Why I love war, especially a just war

[BaalChatzaf]

War has the following virtues.

1. It requires that a person put his life on the line for that which he loves most. Warriors fight primarily for themselves and the ones they love. The rest of us benefit incidentally. War promotes the virtues of courage and bravery, and to care for those who care for one. Soldiers ultimately fight for themselves and their brothers beside them. It is the ultimate in male bonding. It is more sublime than homoerotic bonding. HOOah! Think of King Henry V's speech to the troops. Band of Brothers! HOOah!

2. War promotes technological and scientific progress, even more than the profit motive in the market place. Almost all of the goodies you enjoy flow from war or preparation for war.

3. A just war is the fight of good over evil. If victory comes, it is the highest celebration of justice. Such a war calls to the heart of every good man.

4. A war fought in response to unjust force is the highest form of revenge. Revenge is sweet.

5. There are women who are capable warriors too, but war is the ultimate Guy Thing. It is the quintessence of manhood. HOOah!

My father (of blessed memory, may peace be upon him) taught me not to get mad, but to get even.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[bmacwilliam]

War has the following virtues.

1. It requires that a person put his life on the line for that which he loves most. Warriors fight primarily for themselves and the ones they love. The rest of us benefit incidentally. War promotes the virtues of courage and bravery, and to care for those who care for one. Soldiers ultimately fight for themselves and their brothers beside them. It is the ultimate in male bonding. It is more sublime than homoerotic bonding. HOOah! Think of King Henry V's speech to the troops. Band of Brothers! HOOah!

2. War promotes technological and scientific progress, even more than the profit motive in the market place. Almost all of the goodies you enjoy flow from war or preparation for war.

3. A just war is the fight of good over evil. If victory comes, it is the highest celebration of justice. Such a war calls to the heart of every good man.

4. A war fought in response to unjust force is the highest form of revenge. Revenge is sweet.

5. There are women who are capable warriors too, but war is the ultimate Guy Thing. It is the quintessence of manhood. HOOah!

My father (of blessed memory, may peace be upon him) taught me not to get mad, but to get even.

Ba'al Chatzaf

That sounds just about right....from a 12-year-old boy's perspective playing with his GI Joe's in the sandbox.

[BaalChatzaf]

That sounds just about right....from a 12-year-old boy's perspective playing with his GI Joe's in the sandbox.

You are close. WW2 ended when I was 9 years old. My ambition was to be a bombardier, like my uncle, and drop h.e. and incendiary ordinance on the heads of my enemies. I was probably the only person who wept on V.E. day.

The twelve year old boy grew up and helped to design and build tactical weapons and weapons of mass destruction. Health factors prevented me from becoming a warrior so I became weapon-smith to the warriors. If I could not throw the spear in battle I made the spear for those who could. Several of my "babies" have killed thousands of enemy. I wear their scalps on my belt proudly. If I could not shed blood personally, I helped those who could. I have blood on my hands up to my elbows and I am proud of every drop. My only regret is that I did not do it first hand.

In my next life I will be either Conan the Barbarian or Mr. Spock.

Ba'al Chatzaf

Conan, what is best.

To crush the enemy, to drive him before us and to hear the lamentations of his women.

Yes. That is Good.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Bob K,

How many times are you going to post the same thing?

That is almost word-for-word the same post you have made at least 25 times. Probably more.

Michael

[anonrobt]

Bob K,

How many times are you going to post the same thing?

That is almost word-for-word the same post you have made at least 25 times. Probably more.

Michael

Perhaps he's having a Schwarzenegger moment...

[BaalChatzaf]

Bob K,

How many times are you going to post the same thing?

That is almost word-for-word the same post you have made at least 25 times. Probably more.

Michael

Perhaps he's having a Schwarzenegger moment...

My life is a Conan Moment. I know What is Best.

