GOP Front-Runners Flip-Flop On Civil Unions

[Michael Russell]

Further evidence that the Republican Party is controlled by religious zealots:

From Ron Gunzburger's Politics1

GOP FRONT THREE FLIP-FLOP

CIVIL UNIONS: When it comes to state civil union legislation for same-sex couples, you could say Rudy Giuliani, John McCain and Mitt Romney were each for it before they were against it. For years Giuliani was a vocal supporter of gay rights. He marched in gay pride parades each year, appointed out gay persons to prominent positions, supported hate crimes and domestic partner legislation, and even lived with a gay couple during his last divorce when his wife kicked him out of NYC's mayoral mansion. That didn't stop Giuliani from doing a total reversal, announcing his opposition this weekend to New Hampshire's new civil union law which will give same sex couples the same legal rights under state law as those accorded to married couples. "Mayor Giuliani believes marriage is between one man and one woman. Domestic partnerships are the appropriate way to ensure that people are treated fairly. In this specific case the law states same sex civil unions are the equivalent of marriage and recognizes same sex unions from outside states. This goes too far and Mayor Giuliani does not support it," said a written statement given to the New York Sun in response to questions. Compare this week's statement to what Giuliani told FOX News in February 2004: "I'm in favor of … civil unions ... That's why you have civil partnerships. So now you have a civil partnership, domestic partnership, civil union, whatever you want to call it, and that takes care of the imbalance, the discrimination, which we shouldn't have." And, FYI, McCain likewise flip-flopped on the civil union issue this weekend. In November 2006, McCain told ABC News he was not in general against civil union legislation. On Friday, McCain tried dodging the issue entirely, saying he was a "federalist ... [and] recognizes the right of the state of New Hampshire to regulate the institution of marriage and to pass civil union laws." By Sunday, in a conference call with political bloggers, McCain jettisoned his former position of support. "I am opposed to that legislation ... If I were a citizen of New Hampshire, I would oppose it. ... Anything that impinges or impacts the sanctity of the marriage between men and women, I'm opposed to it." Romney, as a candidate for Massachusetts Governor and US Senate, supported civil union legislation. He shifted his social positions sharply to the right as Governor, once he decided to run for President. "Governor Romney opposes the New Hampshire bill. He is a champion of traditional marriage. As Governor of Massachusetts, he has a clear record opposing same sex marriage and civil unions," explained Romney's campaign spokesperson to the Sun.

Why can't we have a viable third party in the United States?

Mick

[Brant Gaede]

Why can't we have a viable third party in the United States?

Mick

For the same reason we don't have viable parties.

--Brant

[studiodekadent]

To be honest, I dont see anything wrong with voicing at least ideological support for the Libertarians, regardless of their 'big tent' approach (which every major party follows, by the way). Although I HAVE heard Ron Paul may run for President, which would be awesome but I doubt he will get nominated.

Paul isn't perfect. He is anti-choice on abortion. But compared to every alternative Rep and Dem he is far superior.

[Michael Russell]

To be honest, I dont see anything wrong with voicing at least ideological support for the Libertarians, regardless of their 'big tent' approach (which every major party follows, by the way). Although I HAVE heard Ron Paul may run for President, which would be awesome but I doubt he will get nominated.

Paul isn't perfect. He is anti-choice on abortion. But compared to every alternative Rep and Dem he is far superior.

Ron Paul has declared his candidacy, he participated in the Republican debate at the Reagan Library last night. Incidentally, I cast my first vote for President for Ron Paul when he was the Libertarian candidate in 1988. Unfortunately, the voices of the libertarian wing of the Republican Party have have been drowned out by the insane shouts of the Christian kooks. In the debate last night three of the Republican candidates raised their hand when the candidates were asked who didn't believe in evolution. Scary!

Mick

[James Heaps-Nelson]

To be honest, I dont see anything wrong with voicing at least ideological support for the Libertarians, regardless of their 'big tent' approach (which every major party follows, by the way). Although I HAVE heard Ron Paul may run for President, which would be awesome but I doubt he will get nominated.

Paul isn't perfect. He is anti-choice on abortion. But compared to every alternative Rep and Dem he is far superior.

