Definitive movie on!

[galtgulch]

http://blip.tv/file/1356143/ Edited November 28, 2008 by galtgulch

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Sorry, this video has been removed from blip.tv.

[galtgulch]

Sorry, this video has been removed from blip.tv.

Michael,

I just searched for it on youtube.com and here is the link to the result of that search:

http://tinyurl.com/nw7yjg

In case anyone is interested.

www.campaignforliberty.com 9 Jun 2 AM 157,098

g

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Gulch,

I went ahead and found a Google video of the entire thing. But this is not a movie about addiction. It is a movie about drug politics and it appears to be favorable to using marijuana.

The movie is called The Union: the business behind getting high.

There is one thing you should understand about addiction, however. It is not a political condition. It is a personal one.

You can argue until you are blue in the face about the harmlessness of marijuana, but what is mostly consumed today has been genetically altered to induce addiction and craving. That's the dirty little secret no one is talking about in this business, freedom from coercion and all the rest of the jargon.

Until you have had a loved one throwing his or her life away on drugs, you really don't understand. Posting a video like this in a section devoted to people seeking to understand how to get better—how to climb out of hell—shows that you don't understand. Voting for Ron Paul will not cure anyone of addiction.

The problem with thinking in political principles and nothing else is that they are usually paid for with the blood and suffering of others, rarely your own.

To the reader, especially one seeking help,

The movie is here for information purposes. It's about 1 hour and 45 minutes. But if you are here trying to figure out why you lost control of your life, you will not find the answer in it. Go on and inform yourself. You gain nothing by staying ignorant. But realize that you will find some great rationalization in material like this to continue with your problem, to continue using and to continue in the hell of being controlled.

Realize also that there is a solution. You can end the suffering if you seek the right kind of help. (Yes, for this problem you need others.)

May you find serenity. It is achievable. I know because I found mine.

Just for today.

Michael

[Rich Engle]

I agree entirely.

I am not above the occasional puff, but it has to be real mother nature, and not the nasty designer stuff. Addiction can be to anything--food, coffee, writing...

There are positive and negative addictions. But, any addiction means lack of balance in life. All things in moderation. If you can't do that with something, then you have to put it up on the shelf like an old toy. I know good people in the program who traded in one addiction for another--they ended up being addicted to the program itself and I'm not sure which kind of a-hole I'd prefer them to be.

It's really easy to just go outside and look at flowers, the sky, or something. Isn't that enough?

rde

[galtgulch]

Gulch,

I went ahead and found a Google video of the entire thing. But this is not a movie about addiction. It is a movie about drug politics and it appears to be favorable to using marijuana.

The movie is called The Union: the business behind getting high.

<embed id="VideoPlayback" src="http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docid=-6505828760652193840&hl=en&fs=true" style="width:400px;height:326px" allowFullScreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" type="application/x-shockwave-flash"> </embed>

There is one thing you should understand about addiction, however. It is not a political condition. It is a personal one.

You can argue until you are blue in the face about the harmlessness of marijuana, but what is mostly consumed today has been genetically altered to induce addiction and craving. That's the dirty little secret no one is talking about in this business, freedom from coercion and all the rest of the jargon.

Until you have had a loved one throwing his or her life away on drugs, you really don't understand. Posting a video like this in a section devoted to people seeking to understand how to get better—how to climb out of hell—shows that you don't understand. Voting for Ron Paul will not cure anyone of addiction.

The problem with thinking in political principles and nothing else is that they are usually paid for with the blood and suffering of others, rarely your own.

To the reader, especially one seeking help,

The movie is here for information purposes. It's about 1 hour and 45 minutes. But if you are here trying to figure out why you lost control of your life, you will not find the answer in it. Go on and inform yourself. You gain nothing by staying ignorant. But realize that you will find some great rationalization in material like this to continue with your problem, to continue using and to continue in the hell of being controlled.

Realize also that there is a solution. You can end the suffering if you seek the right kind of help. (Yes, for this problem you need others.)

May you find serenity. It is achievable. I know because I found mine.

Just for today.

Michael

Michael et al,

As you know I have posted many things some of which I agree with and some of which I do not agree with. I am opposed to drug addiction and do not advocate that anyone abuse alcohol or tobacco or any of the other drugs which have addiction potential.

I am also opposed to prohibition as I have seen first hand the cruelty of lengthy sentences for individuals who have been caught up in the drug war and were not violent.

The parallels between the current drug war and the prohibition of alcohol of the twenties are so obvious and telling. Hopefully enough citizens will come to understand someday and abolish the irrational drug war legislation.

Our beloved philosopher novelist Ayn Rand smoked cigarettes which proved to be her undoing as it caused her illness and death from lung disease. Still she had her heroes smoke in her novels. Likewise many people enjoy a modicum of alcohol in one or more of its many forms.

Just as it is probably possible to use rather than abuse tobacco and alcohol although each cause hundreds of thousands of deaths a year presumably from excessive use, there is possibly a non addictive habit of use of other drugs such as marijuana.

I consider myself to be something of a naturalist and have enjoyed mountaineering in the Sierra Nevada and other ranges as well as coastal sailing on both coasts all without the alleged enhancements of euphoric agents.

Still a productive member and taxpayer in the establishment who advocates for individual freedom and limited government and the free market.

www.campaignforliberty.com 9 Jun 6 PM 157,173

gulch

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Gulch,

My your life never be touched by addiction, neither personally nor through a loved one.

It's easy to do this invasive preaching stuff on an Internet board. If someday you are really interested in the impact of your message on drug addicts, physically go down to a Narcotics Anonymous meeting and try to preach about drug legislation. There is no doubt in my mind that you will find a chapter near where you live.

You know what you will find? You will find deaf ears, both for and against, if not outright hostility against you as a person.

