BaalChatzaf

Male Circumcision: Mutilation or Modification?

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Now, I ask, who knows more about the procedure?

Ba'al Chatzaf

More than you? Nobody, Bob.

Anything, but please spare me from reading that "smeg..." word, ever again.

(the relish in your tone, too.)

I didn't think I could hate an English word so much. Greek or Latin, whatever.

You would prefer ear wax?

Ba'al Chatzaf

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Now, I ask, who knows more about the procedure?

Ba'al Chatzaf

More than you? Nobody, Bob.

Anything, but please spare me from reading that "smeg..." word, ever again.

(the relish in your tone, too.)

I didn't think I could hate an English word so much. Greek or Latin, whatever.

You would prefer ear wax?

Ba'al Chatzaf

Yes! Gimme that good ole Anglo-Saxon anytime.

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The practice of Circumcision is America became wide spread when a mad man who developed a tasteless cereal decided that it was a good way to stop masturbation. further he said that the circumcision should be "as painful and traumatic as possible". Its only a shame that we here in the US outlawed female circumcision (which the same madman advocated) but not male. Its my penis let me decide, if a woman doesnt want to have sex with me because I didnt cut off part of my dick... well too bad for her. Not only is it mutilation however some of the botched jobs (done by professionals) end in partial castration and death, this admittedly is rare, however the point still stands you dont have the RIGHT to make that kind of decision about another persons body, only they do. and "I think it looks better" is not a reason neither is your OPINION that you THINK its healthier there are billions of men the world over and throughout history who have been very healthy and have a foreskin.

GO CROW!

You speak of Dr. Kellog, a Gentile or as I would say one of the Goyim. What did he know? The Jews have been doing it over 3000 years and when a mohel does it is painless. I have actually seen the male baby sleep through the circumcision. That is because it is done at age 8 days before the pain receptors in that part of the body have developed fully. The male child barely feels it at all. Do not let you view of the procedure be colored by the fact that a crazy Gentile advocated it and for the wrong reason too.

Ba'al Chatzaf

your racial superiority is not flattering. And to answer your question who would know more about circumcision more than jews... Egyptians have been doing it longer than jews. However in actual experience there are christian and atheist doctors who do it every day several times a day.

Complications of circ include bleeding, infection, and mutilation. Deaths

related to circumcisions are extremely rare, but in late July a 5-year-old

boy died after a routine circ. Jeremie Johnson went into a coma and died

a week after his parents authorized the removal of life support. Jose

Tovar, MD, an anesthesiologist at Doctors Airline Hosp. in Houston, where

the circ was performed, has resigned in connection with the incident.

http://www.fathermag.com/health/circ/horror/horror.shtml

The fact is that it is nor your body therefore its mutilation. Just like you have no right to tattoo a child you have no RIGHT to cut off part of their body.

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The fact is that it is nor your body therefore its mutilation. Just like you have no right to tattoo a child you have no RIGHT to cut off part of their body.

I saved my three sons from the threat of cancer of the glans penis and the curse of smegma. I have a right and I had the means and I saw that it was done. What are you planning to do about it? When Antiochus outlawed the Sabbath and circumcision Way Back When he ended up with a revolt of thirty years duration which his people lost. That is how we got Chanukah.

I am also grateful to my parents (peace be upon them) for doing that service for me. At 8 days it did not hurt a bit.

A perfected dick is a happy dick.

Ba'al Chatzaf

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Being a gentile is apparently a pejorative to you?

No, it is an indication of lack of experience with the procedure. Jews have been doing it for over 3000 years.

Indeed, the practice started in the dark ages of religious tribalism, where the foreskin was offered to the god as 'pars pro toto' sacrifice. This shows how close those times still were to to the practice of human sacrifice (see the Abraham/Issac story).

We don't sacrifice humans to gods anymore, and the fact that the practice of male circumcision is being more and more questioned from both an ethical and medical standpoint indicates that things are in motion here.

It looks like circumcision is not uncritically accepted by all Jews anymore: I just came across a website called "Jews Against Circumcision":

http://www.jewsagainstcircumcision.org/

From the site.

Jews are some of the smartest people in the world. We are 1/3rd of 1% of the population, yet we hold 33% of Nobel prizes. We are smart enough to understand that mutilating a little boys' penis is not an acceptable practice in modern times.

