Objectivism's Plague: Questions


Barbara Branden

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With regard to the periodic denunciations and "excommunications" that have plagued the Objectivist movement since its beginnings, what do you think is the cause (or causes)?

It's all about being King of the Hill. Sorry to be so blunt.

--Brant

Is that like "Intellectual heir?"

Alfonso (smiling)

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2. Is it consistent with any or all of the principles of Objectivism?

It can come about from a misapplication of some of the principles of the philosophy. For instance, if a person is not thinking in full context they can hold expectations of other people that are unrealistic and therefore it becomes easy to issue denunciations unjustly. It can also be intoxicating to issue moral condemnations. If a person makes a habit of this behavior recklessly, they can create a sense of false superiority in themselves.

4. Does it arise from errors or weaknesses in the philosophy of Objectivism?

It probably would have been helpful had Ayn Rand spent additional time discussing moral grayness, the proper application of sanction in our daily lives, and Objectivism as an open or closed system. Obviously many of the disagreements come from gaps of clarity within the philosophy. Rand may not have actually had fully developed answers for these questions either.

6. Does it arise from flaws in the personality and character of Ayn Rand?

It seems that she had some integration issues herself. This is not so much a problem, since rationally speaking we should be able to separate her character from her philosophy. It seems to be a problem for those that are unable to differentiate the difference.

7. Is its source to be found in the psychology and character of a particular type of person who is strongly drawn to Objectivism?

Certainly there are people who are attracted to Objectivism for the wrong reasons. Some of them are looking for a way to justify being loners and jerks. With a superficial understanding or misunderstanding of the philosophy, I think such people believe that they can support their poor behavior and feel moral superiority at the same time. Ironically the contradiction is theirs and the result is quite logical: they do not achieve happiness in my opinion. A person can only achieve pseudo-self-esteem, to the degree they live by social-metaphysics.

8. Is it caused by the teachings of one or more Objectivist organizations?

Absolutely. See Fact and Value by Peikoff.

9. Is its source to be found in a handful of nut cases of no importance or consequence?

I'm not sure they are nuts exactly, nor can I say they are of no importance or consequence, but I do think the source does come from a handful of people that should not be taken too seriously.

Edited by Donovan A.
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Some years ago there was a novel written by a young woman, in which the main character was strongly influenced by Rand's fiction. I don't recall the title of the book or the name of the author. She describes her student heroine while reading Rand's works in a kind of nirvana state, an ecstasy of feeling like one of Rand's characters. I don't remember the story well, other than the fictional character had trouble resolving things like having crumbs of food in her unmade bed, and that the feeling didn't last.

I think one of Rand's greatest abilities, as a dramatist, is to enable many readers to feel what it is like to be intelligent, quick-minded, brilliant, and feel the exhilaration of the rewards of doing great things. I think this is a great aspect of Romantic literature and art, to ennoble the spirit of the person experiencing the art.

Somewhere, here I think, is a discussion about the musician Zappa, and he is quoted basically calling love songs a lie. I thought he was quite explicit about that the promised feeling one can get from songs, doesn't have anything to do with reality.

I think this is the crux of Romanticism's glory and fallout. I think Edison grasped the problem in reality when he wrote: "Genius is one percent inspiration and 99 percent perspiration."

There are all kinds of people that have opinions on topics they know very little about. They may feel a momentary rush of power in voicing an opinion, but if they don't really know the issue well: don't know how to set up the context, haven't done the research, and haven't tested their ideas in reality, then their real appraisal of themselves crashes. And then, if they don't allow that to be a possibility, they become really weird. ;) That is said in a black and white way, but I think most people are a composite.

A strange consequence is that there are people who dismiss the inspiration part of Romanticism and living as unreal. And there are types that think ideas or their opinions rule, but they have little or no expertise in the area.

Going back to the genius quote. This is really tough, because someone might disparately want it, and be willing to do the work, but not really have the talent to achieve their ambition, no matter how hard they work--I think this is the most tragic kind of person, because they can become bitter, cruelly demanding of themselves and others--not turning out at all like their original inspiration.

I don't see how anyone could fault Rand for this--as I think she lays out these kinds of problems so well in her fiction.

(ahahahahahah, I wrote this as I woke up in the middle of the night, and I hope that I don't sound like a blithering idiot?!)

Michael

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Some years ago there was a novel written by a young woman, in which the main character was strongly influenced by Rand's fiction. I don't recall the title of the book or the name of the author. She describes her student heroine while reading Rand's works in a kind of nirvana state, an ecstasy of feeling like one of Rand's characters. I don't remember the story well, other than the fictional character had trouble resolving things like having crumbs of food in her unmade bed, and that the feeling didn't last.

Michael, that was possibly "Two girls, One Fat One ...." It was very literary--and forgettable.

--Brant

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I would be grateful if any of you who have opinions on the following questions -- opinions tentative or firm -- would tell us what they are. (I originally intended to make the questions a poll, but for technical reasons that became unwieldy.) The source -- or sources -- of what I call Objectivism's "plague" is a major concern of mine, and I think of many other people. The infection continues to spread and we seem no closer to a cure, yet its cause --a knowledge of which surely is the first step in combating it -- has never publicly been discussed or identified. Let's discuss it here.

5. Does it arise from virtues in the personality and character of Ayn Rand?

6. Does it arise from flaws in the personality and character of Ayn Rand?

Please explain your answers. Many thanks.

Barbara

I have questions rather than opinions. You knew Ayn Rand face to face and person to person. How did she handle and react to any dissent or differences in opinion and or judgment on issues she considered critical? I have heard stories that she was considerably short of being nice to dissenters, but that is just hearsay. You have first person testimony.

Ba'al Chatzaf

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I would be grateful if any of you who have opinions on the following questions -- opinions tentative or firm -- would tell us what they are. (I originally intended to make the questions a poll, but for technical reasons that became unwieldy.) The source -- or sources -- of what I call Objectivism's "plague" is a major concern of mine, and I think of many other people. The infection continues to spread and we seem no closer to a cure, yet its cause --a knowledge of which surely is the first step in combating it -- has never publicly been discussed or identified. Let's discuss it here.

5. Does it arise from virtues in the personality and character of Ayn Rand?

6. Does it arise from flaws in the personality and character of Ayn Rand?

Please explain your answers. Many thanks.

Barbara

I have questions rather than opinions. You knew Ayn Rand face to face and person to person. How did she handle and react to any dissent or differences in opinion and or judgment on issues she considered critical? I have heard stories that she was considerably short of being nice to dissenters, but that is just hearsay. You have first person testimony.

I tend to accept disagreement agreeably stated as a gift. I think of Cromwell's statement to the Parlement of Scotland: " In the bowel's of Christ, consider that ye might be mistaken". Any one who can point out a mistake I have made and missed has done me a service.

Ba'al Chatzaf

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Michael, that was possibly "Two girls, One Fat One ...." It was very literary--and forgettable.

--Brant

Brant,

hahahhaaha, that wasn't the title was it???!!! Yes I forgot the other character, I just remembered the crumbs in the bed--just precious.

Michael

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Some years ago there was a novel written by a young woman, in which the main character was strongly influenced by Rand's fiction. I don't recall the title of the book or the name of the author. She describes her student heroine while reading Rand's works in a kind of nirvana state, an ecstasy of feeling like one of Rand's characters. I don't remember the story well, other than the fictional character had trouble resolving things like having crumbs of food in her unmade bed, and that the feeling didn't last.

I think one of Rand's greatest abilities, as a dramatist, is to enable many readers to feel what it is like to be intelligent, quick-minded, brilliant, and feel the exhilaration of the rewards of doing great things. I think this is a great aspect of Romantic literature and art, to ennoble the spirit of the person experiencing the art.

Somewhere, here I think, is a discussion about the musician Zappa, and he is quoted basically calling love songs a lie. I thought he was quite explicit about that the promised feeling one can get from songs, doesn't have anything to do with reality.

I think this is the crux of Romanticism's glory and fallout. I think Edison grasped the problem in reality when he wrote: "Genius is one percent inspiration and 99 percent perspiration."

There are all kinds of people that have opinions on topics they know very little about. They may feel a momentary rush of power in voicing an opinion, but if they don't really know the issue well: don't know how to set up the context, haven't done the research, and haven't tested their ideas in reality, then their real appraisal of themselves crashes. And then, if they don't allow that to be a possibility, they become really weird. ;) That is said in a black and white way, but I think most people are a composite.

A strange consequence is that there are people who dismiss the inspiration part of Romanticism and living as unreal. And there are types that think ideas or their opinions rule, but they have little or no expertise in the area.

Going back to the genius quote. This is really tough, because someone might disparately want it, and be willing to do the work, but not really have the talent to achieve their ambition, no matter how hard they work--I think this is the most tragic kind of person, because they can become bitter, cruelly demanding of themselves and others--not turning out at all like their original inspiration.

I don't see how anyone could fault Rand for this--as I think she lays out these kinds of problems so well in her fiction.

(ahahahahahah, I wrote this as I woke up in the middle of the night, and I hope that I don't sound like a blithering idiot?!)

Michael

Michael; I believe the book you are talking about is "Two Girls Fat and Thin".

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