Favorite Novels Not Written By Ayn Rand

[kiaer.ts]

Yes, I enjoyed the Narnia books (read them at 12) but found them juvenile even then, and find them unreadable now. Tolkien's quite a bit better. Plus you are a girl, and there seems to be some gender correlation.

Gender correlation between what?

I don't know that it explains anything, or that I believe it, but I have read repeatedly that liking Dr. Who, Tolkien, and Monty Python is a "guy thing." Could just as well be an Anglophile thing. I happen to be a huge fan of all three.

I don't know. I thought Life of Brian was a cute movie. Can't say I liked the other movies or the TV show, though.

As for Dr. Who, I never watched it.

Either way, though, it has nothing to do with gender. I know women who love Tolkien and Monty Python. I know men who hate the same things. Those people you read are full of it.

The only thing that made me wonder if there were something to the claim was that all the female Tolkien fans I knew in college were wiccan lesbian Kate Bush fans.

[Christopher]

Ted,

Dr. Who, Monty Python, Tolkien... where have you been all my life! I've needed a friend like you living nearby to discuss this stuff together. Perhaps you also know Red Dwarf.

Les Miserables is certainly fantastic (actually, honestly, I've only seen the movie and musical, but what a story).

Golden Compass trilogy is wonderful.

One of my favorite authors is Roger Zelazny. He really nails interaction between consciousness and parts of the subconscious - Today We Choose Faces is just such a story. The Amber novels are other good stories. I am really into understanding how different states/stages of consciousness see different realities. The Matrix trilogy, for example, is incredible.

Chris

[kiaer.ts]

Ted,

Dr. Who, Monty Python, Tolkien... where have you been all my life! I've needed a friend like you living nearby to discuss this stuff together. Perhaps you also know Red Dwarf.

Les Miserables is certainly fantastic (actually, honestly, I've only seen the movie and musical, but what a story).

Golden Compass trilogy is wonderful.

One of my favorite authors is Roger Zelazny. He really nails interaction between consciousness and parts of the subconscious - Today We Choose Faces is just such a story. The Amber novels are other good stories. I am really into understanding how different states/stages of consciousness see different realities. The Matrix trilogy, for example, is incredible.

Chris

Come, now, there are 34 million people in California.

I am not a fan of Red Dwarf, it was lame as humor and nil as sci-fi. I do not like and will not watch any tv show or movie whose plot is based on reality being an illusion. I don't see epistemology as a parlor game nor insanity as a form of entertainment. Reality as illusion is a lazy plot device, it allows the writer to pull any rabbit out of his ass that he likes, and there is no way for the character ever to know that he has returned to the real reality.

[Michelle]

Les Miserables is certainly fantastic (actually, honestly, I've only seen the movie and musical, but what a story).

Read the book. No adaptation has anything on it.

[Michelle]

Yes, I enjoyed the Narnia books (read them at 12) but found them juvenile even then, and find them unreadable now. Tolkien's quite a bit better. Plus you are a girl, and there seems to be some gender correlation.

Gender correlation between what?

I don't know that it explains anything, or that I believe it, but I have read repeatedly that liking Dr. Who, Tolkien, and Monty Python is a "guy thing." Could just as well be an Anglophile thing. I happen to be a huge fan of all three.

I don't know. I thought Life of Brian was a cute movie. Can't say I liked the other movies or the TV show, though.

As for Dr. Who, I never watched it.

Either way, though, it has nothing to do with gender. I know women who love Tolkien and Monty Python. I know men who hate the same things. Those people you read are full of it.

The only thing that made me wonder if there were something to the claim was that all the female Tolkien fans I knew in college were wiccan lesbian Kate Bush fans.

Oh god, this pagan religion revival thing makes me nauseous.

[kiaer.ts]

Yes, I enjoyed the Narnia books (read them at 12) but found them juvenile even then, and find them unreadable now. Tolkien's quite a bit better. Plus you are a girl, and there seems to be some gender correlation.

Gender correlation between what?

I don't know that it explains anything, or that I believe it, but I have read repeatedly that liking Dr. Who, Tolkien, and Monty Python is a "guy thing." Could just as well be an Anglophile thing. I happen to be a huge fan of all three.

I don't know. I thought Life of Brian was a cute movie. Can't say I liked the other movies or the TV show, though.

As for Dr. Who, I never watched it.

Either way, though, it has nothing to do with gender. I know women who love Tolkien and Monty Python. I know men who hate the same things. Those people you read are full of it.

The only thing that made me wonder if there were something to the claim was that all the female Tolkien fans I knew in college were wiccan lesbian Kate Bush fans.

Oh god, this pagan religion revival thing makes me nauseous.

Watch it, you're talking to a Born-Again Celt.