SAN FRANCISCO BALLOT MEASURE TO BAN CIRCUMCISION

A current ballot measure in San Francisco seeks to ban circumcision with no religious exception. Many people have called this ballot anti-semitic and anti-muslim. This is simply not true. All babies deserve genital integrity and autonomy over their bodies. No one has the right to make a decision for a child to alter his body for non-medical reasons, including religion. Religous Freedom does not give one the right to mutilate someone elses's body, even if that person is their child. Parents only have the right to make medically valid decisions for their minor child, like a tonsillectomy or appendectomy. Circumcision is not medically valid.

The practice of Circumcision is America became wide spread when a mad man who developed a tasteless cereal decided that it was a good way to stop masturbation. further he said that the circumcision should be "as painful and traumatic as possible". Its only a shame that we here in the US outlawed female circumcision (which the same madman advocated) but not male.

When initially asking myself why circumcision is so widespread in the US, I suspected it might also have to do with the influence exerted by religious Christian fundamentalists hostile to human sexuality.

The inexperienced Gentile, Mr. Kellog advocated the procedure in the late 19th century and for bad reasons at that.

From the website "Jews Against Circumcision":

http://www.jewsagainstcircumcision.org/

Rabbi Moses Maimonides himself acknowledged that circumcision is done to desensitize the penis and curb masturbation.

Edited by Xray

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Being a gentile is apparently a pejorative to you?

No, it is an indication of lack of experience with the procedure. Jews have been doing it for over 3000 years.

Indeed, the practice started in the dark ages of religious tribalism, where the foreskin was offered to the god as 'pars pro toto' sacrifice. This shows how close those times still were to to the practice of human sacrifice (see the Abraham/Issac story).

Frankyl, isn't it high time to finally get rid of all that stuff? We don't sacrifice humans to gods anymore, and the fact that the practice of male circumcision is being more and more questioned from both an ethical and medical standpoint indicates that things are in motion here.

It looks like circumcision is not uncritically accepted by all Jews anymore: I just came across a website called "Jews Against Circumcision":

http://www.jewsagain...rcumcision.org/

From the site.

Jews are some of the smartest people in the world. We are 1/3rd of 1% of the population, yet we hold 33% of Nobel prizes. We are smart enough to understand that mutilating a little boys' penis is not an acceptable practice in modern times.

SAN FRANCISCO BALLOT MEASURE TO BAN CIRCUMCISION

A current ballot measure in San Francisco seeks to ban circumcision with no religious exception. Many people have called this ballot anti-semitic and anti-muslim. This is simply not true. All babies deserve genital integrity and autonomy over their bodies. No one has the right to make a decision for a child to alter his body for non-medical reasons, including religion. Religous Freedom does not give one the right to mutilate someone elses's body, even if that person is their child. Parents only have the right to make medically valid decisions for their minor child, like a tonsillectomy or appendectomy. Circumcision is not medically valid.

The practice of Circumcision is America became wide spread when a mad man who developed a tasteless cereal decided that it was a good way to stop masturbation. further he said that the circumcision should be "as painful and traumatic as possible". Its only a shame that we here in the US outlawed female circumcision (which the same madman advocated) but not male.

When initially asking myself why circumcision is so widespread in the US, I suspected it might also have to do with the influence exerted by religious Christian fundamentalists hostile to human sexuality.

Al Gore, Yasser Arafat, Jimmy Carter and Barack Hussein O'bama have won Nobel prizes. Are you serious about that being a measurement or standard of intelligence?

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Al Gore, Yasser Arafat, Jimmy Carter and Barack Hussein O'bama have won Nobel prizes. Are you serious about that being a measurement or standard of intelligence?

Good question. :D

Edited by Xray

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Al Gore, Yasser Arafat, Jimmy Carter and Barack Hussein O'bama have won Nobel prizes. Are you serious about that being a measurement or standard of intelligence?

Good question. :D

Thanks Angela.

I thought so.

Adam

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http://www.jewsagain...rcumcision.org/

Rabbi Moses Maimonides himself acknowledged that circumcision is done to desensitize the penis and curb masturbation.

The RamBam would spin in his grave if he realized how wrong he was.

Ba'al Chatzaf

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The fact is that it is nor your body therefore its mutilation. Just like you have no right to tattoo a child you have no RIGHT to cut off part of their body.

I saved my three sons from the threat of cancer of the glans penis and the curse of smegma. I have a right and I had the means and I saw that it was done. What are you planning to do about it? When Antiochus outlawed the Sabbath and circumcision Way Back When he ended up with a revolt of thirty years duration which his people lost. That is how we got Chanukah.

I am also grateful to my parents (peace be upon them) for doing that service for me. At 8 days it did not hurt a bit.

A perfected dick is a happy dick.

