Michael Stuart Kelly Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 Would a Randian hero belong to a "movement"?Brant,Great call. Something all movement members should ask themselves.To be a movement or not to be a movement. That is the question.I don't care much for movements, myself. Too many mind games and power plays. The last time I tried to get pumped for a movement was with SoloHQ, and look at what a pile of mess that turned out to be.Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 Chris,I happen to like TAS. I have some wonderful memories from being around those folks.I do not consider TAS to be a movement, so maybe that helps me think the issues you raise are not all that important. I only think of TAS as some really good people getting together to study something they all like. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algernonsidney Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 (edited) I do not consider TAS to be a movementWell, what is the movement? How do you decide who is in it and who is not? What is an "active" and an "inactive" Objectivist?I don't know how long you have been involved with TAS. I was making observations. I am curious to hear from others about this.What kind of people are attending their summer seminars? What kind of people attended them in the past? What kind of people attended lectures at NBI? I think these questions are valid.Seminar attendance was rising from its founding up to 1996. The 1995 seminar had about 120. The 1996 seminar had about 200. This was also the first time they went west of the Mississippi River. Since then they have alternated between east and west locations. Attendance also leveled off around 200. I have heard attendance this year was about 150.In summary, who is the Objectivist movement? Edited September 15, 2008 by Chris Baker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Engle Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 (edited) " also noticed that the seminar got older. This is perhaps an even worse trend than the decline of females."No, less chicks is always worse. Let's put it this way-- signing up for the cha-cha class at the next one is going to have even less appeal than it did. I mean, if I went I would for sure taken that class were it offered again, but dance classes are already plagued with an 8-2 dude-chick ratio. I think a lot of the interpersonal stuff would go away if we had more social dances in the movement. I'm not kidding...there's a true source to the endless bickering thing. I remember years ago when I got online--green screen throiugh Case Western and the Cleveland Freenet (which was the first free computer community ever)...there were lit, poetry, and "critique" boards on there. This was when flame warring was de rigeur--it was the wild west, especially over on IRC. You can imagine what I was up to over in the critique department...I was in full ortho-objectivist mode back then (I used to be one, see), and I gave no quarter when it came to reviews of essays, prose, poetry... There was a lot of that kind of thing going on everywhere. So anyway, they finally get together a little soiree and a bunch of these people (most of whom had not met each other, but for their little pocket) showed up. I was a little nervous because, to be sure, I had dispensed quite a bit of tribal justice. I had been particularly savage in the case of Vivian Freeland's poetry. My typical review would be like... "Great, another Hallmark moment from Vivian Freeland." There was no love lost between us.Yeah, went to that thing, changed my opinions on quite a few people, and ended up marrying Vivian.Heh. Get the point?rRehumanize yer bad selfs... Edited September 15, 2008 by Rich Engle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Coates Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 > "Great, another Hallmark moment from Vivian Freeland." There was no love lost between us. Yeah, went to that thing, changed my opinions on quite a few people, and ended up marrying Vivian.All right! That's a nice ending, Rich, thanks for sharing it. It's great to hear of something positive, something very nice that happened.I guess Hallmark moments do happen :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algernonsidney Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 No, less chicks is always worse. Let's put it this way-- signing up for the cha-cha class at the next one is going to have even less appeal than it did. I mean, if I went I would for sure taken that class were it offered again, but dance classes are already plagued with an 8-2 dude-chick ratio.If that is the case, then it seems kind of silly to have dance classes at all. The guys who do not have partners will hate it. The other two will not care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiaer.ts Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 My negative, hypercritical, hectoring, schoolmarm view is conscious, well-considered, and very deliberate. But it is not solely directed at this website. My view of (almost) the entire Objectivist movement is HIGHLY NEGATIVE.Phil. I don't think you could find much here about which to be negative Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Engle Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 If that is the case, then it seems kind of silly to have dance classes at all. The guys who do not have partners will hate it. The other two will not care.Oh shoot, I just realized I wrote it backwards: IN DANCE CLASSES, THE WOMEN OUTNUMBER THE MEN (ALWAYS) BY LIKE 8-2.If I were wanting to find an intelligent, interesting woman, I'd sign up for a ballroom class or go to an open swing dance. It's amazing...Really, for all the jokes I make about the cha-cha class at the annual thing, it's great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algernonsidney Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 Oh shoot, I just realized I wrote it backwards: IN DANCE CLASSES, THE WOMEN OUTNUMBER THE MEN (ALWAYS) BY LIKE 8-2.If I were wanting to find an intelligent, interesting woman, I'd sign up for a ballroom class or go to an open swing dance. It's amazing...Really, for all the jokes I make about the cha-cha class at the annual thing, it's great.I had assumed that you were writing about dance classes at TAS seminars, not dance classes in the real world.I took a lot of dance classes back in Ohio. I found that either men actually outnumbered females. I also found a lot of women who were old enough to be my mother.Take an acting class. You will meet good women there. More importantly, women let down their bitch shields. An acting class forces them to do that. Even more important is that there is no stigma for being there alone. If you go to a dance class alone, women will ask: "Why is this guy alone?" In an acting class, that does not come up. I soon realized that it's easy to understand why so many actors hook up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algernonsidney Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 Phil. I don't think you could find much here about which to be negativeIt's hard to believe now. But back in the late 1990's on We The Living, Ted actually did make a lot of sense. I'm naturally wondering how one can reconcile being a "radical for happiness" and being someone who advocates slaughtering millions of people in the Middle East. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Engle Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 Swing dances are the way to go. There's a huge age range. But anyway, this thread is way past hijack mode... ah well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Engle Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 (edited) More of my paranoid. police-state/New World Order research:From The Daily Paul, 9/14:It Felt Like "Martial Law" in Los Angeles!In my life I have never seen anything like this! My niece got married today. The Wedding festivities ended at midnight. On my way home on the opposite side of the #60 freeway going into Downtown L. A. I see very large trucks w/flashing lights - about 25 to 30 - lined up to form a single-file line for cars to follow to be stopped by at least 2 dozen police! This is on a 5-lane freeway, mind you!Thousands of cars and thousands of unsuspecting people are experiencing for the first time in their lives, the full impact of what a police state is all about this morning, folks! The freeway looks like a parking lot!As I transitioned to the northbound Golden State Frwy, aka the #5 Freeway, which starts at the Canadian border and runs through Washington State, through Oregon and all the way through California to the Mexican border, just before I get to downtown L. A. on my side of the freeway I see the same thing in the distance. Again, lots of trucks w/flashing lights and tons of cars stopping ahead of me to be herded to the checkpoint.So, I quickly and fortunately got off at the very next offramp and tried to get on, again, further up the road. However, there were several arrows on the streets for people to follow - seemingly to take you on a detour to another on ramp - but, no; they only led to more check points!Because I know my city like the back of my hand, I managed to evade the check points by going through neighborhood streets until I could finally get back onto the freeway some distance beyond the checkpoint. I live in Burbank and I couldn’t get onto the northbound Golden State Frwy until I passed Griffith park which is about 3 to 4 miles beyond where the check point started on the freeway on my side (about 6 to 7 miles from where I first noticed the check point on the opposite side of the freeway!)Every single one of those 3 to 4 miles on my side had cars w/mulitple passengers in them and the cars were at a complete stop waiting for their turn to be chuted in like cattle to be asked for their papers (?) and to be questioned by the cops (for possible DUI?). I would say, there were, at least, 3 to 4 and maybe even 5 thousand cars, approximately, on both sides of the checkpoints waiting to get through them. Unbelievable!!Never in my 61 years have I ever seen anything like this before!!I saw at least 25 tow trucks pulling vehicles away from the check point areas. I'm very much in shock and very fortunate to know my way around my city to have avoided what is still going on as I type this message. I had such a wonderful day only to be knocked back to the ugly reality of what is happening to us in our country, Martial Law! IT’S SCARY OUT THERE!! Edited September 17, 2008 by Rich Engle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Radwin Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 More of my paranoid. police-state/New World Order research:From The Daily Paul, 9/14:It Felt Like "Martial Law" in Los Angeles!In my life I have never seen anything like this! My niece got married today. The Wedding festivities ended at midnight. On my way home on the opposite side of the #60 freeway going into Downtown L. A. I see very large trucks w/flashing lights - about 25 to 30 - lined up to form a single-file line for cars to follow to be stopped by at least 2 dozen police! This is on a 5-lane freeway, mind you!Thousands of cars and thousands of unsuspecting people are experiencing for the first time in their lives, the full impact of what a police state is all