[Michelle]

Yes, I enjoyed the Narnia books (read them at 12) but found them juvenile even then, and find them unreadable now. Tolkien's quite a bit better. Plus you are a girl, and there seems to be some gender correlation.

Gender correlation between what?

I don't know that it explains anything, or that I believe it, but I have read repeatedly that liking Dr. Who, Tolkien, and Monty Python is a "guy thing." Could just as well be an Anglophile thing. I happen to be a huge fan of all three.

I don't know. I thought Life of Brian was a cute movie. Can't say I liked the other movies or the TV show, though.

As for Dr. Who, I never watched it.

Either way, though, it has nothing to do with gender. I know women who love Tolkien and Monty Python. I know men who hate the same things. Those people you read are full of it.

The only thing that made me wonder if there were something to the claim was that all the female Tolkien fans I knew in college were wiccan lesbian Kate Bush fans.

Oh god, this pagan religion revival thing makes me nauseous.

Watch it, you're talking to a Born-Again Celt.

Cute.

[kiaer.ts]

I should add The Sparrow by Mary Doria Russell, a Catholic first contact sci-fi novel. Off to buy some books!

[kiaer.ts]

I should add The Sparrow by Mary Doria Russell, a Catholic first contact sci-fi novel. Off to buy some books!

Can anyone say anything positive about Solzhenitsyn, Dorris Lessing, or John Irving?

I bought a copy of four plays by Noel Coward and a copy of the Fountainhead, each for 50c. Shame I just finished The Fountainhead a week ago.

[Selene]

Ted:

Where is this store in NY City.

Adam

[kiaer.ts]

Ted:

Where is this store in NY City.

Adam

Housing Works Cafe on Crosby south Of Houston. Their prices usually beat the Strand by 20%, and just for you there is a book fair tomorrow and Sunday with an additional 30% off all merchandise.

Take the B&D to Houston or the 6 to Bleecker.

They have a 50c shelf and eight $1 shelves.

They have a small wall full of unreleased proof copy books for $3 each. Most upmarket ppbk for $3. Incredible finds sometimes on the $1 shelves. This place is a gem.

[Selene]

Thank you Ted.

Being away from my beloved city for almost 5 years makes me re-check my "map" of the greatest city on the face of the earth.

We went down to little Italy the weekend before last and my heavens - this little "feast" has become bad Kafka scene from a bastard merger of the Wayne County Fair's arcade alley and a restaurant row in any tourist area.

Sickening.

Adam

[kiaer.ts]

Thank you Ted.

Being away from my beloved city for almost 5 years makes me re-check my "map" of the greatest city on the face of the earth.

We went down to little Italy the weekend before last and my heavens - this little "feast" has become bad Kafka scene from a bastard merger of the Wayne County Fair's arcade alley and a restaurant row in any tourist area.

Sickening.

Adam

Where do you live now?

Also, first w/end of the month is 30% every month, but the store is packed wall to wall.

[Selene]

Ted:

Across the Hudson in NJ - quick rail trip into Penn. or the Port Authority. I hit the city, depending on clients up to a few times a week.

But since it has been only 7 months up here and I had a lot of restructuring to do with the larger market to farm.

Adam

[Xray]

The Brothers Karamazov by F. Dostojevskij

Middlemarch by G. Eliot

Edited June 7, 2009 by Xray

[DavidMcK]

As far as Solzhenitsyn is concerned, I read his two most famous works years ago; 'One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich' and 'The Gulag Archipeligo', and they were interesting. Spoiler warning: One day was fascinating because of the pointlessness of all of Ivan's work in one day, where basically the prisoners are building a prison to hold more prisoners, who work to build ...etc. The point is that these people would be productive and happier in society building something useful, the theme could be called 'What a waste'. The Gulag was frightening and depressing; what I recall most vividly is that Solzhenistsyn was sitting there in the room with the person who was deciding his sentence, choosing between 10 years and 20 years, and obviously enjoying toying with him. It should be mentioned that Ayn Rand didn't like his writing because of his religiosity, and the Gulag mentions her teacher (see Sciabarra for details).

[kiaer.ts]

Can anyone say anything positive about Solzhenitsyn, Dorris Lessing, or John Irving?

[Michelle]

Can anyone say anything positive about Solzhenitsyn, Dorris Lessing, or John Irving?

I could have said that Lessing is an uppity communist who wrote fourth-rate science fiction, but you only asked for positive comments.

[kiaer.ts]

Can anyone say anything positive about Solzhenitsyn, Dorris Lessing, or John Irving?

I could have said that Lessing is an uppity communist who wrote fourth-rate science fiction, but you only asked for positive comments.

Well, she is dead.

[Michelle]

Can anyone say anything positive about Solzhenitsyn, Dorris Lessing, or John Irving?

