Favorite TV Shows Not Written by Ayn Rand

[Michelle]

Ted's thread is begging for this.

I don't watch much TV (less than five hours a week), but there are shows I enjoy.

- King of the Hill (Best animated show I have ever seen. The humor is very organic and down-to-Earth. Unlike other shows like Family Guy or South Park which can be downright malicious, this show never laughs at people: it only laughs at their flaws. The humor, thus, is benevolent. Any other show would have turned Hank Hill into a cheap five-second joke, but here, he is a bit of an elevated figure. Great in his flaws, but greater in his virtues. All of the characterizations are well-done. The opening theme is awesome. The sense of life is life-affirming.)

- Torchwood (The only reason I would ever watch BBC America. What a fun show!)

- Firefly (Joss Whedon's masterpiece. If you've seen it, you know why it is great. If you haven't, then you are missing out on one of the greatest American science-fiction programs ever made. Too bad FOX got it canceled so early in its first season.)

- The Twilight Zone (Best anthology-type show ever made. Famous science-fiction writers regularly contributed to it, and episodes were almost always of the highest quality. The show has no established genre, as its stories span everything from historical drama to fantasy to horror to science fiction, and everything in-between. Rod Serling's baby is one of the greatest programs ever to appear on television.)

- Futurama (This is one of those rare shows that is intelligent, hilarious, AND emotionally engaging. The episodes vary wildly in quality, but even the least of them are still clever, and the best ones are utterly unforgettable. Never have been a fan of The Simpsons, but Mr. Groening won my heart with this one.)

- South Park (While I did cite it unfavorably earlier in the post, this is still a classic. No other show manages to combine juvenile grossness with intelligent social commentary quite like this one does.)

- Buffy the Vampire Slayer (I ignored this show for years due to its silly title. That was a huge mistake. It is a great show somewhat hampered by seasons one and seven, both of which are relatively lackluster. Watch at least halfway through the second season. It becomes utterly compelling through season six.)

Edited July 14, 2009 by Michelle R

[Chris Grieb]

Michelle; Miss Rand liked The Twilight Zone.

[BaalChatzaf]

Ted's thread is begging for this.

I don't watch much TV (less than five hours a week), but there are shows I enjoy.

- Firefly (Joss Whedon's masterpiece. If you've seen it, you know why it is great. If you haven't, then you are missing out on one of the greatest American science-fiction programs ever made. Too bad FOX got it canceled so early in its first season.)

- Buffy the Vampire Slayer (I ignored this show for years due to its silly title. That was a huge mistake. It is a great show somewhat hampered by seasons one and seven, both of which are relatively lackluster. Watch at least halfway through the second season. It becomes utterly compelling through season six.)

Both Buffy and Firefly are the brain children of Joss Whedon. I think Joss is one of the true geniuses of American entertainment. Firefly is considered a sacrament by libertarians, but Whedon himself is not a libertarian. In an article I read (I will see if I can find it) he wanted to play with the notion of how people on the losing end of a civil war would make out after the war. Captain Malcolm "Mal" Reynolds named his ship (a Firefly class freighter) after the the battle of Serenity Valley, the loss of which broke the back of the rebel (brown-coat) cause.

I truly loved that series and I am sorry it did not go on for a few seasons.

Here is the theme song from the show. I sing or hum it frequently:

http://www.fireflywi...of_Serenity.mp3

or

Ba'al Chatzaf

Edited July 14, 2009 by BaalChatzaf

[ginny]

Michelle, I too loved Buffy. One of the best damned written shows on TV. I also love any star trek series - especially the Second Generation.

I've just discovered Law and Order SUV, but am catching all the reruns. It's gritty and realistic, but incredibly well-done.

[Michelle]

Ted's thread is begging for this.

I don't watch much TV (less than five hours a week), but there are shows I enjoy.

- Firefly (Joss Whedon's masterpiece. If you've seen it, you know why it is great. If you haven't, then you are missing out on one of the greatest American science-fiction programs ever made. Too bad FOX got it canceled so early in its first season.)

