The persecuted

[Hazard]

I used to be a Christian, but am not anymore. Most of the people that I know are Christians. Suddenly most of my close friends are grilling me over my salvation. Nothing I say changes anything or even brings the argument to a close. How can I have a conversation with people who (truly care about me, but) continue to remind me how "dangerous the path I am taking is" and how "afraid they are for me?"

It's just highly uncomfortable and I want to be able to have a good time with them with out them being constantly worried over my salvation.

I'm sure many of you have had similar issues. What did your experience teach you?

Jordan

Edited August 29, 2009 by Hazard

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Jordan,

I have had good results with saying something like, "That's my secret." Then changing the subject, tone-deaf to further comments by them but with good humor.

Sometimes covering your ears and singing offkey, "La la la la la la laaaaaa..." works.

There are many ways to change the flow of the conversation with good vibes.

The worst thing you can do with someone who wants to save you is try to justify or explain yourself. You can only truly explain anything to a person interested in the answer, not to a person seeking an edge to convert you. So remember that your Christian friends doing their missionary thing are not really interested in what you think in terms of philosophy and never will be so long as they are bent on saving you.

Then it is easier to tune out that part of their discourse and keep the good vibes for the rest.

That is... if they allow it. Some people get really pissed when their attempts at soul-saving fail. Unfortunately with those folks you have to move on. They won't change you and you won't change them. All you will do is irritate each other.

This hurts at times but there is nothing you can do about it. Each person's head is his own property. Even when a person doesn't respect that with you, you should with that person (that is, if you want a world around you without control-freaks in it). This attitude will lead you naturally to move away from toxic people.

The good news is that not everyone is like that. Be totally honest with yourself when judging people and you will be all right.

Michael

[jeffrey smith]

I've always found that a firm statement that you've already heard the arguments, made a thorough investigation of the topic, and come to what you think is the correct decision,and that you appreciate their concern for you, but any further discussion of the topic will annoy you, with the result that you will be even less likely to convert, to work with people that actually care about what you think. For the rest, a frozen smile while saying something snarky will end the discussion. But that's useful only with people whose opinion of you does not matter.

Being Jewish, I have the further indignity of being told what the Jewish Scriptures "mean", which tends to spark a round of KYHOMBYSG*, inevitably capped by my announcement that actually the Hebrew text of whatever passage they want to distort for my benefit says something quite different

*Keep your hands off my Bible, you stupid goy!

[Selene]

Jordan:

I would have them look at this website and then you guys can get together and discuss the ideas in it over whatever stimulants of choice. I am always looking to recruit.

I always explain quickly, for example, to a person who sees my copy of Atlas in my arm or asks me what the book is about, since I may be underlining something while on the train, that it is one of the great books of all time, and even though she is a self proclaimed atheist, it is important to read because.........and then I will adapt the persuasion to the audience.

It pulls that fang and opens the person's inquisitiveness to read the book.

The Christian Objectivist is dedicated to the fundamental question: Can a person grounded in reality, with reason as his guide and rational self-interest as his motivation, find any commonality with the concept of Christianity? Ayn Rand would certainly scoff at such a question, as would the throngs of atheists who have used her philosophy as a rallying cry. But while some rational thinkers are willing to deny even the possibility of a Universal Architect, this site will be dedicated to seekers who find the question to be foundational to the pursuit of happiness.

About Christian Objectivism

The purpose of the Christian Objectivist is to reconcile the key principles of Objectivism with the existence of a Creator within the classical framework of Christianity. The working model is based on the following foundational elements:

• Reality exists as an objective absolute. Man's beliefs do not define reality. Man's errors of perception do not define reality. Reality is subject to man's discovery, not his invention.
• Reason is man's only fundamental method of perceiving reality. Other means of perception, such as faith and emotion, are dependent methods for organizing, interpreting, and expressing previously perceived information. As such, rational perception is the only source of knowledge and must be treated sine qua non in relation to secondary sources.
• Man's perception of reality is an evolutionary process. What was perceivable yesterday does not limit what may be perceivable tomorrow. Things that exist may not be fully perceived, and things that exist may be perceived only indirectly, leading man to draw reasonable conclusions regarding reality.
• Man's rational self-interest in pursuit of happiness is the highest moral purpose of his life. Rational pursuit of happiness, as opposed to emotional, hedonistic, or other whimsical pursuits, is premised on the realization of value from the actualization of man's capacity. Put simply, man's highest purpose is to become a more valuable man, both to himself and to those with whom he would interact for mutual benefit.
• The exercise of personal liberty is foundational to the rational pursuit of happiness. Any collective or dictatorial action that subjugates one man's value for the sake of another man's need is contrary to the pursuit of happiness, as the result is a mutual destruction of value. Submission by free will for mutual benefit is the only rational subservience that can lead to happiness and self-actualization.
• The existence of a Creator or universal prime mover is reasonable if man perceives evidence, whether direct or indirect, of the Creator's existence. Blind faith in atheism is as irrational as blind faith in theism.

http://christianobje....net/index.html <<<<here is the website

I think it is quite well written.

Adam

Edited August 29, 2009 by Selene

[BaalChatzaf]

Being Jewish, I have the further indignity of being told what the Jewish Scriptures "mean", which tends to spark a round of KYHOMBYSG*, inevitably capped by my announcement that actually the Hebrew text of whatever passage they want to distort for my benefit says something quite different

*Keep your hands off my Bible, you stupid goy!

Hee! Hee! Been there, done that, got the T-shirt.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[Hazard]

Thanks to the both of you, I figure, the more of these kinds of conversations that I have, the better I will get at it.

Jordan