 14, 2009 by Ted Keer

[kiaer.ts]

The youtube clip is washed out, the film is not.

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[jeffrey smith]

Re: Fantasy

Lovecraft, for Cthulhu's sake. At the very least, Charles Dexter Ward, Dunwich Horror and Shadow over Innsmouth

The Worm Ouroboros: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Worm_Ouroboros

Lord Dunsany http://www.dunsany.net/index.htm and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunsany

[Chris Grieb]

Phil; Thanks for comments about Shakespeare. I am going to look for some of these movies.

[Philip Coates]

You're welcome, Chris. (Both "Renaissance Man" and "The Scarlet Pimpernel" are out in DVD & I could watch either one over and over.)

Edited September 14, 2009 by Philip Coates

[Philip Coates]

Question: Has anyone had any experiences similar to what I described my "Willy and Me" essay -- going from hating Shakespeare to loving him?

Any major "awakenings" (other than, obviously, to Objectivism)? Used to hate history and now interested in certain areas?

Or have your broad esthetic or intellectual tastes and preferences been *rock steady* for you throughout your life - always only liking science fiction in literature from adolescence on? Hating Impressionist paintings the music of Bob Dylan from early adulthood till now?

[Brant Gaede]

test. this thread is screwed up.

[Xray]

And DiCaprio as Romeo? Sorry, I saw the Zefferelli film as a teenager and that's been my standard ever since.

Mine too.

This was the first film my parents allowed me to watch "downtown alone" as a teenager - always brings back memories.

[DavidMcK]

Thanks for the clip of Ian McKellen in Richard III; I remember that I saw this with a lot of doubts in the beginning, because of my experience with attempts to 'update' Shakespeare. In High School we went to a college to watch a production of Two Gentlemen, and it was sooooo stupid, motorcyle gangs with steel chains and so on. Then I saw McKellen and I loved it, the only update that seemed to really work. Remember what he was doing when he said 'My Kingdom for a horse" ?

[Chris Grieb]

Question: Has anyone had any experiences similar to what I described my "Willy and Me" essay -- going from hating Shakespeare to loving him?

Any major "awakenings" (other than, obviously, to Objectivism)? Used to hate history and now interested in certain areas?

Or have your broad esthetic or intellectual tastes and preferences been *rock steady* for you throughout your life - always only liking science fiction in literature from adolescence on? Hating Impressionist paintings the music of Bob Dylan from early adulthood till now?

Phil; I have gone from being indifferent to Shakespeare to appreciating great performances. I think public schools destroy any chance to appreciate Shakespeare.

I've come to appreciate mysteries and didn't as a boy.

I wish I could appreciate Jane Austin.

[jriggenbach]

I wish I could appreciate Jane Austin.

She isn't very widely appreciated. You might try reading Jane Austen first. She has a good many more fans and is probably therefore more accessible and more easily appreciated.

Helpfully,

JR

[Philip Coates]

Well, Jesus frekin' Christ, it doesn't look like I'm going to get much response to all those posts I made on "Willy and Me" or to my questions in #90 - which should have connected it to comparable events in people's lives.

Why did I waste my effing time?? I suspect all the esoterica about ancient Finnish vampires might have driven away the truly massive audience for literature.

Or maybe just the word Shakespeare, when there are events in Obamaland to fulminate about?

Put down that science fiction book and back away slowly with your hands up.

Edited September 16, 2009 by Philip Coates

[jeffrey smith]

I wish I could appreciate Jane Austin.

She isn't very widely appreciated. You might try reading Jane Austen first. She has a good many more fans and is probably therefore more accessible and more easily appreciated.

Helpfully,

JR

Try Persuasion first: her last novel, somewhat shorter than the more famous ones, and dealing with a more mature heroine (late 20s as opposed to late teens in the other novels), and less of the aphoristic asides that she's justly famous for.

If that still doesn't stir your interest, try some of the film versions--Ciaran Hinds in Persuasion runs very close to the book (and was shot on location in Bath--the cameras for the final scene were apparently placed in the doors of the Assembly Rooms, for instance, because the street is so precisely recognizable). So does the BBC version of Pride and Prejudice with Colin Firth (the only major deviation being some excess beefcake shots of Firth), and the Emma Thompson version of Sense and Sensibility--the only major deviation there being the fact that the character Thompson plays is actually about twenty years old, instead of however old Thompson was at the time she made it. Her love interest is played by Hugh Grant--who manages to seem young but is actually himself much older than the book presents the character to be.

Austen films are particularly rich in important British actors: they seem to be chronically unable to turn down even a small role in such films, which of course helps elevate the production values. Of course this does lead to strange concurrencies: while watching the most recent BBC production of Mansfield Park, I kept expecting a TARDIS to materialize because Billie Piper (Rose Tyler in the "new" Doctor Who) played the heroine (and did a fairly good job of it, although I wasn't too keen on the film itself). And you'll find Sirius Black in a major supporting role in the Thompson S&S.

[jeffrey smith]

(Apologies for double post)

Edited September 16, 2009 by jeffrey smith

[Brant Gaede]

test

(I fixed my problem on this thread my signing off the site and signing back on)

Edited September 16, 2009 by Brant Gaede

[Brant Gaede]

Well, Jesus frekin' Christ, it doesn't look like I'm going to get much response to all those posts I made on "Willy and Me" or to my questions in #90 - which should have connected it to comparable events in people's lives.

Why did I waste my effing time?? I suspect all the esoterica about ancient Finnish vampires might have driven away the truly massive audience for literature.

Phil, I had a personal emergency. You also have to consider someone reading your stuff a year or more down the line. It is easy to access and look over all a poster's posts, especially if they haven't posted over 4000 times.

--Brant