Ever Get Tired of Objectivism?

[PalePower]

Hello all,

So it's been a little while since I've been here. I came back to the site yesterday to see what was going on, remembering how much I've enjoyed being a part of this community, and was surprised to say that my overall impression was not derived from any particular issue being discussed, but simply by the fact that they still are: how do you maintain interest for that long! Which led me to the greater, semi-scarier realization that: Objectivism is not as important to me as it used to be.

Like most (I guess), I used to be a hardcore Randroid immediately after I read her books; they were TRUTH! with-a-capital-T and I had FOUND it! They meant so much to me - the characters, the life presented, the ideas, everything. I felt like my entire self could be summed up in the works as Ayn Rand.

Now, as I've gotten a little bit older and have some experiences and knowledge to call my own, I no longer consider myself an "Objectivist," just a person that likes the books a lot. (I realize that category makes up the majority of users on OL.) It's strange to say that knowing how large they loomed in my life before. I've also realized that I've grown somewhat disinterested in pure philosophical discussion, unless I have a personal relationship with the person I'm discussing the ideas with. I'm more interested in the actual events of real life and learning as much about differing perspectives than slapping the "right" ideas over any given situation.

How have your experiences been? How have you "grown" with Objectivist ideas? Is Ayn Rand as important to you as when you first accepted and loved her ideas?

~Elizabeth

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Which led me to the greater, semi-scarier realization that: Objectivism is not as important to me as it used to be.

Elizabeth,

That is wonderful news. You need to be composing and writing.

I mean it.

On your worst day, you are vastly more valuable to you than any philosophy ever could be.

I don't have time now, but I will return to this thread to make some more observations. For now, please keep in mind that the approach of Objectivist Living is not to spread Objectivism per se, but (1) to host discussions of Objectivism (Rand, the Brandens, etc.) from any angle deemed fit by the posters and (2) to host interaction about anything at all between people interested in Objectivism. It is literally individuals living their lives as they choose and coming together online for discussions and comments because they all hold an interest in Objectivism for one reason or another. Some want to spread it, some want to attack it, some want to understand it, some want to explore it, some merely want to know others like it but only want to talk with them about small talk, and still others have other approaches. I prefer to let each person decide. Objectivism is a background theme on OL rather than a movement. There are other forums for activism (which is OK) and/or preaching (which is uncool).

I do hope you will continue to grace us with your presence and creations. You work is lovely.

Michael

[Chris Grieb]

Elizabeth; Objectivism is for living your life. For most people that means it isn't your life. Michael is exactly right

[James Heaps-Nelson]

Elizabeth; Objectivism is for living your life. For most people that means it isn't your life. Michael is exactly right

Elizabeth,

I agree wholeheartedly with Michael. When I was in college, I did some Objectivist activities, but I found it hard to find time for Objectivism. There was so much else out there: Einstein, chemical engineering, electromagnetics, systems engineering. Shakespeare, economics, quantum mechanics, engineering projects etc. You've got your priorities in order.

Jim

[syrakusos]

For me, the internet has widened my circle of Objectivist friends. There is more opportunity for positive engagement. There was a time when all the Objectivists in town fit into one room and one person could dominate the club until everyone else quit.

Over the years (decades) I entered and left various groups and levels of engagement. You come and go. As Heaps noted, there are other things in the world, though as a philosophy Objectivism touches all of them for me. For a while, I read a lot of science fiction and even joined a local club. Numismatics and aviation are other hobbies of mine and I participate in those to a greater or lesser degree. I went almost three years without flying, though I maintained my AOPA membership, etc. Later this month, I will be hosting the Educational Forum at a coin show, something I do twice a year. Between those two conventions, I do not attend many (if any) local meetings, though I do write a monthly column for the ANA. So, too with Objectivism. You can only be so engaged for so long.

As an aside, it is always funny to hear a young person talk about being older now. You have no idea...

[PalePower]

Michael,

Thank you overall.

some merely want to know others like it but only want to talk with them about small talk

It's nice to hear this stated explicitly. And thanks for your compliments and encouragement; I have some new creations I'd like to share in the near future. =)

As an aside, it is always funny to hear a young person talk about being older now. You have no idea...

Hahaha. Maybe so. But, hey, it's true, from my perspective.

~Elizabeth

[Philip Coates]

> I felt like my entire self could be summed up in the works as Ayn Rand...I no longer consider myself an "Objectivist"

Elizabeth, a bit of a short and oversimplified answer: In my case, since I never had the view in the first part of your statement, I never had to later on reject the label.

[Roger Bissell]

Elizabeth, to answer the question in the heading of this topic: no, I've never gotten tired of Objectivism, just (some) Objectivists.

Objectivism is a tool, and it can be used for good or evil. I am particularly weary of those who use it as a club with which to beat others, or as a pretext for engaging in "alpha male" dominance struggles.

Keep up the good work. Your life and happiness are much more important than Objectivism ever could be. It's just a tool. You're a precious individual human being!

REB

[Selene]

Which led me to the greater, semi-scarier realization that: Objectivism is not as important to me as it used to be.

Elizabeth,

That is wonderful news. You need to be composing and writing.