I could have said that Lessing is an uppity communist who wrote fourth-rate science fiction, but you only asked for positive comments.

Well, she is dead.

Sorry.

Was an uppity communist who wrote fourth-rate science fiction.

[kiaer.ts]

Can anyone say anything positive about Solzhenitsyn, Dorris Lessing, or John Irving?

I could have said that Lessing is an uppity communist who wrote fourth-rate science fiction, but you only asked for positive comments.

Well, she is dead.

Sorry.

Was an uppity communist who wrote fourth-rate science fiction.

In Honors English in college I had to read a novel (short story?) by her about some disaster that made everyone disappear and wind to blow through the ruins left behind. I kept waiting for something to happen. Was it Christopher Hitchens, or A.N.Wilson who badmouthed her?

[Michelle]

Can anyone say anything positive about Solzhenitsyn, Dorris Lessing, or John Irving?

I could have said that Lessing is an uppity communist who wrote fourth-rate science fiction, but you only asked for positive comments.

Well, she is dead.

Sorry.

Was an uppity communist who wrote fourth-rate science fiction.

In Honors English in college I had to read a novel (short story?) by her about some disaster that made everyone disappear and wind to blow through the ruins left behind. I kept waiting for something to happen. Was it Christopher Hitchens, or A.N.Wilson who badmouthed her?

Hah. Have you read Cormac McCarthy's The Road? It's, like, 300 pages, and the first 30 pages was just the same thing. Kid and his father walk through wasteland. Find empty stores. Nothing happens. Wash, rinse, repeat. On and on and on. I got sick of it and threw the book down and haven't gone back since. I don't really think I'm missing anything. They run into some cannibals later into the book, I believe.

[kiaer.ts]

Hah. Have you read Cormac McCarthy's The Road? It's, like, 300 pages, and the first 30 pages was just the same thing. Kid and his father walk through wasteland. Find empty stores. Nothing happens. Wash, rinse, repeat. On and on and on. I got sick of it and threw the book down and haven't gone back since. I don't really think I'm missing anything. They run into some cannibals later into the book, I believe.

No. I give authors 30pp to get to the plot. Heinlein's plots always start by the second page, sometimes the first sentence. I started and put down The Fountainhead three times over a few months before I got into it. I was going to read it before AS so as to be in chronological order. I couldn't. I was laughing out loud in AS as soon as Dagny had to talk to Jim about business, and was hooked. The Fountainhead doesn't really get going until p 100. Then it's rip-roaring from there.

Why so much angst about the rape scene? I wonder why people don't make more of Roark and Wynand's affair. The cruise is the risque part of the novel.

[Alfonso Jones]

I should add The Sparrow by Mary Doria Russell, a Catholic first contact sci-fi novel. Off to buy some books!

Can anyone say anything positive about Solzhenitsyn, Dorris Lessing, or John Irving?

I bought a copy of four plays by Noel Coward and a copy of the Fountainhead, each for 50c. Shame I just finished The Fountainhead a week ago.

I'll speak about John Irving. He is an incredibly frustrating author. He can make words sing. And he uses that finely crafted ability to write stories about nothing, stories which are outright unpleasant to read.

Bill P

[Michelle]

Hah. Have you read Cormac McCarthy's The Road? It's, like, 300 pages, and the first 30 pages was just the same thing. Kid and his father walk through wasteland. Find empty stores. Nothing happens. Wash, rinse, repeat. On and on and on. I got sick of it and threw the book down and haven't gone back since. I don't really think I'm missing anything. They run into some cannibals later into the book, I believe.

No. I give authors 30pp to get to the plot. Heinlein's plots always start by the second page, sometimes the first sentence. I started and put down The Fountainhead three times over a few months before I got into it. I was going to read it before AS so as to be in chronological order. I couldn't. I was laughing out loud in AS as soon as Dagny had to talk to Jim about business, and was hooked. The Fountainhead doesn't really get going until p 100. Then it's rip-roaring from there.

See, the first 500 or so pages of The Fountainhead are enthralling for me, but then you get to this point where it seems like the book is nothing but Roark taking a cruise and Keating being rather pathetic.

Although my favorite scene, by far, does occur in this last portion of the book. Actually, it's a cap on my favorite storyline: How Catherine Halsey is slowly corrupted by Ellsworth Toohey. It's absolutely painful to read, though. You feel helpless, because Catherine is so innocent to what Ellsworth is doing to her, but you know EXACTLY what he is doing. That final scene is just absolutely heartbreaking, and features some of the book's best writing. I've never felt so deflated in my life while reading a book as I was after reading that scene.

AS has too many long segments which bore me to tears. The worst is the magical valley of Galt clones where everything is happy and perfect and ultra-capitalistic. The whole section was corny beyond belief.