Men and women make for strange bed fellows.


Victor Pross

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Men and women make for strange bed fellows. :hug:

Men and women love each other. Damn it, we need each other. However, not every cute guy or attractive woman you get to know will be stable, mentally healthy, and sincere when he or she interacts with you. The opposite sex can be the best thing to happen to you, or they can ruin your life in record time. Yikes.

Some will be strange and difficult---and even dangerous. This is true of both sexes. So remember the immortal words of “know your opponent.” I am not suggesting that you should vanquish your true love—that would be tasteless. But wouldn’t it be nice to get a grip on understanding the mental workings of the opposite sex? Damn straight it would be.

There seems to be no way to avoid problems with the opposite sex, unless you luck out and date completely balanced, healthy individuals, in which case the rest of us hate your fucking guts, and we hope you get dumped. (Come on, I’m only serious).

What is it about the opposite sex that you wish were different? Or to remain the same? What are some of your stories about what went wrong (or right) on a first date or once in a relationships? What is the ideal man or woman--the ideal relationship? Speak up, the opposite sex is now listening. The word is communication.

But let’s not get into some statistical duel, where one side says 45 percent of all men are rapists, and the other side pulls out a chart that shows that 80 percent of all women want to castrate daddy. There is no need to argue. It is an established fact that all women are ball breakers. (Oh, come on. I don’t mean it! I love women. Well, that is…I try to make love to women…oh, you know what I mean).

I have been a little lighthearted in the start of this thread, but don’t let this stop you from posting in a more serious manner your thoughts of men, women, relationships…and whole damn thing. Really, let's be objective (yeah, right). What do you love about the opposite sex? What drives you crazy? Come on, jump on your soap box and let it out.

Let us know your thoughts. Are men and woman strange bed fellows? Hey, we can work it out.

**

Edited by Victor Pross
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Girls, well, it bugs me when they're over-emotional, but I can generally avoid that. Other random habits that bug me are when girls tell me about guys at their school (if I don't go to it) or talk about how hot movie star x is. Girls listen to crappy music (rap and pop is never a good combination). (Disclaimer: the above were intentionally stereotypes, but I do see them alot.)

In all seriousness, the worst thing about girls is that they lie to make you feel better. Girlfriends that tell you something because you want to hear it are doing you more harm than good. They just can't wrap their minds around that. If you don't mean it, don't say it.

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I like them the way they are. It just shouldn't be messed with.

There is one thing I've seen on more than one occasion, if I had to pick a peeve.

There is often no such thing as a statute of limitations. If you did something, you did it, and it's very likely forever. In other words, even if said thing was discussed, forgiven, atoned for, negotiated, whatever...

I go for the when it's over, it's over approach. Move on. But in some women (occasionally but very, very rarely I have seen it in men)..this is now a renewable resource. I can't tell you how many times I've been blindsided by something that was tabled (or so I thought) effing years ago. It's like being tied up to a corpse.

So, it seems to me that this is something you just have to be aware of as a possibility in some women. Just lay back and try to enjoy it, boys.

rde

Closure, Schosure.

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Well, Freud discussed this matter, and although Freud has generally been discredited, I've seen signs of it in life and it kind of bugs me.

Both sexes are generally brought up by female caretakers. When it comes time to grow up, we have to separate from the caretaker and fall in love. For women, it presents no problem, because we fall in love with men. For men, however, they have to fall in love with women, who just happen to be of the same sex as their former primary caretakers. So they have all kinds of buried resentments that they end up projecting onto their future lovers.

My wish would be that people of both sexes would be brought up by primary caretakers of the same sex so that romances would be a lot healthier.

Judith

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I never understood mommy issues, but Judith is right in so many cases. Men end up doing things like trying to find a woman just like mommy and marrying them. Or they have permanent mommy rage and the whole female race has to pay for it. Or their separation issues make them go through all these weird serial relationships, develop commitment issues, whatever.

Me, I had a freakish relationship with my mom. She was a very loving, smart woman and did a great job with me until I was 11, then she developed a neural condition, went raging nuts alcoholic because of it, and spent the next 13 years traumatizing my sister and I, followed by a very drama queen suicide (I think dropping dead in front of the cake on sis's 13th BD qualifies).

So if anyone should have twisted mommy issues, it's me. But I truly don't, and when I see all this guy mommy crap that goes on, I just shake my head. It's like "freakin' figure it out, dude..."

And then there's the other side: women with daddy rage. Or women whose fathers become their standard of comparison for every poor SOB who rolls down the pike. Again, it's like, alright, that was him, this is all the rest of us- notate the differences, report due tomorrow.

Edited by Rich Engle
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I don't know if I've ever really had a primary caretaker. I mean my mom has been around more to be sure, but I relate to my dad far more than I relate to my mom. Don't get me wrong, I love my mom. She is a wonderful person. However, I find that I think far more like my father than like my mother which is why I am not sure I would call either of them my primary caretaker. It was an equal effort and I'd say it turned out alright. I've never noticed any real mommy issues, then again around this age all my friends are trying to get as far away from their parents as possible.