- Buffy the Vampire Slayer (I ignored this show for years due to its silly title. That was a huge mistake. It is a great show somewhat hampered by seasons one and seven, both of which are relatively lackluster. Watch at least halfway through the second season. It becomes utterly compelling through season six.)

Both Buffy and Firefly are the brain children of Joss Whedon. I think Joss is one of the true geniuses of American entertainment. Firefly is considered a sacrament by libertarians, but Whedon himself is not a libertarian. In an article I read (I will see if I can find it) he wanted to play with the notion of how people on the losing end of a civil war would make out after the war. Captain Malcolm "Mal" Reynolds named his ship (a Firefly class freighter) after the the battle of Serenity Valley, the loss of which broke the back of the rebel (brown-coat) cause.

I truly loved that series and I am sorry it did not go on for a few seasons.

Here is the theme song from the show. I sing or hum it frequently:

http://www.fireflywi...of_Serenity.mp3

or

Ba'al Chatzaf

Yes, both are by Whedon. And they're his two best shows. Angel I've only seen a few episodes of, and they were OK... I'll have to see more of it. And I'm honestly not sure how I feel about his most recent series, Dollhouse. I've watched every episode so far, but there is just something... off about it.

[Michelle]

Michelle, I too loved Buffy. One of the best damned written shows on TV. I also love any star trek series - especially the Second Generation.

I've just discovered Law and Order SUV, but am catching all the reruns. It's gritty and realistic, but incredibly well-done.

I do have one major complaint about season six, though. It concerns the character development of Willow. Considering her growing power-mania was maintained and heightened over the show's five seasons, I was highly disappointed when they tried to play up her power abuse as a metaphor for drug addiction. Buffy and the others running around pulling down things that might make her think of magic (drugs) like she's some kind of junkie was ridiculous. The problem wasn't that she was addicted to a substance (magic) so much that she was abusing magic as a means of maintaining power over others. Give a lonely little nerd girl who has been pushed around all her life the powers of a powerful witch and bad things start to happen. Magic became her replacement for self-confidence, and her second-hander mentality led to the inevitable: Dark Willow, a self-destructive and valueless creature driven by envy and a thirst for vengeance.

(Dark Willow was something of an ingenious creation because Whedon used it both for his dramatic purposes and as a kind of nerd in-joke. The Dark Willow storyline definitely resembles the Dark Phoenix Saga in the X-Men Comic)

Are the Law and Orders worth following? The sheer quanitity of these types of shows boggles my mind, and I never know where to start with things like this. I DID watch an episode with Whoopi Goldberg in it that was actually rather involving.

[Michelle]

Michelle; Miss Rand liked The Twilight Zone.

Well, the show does feature such classics as The Obsolete Man and Number 12 Looks Just Like You (episodes denouncing totalitarianism and selfless conformism, respectively, although I didn't enjoy the strong religious element in the former)

[ginny]

Michelle - too funny. I had to come to OL to discuss Buffy, when everyone else I know made fun of me for liking the show. I agree with the metaphor for drugs. But I liked Dark Willow. It gave the little mouse some room to expand. Also, I think it was an honest expression of the anger a lot of timid people keep inside. I liked all the characters. I'll never forget the early show when Buffy and Angel are at the height of their affair and it becomes clear that his lust makes Angel turn evil. Buffy doesn't for a second hesitate to do what she has to, which is kill him. I mean, her hand doesn't even shake! What a girl! I always considered that pretty damn moral of her.

I thought the kids were good role models for today's kids - all the killing and blood sucking aside. I did have a problem with the second vampire (not Angel) - the blond curly haired guy. I just never bought his transformation. Angel's I bought - he coulda bit me anytime.

As for Law and Order SUV - I just discovered it. But the shows I've seen have kept my attention. (ALERT: this show is not a clear-cut good-bad show. The two frequently get mixed. So beware.)

Ginny

[algernonsidney]

I do have one major complaint about season six, though. It concerns the character development of Willow. Considering her growing power-mania was maintained and heightened over the show's five seasons, I was highly disappointed when they tried to play up her power abuse as a metaphor for drug addiction.