Ba'al Chatzaf

You also have the right to have your kids tonsils removed to prevent Tonsilloliths, or perhaps we should remove their kidney or prostate because who knows they might get prostate cancer, or develope a sever kidney infection. You do not have a right to violate your child, they are not some piece of property. Removing a piece of a child for some VERY low level POSSIBLE future problem is unjustifiable. It is the act of extreme hubris and even more extreme arrogance. The very idea that someone could even think of laying claim to another persons body against their will. In what way can circumcision be considered even remotely moral by any rational individual? As for saving your sons from the threat of cancer, there is such a threat of cancer that NO medical institution recommends circumcision to prevent cancer. Every "scientific survey" I have seen comes out of some back water third world hell hole, these "scientific conclusions" are drawn without any consideration for the individuals behavior, it simply comes down to "you have foreskin, you do not." Those who do not have foreskin come from some fundie Christian church or Islamic sect, and are thus less prone to have multiple sexual partners and thus there is a lower risk of disease and infection. And the fact that you "did not feel pain" is such an obviously ignorant statement. The fact that you do not remember the pain is different than the fact that you did not feel pain.

What I find most amazing is your last statement. "A perfected dick is a happy dick." assuming you believe in god what your statement amounts to is "God made my dick imperfect." a statement which I find ROTFL. Or did god make your dick perfect and foreskin comes from Satan?

Or are you an "Ethnic jew" who does it because it allows you to keep hold of some racial distinction (I know "j{lower case}ews" who do it for this reason and find it absolutely disgusting.) If this is the reason than it is a barbaric racism.

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Or are you an "Ethnic jew" who does it because it allows you to keep hold of some racial distinction (I know "j{lower case}ews" who do it for this reason and find it absolutely disgusting.) If this is the reason than it is a barbaric racism.

This barbarian is glad that he is not a heathen gentile.

Ba'al Chatzaf

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Or are you an "Ethnic jew" who does it because it allows you to keep hold of some racial distinction (I know "j{lower case}ews" who do it for this reason and find it absolutely disgusting.) If this is the reason than it is a barbaric racism.

This barbarian is glad that he is not a heathen gentile.

Ba'al Chatzaf

So that's what it boils down to: 'My religion and its rituals are better than yours'. :D

Doesn't happen very often on forums dedicated to reason, but when it does, it might indicate that he who wrote "This barbarian is glad that he is not a heathen gentile." (Ba'al)

has run out of rational arguments in this controversy. ;)

Edited by Xray

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Or are you an "Ethnic jew" who does it because it allows you to keep hold of some racial distinction (I know "j{lower case}ews" who do it for this reason and find it absolutely disgusting.) If this is the reason than it is a barbaric racism.

This barbarian is glad that he is not a heathen gentile.

Ba'al Chatzaf

So that's what it boils down to: 'My religion and its rituals are better than yours'. :D

Doesn't happen very often on forums dedicated to reason, but when it does, it might indicate that he who wrote "This barbarian is glad that he is not a heathen gentile." (Ba'al)

has run out of rational arguments in this controversy. ;)

Yep. Both sides of this debate are becoming more ridiculous.

Fanatical defense of a cultural/religious quirk, is as dumb as fanatical criticism of it.

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Or are you an "Ethnic jew" who does it because it allows you to keep hold of some racial distinction (I know "j{lower case}ews" who do it for this reason and find it absolutely disgusting.) If this is the reason than it is a barbaric racism.

This barbarian is glad that he is not a heathen gentile.

Ba'al Chatzaf

So that's what it boils down to: 'My religion and its rituals are better than yours'. :D

Doesn't happen very often on forums dedicated to reason, but when it does, it might indicate that he who wrote "This barbarian is glad that he is not a heathen gentile." (Ba'al)

has run out of rational arguments in this controversy. ;)

I am happy not be be an idol worshiper. Are you happy being what you are? If so, good.

I have stated repeatedly the benefits of circumcision: 1. the future health of the male child and 2. the cleanliness of the male organ. People who are circumcised to not often get cancer of the glans penis. The procedure is a health measure. Like taking out the tonsils. Before antibiotics infection of the tonsils was frequent and hard to treat. The best way to handle the problem was removal of the troublesome tissue. The operation is safe and the results are positive. No more infections. I had my tonsils out when I was six years old. I do not regard that procedure as mutilation either.

The other benefit of circumcision is that one can maintain an erection longer. The girls and women think it is a dandy idea. So do I. So one not only acquires a health benefit but a first rate power tool. And since it is done on 8 day old infants, it does not hurt since the pain sensors are not fully developed. The operation in no wise diminishes the reproductive capacity either. Look at the size of Orthodox Jewish families. The don't merely produce children, the produce baseball teams. The outcome of circumcision is generally positive. And those who undergo the procedure rarely undertake to reverse it later in life (there is a procedure of pulling the flesh back over the glans penis). No one who is circumcised (or hardly anyone) wants to be uncircumcised again.