Ron Paul has declared his candidacy, he participated in the Republican debate at the Reagan Library last night. Incidentally, I cast my first vote for President for Ron Paul when he was the Libertarian candidate in 1988. Unfortunately, the voices of the libertarian wing of the Republican Party have have been drowned out by the insane shouts of the Christian kooks. In the debate last night three of the Republican candidates raised their hand when the candidates were asked who didn't believe in evolution. Scary!

Mick

What is Paul's stance on the war in Iraq/ fighting terrorism?

[Michael Russell]

What is Paul's stance on the war in Iraq/ fighting terrorism?

Paul was and still is against the war in Iraq. Although Ron Paul is not strong enough on national defense for my liking (I believe he opposed action against Afghanistan), he was right to oppose the Iraq war. This Bush debacle has increased the threat of terrorism, not diminished it.

Mick

[Robert Campbell]

Mick,

Unfortunately, McCain, Giuliani, and Romney are all trolling for support down here in South Carolina, where an anti-gay-marriage anti-civil-union amendment to the state constitution pulled down 78% of the vote last November.

The Republican coalition is under a lot of strain.

Robert Campbell

[Steve Gagne]

Unfortunately, the voices of the libertarian wing of the Republican Party have have been drowned out by the insane shouts of the Christian kooks. In the debate last night three of the Republican candidates raised their hand when the candidates were asked who didn't believe in evolution. Scary!

Actually, within the Republican Party, the libertarians have been drowned out by the secular neocon globalists and their buddies in the mainstream media. Those you label "Christian kooks" are with the libertarians better than 85 percent of the time on policy, and though they (the Christians) get the press regarding their supposed "influence" in this administration, they've been forcibly sodomized by the republican establishment as much as the libertarians.

You find it "scary" that not all the candidates "believe in evolution"? You make it sound like some sort of religious test. What are you, some kind of religious kook? :poke:

Actually, what I find scarier is the mention of the neocon globalist John Thompson running as the supposed "conservative" Republican candidate, and polls showing he has a chance of winning. Great. Our next president is going to be named "Mr. Thompson". I mean, talk about life imitating art. Now THAT'S scary.

[Chris Grieb]

On May 10 Cato is having a book forum with Vic Gold about the state of the GOP. It will start noon Est. His book is about the Religous Right's take over of the GOP. Vic Gold was Barry Goldwater press secretary in the '64 campagin

Edited May 7, 2007 by Chris Grieb

[galtgulch]

American voters never seem to learn, except for those of us in the habit of thinking. It is conceivable that we are on the verge of becoming a christian theocracy given that there are so many of them and more candidates who share their worldview.

I did once enlighten a fellow who had been raised in the christian faith, having befriended him first and gained his respect. We had time to spend chatting about such things at length as we were in the military stationed overseas with nothing else to do. So I know that it is possible to change the mind of someone who is under the spell of religious dogma.

Still it is daunting to try to change the minds of tens of millions. The books by Sam Harris, The End of Faith and the other book called The God Delusion are not likely to change anyone's mind. More than likely they just make the faithful that much more defensive.

It will be curious to see if the voters support the more religious ones who are seeking the nomination. Huckabee sounds like tha name of a character Rand would have dreamed up. I wonder if anyone is busy working on The Decline and Fall of Western Civilization. One positive note is the election in France where I understand the winner is for the free market, whatever that means.

galt

PS: Be sure to check out the Forum Residential Video Telephony may be next big thing, especially if you have a loved one or friend whom you would want to see who lives at a distance.

Edited May 7, 2007 by galtgulch

[Michael Russell]

What is Paul's stance on the war in Iraq/ fighting terrorism?

Whatever Paul's stance on the "war in Iraq/fighting terrorism" he has a firmer grasp on the historical truth in regards to Iraq and terror than does any of the other Republican candidates, including GOP frontrunner Rudy "America's Mayor" Giuliani.

Mick

[Steve Gagne]

Ron Paul hasn't flipflopped on anything.

How come he trounces everyone in the online polls, but the msm/print polls don't mention him? Granted, there's probably some "ballot stuffing" going on in the Dr. Paul camp, but who are the msm pollsters asking? Each other?

"Gee, Mr. Fellow Traveller, what republican would YOU like to see lose against Hillary?"

"Well, of course, Rosalito, I'd choose Giuliani. Why, I suppose you would like to see us tromp 'Sleeper Cell' McCain?"

"Gee, I guess that puts the poll at 50-50 between Giuliani and McCain."

"I guess you're right."

RUDY'S LAST CHANCE: