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WSS-- thanks for that Susan Haack quote! I have her stuff on my to-read list. I'm also going to copy and paste that quote into my blog so it can be shared... :)

Hey, no problem. Haack is wonderful, like a really tart and satisfying salad dressing for the mind, logical and astringent. She has helped sharpen my thinking --it's just gravy that Jody Allen Gomez is also a fan(!) and that you too appreciate her sharp sense.

At the risk of turning this thread into a bear-rug lovathon, though . . . I've gotten into the habit of reading your "Cyberspace Rendezvous." One of the most positive aspects of my forays into online O-worldz has been running into the likes of you and my esteemed colleague Gomez.

-- reading your blog actually forced my hand on putting up my retirement cottage Blog 46 (where I have just posted, into the heart of snarkness, "What if Ayn Rand had been a Man?" ) -- you quite matter-of-factly trundle about your business, which just happens to be a very stimulating intellectual journey.

I find it sadly ironic that Miss Mertz would have turned her sour bark upon you . . . as if she could stymie you . . . as if her opinion mattered to you . . . as you are everything she had hoped to become in her precocious imaginings . . . young, intelligent, beautiful, informed and richly well-befriended.

(I will carry your eight hundred and fifty pounds of books around anytime, anywhere you want . . . even if we never quite get to the BC forest cabin this year -- though I hope to see Gomez and Wong in the City this summer, and you both MUST OUGHT come to BC for the Olympics).

vancouver2010.jpg

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WSS-- You know, I was born in Canadia [laugh]

I'm not sure if I can make the Olympics--- depending on when it is. So far, my summer is spent in upstate NY, my fall/winter spent in last year of school. After that, I hope to take my two degrees to some grad program that addresses my odd interests...

wordpress.com has a nice platform for blogging, if you care to have a blog separate from SOLO. :)

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Thanks for the kind words WSS...I have waded through some nasty muck and mire, but this objectivist world has given me some diamonds. Wasn't it Keats who said, "much have I travelled in the realms of fools gold"? I've taken away some shiny stuff though, so I'm satisfied.

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Thanks for the kind words WSS...I have waded through some nasty muck and mire, but this objectivist world has given me some diamonds.  Wasn't it Keats who said, "much have I travelled in the realms of fools gold"?  I've taken away some shiny stuff though, so I'm satisfied.

My classical education is nil, I'm afraid, so the point of Keats' "deep-browed Homer" (as if a new world On First Looking Into Chapman's Homer) almost escaped me . . . but the imagery is compelling and the firm sureness of the insight is genius. So what if I'm so danged ignorant I gotta go look it all up?

Thanks indeed for the note, Sr Gomez -- apropos to current muck or not, your gloss on Keats' (a comment at the link above calls Keats "minstrel of the emotions") is mordant and pithy, two of the best attributes of your confections.

-- in response, a piquant cartoon of Keats, "young english poet," from the hilarious Inkspinster.com (in Italian, but comprehensible):

link to deleted comic strip image

TUTTO IL MATERIALE PRESENTE SU QUESTO SITO E' DI PROPRIETA' ESCLUSIVA DELL'AUTRICE E PROTETTO DA COPYRIGHT.

PER NESSUN MOTIVO TALE MATERIALE PUO' ESSERE MODIFICATO, DISTRIBUITO O RIPRODOTTO SU SITI WEB E SUPPORTI CARTACEI SENZA L'ESPLICITA AUTORIZZAZIONE DELL'AUTRICE

Il fatto che detto materiale sia visibile qui gratuitamente non significa che possa essere usato per scopi diversi dalla visione privata.

CHIUNQUE SI RENDA RESPONSABILE DELLA VIOLAZIONE DI TALE REGOLAMENTO INCORRERA' NELLE SANZIONI PREVISTE PER LA VIOLAZIONE DELLE LEGGI INTERNAZIONALI SUL COPYRIGHT.

- Grazie per il Vostro rispetto -

© Deco 2oo1

Postsciptum

-- oddly enough, I posted a reference to you (and, obliquely, to the trundling Miss W) --- in a post to Blog 46 entitled "The New Philosophy of Chatons and J-thons," AND got to write "I am all about fun"! Y'all here check out my esteeemed colleague Senor Giles' query on, oh, gee, guess what . . . :

"did it strike you at all that Diana Hsieh has never actually met Chris Sciabarra?"

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WSS,

Heidi and I loved the Keats cartoon. And it never hurts to exercise my rudimentary Italian...

While Diana Hsieh never met Chris Sciabarra, and may not have met Barbara Branden... she did meet David Kelley and Nathaniel Branden. She also met me, and a bunch of other ex-friends.

So I don't think whether she met Chris (who does little traveling, on account of his medical condition) has anything to do with her decision to denounce him.

Robert Campbell

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TUTTO IL MATERIALE PRESENTE SU QUESTO SITO E' DI PROPRIETA' ESCLUSIVA DELL'AUTRICE E PROTETTO DA COPYRIGHT.  