You know why?

Because you will find people trying to deal with an enormously difficult problem that is a far greater priority to them at the moment than politics. After all, if you're dead, what law could govern you and what freedom could you ever enjoy?

Their enemy—the one that's trying to kill them—isn't a tyrant or encroaching government. It's a drug.

These people are literally fighting for their lives—for freedom from drugs. In their space for this struggle, I suggest you respect that.

That doesn't mean don't preach to them if they will listen. Just preach to them about legislation at other venues.

Michael

[Kat]

WTF??!!?? Pro-pot propaganda in a forum created to help get people away from drugs and drinking... Hey, why don't we throw an all you can eat, drink, smoke, and snort kegger party financed with payday loans as well?

Sheesh! This is smelling stinky enough for the garbage pile. We don't promote recreational drugs in an addiction forum. Too many lives have been ruined by addiction. Potheads are addicts. It is hard enough keeping kids off drugs as it is. Imagine if it were legal.

Pro-pot propaganda undermines our efforts in supporting people who want to recover, so please keep it off Objectivist Living.

Kat

[galtgulch]

Gulch,

My your life never be touched by addiction, neither personally nor through a loved one.

It's easy to do this invasive preaching stuff on an Internet board. If someday you are really interested in the impact of your message on drug addicts, physically go down to a Narcotics Anonymous meeting and try to preach about drug legislation. There is no doubt in my mind that you will find a chapter near where you live.

You know what you will find? You will find deaf ears, both for and against, if not outright hostility against you as a person.

You know why?

Because you will find people trying to deal with an enormously difficult problem that is a far greater priority to them at the moment than politics. After all, if you're dead, what law could govern you and what freedom could you ever enjoy?

Their enemy—the one that's trying to kill them—isn't a tyrant or encroaching government. It's a drug.

These people are literally fighting for their lives—for freedom from drugs. In their space for this struggle, I suggest you respect that.

That doesn't mean don't preach to them if they will listen. Just preach to them about legislation at other venues.

Michael

Michael,

I appreciate your perspective.

I know one or two constituencies which are eager to keep the Drug War going. One is the dealers who are making money and profiting from the fact the drugs cost more when they are illegal. Another is the police and the friendly folks at the ATF agency who would prefer to arrest peaceful possessors than have to go after violent criminals.

I still couldn't tell from your posts here whether you think the drugs should be prohibited as they are today or whether you agree that the Drug War should be ended?

www.campaignforliberty.com 9 Jun 10PM 157,207 and HR1207 the Federal Reserve Transparency Act now has 207 cosponsors including the minority whip and several members of the finance committee. I am particularly tickled to discover that my very own congressman James McGovern of the MA 3RD district has signed on as well. I think my emails which were heavily enlightening regarding the Fed and the fact that support was growing made him realize it was good politics for him to jump on the bandwagon.

17 new cosponsors today alone. Only need 218 altogether to force the bill out of committee onto the House floor for a vote.

www.thomas.gov to follow any bill or to find bills offered by any congressman.

gulch

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Kitten spoke. I listened.

Garbage Pile it is.

This debate has no business being in a section devoted to addicts trying to recover.

Michael

[galtgulch]

Kitten spoke. I listened.

Garbage Pile it is.

This debate has no business being in a section devoted to addicts trying to recover.

Michael

Michael,

Works for me!

gulch

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Gulch,

You mentioned that you were unclear about my stand on anti-drug legislation. That's a fair indirect request. I did want to respond to it, but not here. Since we are here and I don't want to start a new thread just for this, here goes.

If I divorce the reality of what I have lived from political principles, I would be against ant-drug laws on principle. In a certain sense I am against ant-drug laws since I am against big government.

But I know first-hand how addictive some of these substances are. I do not want that kind of stuff within easy access of children. I've seen what it does to both adults and children.

Already without legalization, look at the devastation that occurs with targeted communities in the meth campaigns carried out by illicit drug organizations. I mention meth instead of pot because it is an easy example to illustrate what I am talking about.

If you have not heard about this, look it up. The drug organizations infiltrate productive sites like factories and other places where good decent hard-working people gather and they have their agents offer the meth for free, using a variety of enticements. After the people get hooked, the agents start charging and organized drug dealing gets set up. Then things go to hell. Entire communities have gone down the crapper that way. Examples of this are very easy to find on a Google search. (Nowadays, the problem comes more from local sources than drug cartels since recipes for methamphetamine manufacture are all over the Internet and there are oodles of home-made labs.)

I do not believe legalization would somehow harness the community-destroying power meth, especially once advertising kicks in.

But here's the rub. I don't think being illegal does either. All anti-drug laws do is make it bit harder to get drugs. There is unfair incarceration from these laws just as there is "unfair" overdose from drug use. It's hard to say which is worse.

I do know this. When I was an active addict, this issue of legalization had zero importance to me. Zilch. Nada.

I believe this is the case with most addicts, too.

I was going to get the drugs I wanted. Period. If they were legal, fine. I would go to the store and buy them or shoplift them. If they were illegal, fine, too. I would get them from the drug dealer or make them if I could. Law didn't mean a damn thing other something you have to figure out in order to work around it. Hell, I have even bought (many times) crack cocaine directly from the hands of a cop right out on a city street in broad daylight.

I look at anti-drug laws as a pain in the ass to those who want to get drugs and nothing more. But I think that in many instances, that kind of pain in the ass is far better than the alternative. In other instances, anti-drug laws are tools for little power mongers in law enforcement to abuse their authority. I once read that they do not want the drug war to end because they will then be out of a job. That makes sense. I certainly don't like providing jobs to little power mongers.

When I think about the danger to children, I favor the pain in the ass, but it's still a pain in the ass.

Michael