I mean it.

On your worst day, you are vastly more valuable to you than any philosophy ever could be.

I don't have time now, but I will return to this thread to make some more observations. For now, please keep in mind that the approach of Objectivist Living is not to spread Objectivism per se, but (1) to host discussions of Objectivism (Rand, the Brandens, etc.) from any angle deemed fit by the posters and (2) to host interaction about anything at all between people interested in Objectivism. It is literally individuals living their lives as they choose and coming together online for discussions and comments because they all hold an interest in Objectivism for one reason or another. Some want to spread it, some want to attack it, some want to understand it, some want to explore it, some merely want to know others like it but only want to talk with them about small talk, and still others have other approaches. I prefer to let each person decide. Objectivism is a background theme on OL rather than a movement. There are other forums for activism (which is OK) and/or preaching (which is uncool).

I do hope you will continue to grace us with your presence and creations. You work is lovely.

Michael

Bravissima Elizabeth! I am new here and just heard your piano piece. You are exceptional. I have been involved in Rand for almost fifty years. It helped me focus and excel at whatever I chose to do.

Stick to your goals. Objectivism and her ideas are great guides, but your selection that I heard moments ago is straining to explode and move forward. Her books and ideas will always be there. Stay focused on your own happiness and clear abilities.

[James Heaps-Nelson]

Elizabeth, to answer the question in the heading of this topic: no, I've never gotten tired of Objectivism, just (some) Objectivists.

Objectivism is a tool, and it can be used for good or evil. I am particularly weary of those who use it as a club with which to beat others, or as a pretext for engaging in "alpha male" dominance struggles.

Keep up the good work. Your life and happiness are much more important than Objectivism ever could be. It's just a tool. You're a precious individual human being!

REB

I really liked Roger's statement here. Objectivism is a philosophy but it is also a personal way of life. Philosophy in general can help people solve certain types of problems, clarify goals and define one's proper relationship to existence and other people. However, there are huge swaths of very human problems, desires, needs and activities that philosophy provides limited or mostly abstract guidance for.

As Objectivism is an individualist philosophy, many people will have different views of how to practice the philosophy. For me, Ayn Rand's heroes were real. If I have not met real life John Galt or Francisco D'Anconio, I have met people who could pass for a Hank Rearden or Ellis Wyatt. For me, Rand in my teens was like a bridge to my future, allowing me to visualize what a successful adult life was like. I've let Objectivism remain dormant in me for certain periods of my life, but I've always picked it back up surprised at what I had not seen before. Ultimately, Objectivism is a clarion call to men of unborrowed vision to honor and reclaim their birthright.

Jim

[BaalChatzaf]

As Objectivism is an individualist philosophy, many people will have different views of how to practice the philosophy. For me, Ayn Rand's heroes were real. If I have not met real life John Galt or Francisco D'Anconio, I have met people who could pass for a Hank Rearden or Ellis Wyatt. For me, Rand in my teens was like a bridge to my future, allowing me to visualize what a successful adult life was like. I've let Objectivism remain dormant in me for certain periods of my life, but I've always picked it back up surprised at what I had not seen before. Ultimately, Objectivism is a clarion call to men of unborrowed vision to honor and reclaim their birthright.

Jim

Objectivism can work, if one uses it wisely. Reality Lite ™ also works. The difference is that Reality Lite ™ is a heuristic, not a comprehensive system (that has partially failed) and furthermore Reality Lite ™ cannot be confused with a religion nor can it be used dogmatically. Neither is it an imperative to eudaimon. It is compatible with mediocrity. The Best is not required. Good Enough will do just fine. It is a heuristic, not The Answer to All Our Questions.

Mankind can muddle through. Survival suffices. Flourishing is optional.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[Chris Grieb]

Elizabeth; Roger and Jim have stated my position. Your life is the most important.

[Judith]

Elizabeth --

Rand's works aren't going anywhere. Life is short, and there's a lot to do. There will always be people out there interested in Rand, and with the internet and future forms of communication, you'll always be able to find them. Don't feel guilty if you don't have time for everything. It isn't a religion and you aren't a backslider. Go live and love life!

Judith

[mvir9]

Elizabeth,

We've never met . . . so, hello!

I think it is wonderful that you have focused on your life and goals rather than on any group, regardless of what that group may be.

Michael stated the benefits of this site nicely, but I will give you my take on it: the beauty of this site is that it consists of a variety of individuals who hold many different beliefs, but who also hold some commonalities. These commonalities (i.e. an interest in Rand's works -- for whatever reason, ambition, intelligence, etc.) give us all a starting point for interacting with (or debating) others, and it provides us with an opportunity to find friendships with people we likely would never have met otherwise. Like many on this board, I can't stand the "bible-thumping" of some Objectivist groups, so I find sanctuary here

I wish you the best, and hope you stick around for a while.

Virginia

[Bidinotto]

Elizabeth, I especially like what Roger and Jim said here.

To me, Objectivism is like a road map to the world.

But it is not the world.

If you consult it for guidance, as you would a map, rather than treat it as its own pseudo-universe, you'll be just fine.

--Robert