A clean, perfected dick is a happy dick. And it is more lovable and kissable too.

Ba'al; Chatzaf

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Ba'al all of your alledged med benefits are so powerful that no medical agency supports them. Most people don't even know what foreskin restoration is or that it can be done. In addition it is not true restoration as it does not restore the fernelum nor does it restore the nerves that are lost.

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I have stated repeatedly the benefits of circumcision: 1. the future health of the male child

You treat foreskin as if it were a birth defect.

2. the cleanliness of the male organ.

... can be easily achieved by the use of soap and water.

People who are circumcised to not often get cancer of the glans penis.

Not only is penile cancer rare, the uncircumcised men who use adequate genital hygiene probably have the same lower risk as circumcised men.

The other benefit of circumcision is that one can maintain an erection longer.

The desensizited glans may prevent very young men from ejaculating prematurely, but then to prevent premature ejaculation is something a man usually learns in the course of his sexual life. No need to cut off skin with valuable nerve endings.

Also, try to look at it from the other side of the coin: a non-desensitized glans can turn out to be of advantage for a man of advanced age.

Look at the size of Orthodox Jewish families. The don't merely produce children, the produce baseball teams.

Could the real reason be that they don't use contraceptives? ;)

I suppose orthodox Catholics produce baseball team families as well. :)

Edited by Xray

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The other benefit of circumcision is that one can maintain an erection longer.

The desensizited glans may prevent very young men from ejaculating prematurely, but then to prevent premature ejaculation is something a man usually learns in the course of his sexual life. No need to cut off skin with valuable nerve endings.

Also, try to look at it from the other side of the coin: a non-desensitized glans can turn out to be of advantage for a man of advanced age.

Look at the size of Orthodox Jewish families. The don't merely produce children, the produce baseball teams.

Could the real reason be that they don't use contraceptives? ;)

I suppose orthodox Catholics produce baseball team families as well. :)

Lets not forget those who need corrective surgery because they are circumcised too tightly.

And I went to a traditional Catholic University for 3 semesters, they had huge families. Mormons as well, my best friend is a Mormon and he is the 9th kid.

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In an article here, according to the law suit,

...Dr. Anthony Pickett performed the circumcision on the boy, now 8, at the Maternity Center of Vermont on Jan. 3, 2003. Pickett used a Miltex Mogen clamp that removed 85 percent of the top of the boy's penis, according to the suit.

"Because of the defective design of the circumcision clamp, there was no protection for the head of the penis and Dr. Pickett was unable to visualize the (head) when excising the foreskin," according to the plaintiffs' court papers filed regarding the settlement. "For this reason, an amputation to the (head) of plaintiff's penis occurred."

The boy will need yearly visits to a pediatric urologist and will continue to obtain psychiatric care "to deal with the trauma of this incident and resultant surgeries," the plaintiff's court papers state. "In addition, future surgery may be required as he grows older."

Browne Greene, an attorney for the boy and his mother, said in a sworn statement that the case presented unique challenges. Medical malpractice statutes appeared to limit recovery in the case and
it also involved an uninsured doctor
, according to Greene.

The family will receive $3.07 million of the settlement total after attorneys' fees and costs are deducted.
<<<< so that probably works out to about 1.5 million.

Fascinating, the auto insurance company is obligated by statute to notify state motor vehicles that your auto insurance has lapsed and your vehicle operator license is suspended, but they are not obligated to notify the clinic/hospital that the doctor's license is suspended due to not maintaining insurance? Or, does the state of California not want to hurt the doctor's self esteem?

Adam

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Don't try this at home...

PORTLAND, Ore. (AP) — An Oregon woman who tried to circumcise her 3-month-old son at home after reading the Old Testament and watching YouTube videos

has been sentenced to five years of probation. here

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1 minute ago, 9thdoctor said:

One of the less-discussed reasons for leaving the foreskin intact: it can serve as a natural hiding place.

https://metro.co.uk/2018/11/24/man-pulled-back-foreskin-to-reveal-bag-of-cocaine-during-strip-search-8174589/

 

On one of those hospital shows last night a young man who had nasty desires tried to cut off his balls. The "caring staff" saved his cookies. I won't reveal any more on that. As Eddie Murphy playing Mr. Rogers might have said, "Now, if a human were smuggling something, boys and girls, who could hide the most during a strip search?"    

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