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But see, Jeff, that's all well and good, but it only goes to show how deeply repressed all your mommy stuff really is.

And it's only going to get worse. By the time you're out of college, you'll be cross-dressing in old lady clothes and stalking young girls with a cub scout knife... :lol:

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It's hard for me to say what I love about guys, because pretty much every guy I've met is a complete douche. Probably one of the most adorable things though (if you can find a good guy) is protectiveness. "What, you say you ran into a wall and it hurt you? I'll kick that wall's ass!!!" Awwwwww! Also, I'm not very touchy feely, but it's cute when a guy plays with your hair. So nice. And pet names. Adorable. *sigh* Where are all the good guys? *looks under rocks, etc.*

Some things I hate about the asshole guys I've met: Some of them don't understand "no means no." Some women find it cute when a guy pokes, pinches, touches them, but I hate it! And when I say "stop it," I mean "STOP IT NOW!" Some of them just can't get that through their heads. Just STOP it fa christ's sake. Another trait a lot of guys (and girls actually) posess is jealousy. Not a huge turn on. Shows their lack of confidence in themselves and their lack of trust in a girl (or guy). I could go on and on...

Girls, well, it bugs me when they're over-emotional, but I can generally avoid that. Other random habits that bug me are when girls tell me about guys at their school (if I don't go to it) or talk about how hot movie star x is. Girls listen to crappy music (rap and pop is never a good combination). (Disclaimer: the above were intentionally stereotypes, but I do see them alot.)

In all seriousness, the worst thing about girls is that they lie to make you feel better. Girlfriends that tell you something because you want to hear it are doing you more harm than good. They just can't wrap their minds around that. If you don't mean it, don't say it.

Yeah...ALL rap and pop is crappy. And country isn't bad at aaaaaaaaaaall! LOL. I know you pointed out that that's a stereotype, but I'm going to point it out again. That's an effing stereotype!

As for being overly emotional...I see where you're coming from and I agree. However, I think that some guys are too unemotional. There needs to be a happy medium. (I especially dislike when a guy refuses to admit that he thinks something is cute. Come on, dude, you KNOW that kitten is cute. I won't think you're less of a man if you say so.)

Guys lie to make a woman feel better too. (Do I look fat in this?) People in general need to learn to be truthful.

There is often no such thing as a statute of limitations. If you did something, you did it, and it's very likely forever. In other words, even if said thing was discussed, forgiven, atoned for, negotiated, whatever...

I agree. I see that with women too and it's annoying. Do not say that something is forgiven if it is not!

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There are two archetypes (I’ll avoid the word stereotype) that I deplore: The Bitch Goddess and the Stud Player. (So I’m taking a swipe at both sexes here). Of course there are many differences between the Bitch Goddess and the Stud Player, but there are many similarities as well: one such similarity is that both have nothing much to offer and hang everything on their spectacular good looks. They are shallow and manipulate the opposite sex, leaving the opposite sex pussywhipped or cock-whipped. (I know, I know, this is very crass of me to put it this way).

One such woman was in the film L.A. story, playing Steve Martin’s girlfriend. At one point he says to her, “I don’t think you understand how unattractive hate is.” The Bitch Goddess never does. Men are likely to pursue such a critical, difficult woman because she’s very physically attractive. She expects to be fawned upon and to be catered to financially. There is nothing wrong treating your girlfriend to dinner and gifts, but not if she expects it as her birth right. Yes, there is the 'Princess factor' in there as well. It's a turn off. If you get into a relationship with her, you might as well castrate yourself now, because she’s going to do it eventually. The stud player, like the Bitch Goddess, exploits the opposite sex, but usually sexually. Charm, lies, manipulation are the tools in trade.

Edited by Victor Pross
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I couldn't have said it better myself, Victor. It seems to me that many men and women (mostly women) are attracted to those types. I wonder why! :blink: I definitely dug that "I don’t think you understand how unattractive hate is," quote. So true. Most definitely not hot to be a miserable lump of hatred all the time. I mean...even on my downer kind of days I can still find something to smile about!

This kind of reminds me of the typical sitcom with the bitchy "we're-never-going-to-have-sex-because-I'm-a-stupid-miserable-bitch" wife and the "my-wife-never-fucks-me-or-lets-me-do-anything-I-like-so-I'm-going-to-be-a-fat-lazy-lying-bastard" husband. That's not a good model of what a relationship should be, but people laugh at it! Not. Funny. At. All. "Umm...after much consideration...I don't think you guys are a terrific match. Maybe staying together for the kids really isn't the best idea."

P.S. I don't know about a pussy-whipping, but I'll take a cock-whipping any day. :devil: *Just had to do it*

Edited by Kori
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The sensitive New-Age man.

This one might be an eye-opener to men and women.

Here is an archetype that I don’t really deplore, but rather pity. The sensitive New Age guy tries to seduce women by being forever nice, helpful and sensitive to women’s issues. He wears crystals and lets his hair grow long. He is a peaceful musician or artsy type and enjoys playing his guitar in a clearing in the woods.