I think they largely copied this theme from the show Charmed (a show which many BTVS fans also like). A constant theme on Charmed is that they are to use their magical powers in defense of the good against evil only, not for personal gain. Power abuse is a lot like drug addiction--the addict constantly searches for a greater and greater high.

My main problem was the baloney with Spike, who should have been killed around the middle of Season 5. His constant wavering between good and evil, and the fact that Buffy started banging him totally ruined her as a hero. The show had generally been very moral.

I mostly blame Marti Noxon for this, as it seems that Joss was not involved much with the show and it shows. She made some very idiotic quotes on the subject of sex and relationships.

Evil Willow was a reaction to the death of Tara (which occurred on my birthday--leave it to Joss Whedon to ruin my birthday). It showed what happens when a good person becomes obsessed with vengeance. Willow had just gotten back with Tara, and it ended like this.

After this, many fans on Fan Forum asked: "Does love ever work out in Sunnydale?"

Incidentally, a friend of one of my Facebook friends mentioned that he had just sold his house to Adam Busch and Amber Benson. That's right--BTVS fans--the excellent actors who played Tara and Warren are a couple in real life.

I want the Great Amberous One all for myself! It was so nice to meet Amber in person at the convention back in Houston in 2005. She is such a sweet and kind person.

[ginny]

Spike - that was the name I couldn't think of. Yeah, I never liked him. And Buffy's affair with him was pretty sleazy. Other than that, it was a pretty good show.

[Michelle]

I do have one major complaint about season six, though. It concerns the character development of Willow. Considering her growing power-mania was maintained and heightened over the show's five seasons, I was highly disappointed when they tried to play up her power abuse as a metaphor for drug addiction.

I think they largely copied this theme from the show Charmed (a show which many BTVS fans also like). A constant theme on Charmed is that they are to use their magical powers in defense of the good against evil only, not for personal gain. Power abuse is a lot like drug addiction--the addict constantly searches for a greater and greater high.

My main problem was the baloney with Spike, who should have been killed around the middle of Season 5. His constant wavering between good and evil, and the fact that Buffy started banging him totally ruined her as a hero. The show had generally been very moral.

I mostly blame Marti Noxon for this, as it seems that Joss was not involved much with the show and it shows. She made some very idiotic quotes on the subject of sex and relationships.

Evil Willow was a reaction to the death of Tara (which occurred on my birthday--leave it to Joss Whedon to ruin my birthday). It showed what happens when a good person becomes obsessed with vengeance. Willow had just gotten back with Tara, and it ended like this.

After this, many fans on Fan Forum asked: "Does love ever work out in Sunnydale?"

Incidentally, a friend of one of my Facebook friends mentioned that he had just sold his house to Adam Busch and Amber Benson. That's right--BTVS fans--the excellent actors who played Tara and Warren are a couple in real life.

I want the Great Amberous One all for myself! It was so nice to meet Amber in person at the convention back in Houston in 2005. She is such a sweet and kind person.

Yes, the two (power and drug addiction) have similarities, but making Willow's magic use a metaphor for drug addiction was completely wrong psychologically for the character. Throughout the show, issues of self-confidence and power constantly pop up for Alyson Hannigan's character. Magic for Willow is a control issue, a substitute for self-confidence.

The sex between Buffy and Spike in season six was supposed to be distasteful. Buffy had just been torn out of paradise, brought back to the demon-filled world of Sunnydale, and, on top of this shock, which made her previously normal problems ten times more difficult for her to bear after experiencing the splendor of Heaven, must also deal with responsibilities such as raising Dawn and making enough money for them to survive. Naturally, she wants to escape this, but realizing that there is no escape (I believe normal suicide leads one to a Hell dimension in this show), begins expressing a subconscious urge to destroy herself. This is what her fling with Spike is about. Sleeping with him both heals some of her emotional pain and satisfies that self-destructive urge. I believe after the episode Normal Again, when Buffy is presented with two "realities" and definitively chooses the more painful one (which she realizes is the really real one), she ends her relationship with Spike, as she has chosen life over death.

As to Spike, I always had problems believing that he really loved Buffy. It just seemed so... out-of-character for him, you know?

As to Dark Willow, Tara's death is NOT the cause of it, but the (admittedly heavy) straw that broke the camel's back. She had been going increasingly insane with power as the show went on, and when she realized that she did not have the power to bring Tara back from a "natural death," it was too great a contradiction for her to bear (the contradiction between her power over everything and being unable to bring her lover back from death, as she had with Buffy).

That episode was on your birthday. Ouch.

Then again, my mother's birthday is September the 11th.

Would you recommend Charmed? I've always thought about watching it, but have never made the leap.

For some reason I have this fear that it is similar to Passions.

[ginny]

Michelle, Charmed isn't bad. It's watchable. But it lacks the tension and striving for morality that Buffy has. The three girls on Charmed could be anyone. Like I said before, I think the kids on Buffy are a terrific ethical role model. (most of them)

Ginny

[jeffrey smith]

- Torchwood (The only reason I would ever watch BBC America. What a fun show!)

Torchwood is actually good?

After trying to watch what Russell Turner Davies did to the "new " Doctor Who (although I must admit the continous commercials on SciFi don't help) I assumed that Torchwood would be just as bad. Of course, effectively jettisoning the whole Gallifreyan context pretty much ruined it for me at the very start--on top of which was the whole Saga of Rose. It's telling that the main reason I watched the most recent season of Who was for the sake of seeing Catherine Tate.

Meantime a voice from my childhood insists that Dark Shadows be included (the original show).

Edited July 15, 2009 by jeffrey smith

[Michelle]

- Torchwood (The only reason I would ever watch BBC America. What a fun show!)

Torchwood is actually good?

After trying to watch what Russell Turner Davies did to the "new " Doctor Who (although I must admit the continous commercials on SciFi don't help) I assumed that Torchwood would be just as bad. Of course, effectively jettisoning the whole Gallifreyan context pretty much ruined it for me at the very start--on top of which was the whole Saga of Rose. It's telling that the main reason I watched the most recent season of Who was for the sake of seeing Catherine Tate.

Meantime a voice from my childhood insists that Dark Shadows be included (the original show).

It's not GREAT, but I enjoy it pretty well. It's good character drama.

Then again, keep in mind this is the opinion of a person who has not seen even one episode of Dr. Who, old or new.

[jeffrey smith]

Then again, keep in mind this is the opinion of a person who has not seen even one episode of Dr. Who, old or new.

Oh, get thee to a DVD store!

There is too much to pick out a specific story or group of stories as the best of "old" Who. But at least watch

the group of stories relating to the search for the Key to Time (this is from the Tom Baker era) or the story arc beginning with Keeper of Traken which marked the transition from Tom Baker to Peter Davison in the role of the Doctor.

Almost all of the Tom Baker--Peter Davison shows were excellent; the show was effectively at its peak during those eras. Pertwee era was nearly as good, but might seem somewhat dated; earlier than that the surviving filmage can be spotty at best, so it's hard to get a good idea of what those shows were like. There was a change during Colin Baker's tenure, and only some of it was for the better; McCoy, the Seventh Doctor, was nearly as good as Tom Baker, but didn't get to stay in the role long enough before they cancelled the show.

Whichever of the stories you begin with, you're almost certain to enjoy it--intelligent science fiction with a British twist. The Key for Time series, for instance, starts off with a story that's a take off from Prisoner of Zenda (several of the shows were actually retellings of famous stories such as Frankenstein) and ends with the Doctor foiling the Black Guardian's plans by recognizing the ethical dilemma being posed to him.

[emb021]

In terms of shows CURRENTLY being produced, these are what I make a point of watching:

* NCIS. I enjoyed JAG, and have been watching NCIS from day one. Will probably take a look at the new NCIS spin-off show. An interesting set of characters and good storylines.