about this morning, folks! The freeway looks like a parking lot!As I transitioned to the northbound Golden State Frwy, aka the #5 Freeway, which starts at the Canadian border and runs through Washington State, through Oregon and all the way through California to the Mexican border, just before I get to downtown L. A. on my side of the freeway I see the same thing in the distance. Again, lots of trucks w/flashing lights and tons of cars stopping ahead of me to be herded to the checkpoint.So, I quickly and fortunately got off at the very next offramp and tried to get on, again, further up the road. However, there were several arrows on the streets for people to follow - seemingly to take you on a detour to another on ramp - but, no; they only led to more check points!Because I know my city like the back of my hand, I managed to evade the check points by going through neighborhood streets until I could finally get back onto the freeway some distance beyond the checkpoint. I live in Burbank and I couldn’t get onto the northbound Golden State Frwy until I passed Griffith park which is about 3 to 4 miles beyond where the check point started on the freeway on my side (about 6 to 7 miles from where I first noticed the check point on the opposite side of the freeway!)Every single one of those 3 to 4 miles on my side had cars w/mulitple passengers in them and the cars were at a complete stop waiting for their turn to be chuted in like cattle to be asked for their papers (?) and to be questioned by the cops (for possible DUI?). I would say, there were, at least, 3 to 4 and maybe even 5 thousand cars, approximately, on both sides of the checkpoints waiting to get through them. Unbelievable!!Never in my 61 years have I ever seen anything like this before!!I saw at least 25 tow trucks pulling vehicles away from the check point areas. I'm very much in shock and very fortunate to know my way around my city to have avoided what is still going on as I type this message. I had such a wonderful day only to be knocked back to the ugly reality of what is happening to us in our country, Martial Law! IT’S SCARY OUT THERE!!And the frog continues to be slowly boiled. First it was DUI checkpoints, then checkpoints for illegal drugs. Who knows what's next? Checkpoints to check for legal immigration status? Checkpoints to check for unpaid child support? Or unpaid back taxes? Or child pornography stored on people's laptop computers? The possibilities are endless!Meanwhile, we have self-identified objectivists telling us how wonderful the police are, how they are ready to risk their lives to protect us, how they are our benefactors, just like the heroes of Atlas Shrugged, how anger and resentment at this cadre of brownshirts must be motivated by envy for our betters. And, of course, we are nasty, evil people if we use any unkind language to describe our friends in blue who, after all, are only protecting us by pulling us over without cause and searching our cars.Oh well, not to worry. According to the fine folks in our government, the terrorists hate us for our freedom. So it's only logical that, by having the police systematically destroy our freedom, the terrorists will no longer have any reason to hate us. We'll be safe forever from the threat of terrorism, at the mere cost of living in a police state. I guess we should be greatful for a deal like that.Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Engle Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 (edited) Does it become clearer to the skeptics when we see examples of police state-type actions as have been discussed? There is the shock of seeing what we do not wish to see. But it's still visible. Now, there's a lot of knee-jerking going on whenever I bring up Alex Jones (who is at the forefront of revealing truths about globalism, the New World Order, Bilderberg, etc.), but he is just one of many. And, he started out as a documentary filmmaker; he did so because he saw things that scared him to the bone as a free man, and a citizen of a supposedly sovereign nation. Try this: look at this documentary. It's rife with historical links, all kinds of information that puts things together. Try, as in actually indulge me for a moment and watch the whole thing--it's a good primer. Just give it a try, and then apply some good hard Objectivist scrutiny to the facts, as presented. For more fun, consider along with this the current collapse of financial institutions. Just do the work. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=10...62261&hl=en Edited September 17, 2008 by Rich Engle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 Rich,I wonder why you are soooooooooooooooo sensitive about police and DUI... As to the police, of course they are there to protect us and many of them do. This is being denied. What am I missing?Collapse of major financial institutions: what has this to do with secret elite organizations? That, in my understanding, is the last thing they want. A good many want wars in the world so they can sell guns and supplies to all sides. I don't see how these things connect.Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algernonsidney Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 Swing dances are the way to go. There's a huge age range. But anyway, this thread is way past hijack mode... ah well.You probably need to read The Game by Neil Strauss. Look him up on Wikipedia.I also have a challenge for you. Approach 70 females in the next 30 days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 Rich. It's not the cops, it's the cattle who don't know to give the cops the finger. Five years ago my Mother's bank told Adult Protective Services that maybe they should investigate her and me. When the investigator showed up at the house without prior notice and invitation, I literally ran her off the property. Two weeks later she called and said she was terminating the investigation. Seems it had something to do with my Mother's attorney and my Power of Attorney. The Bank of America assistant manager probably involved disappeared. Mom's status at the bank is quite high. I think he had to justify what he did and couldn't. Over fifty years ago I ran away from a little dog that then bit me behind the knee. This was in Waltham, Massachusetts. When I got home to Tucson I resolved that that would never happen again. Loose yard dogs all over the place. A german shepard came running out at me barking his fool head off. I ran up to him and out barked and out snarlled him. He backed down. A few months earlier in Albuquerque we had visited a retired air force guy who was let go with his german shepard guard dog--I don't think this happens today--who was very territorial and protective of his family but NOT visitors. This dog trapped my brother in a corner and was advancing on him and I and the family boy ran out and shouted the dog down. This was potentially an extremely dangerous situation.You back down; you'll get run over and plowed under. If you dissapate yourself legally, even the Feds will have a hard time latching onto you. For instance, I have a bank account which isn't my account and can't be seized. No, it's not overseas. In my other accounts, the monetary balance is always low. They function as a "canary in a coal mine." If they are ever grabbed, I'll be warned mischief is afoot. I'm taking other steps to protect real property.The relationships between countries are all power relationships. So too between people and people and countries. Ayn Rand said seeking power was second-handism, but she should have gone into the details. If you don't have power, you'll get run over, chewed up and spit out. The most important aspect of power is knowledge and intelligence. The richest man--was--in Russia is now in prison. He went up against Putin without fully understanding what he was doing, and lost. He was seduced by democracy mush and thought he was safe when at terrible risk. He had something somebody more powerful wanted. OIL. The more you have the more layered and complex all you have should be. The powers that be can only chew on that a little at a time giving you a chance to get away and regroup. If you are invisible you also have power. You are off the looters' radar. A family of Indian India origin a block away from me went to a flea market to sell gold. No, no. That's not the way to do that. Followed home they were tied up and home ransacked. They moved to another home in a gated community, but their old home sits unsold at below market price, now over a year. Break into my home and I'll kill you, but nobody is going to follow me home from anywhere. I don't display myself.Be aware of the three stages of legal oppression in the United States:1) Police. Most dangerous. They might shoot you down. They are also the best good of the bad guys. Surrender to them, don't fight them. Once you are in custody, they have no more power over you unless you are a young male smart-ass. Then they might beat you up.2) Prosecutors. Very dangerous. Especially federals. They can offer you a deal that makes you a felon or you go to trial and spend the rest of your life in stir if convicted.3) Legal prosecution. If you are on the right (side of the law) you might prevail. During trial, especially if you have available resources, you might objectively prevail.--Brant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbeaulieu Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 More of my paranoid. police-state/New World Order research:From The Daily Paul, 9/14:It Felt Like "Martial Law" in Los Angeles!In my life I have never seen anything like this! My niece got married today. The Wedding festivities ended at midnight. On my way home on the opposite side of the #60 freeway going into Downtown L. A. I see very large trucks w/flashing lights - about 25 to 30 - lined up to form a single-file line for cars to follow to be stopped by at least 2 dozen police! This is on a 5-lane freeway, mind you!Thousands of cars and thousands of unsuspecting people are experiencing for the first time in their lives, the full impact of what a police state is all about this morning, folks! The freeway looks like a parking lot!As I transitioned to the northbound Golden State Frwy, aka the #5 Freeway, which starts at the Canadian border and runs through Washington State, through Oregon and all the way through California to the Mexican border, just before I get to downtown L. A. on my side of the freeway I see the same thing in the distance. Again, lots of trucks w/flashing lights and tons of cars stopping ahead of me to be herded to the checkpoint.So, I quickly and fortunately got off at the very next offramp and tried to get on, again, further up the road. However, there were several arrows on the streets for people to follow - seemingly to take you on a detour to another on ramp - but, no; they only led to more check points!Because I know my city like the back of my hand, I managed to evade the check points by going through neighborhood streets until I could finally get back onto the freeway some distance beyond the checkpoint. I live in Burbank and I couldn’t get onto the northbound Golden State Frwy until I passed Griffith park which is about 3 to 4 miles beyond where the check point started on the freeway on my side (about 6 to 7 miles from where I first noticed the check