Maybe I have an Ahhnoldt Moment as well. A long time ago my wife inquired what sort of work I did. I said I make weapons of destruction. She said: you mean you make stuff that kills people? I said: Yes. But they are all baahhhdt.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[Martin Radwin]

War has the following virtues.

1. It requires that a person put his life on the line for that which he loves most. Warriors fight primarily for themselves and the ones they love. The rest of us benefit incidentally. War promotes the virtues of courage and bravery, and to care for those who care for one. Soldiers ultimately fight for themselves and their brothers beside them. It is the ultimate in male bonding. It is more sublime than homoerotic bonding. HOOah! Think of King Henry V's speech to the troops. Band of Brothers! HOOah!

2. War promotes technological and scientific progress, even more than the profit motive in the market place. Almost all of the goodies you enjoy flow from war or preparation for war.

3. A just war is the fight of good over evil. If victory comes, it is the highest celebration of justice. Such a war calls to the heart of every good man.

4. A war fought in response to unjust force is the highest form of revenge. Revenge is sweet.

5. There are women who are capable warriors too, but war is the ultimate Guy Thing. It is the quintessence of manhood. HOOah!

My father (of blessed memory, may peace be upon him) taught me not to get mad, but to get even.

Ba'al Chatzaf

"War don't enoble men. Turns em into dogs. Poisons the soul." --- From "The Thin Red Line"

"War is just a racket. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small inside group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses.

I believe in adequate defense at the coastline and nothing else. If a nation comes over here to fight, then we'll fight. The trouble with America is that when the dollar only earns 6 percent over here, then it gets restless and goes overseas to get 100 percent. Then the flag follows the dollar and the soldiers follow the flag.

I wouldn't go to war again as I have done to protect some lousy investment of the bankers. There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.

There isn't a trick in the racketeering bag that the military gang is blind to. It has its "finger men" to point out enemies, its "muscle men" to destroy enemies, its "brain men" to plan war preparations, and a "Big Boss" Super-Nationalistic-Capitalism.

It may seem odd for me, a military man to adopt such a comparison. Truthfulness compels me to. I spent thirty- three years and four months in active military service as a member of this country's most agile military force, the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from Second Lieutenant to Major-General. And during that period, I spent most of my time being a high class muscle- man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism.

I suspected I was just part of a racket at the time. Now I am sure of it. Like all the members of the military profession, I never had a thought of my own until I left the service. My mental faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the orders of higher-ups. This is typical with everyone in the military service.

I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912 (where have I heard that name before?). I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested.

During those years, I had, as the boys in the back room would say, a swell racket. Looking back on it, I feel that I could have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents."

Major General Smedley Butler, USMC

[BaalChatzaf]

War has the following virtues.

1. It requires that a person put his life on the line for that which he loves most. Warriors fight primarily for themselves and the ones they love. The rest of us benefit incidentally. War promotes the virtues of courage and bravery, and to care for those who care for one. Soldiers ultimately fight for themselves and their brothers beside them. It is the ultimate in male bonding. It is more sublime than homoerotic bonding. HOOah! Think of King Henry V's speech to the troops. Band of Brothers! HOOah!

2. War promotes technological and scientific progress, even more than the profit motive in the market place. Almost all of the goodies you enjoy flow from war or preparation for war.

3. A just war is the fight of good over evil. If victory comes, it is the highest celebration of justice. Such a war calls to the heart of every good man.

4. A war fought in response to unjust force is the highest form of revenge. Revenge is sweet.

5. There are women who are capable warriors too, but war is the ultimate Guy Thing. It is the quintessence of manhood. HOOah!

My father (of blessed memory, may peace be upon him) taught me not to get mad, but to get even.

Ba'al Chatzaf

"War don't enoble men. Turns em into dogs. Poisons the soul." --- From "The Thin Red Line"

"War is just a racket. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small inside group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses.

I believe in adequate defense at the coastline and nothing else. If a nation comes over here to fight, then we'll fight. The trouble with America is that when the dollar only earns 6 percent over here, then it gets restless and goes overseas to get 100 percent. Then the flag follows the dollar and the soldiers follow the flag.

I wouldn't go to war again as I have done to protect some lousy investment of the bankers. There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.

There isn't a trick in the racketeering bag that the military gang is blind to. It has its "finger men" to point out enemies, its "muscle men" to destroy enemies, its "brain men" to plan war preparations, and a "Big Boss" Super-Nationalistic-Capitalism.

It may seem odd for me, a military man to adopt such a comparison. Truthfulness compels me to. I spent thirty- three years and four months in active military service as a member of this country's most agile military force, the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from Second Lieutenant to Major-General. And during that period, I spent most of my time being a high class muscle- man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism.

I suspected I was just part of a racket at the time. Now I am sure of it. Like all the members of the military profession, I never had a thought of my own until I left the service. My mental faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the orders of higher-ups. This is typical with everyone in the military service.

I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912 (where have I heard that name before?). I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested.

During those years, I had, as the boys in the back room would say, a swell racket. Looking back on it, I feel that I could have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents."

Major General Smedley Butler, USMC

This is about an unjust war, isn't it? Taking over Mexico and Guatemala had nothing to do with protecting the folks back home.

How is this in any way like the war against the Fascists (German and Japanese)?

How is this anything like the Six Day War (which was a war to prevent anihilation)?

There are only two excuses for making war. Defense of ones society and revenge for an unjust attack.

If thine enemy smite thee on thy cheek, decapitate him and take a dump down his severed neck.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

This is about an unjust war, isn't it?

Bob,

Actually no. It's mostly WWI.

I'm surprised you have not read passages from War is a Racket. It's pretty famous. Here is Wikipedia entry on Butler and the opening of the article:

Smedley Butler

Smedley Darlington Butler (July 30, 1881 – June 21, 1940), nicknamed "The Fighting Quaker" and "Old Gimlet Eye", was a Major General in the U.S. Marine Corps and, at the time of his death, the most decorated Marine in U.S. history.

During his 34 years of Marine Corps service, Butler was awarded numerous medals for heroism including the Marine Corps Brevet Medal (the highest Marine medal at its time for officers), and subsequently the Medal of Honor twice. Notably, he is one of only 19 people to be twice awarded the Medal of Honor, and one of only three to be awarded a Marine Corps Brevet Medal and a Medal of Honor, and the only person to be awarded a Marine Corps Brevet Medal and a Medal of Honor for two different actions.

In addition to his military career, Smedley Butler was noted for his outspoken anti-interventionist views, and his book War is a Racket. His book was one of the first works describing the workings of the military-industrial complex and after retiring from service, he became a popular speaker at meetings organized by veterans, pacifists and church groups in the 1930s.

Butler ultimately took his revulsion too far and skirted on the edge of quackery, but he said a lot that is spot on before that.

The only consumer of weapons of mass destruction is a government or a group of people aspiring to be a government. The profiteers of such commerce, however, are all individuals.

Michael

[Ross Barlow]

Bob,

War sucks. It is an intrinsic human trait that is evil. It damages not only innocents but it taints all participants as well as the victors. I still have horrific nightmares after 40 years. I do agree with you about the need for military might for self-defense, but this is never usually held in any kind of rational check, and it ends up being used inappropriately for political ends. And I also realize that you have specified a "just war."

Martin Radwin,

Thank you so much for quoting the great Marine legend, Smedley Butler from his book, *War is a Racket.* Butler was a bold man, both on and off the field of battle. Below, I hope a bit to add to his honor by telling how his own country betrayed him recently.

In USMC boot camp, c. 1968, we recited, after lights-out, either “Good night Smedley Butler, wherever you are,” or “Good night…” to other Marine Corps legendary heroes such as Chesty Puller or Dan Daley. (It was part of our indoctrination.) Their bravery encouraged us and inspired us, goading us on to be harder and fiercer when we ourselves would someday face a foe on the fields of a deadly fight.