PER NESSUN MOTIVO TALE MATERIALE PUO' ESSERE MODIFICATO, DISTRIBUITO O RIPRODOTTO SU SITI WEB E SUPPORTI CARTACEI SENZA L'ESPLICITA AUTORIZZAZIONE DELL'AUTRICE  

Il fatto che detto materiale sia visibile qui gratuitamente non significa che possa essere usato per scopi diversi dalla visione privata.  

CHIUNQUE SI RENDA RESPONSABILE DELLA VIOLAZIONE DI TALE REGOLAMENTO INCORRERA' NELLE SANZIONI PREVISTE PER LA VIOLAZIONE DELLE LEGGI INTERNAZIONALI SUL COPYRIGHT.  

- Grazie per il Vostro rispetto -

I can't read Italian at all.

Ciro! HELP!!!!!!

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. . . I don't think whether [Diana] met Chris (who does little traveling, on account of his medical condition) has anything to do with her decision to denounce him.

Of course, and thanks for correcting any inferences drawn -- if I would answer Senor Giles' question honestly, it is that I only wonder at the depth of friendship claimed, and find it sad that these two never looked into each other's eyes or clasped hands. Sadder still that they likely never will.

Glad you like the Keats cartoon! I do believe it translates well without a word of Italian -- but hope Ciro does up a precis for those who want it.

Empress K, the copyright notice in Italian is warning us all that my link to the original site (via a google thumbnail) is riding the rail between fair use and theft. Look closely and you will see a fair resemblance to cognates in English. I left it in to save me and you and Michael from being clapped into a Roman jail (although Rome is said to be nice this time of year).

comic_tragicmasks.jpg

(from VRoma)

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Kat, I've also never learned Italian, but if you read the text slowly you'll probably see that you can understand most if not all of it. The meaning of most words can easily be recognized.

As an exercise another text for you:

Si deve suonare tutto questo pezzo delicatissimamente e senza sordino.

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kat, I am sorry I have just noticed your post : TUTTO IL MATERIALE PRESENTE SU QUESTO SITO E' DI PROPRIETA' ESCLUSIVA DELL'AUTRICE E PROTETTO DA COPYRIGHT.

PER NESSUN MOTIVO TALE MATERIALE PUO' ESSERE MODIFICATO, DISTRIBUITO O RIPRODOTTO SU SITI WEB E SUPPORTI CARTACEI SENZA L'ESPLICITA AUTORIZZAZIONE DELL'AUTRICE

Il fatto che detto materiale sia visibile qui gratuitamente non significa che possa essere usato per scopi diversi dalla visione privata.

CHIUNQUE SI RENDA RESPONSABILE DELLA VIOLAZIONE DI TALE REGOLAMENTO INCORRERA' NELLE SANZIONI PREVISTE PER LA VIOLAZIONE DELLE LEGGI INTERNAZIONALI SUL COPYRIGHT.

- Grazie per il Vostro rispetto -

This is the translation:

All the present material is exclusively property of the owner of this site. In addition, protected by copyright. For no reasons this material can be modified, distributed, or reproduced on other web sites with out the authorization of the owner. The fact that such material is visible here free does not mean that can be used for purpose different from the private vision.

Whoever, is responsible for the violation of such regulation, will incur sanctions provided by the international laws of the copyright.

“Thank you for your respect”

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er.... I was afraid it said something like that. The owner of the copyright has specifically stated that he doesn't want it posted on other sites so we have to remove it. The thumbnail is too small to read anyway, but I will leave a link to the deleted comic strip image.

Please do not intentionally violate copyright law here.

Kat

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Never met him in person is how I understood it.

But that didn't stop her from laying down her "judgment." What's not hah-hah funny about that is it really makes you wonder about motive.

Now, Chris Sciabarra, even if he were a filthy mongrel (and of course he sure as heck isn't) isn't anything remotely close to a threat. Yet Diana chose to lay the judgment out publicly. Why? Ostensibly because she wants to do some kind of public service for other O'ist braniacs who might fall into Sciabarra's evil web of cunning and intrigue? Hmmmm??

We're all big boys and girls here- I don't need some prissy-preach from Diana or anyone else to figure out what's what and who's whom to me. I make my own evaluations. But the point is, I don't buy this motive, it's damn near collectivist, or altruist, or...heck it's somewhere in there.

So, moving on, what could it be? I don't think we know and at this point if she told us I would have serious trouble believing her.

I'm not saying it's the case, but experience shows that these kinds of public denunciations are inevitably fueled by something politic. Somewhere, there is a ladder that can be better climbed by trying to rip someone else off theirs. Typical corporate bloodsport.

Orrrr...she's working on some kind of megla-messiah thingy.

But I don't buy the first reason- she wasn't trying to protect.

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Rich,

Diana Hsieh's public denunciation of Chris Sciabarra has both personal and political motives.

I'm not 100% sure what the personal motives are. In any event, I'm not going to discuss my hypotheses about them in a public forum.

The political motives are easier to figure out, anyway. As you suggested, they have to do with institutional "bloodsport."