point on the opposite side of the freeway!)Every single one of those 3 to 4 miles on my side had cars w/mulitple passengers in them and the cars were at a complete stop waiting for their turn to be chuted in like cattle to be asked for their papers (?) and to be questioned by the cops (for possible DUI?). I would say, there were, at least, 3 to 4 and maybe even 5 thousand cars, approximately, on both sides of the checkpoints waiting to get through them. Unbelievable!!Never in my 61 years have I ever seen anything like this before!!I saw at least 25 tow trucks pulling vehicles away from the check point areas. I'm very much in shock and very fortunate to know my way around my city to have avoided what is still going on as I type this message. I had such a wonderful day only to be knocked back to the ugly reality of what is happening to us in our country, Martial Law! IT’S SCARY OUT THERE!!And the frog continues to be slowly boiled. First it was DUI checkpoints, then checkpoints for illegal drugs. Who knows what's next? Checkpoints to check for legal immigration status? Checkpoints to check for unpaid child support? Or unpaid back taxes? Or child pornography stored on people's laptop computers? The possibilities are endless!Meanwhile, we have self-identified objectivists telling us how wonderful the police are, how they are ready to risk their lives to protect us, how they are our benefactors, just like the heroes of Atlas Shrugged, how anger and resentment at this cadre of brownshirts must be motivated by envy for our betters. And, of course, we are nasty, evil people if we use any unkind language to describe our friends in blue who, after all, are only protecting us by pulling us over without cause and searching our cars.Oh well, not to worry. According to the fine folks in our government, the terrorists hate us for our freedom. So it's only logical that, by having the police systematically destroy our freedom, the terrorists will no longer have any reason to hate us. We'll be safe forever from the threat of terrorism, at the mere cost of living in a police state. I guess we should be greatful for a deal like that.MartinNothing to hide, nothing to worry about. It goes without saying that instances like this one can be alarming. But, take the population of the entire US (estimated 300+ million), and how do you go about keeping us safe? I'd rather see occasional checkpoints like this then have them come kicking our doors in systematcially across the US.~ Shane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 Swing dances are the way to go. There's a huge age range. But anyway, this thread is way past hijack mode... ah well.You probably need to read The Game by Neil Strauss. Look him up on Wikipedia.I also have a challenge for you. Approach 70 females in the next 30 days.Hold a Tupperware Party.--Brant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 More of my paranoid. police-state/New World Order research:From The Daily Paul, 9/14:It Felt Like "Martial Law" in Los Angeles!In my life I have never seen anything like this! My niece got married today. The Wedding festivities ended at midnight. On my way home on the opposite side of the #60 freeway going into Downtown L. A. I see very large trucks w/flashing lights - about 25 to 30 - lined up to form a single-file line for cars to follow to be stopped by at least 2 dozen police! This is on a 5-lane freeway, mind you!Thousands of cars and thousands of unsuspecting people are experiencing for the first time in their lives, the full impact of what a police state is all about this morning, folks! The freeway looks like a parking lot!As I transitioned to the northbound Golden State Frwy, aka the #5 Freeway, which starts at the Canadian border and runs through Washington State, through Oregon and all the way through California to the Mexican border, just before I get to downtown L. A. on my side of the freeway I see the same thing in the distance. Again, lots of trucks w/flashing lights and tons of cars stopping ahead of me to be herded to the checkpoint.So, I quickly and fortunately got off at the very next offramp and tried to get on, again, further up the road. However, there were several arrows on the streets for people to follow - seemingly to take you on a detour to another on ramp - but, no; they only led to more check points!Because I know my city like the back of my hand, I managed to evade the check points by going through neighborhood streets until I could finally get back onto the freeway some distance beyond the checkpoint. I live in Burbank and I couldn't get onto the northbound Golden State Frwy until I passed Griffith park which is about 3 to 4 miles beyond where the check point started on the freeway on my side (about 6 to 7 miles from where I first noticed the check point on the opposite side of the freeway!)Every single one of those 3 to 4 miles on my side had cars w/mulitple passengers in them and the cars were at a complete stop waiting for their turn to be chuted in like cattle to be asked for their papers (?) and to be questioned by the cops (for possible DUI?). I would say, there were, at least, 3 to 4 and maybe even 5 thousand cars, approximately, on both sides of the checkpoints waiting to get through them. Unbelievable!!Never in my 61 years have I ever seen anything like this before!!I saw at least 25 tow trucks pulling vehicles away from the check point areas. I'm very much in shock and very fortunate to know my way around my city to have avoided what is still going on as I type this message. I had such a wonderful day only to be knocked back to the ugly reality of what is happening to us in our country, Martial Law! IT'S