Smedley Butler was always within the Big Three of Marines most honored within the Corps’ history. Therefore, the fact that he was snubbed a few years ago by the US government is telling.

Sometime around 2005 or so, the US Postal Service issued a commemorative stamp issue of four great US Marines. Smedley Butler was notoriously left out of it. This is incomprehensible without factoring in political machinations.

The USPS commemorative issue’s four Marines were:

1. Chesty Puller. He was an incredible warrior, and the most highly decorated Marine in history. WWII, Korea. When told that the Chinese communist forces had his unit completely surrounded at the Chosen Reservoir, he exclaimed: “Now we’ve got those sons of bitches right where we want them; we can shoot in every direction now!” He was fierce, inspiring, and he was one of the greatest heroes in the Corps.

2. Dan Daly earned two Medals of Honor, one in the Boxer Rebellion [and, yes, it is a legitimate moral question as to what in the hell were we doing in China] and one in Central America [same legitimate question as above]. In WWI France he led a charge over the top of the trench, looking back at his men and encouraging them to follow by shouting, “Come on, you sons of bitches, do you want to live forever?” One hell of a fighting man.

3. . “Manila” John Basilone, who received a Medal of Honor in the battle of Guadalcanal. He fought with extraordinary bravery, saving his comrades and smashing the enemy, helping to put Japan in retreat. He could have gone back to the States to sell War Bonds, but he wanted to remain on the front lines with his comrades. He was later killed on the beach at Iwo Jima.

4. This choice was puzzling: Gen. John Lejeune. What the hell? Yes, he commanded large USMC forces and was a terrific administrator, but was he a top-notch Marine combat hero? It just never made sense for a commemorative stamp to place him among the top four Corps heroes. Especially in the conspicuous absence of Smedley Butler.

Smedley Butler won two Medals of Honor and was an amazing example and an inspiration to us for generations. He marched his men into Veracruz, Mexico [again, why were we there?]. But because he was only newly assigned to this unit, it was a bad situation of the men not knowing their CO. Butler laid all doubts to rest in the first action. He led the head of the column as they marched in formation down Veracruz’s main street, himself only armed with pistol, sword and walking stick. Whenever a Mexican sniper took a shot – and it was always at this conspicuous officer in the front of his column – Butler would immediately point out the sniper’s loft with his walking stick, and Marines would deploy to flush them out. Another shot right at him, and Butler would point out this new position without breaking stride. Again and again. Needless to say, the men of his new unit loved him. Esprit de corps. Semper Fidelis. This was one of the top legendary heroes to the Corps.

So, why snub him in this USPS stamp issue? Of course, it was because after retirement he dared to criticize the government’s military expeditionary adventures on behalf of US corporations into the poorer sections of the world. Butler complained that he had been used as “muscle” for US business interests at the expense of native peoples. He had criticized the government, and they are still angry with his memory.

To leave him out of the top-four in this commemorative stamp issue was sacrilege.

.

-Ross Barlow.

[BaalChatzaf]

Bob,

War sucks. It is an intrinsic human trait that is evil. It damages not only innocents but it taints all participants as well as the victors. I still have horrific nightmares after 40 years. I do agree with you about the need for military might for self-defense, but this is never usually held in any kind of rational check, and it ends up being used inappropriately for political ends. And I also realize that you have specified a "just war."

Martin Radwin,

Thank you so much for quoting the great Marine legend, Smedley Butler from his book, *War is a Racket.* Butler was a bold man, both on and off the field of battle. Below, I hope a bit to add to his honor by telling how his own country betrayed him recently.

In USMC boot camp, c. 1968, we recited, after lights-out, either “Good night Smedley Butler, wherever you are,” or “Good night…” to other Marine Corps legendary heroes such as Chesty Puller or Dan Daley. (It was part of our indoctrination.) Their bravery encouraged us and inspired us, goading us on to be harder and fiercer when we ourselves would someday face a foe on the fields of a deadly fight.