* Burn Notice. Another interesting show. Actually filmed in my area. I find that while its about spies and such, that the main characters are, by and large, have strong moral values. You have a burned spy, his ex-military buddy (also an ex-spy of some sort), and the spy's ex-IRA operative. While trying to get back into the spy game, he helps people who need it. The three are very loyal to one another, and go to any lengths to help each other out. There is a line they don't want to cross. And often if they are helping someone for the right reasons, seem to do it without pay.

* Mythbusters. Science rules!! Instead of just believing all kinds of nonsense, lets actually TEST it out. Its amazing that this show is still going strong.

* L&O: SVU and CI. I actually like Criminal Intent better, mainly because of the actors.

* Eureka. A fun little sf show over on Sci-Fi (sorry, SyFy). The characters and their interaction is half the fun.

other shows I'll usually watch: Mentalist, Psych, Monk. I discovered the Mentalist only recently, as it follows NCIS. A kind of more serious version of Psych. A fake psychic (aren't they all), has kind of reformed and is a police consultant. Its clear he's just a realy good observer and has no powers. Psych is a more fun version of that. Monk is another interesting show. I hope they can resolve the story about who killed his wife.

[BaalChatzaf]

* Eureka. A fun little sf show over on Sci-Fi (sorry, SyFy). The characters and their interaction is half the fun.

other shows I'll usually watch: Mentalist, Psych, Monk. I discovered the Mentalist only recently, as it follows NCIS. A kind of more serious version of Psych. A fake psychic (aren't they all), has kind of reformed and is a police consultant. Its clear he's just a realy good observer and has no powers. Psych is a more fun version of that. Monk is another interesting show. I hope they can resolve the story about who killed his wife.

I prefer Warehouse 13 to Eureka, but that is a matter of taste.

Monk is a very funny show. Monk has OCD along with some Aspergian characteristics. He is my kind of a guy.

Ba'al Chatzaf

Edited August 11, 2009 by BaalChatzaf

[Backlighting]

2 of my favorites are CSI Miami and Star Trek Next Generation.

[emb021]

* Eureka. A fun little sf show over on Sci-Fi (sorry, SyFy). The characters and their interaction is half the fun.

other shows I'll usually watch: Mentalist, Psych, Monk. I discovered the Mentalist only recently, as it follows NCIS. A kind of more serious version of Psych. A fake psychic (aren't they all), has kind of reformed and is a police consultant. Its clear he's just a realy good observer and has no powers. Psych is a more fun version of that. Monk is another interesting show. I hope they can resolve the story about who killed his wife.

I prefer Warehouse 13 to Eureka, but that is a matter of taste.

I forgot to mention W13. I've started to watch it and have been enjoying it. A fun, 'secret history' vibe to it that fun. Hasn't been enough episodes to say its better then Eureka, but overall good.

A show that came out last year that I was hoping would be continued was Middleman. But ABC-Family didn't even bother to do any re-runs, and they didn't renew it. Stupid. Without any re-runs or the like, there is no way for a quirky show like that to gain an audience. I'll be getting the DVD set, I think.

[emb021]

- King of the Hill (Best animated show I have ever seen. The humor is very organic and down-to-Earth. Unlike other shows like Family Guy or South Park which can be downright malicious, this show never laughs at people: it only laughs at their flaws. The humor, thus, is benevolent. Any other show would have turned Hank Hill into a cheap five-second joke, but here, he is a bit of an elevated figure. Great in his flaws, but greater in his virtues. All of the characterizations are well-done. The opening theme is awesome. The sense of life is life-affirming.)

KofH ended this year.

Judge is working on a new animated series, The Goode Family, that sounds interesting. A kind of over the top liberal/PC family.

Michael Brown

[Chris Grieb]

CSI Miami is my favorite CSI. Harirato Crane has a great moral sense and love for justice.

I like "The Mentalist" much more "Psych". I find James Roday very annoying. Dule Hill who was very enjoyable on "West Wing" seems to embarrassed to be on "Psych".