SCARY OUT THERE!!And the frog continues to be slowly boiled. First it was DUI checkpoints, then checkpoints for illegal drugs. Who knows what's next? Checkpoints to check for legal immigration status? Checkpoints to check for unpaid child support? Or unpaid back taxes? Or child pornography stored on people's laptop computers? The possibilities are endless!Meanwhile, we have self-identified objectivists telling us how wonderful the police are, how they are ready to risk their lives to protect us, how they are our benefactors, just like the heroes of Atlas Shrugged, how anger and resentment at this cadre of brownshirts must be motivated by envy for our betters. And, of course, we are nasty, evil people if we use any unkind language to describe our friends in blue who, after all, are only protecting us by pulling us over without cause and searching our cars.Oh well, not to worry. According to the fine folks in our government, the terrorists hate us for our freedom. So it's only logical that, by having the police systematically destroy our freedom, the terrorists will no longer have any reason to hate us. We'll be safe forever from the threat of terrorism, at the mere cost of living in a police state. I guess we should be greatful for a deal like that.MartinNothing to hide, nothing to worry about. It goes without saying that instances like this one can be alarming. But, take the population of the entire US (estimated 300+ million), and how do you go about keeping us safe? I'd rather see occasional checkpoints like this then have them come kicking our doors in systematcially across the US.~ ShaneThanks to this attitude, they will come. Sanction a little, give a lot.--Brant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Coates Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 Rich, the only time police try to set up checkpoints in all the places I've lived - including Los Angeles - is holidays full of drunks driving like New Year's Eve.Even privately owned roads would have a provision in the contract (or alongside the toll booth) that you can't drive a two ton vehicle at 75 miles per hour when you are not in possession of your faculties. And that by driving here you agree to random spot checking on nights when the danger of highway carnage is enormous.And that they are not going to be pulling over people on 'fishing expeditions' outside of that. No one has the time. No one has the money.That said, instead of a scare story with no knowledge of what was up (tracking a terrorist or a fleeing murderer), why not read the paper the next day and see what was up instead of trying to scare us with a "police state action" of which you have given no evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Coates Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 ***philosophy of law: recklessness and propensity or very high risk of violating rights are also punishable offenses in a free society, every one of them***Severely drunk drivers (I don't know what the correct blood alcohol level would be) should be taken off the road. Fully as dangerous as someone who decides to celebrate the holidays by standing in the middle of a crowded street and unloading the magazine of a pistol by firing it straight up in the air.Or driving eighty miles per hour past a school when children are crossing the street.It's called cause and effect my friend.Loss of control of fine motor skills and judgment / Law of gravity / Momentum and stopping distances Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 It is the drunk drivers who are totally drunk who are the most dangerous. If efforts were focused on those drivers instead of moderately drunk drivers it might actually do some public good.--Brant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbeaulieu Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 Nothing to hide, nothing to worry about. It goes without saying that instances like this one can be alarming. But, take the population of the entire US (estimated 300+ million), and how do you go about keeping us safe? I'd rather see occasional checkpoints like this then have them come kicking our doors in systematcially across the US.~ ShaneThanks to this attitude, they will come. Sanction a little, give a lot.--BrantMy view, currently, isn't to interpret this as a national crackdown or martial law. I won't subscribe to the scare some seem to think of it as. Now, should we see this on every major highway in every state (and at the same time), I'll change that attitude. I'm just saying that at the discomfort of a checkpoint to check for dangers against the populace, is it really that big a deal?~ Shane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 Nothing to hide, nothing to worry about. It goes without saying that instances like this one can be alarming. But, take the population of the entire US (estimated 300+ million), and how do you go about keeping us safe? I'd rather see occasional checkpoints like this then have them come kicking our doors in systematcially across the US.~ ShaneThanks to this attitude, they will come. Sanction a little, give a lot.--BrantMy view, currently, isn't to interpret this as a national crackdown or martial law. I won't subscribe to the scare some seem to think of it as. Now, should we see this on every major highway in every state (and at the same time), I'll change that attitude. I'm just saying that at the discomfort of a checkpoint to check for dangers against the populace, is it really that big a deal?~ ShaneThe less deal you make of it the bigger deal it'll become.--Brant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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