It takes all kinds!

[Barbara Branden]

"The Soda Fountainhead" -- New York Magazine

A vegetarian refuge for Ayn Rand Fans

http://www.nymetro.com/news/intelligencer/17078/

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Wow!

Here's an Objectivist dude who believes that vegetarianism is not evil and that drinking alcohol clouds objectivity. He even sells such immorality to the public like a pseudo-capitalist in a commercial establishment in Rand's beloved New York.

Dayaamm!

The spread of core Objectivist values (which you can amply read about on Solo Passion and RoR) is being hindered. Some serious repudiation is in order.

All this must be because his name is Brandon (even if it is with an "o").

Michael

[Kat]

Excellent. I hope Chad Brandon does very well with his Fountainhead Cafe. Its a wonderful idea and definitely a place to check out if you are in the area.

Kat

[Rich Engle]

That sounds like a nice hangout.

Of course, he does appear to be an enemy of Objectivism, therefore he must be killed, and eaten, as befits a enviro-pomo-whackjob such as himself. Somehow, Sciabarra is involved in this overt attempt to muddy the clear waters.

rde

Meat: not just for breakfast.

[Fran]

I have a confession to make: I too am a vegetarian. Does this mean that when I go to the summer seminar, I will become part of the menu for the cook-out??? [-o<

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Check this pearl of wisdom out on vegetarianism. What you eat has turned into Objectivist morality.

http://rebirthofreason.com/Articles/Rowlan...acred_Cow.shtml

Michael

[Rich Engle]

Not that I think for a minute it matters to Joe, but I say again I have seen many fine articles out of him. This one, however, makes him look like a booby. Let's break it down, shall we? No particular order, it doesn't require that.

First off, there was a giant blanket assumption, in the form of identifying all vegetarians as the same, both in practice, and in motivation. That is absolutely not true; there are many different kinds of vegans, and there are many different motivations- some of them simple nutritional and health issues.

There seems to be an assumption that eating meat is the proper and appropriate thing for man to do. Premises, please? There are none, one reason being the simple fact that man does not require meat to survive, all things being equal. Nature provides, in bounty, everything that is needed.

This is not always a moral issue, it is often a nutritional one.

Now, I spent six years as a vegetarian, and the reason I ended up stopping (for now) is that it was very difficult to maintain within my lifestyle. I got tired of it turning into a 3-alarm fire whenever I was dining at someone's house. People stare at you.

Here's another objective factoid, since our misguided O'ist brother has need of flash cards when it comes to this article: eating a lot of red meat is not good for you. It is not good for your colon, it's not good for your heart, it's really not very good for anything other than protein, iron, and so on, all of which are easily had in many forms. Meat, in general, is much more difficult on the body to digest than other things. I wonder if Joe remembers how it was around the industrial revolution period, where the rich were gauged on how big their bellies were; when eating meat to excess (and sometimes near exclusivity save for liquor) was considered a sign of oppulence? You know what oppulence was? Gout, obesity, flatulence, heart problems, high cholesterol, and no doubt made for some wicked bad unhealthy bowel movements. Shall we talk about undigested meat that remains in the bowels (much more so than other foods), and how it gradually turns into plaster and reduces circumference, making it difficult to absorb and process nutrients?

On the other hand, red meat can be consumed, like most things, in moderation and as part of whatever diet is required to keep an individual in nutritional balance. I know for a fact that in my case, eliminating red meat from my diet creates a number of health benefits, so long as I adjust properly. A reasonable compromise, by example, would be having salmon maybe once a week- great protein source, along with a certain enzyme that is very beneficial to the heart.

Vegetarians, getting back to it, are varied, for sure. But evil? Puuuleeze. I'm sure, though, that there are more than a couple vegans that actually are evil.

This is exactly the same kind of goofy-ass black/white t reatment that I see handed out about the environmentally conscious. Are there whackos, the misguided? Hell yes, just like in all the categories, Objectivism definitely not being exempt.

Some people do not like the idea of killing an animal for food if it is not necessary (which, again, it is not, all things being equal and available). I, for instance, do not care for the idea, because my fundamental reverence for life involves all life. That does NOT mean that I put a cow on parity with a human being, because I am not a whacko.

I think where he derails in understanding is around the distinction of why some do not want to kill animals- there is definitely a decent rationale available there, it is a choice of economy, necessity or non-necessity, health, and the goal of coexisting in balance with life, so much as is possible and reasonable.

[Philip Coates]

> I too am a vegetarian. Does this mean that when I go to the summer seminar, I will become part of the menu for the cook-out??? [Fran]

No. If you don't eat meat, you won't be tasty enough. I inquired with the staff and you're safe.

[CNA]

Rich,

I so agree with health issues and meat or protein, period. I eat meat but not much. I've never really liked the taste of it anyway but on ocassion will eat it. I'll put out one health issue where the first thing a doctor will tell the patient is: Cut out all meat, watch your protein intake, keep it to a minimum which is not easy to do since protein is in most of what we eat. And that health condition is called kidney failure. If you are spilling even the tiniest amount of protein from the kidneys, (very early stages of kideny failure) medication and eliminating meat will slow the amount of damage that has already been done and will help save your ass from dialysis. Trust me, dialysis is not pretty and neither is a kidney transplant. I had my own possible scare and the thought was brought to the forefront, god damn, I may eventually need dialysis which will eventually kill me or get on the waiting list for a kidney transplant.

Protein is present in most of the foods we eat, believe it or not. As we all know, meat is the ridden with protein. Go look at the nutrition label on your can of corn or green beans and you will see protein and the amount that is in it although I'm sure you already know this since you seem to take care of yourself anyway. But if you have any problems at all with your kidneys, meat will take its serious toll.

Unfortunately, here about 4 or 5 years ago with my own health problems which some on here know about, I started spilling trace amounts of protein and blood in the urine (hematuria), I was relatively calm about it but the doctors treated it as a four alarm fire. The first thing I was told was cut out as much protein as possible, do not eat any meat, here is some medication. From there, they ran an amazing amount of tests which all came back negative. The diet I was put on was horrendous. But a plus on my side, I don't eat much meat in the first place so it wasn't much of a lifestyle change for me and adjusted nicely to it as I always do. But it was a false alarm and everything turned out fine, extremely healthy in that department and haven't had a scare since and my kidneys are extremely health...woooohoooo !!

Meat can be brutal on the body, especially if there are deleterious health conditions present such as kideny failure, etc. I "try" to take care of myself but it is not always easy. But not much into red meat, etc. I'll eat on ocassion boneless, skinless chicken breast or fish but not often. I'm very much into pastas, salads, breads, etc.

The almost near vegan due to wanting to live longer !!

Angie

[Rich Engle]

The general state of nutrition in the United States is a nightmare.

We have so many processed foods, fast foods, etc. If you want to eat right it requires discipline, and a real commitment.

I have trouble believing that Joe is completely uneducated as to nutrition; it just doesn't make any sense at all.

It does go to show what kinds of corners you can paint yourself into- one minute you're writing good, informative articles; the next, you're telling vegetarians that they are immoral.

This one is a real head-shaker.