The people who run the Ayn Rand Institute are not particularly trusting. They envision themselves as surrounded by "enemies of Objectivism." Diana Hsieh was associated with no fewer than four major "enemies of Objectivism": Nathaniel Branden, Barbara Branden, David Kelley, and Chris Matthew Sciabarra. Her associations with DK and CMS each lasted about 10 years.

To gain the trust of the principals at ARI, Ms. Hsieh has had to delouse herself. Hence the decision never to seek publication in the Journal of Ayn Rand Studies (Dec. 2003), the decision to quit working on Nathaniel Branden's website (Jan. 2004), the public denunciation of David Kelley (Feb. 2004), the private denunciation of NB and BB (June 2004, announcing a public denunciation at a time of Ms. Hsieh's choosing), the public denunciation of NB and BB (Aug. 2004), and, finally, the public denunciation of CMS (Apr. 2006).

Chris Sciabarra is a high-value target to ARI because he has challenged the organization's claim to a monopoly on Rand scholarship, and has done so by example, with his books and with JARS. What's more, he has put forward an interpretation of Rand that is contrary to both her self-presentation and to the official line taken by Leonard Peikoff and others at ARI.

So CMS is part of the iniquitous past that Ms. Hsieh has had to renounce, to gain acceptance at ARI. And he is perceived as a rival to ARI, as well as an enemy, so the principals at ARI would presumably not mind seeing him denounced.

One further wrinkle: Peikoff's "Fact and Value" implies (and it's a really shallow implication...) that any mentally competent adult who knows the official interpretation of Objectivism and rejects it is evil. "Ergo," Chris Sciabarra is evil.

But since that implication is not one that ARIans are always comfortable admitting to, there arises a felt need to prove that any "enemy of Objectivism" just happens to be personally immoral. Hence the 12,600 words.

Robert Campbell

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Robert,

Thanks for the insight. Being a newcomer to the Objectivist culture, I am interested to understand the historical context of current events. I realize you have your own particular interpretation of events but I am confident of my ability to assess the quality of the interpreter. If I wanted to find more historical overviews of current events, is there anything you, or anyone else, might suggest I read?

Thanks,

Paul

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Robert:"Diana Hsieh was associated with no fewer than four major "enemies of Objectivism": Nathaniel Branden, Barbara Branden, David Kelley, and Chris Matthew Sciabarra."

(Sob) I never was associated with Hsieh. In fact, I've never laid eyes on her. In fact, I'd never heard of her until I stumbled across Noodlefood one day and aroused her hatred by disagreeing with her about something or other -- I no longer recall or care what it was.

Barbara

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  • 12 years later...

I was searching for a comment noting Joe Maurone's old plaint on Rebirth/OriginalSOLO that 'non' Objectivists plagued the site/s and that he sought or believed others sought a 'safe' space apart from the 'wordly' non-Objectivish ... didn't find it.

I did find this thread, which pissed a whole lotta people off. I should have stood firmly with Michael then -- though I soon decided to post only in the 'Dissent' section that Lord Rowlands set up for folks like me.

On 4/28/2006 at 3:27 PM, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

Moderated on RoR

Now I have become moderated on RoR.

You can read the incredible misstatement by Rowlands of my ideas here.

Apparently he sees me as some kind of danger to Objectivism. (It's funny how others more well versed in Objectivism don't agree with him.)

Calling me filthy and untrue names on his forum is OK. Responding to that on his forum is not OK.

It's poignant.

Rebirth of Reason is now mostly a massive archive, with very few new discussions opened up. Great value in the archives for those with fascinations about Objectivist/Objectivish "culture."

As for the SOLOpassion hate site, I was banned there three times. Some of my useful compilations still stand, but Lindsay Perigo did remove a couple of posts that tweaked his nose too hard, including "The Vicar of Diddley." 

This one showed me doing my tiresome best to open discussion: Parsing Walker's "The Ayn Rand Cult"

Edited by william.scherk
Historical revision
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2 hours ago, william.scherk said:

It's poignant.

William,

I reread that post and skimmed a bit before and after.

I guess it's poignant. But I didn't find it particularly so.

It makes me glad to not have to deal with people like Rowlands anymore, nor deal with that kind of view of life and social organization. Oh... he's not a bad person. He's just not a leader, he was conceited in the superficial manner of elitists--probably still is (but I don't think he's a full-blown elitist, I might be wrong), and he always showed that he had little to no idea of what makes humans tick.

(The phrase "the virtue of pettiness" comes to mind.. :) )

On the other hand, his opinion of me--and fundamental misunderstanding--is probably worse today than it was back then. :) 

That thread is an interesting example of peer pressure. Lots of people preaching one thing, but each one interested in power and social standing at root. Now they are all scattered and there is no power--no Objectivism power--left for any of them.

Power is a fool's pursuit if meaning in life is the root interest. I even wonder if meaning of life was what they were after back then. Ultimately, I don't think so. But it's what I was after...

Michael

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