Smedley Butler was always within the Big Three of Marines most honored within the Corps’ history. Therefore, the fact that he was snubbed a few years ago by the US government is telling.

Sometime around 2005 or so, the US Postal Service issued a commemorative stamp issue of four great US Marines. Smedley Butler was notoriously left out of it. This is incomprehensible without factoring in political machinations.

The USPS commemorative issue’s four Marines were:

1. Chesty Puller. He was an incredible warrior, and the most highly decorated Marine in history. WWII, Korea. When told that the Chinese communist forces had his unit completely surrounded at the Chosen Reservoir, he exclaimed: “Now we’ve got those sons of bitches right where we want them; we can shoot in every direction now!” He was fierce, inspiring, and he was one of the greatest heroes in the Corps.

2. Dan Daly earned two Medals of Honor, one in the Boxer Rebellion [and, yes, it is a legitimate moral question as to what in the hell were we doing in China] and one in Central America [same legitimate question as above]. In WWI France he led a charge over the top of the trench, looking back at his men and encouraging them to follow by shouting, “Come on, you sons of bitches, do you want to live forever?” One hell of a fighting man.

3. . “Manila” John Basilone, who received a Medal of Honor in the battle of Guadalcanal. He fought with extraordinary bravery, saving his comrades and smashing the enemy, helping to put Japan in retreat. He could have gone back to the States to sell War Bonds, but he wanted to remain on the front lines with his comrades. He was later killed on the beach at Iwo Jima.

4. This choice was puzzling: Gen. John Lejeune. What the hell? Yes, he commanded large USMC forces and was a terrific administrator, but was he a top-notch Marine combat hero? It just never made sense for a commemorative stamp to place him among the top four Corps heroes. Especially in the conspicuous absence of Smedley Butler.

Smedley Butler won two Medals of Honor and was an amazing example and an inspiration to us for generations. He marched his men into Veracruz, Mexico [again, why were we there?]. But because he was only newly assigned to this unit, it was a bad situation of the men not knowing their CO. Butler laid all doubts to rest in the first action. He led the head of the column as they marched in formation down Veracruz’s main street, himself only armed with pistol, sword and walking stick. Whenever a Mexican sniper took a shot – and it was always at this conspicuous officer in the front of his column – Butler would immediately point out the sniper’s loft with his walking stick, and Marines would deploy to flush them out. Another shot right at him, and Butler would point out this new position without breaking stride. Again and again. Needless to say, the men of his new unit loved him. Esprit de corps. Semper Fidelis. This was one of the top legendary heroes to the Corps.

So, why snub him in this USPS stamp issue? Of course, it was because after retirement he dared to criticize the government’s military expeditionary adventures on behalf of US corporations into the poorer sections of the world. Butler complained that he had been used as “muscle” for US business interests at the expense of native peoples. He had criticized the government, and they are still angry with his memory.

To leave him out of the top-four in this commemorative stamp issue was sacrilege.

.

-Ross Barlow.

HOOrah!

War is the greatest human accomplishment, be it just or unjust. Where would we be without Julius Ceasar? Or Alexander the Great. Or King Leonidas? Or Themistocles? Wars and warriors have made civilization possible. Peaceful folk will just sit under their vines and do nothing in particular. Peaceful folk are mostly inert. A Good War puts backbone into the men of a nation. Our own Civil War produced Oliver Wendel Holmes. It also made Walt Whitman a great poet. War makes men manly.

Look at the Swiss. Five hundred years of brotherhood and democracy and what have they produced? The coo coo clock, bankers and chocolate bars. (based on The Third Man ).

What is best? To crush the enemy, drive him before you and hear the lamentations of his women. That is good. (from Conan the Barbarian).

Ba'al Chatzaf

[anonrobt]

Bob,

War sucks. It is an intrinsic human trait that is evil. It damages not only innocents but it taints all participants as well as the victors. I still have horrific nightmares after 40 years. I do agree with you about the need for military might for self-defense, but this is never usually held in any kind of rational check, and it ends up being used inappropriately for political ends. And I also realize that you have specified a "just war."

Martin Radwin,

Thank you so much for quoting the great Marine legend, Smedley Butler from his book, *War is a Racket.* Butler was a bold man, both on and off the field of battle. Below, I hope a bit to add to his honor by telling how his own country betrayed him recently.

In USMC boot camp, c. 1968, we recited, after lights-out, either “Good night Smedley Butler, wherever you are,” or “Good night…” to other Marine Corps legendary heroes such as Chesty Puller or Dan Daley. (It was part of our indoctrination.) Their bravery encouraged us and inspired us, goading us on to be harder and fiercer when we ourselves would someday face a foe on the fields of a deadly fight.

Smedley Butler was always within the Big Three of Marines most honored within the Corps’ history. Therefore, the fact that he was snubbed a few years ago by the US government is telling.

Sometime around 2005 or so, the US Postal Service issued a commemorative stamp issue of four great US Marines. Smedley Butler was notoriously left out of it. This is incomprehensible without factoring in political machinations.

The USPS commemorative issue’s four Marines were:

1. Chesty Puller. He was an incredible warrior, and the most highly decorated Marine in history. WWII, Korea. When told that the Chinese communist forces had his unit completely surrounded at the Chosen Reservoir, he exclaimed: “Now we’ve got those sons of bitches right where we want them; we can shoot in every direction now!” He was fierce, inspiring, and he was one of the greatest heroes in the Corps.

2. Dan Daly earned two Medals of Honor, one in the Boxer Rebellion [and, yes, it is a legitimate moral question as to what in the hell were we doing in China] and one in Central America [same legitimate question as above]. In WWI France he led a charge over the top of the trench, looking back at his men and encouraging them to follow by shouting, “Come on, you sons of bitches, do you want to live forever?” One hell of a fighting man.

3. . “Manila” John Basilone, who received a Medal of Honor in the battle of Guadalcanal. He fought with extraordinary bravery, saving his comrades and smashing the enemy, helping to put Japan in retreat. He could have gone back to the States to sell War Bonds, but he wanted to remain on the front lines with his comrades. He was later killed on the beach at Iwo Jima.

4. This choice was puzzling: Gen. John Lejeune. What the hell? Yes, he commanded large USMC forces and was a terrific administrator, but was he a top-notch Marine combat hero? It just never made sense for a commemorative stamp to place him among the top four Corps heroes. Especially in the conspicuous absence of Smedley Butler.

Smedley Butler won two Medals of Honor and was an amazing example and an inspiration to us for generations. He marched his men into Veracruz, Mexico [again, why were we there?]. But because he was only newly assigned to this unit, it was a bad situation of the men not knowing their CO. Butler laid all doubts to rest in the first action. He led the head of the column as they marched in formation down Veracruz’s main street, himself only armed with pistol, sword and walking stick. Whenever a Mexican sniper took a shot – and it was always at this conspicuous officer in the front of his column – Butler would immediately point out the sniper’s loft with his walking stick, and Marines would deploy to flush them out. Another shot right at him, and Butler would point out this new position without breaking stride. Again and again. Needless to say, the men of his new unit loved him. Esprit de corps. Semper Fidelis. This was one of the top legendary heroes to the Corps.

So, why snub him in this USPS stamp issue? Of course, it was because after retirement he dared to criticize the government’s military expeditionary adventures on behalf of US corporations into the poorer sections of the world. Butler complained that he had been used as “muscle” for US business interests at the expense of native peoples. He had criticized the government, and they are still angry with his memory.

To leave him out of the top-four in this commemorative stamp issue was sacrilege.

.

-Ross Barlow.

HOOrah!

War is the greatest human accomplishment, be it just or unjust. Where would we be without Julius Ceasar? Or Alexander the Great. Or King Leonidas? Or Themistocles? Wars and warriors have made civilization possible. Peaceful folk will just sit under their vines and do nothing in particular. Peaceful folk are mostly inert. A Good War puts backbone into the men of a nation. Our own Civil War produced Oliver Wendel Holmes. It also made Walt Whitman a great poet. War makes men manly.

Look at the Swiss. Five hundred years of brotherhood and democracy and what have they produced? The coo coo clock, bankers and chocolate bars. (based on The Third Man ).

What is best? To crush the enemy, drive him before you and hear the lamentations of his women. That is good. (from Conan the Barbarian).

Ba'al Chatzaf

What to expect but barbarian comments from a barbarian lover...

[BaalChatzaf]

What to expect but barbarian comments from a barbarian lover...

Alexander, Ceaser and Themistocles were no barbarians. Their doings made us what we are.

In addition war requires many of the objectivist virtues: attention to facts and mental focus. And objective is not achieved somehow, it is accomplished by acting according to a plan. There are no blank outs in successful.

When John Galt was seized you will recall that every grown male in Galt's Gulch came to save him, packing heat. It was a commando operation, a kind of war operation. Even Dagny Taggart, peaceful railroad magnate, shed blood for her man.

We would not be an independent nation today if Americans, with French help, had not made British folk bleed profusely. War is good, especially when necessary.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[tjohnson]

Move to the garbage pile.

[Brant Gaede]

Bob gets the blue ribbon for the all time best stupidly ignorant post about war being the greatest human accomplishment.

War enabled Hitler to get away with the industrialized murder of 7 million Jews.

This has become absolutely intolerable.

--Brant

[BaalChatzaf]

Bob gets the blue ribbon for the all time best stupidly ignorant post about war being the greatest human accomplishment.

War enabled Hitler to get away with the industrialized murder of 7 million Jews.

This has become absolutely intolerable.

--Brant

Keep in mind which side won and which side lost. If Leonidas has not held up the Persians at Thermopalae and Themosticles had not sunk the Persians at Salamis you and I would be speaking in Persian or would not exist. A world in which the Persians triumphed would be a world without science and a world with little logic. If the Colonials had not decided to fight the Brits you and I would be toasting Her Royal Majesty the Queen. Both the Revolutionary War and the Civil War produced beneficial outcomes.

I point out the positive side of war. Are you denying that war has a positive side? If you are, you are dead wrong.

Ba'al Chatzaf

Edited March 14, 2009 by BaalChatzaf

[Chris Grieb]

Ross Barlow: Is Smedley Butler the only person to win two Medals of Honor?

Baal: There are some necessary wars. There are a great many that are not necessary.

I'm delighted that Don Juan of Austria won at Lepanto. I am also delighted that the English defeated the Spanish Armada.

I'm glad we are not toasting the Queen. I'm glad the South lost the Civil War.

[Selene]

Chris:

"...he is one of only 19 people to be twice awarded the Medal of Honor, and one of only three to be awarded a Marine Corps Brevet Medal and a Medal of Honor, and the only person to be awarded a Marine Corps Brevet Medal and a Medal of Honor for two different actions."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smedley_Butler

http://www.lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm This is a lot more on "...war is a racket..." concept

Adam

[Selene]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medal_of_Hono...uble_recipients

[Brant Gaede]

Bob gets the blue ribbon for the all time best stupidly ignorant post about war being the greatest human accomplishment.

War enabled Hitler to get away with the industrialized murder of 7 million Jews.

This has become absolutely intolerable.

--Brant

Keep in mind which side won and which side lost. If Leonidas has not held up the Persians at Thermopalae and Themosticles had not sunk the Persians at Salamis you and I would be speaking in Persian or would not exist. A world in which the Persians triumphed would be a world without science and a world with little logic. If the Colonials had not decided to fight the Brits you and I would be toasting Her Royal Majesty the Queen. Both the Revolutionary War and the Civil War produced beneficial outcomes.

I point out the positive side of war. Are you denying that war has a positive side? If you are, you are dead wrong.

The Persians used war so they had to be stopped by war. The Brits were fought by the Colonials because of stupid King George. The Revolutionary War resulted in the French Revolution, Napoleon and the rise of Germany, Prussian education, WWI and WWII and the rise of Communism in Russia = 200,000,000 killed by governments and war especially, in the 20th Century. The Civil War killed 5% of the population and gave us de facto slavery for another 100 years coupled with de jure this and de jure that and a huge class of people trapped by their imagined victimhood and entitlements.

Hey, we're talking about man's greatest invention, remember? You said "war." I'm saying horseshit. A few idiots got together and invented war either to conquer or defend. That's all it took, idiots. I grant you, they may have been smarter than idiocy, but they didn't have to be.

You should think things through before buttering your toast with preposterous statements. You're a fine poster until you start blabbering about war and warriorhood. If there were more than one of you here, I wouldn't be. I can usually tolerate one hand clapping, but this was too much. You are actually celebrating Alexander the Great who ended up as Alexander the Crazy Asshole.

-Brant

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

When Bob talks about war, he is scratching a neurotic itch for attention. He knows he will get it and he always does.

I don't believe for a minute that he means the death of all those Jews in German concentration camps were the result of man's greatest achievement because their lives and suffering and sacrifice were at the proper service of a greater human good. He talks about the glory of inflicting collective destruction, but it only boils down to a pretty lame plea for attention.

He just wants people to talk about Bob. As the saying goes, the squeaky wheel gets the oil.

I also think he doesn't realize that honorable military people like Brant and Ross would walk off a battlefield if they suddenly discovered that his convoluted sense of life were what they were fighting for—to make the world a better place for self-proclaimed sadists like him to wage more war and revel in the suffering they inflicted, and that they were deploying weapons made my him for that sole purpose. I believe they would quit if they had that as their principle inspiration.

As an intellectual warrior, Bob is very competent at shooting himself in the foot and not even knowing it.

This reminds me of a film, but with a twist for accommodating the obvious: What About Bob?

Michael

[anonrobt]

intellectual warrior, Bob is very competent at shooting himself in the foot and not even knowing it.

..............

Diabetics have that problem...

[syrakusos]

That is almost word-for-word the same post you have made at least 25 times. Probably more.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYrlzEUuBIM

[Rich Engle]

Oh my GAWD. Retake a logic 101 class or something.

There are all kinds of virtues displalyed during wars, sure: nobleness, bravery, heroism, even tender mercies.

But war means slaughter and destruction, not only of soldiers, but of innocents.

Find someone orphaned by war, or find a vet that is physically and or mentally fucked out of their minds for the rest of their life and try to sell this one. Try to sell it to their friends and families too, while you're at it.

War=death, and there's always more pointless deaths in wars than the people that actually need to be killed.

Jesus.

[Barbara Branden]

Ba'al;: "Why I love war, especially a just war. .. War promotes the virtues of courage and bravery, and to care for those who care for one."

I cannot discern any difference between this statement and statements made by Hitler and his Nazi thugs, glorifying militarism, destruction, and war. Any Nazi would have been proud to stand shoulder to shoulder with Ba'al and to tell us that he, too, loves war.

Wikepedia reports that the estimated death toll in World War II was roughly 72 million human beings. Civilians killed totaled around 47 million, including 20 million from war-related disease and famine. Total military dead: about 25 million, including deaths in captivity of about 4 million prisoners of war. Axis dead: approximately 11 million; Allied dead: about 61 million .Shall we try for World War !!!, Ba'al, so you can love that, too?

I'm out of this discussion. It's turning my stomach.

Barbara