The sensitive New Age guy pretends, even to himself, that he is not a rutting sex-craved beast. He apologies for his sexuality--or else tries to cover it up as if it were a dirty little secret. It is no wonder he is always consigned into the “friend department” with women. There is nothing wrong having a female friend, but the New Age man longs for a romantic relationship. Unfortunate for him, he does know how to pursue a woman. Oh yeah, he’s so full of lightness and goodness.

Women love to see a man who can cry, but the sensitive New Age man cries too much. He cries at sappy movies, weddings and long-distance commercials. And instead of becoming a lover, he becomes a “girlfriend.” He has no vitality or masculine presence. This guy needs to rent a few Clint Eastwood movies and eat some red meat.

Edited by Victor Pross
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One of the things that I love about a man and is a huge plus in a relationship for me is how affectionate he is. I love to hold hands or walking together and touching his jeans or arm or putting my hand in his back pocket and resting it there, sweet little kisses, cuddling for the love and affection of it and not expecting sex, loves romance, etc.

I've known too many men as well as complaints from many women that the only time their man touches them is when they want sex. There isn't any affection for affection's sake. There is no more washing the dishes and he comes up from behind, brushes your hair to the side, and kisses your neck gently. No more cuddling. No more holding hands, etc. Come on, guys, a bit more affection would be nice.

This pet peeve is how a man avoids certain questions, denies it, or flat out lies about it. I wrote about this briefly yesterday or the day before on another thread so I figured it would do well here. Women have different reasons for asking this question. But when I personally ask this question, it is more specific in what I am ultimately looking for. And what I am looking for is how honest he is. It is rather annoying when you ask a man if someone is attractive and they either deny it or do whatever they can to avoid the question or straight out lies.

A drop dead gorgeous woman walks into the room and every man in the room notices her as well as some of the women. You look at your guy and you see him watching her. Later on you ask him the question he dreads, "Did you see that girl tonight?" or "Do you think she was pretty?" He either does whatever he can to avoid the question and answering it, denies it, or straight out lies to you about it by saying something such as, "Oh, no, she wasn't pretty at all" or "I didn't notice any girl tonight." You point out and make it as clear as day who you are talking about and you noticed that he was watching her just as everyone else was or what have you and he still goes into the whole denial drill or lying deal. This is irritating. You know, all I am looking for is how honest you are. It's not going to bother me if you found her to be attractive. I am secure with who I am, how I look, what I have to offer, and so forth. I fully understand that you're not dead and neither am I. Just because you are taken doesn't mean you've been stripped of being human and of being a man and aren't allowed to find others attractive and the same goes for myself. It's ridiculous for a woman to be offended or hurt when reality makes itself known when it is confirmed by him that he is a human being, he is a man, he isn't dead and he is capable of finding others attractive still.

It's unfortunate because how he responds is due to conditioning. Men have learned that when this question is asked of them and they are honest they get the 3rd degree and one hell of a backlash for it. Absolutely amazing. So guys have learned to either avoid the question, deny it, or lie about it because of their previous experiences with insecure women. When I ask this question of my guy, there won'e be any backlash. What I am looking for is honesty. That's all. I want an honest man in my life, not one that lies and evades.

Kori brought up another one on another thread and I completely agree with her. On this one, for me, it boils down to honesty again. When I ask my man if I look fat in something, I am looking for an honest answer. If I am going out with him somewhere and wanting to look my best, I want to know if my butt looks too big or if there is another dress that I can put on that he likes me in better and doesn't make my hips or butt look big or whatever is at issue. I am wanting to look nice and sexy for him as well as for myself. He is my baby, my companion, my friend, my lover. He is a man I am sharing my life with. I want to feel sexy for myself and also for my guy because when a woman feels sexy, her attitude changes tremendously. She is more secure, more receptive, more playful. She exudes sex appeal in the way she holds herself, carries herself, etc., and her man benefits from this in many ways. I don't want to walk around with god awful camel toes or my ass looking like it's the size of a city block or whatever. Again, I'm looking for honesty. I want an honest man in my life and not one that lies and evades.

Victor is all of these things and one of the many reasons why I fell in love with him. He is so romantic, affectionate, loving, and most of all honest with me. I finally found a man that has these traits. He values it as much as I do. This is what I want in a relationship.

Edited by CNA
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Victor unleashes himself on those pesky, quiche-eating bastards:

"Here is an archetype that I don’t really deplore, but rather pity. The sensitive New Age guy tries to seduce women by being forever nice, helpful and sensitive to women’s issues. He wears crystals and lets his hair grow long. He is a peaceful musician or artsy type and enjoys playing his guitar in a clearing in the woods."

Oh yeah. But I feel the breed is slowly vanishing. They were not lacking in cunning, though. Basically, they were working the same kung fu as the Hippy Guy. A lot of these guys were working towards harems, or at least a menage. Others were just testosterone-challenged. Long before all this was the Turtleneck/chain necklace guys. Little goatees and such. All of them were enjoying, at the least moderate success, mainly due to the complete ignorance and insensitivities of the All-American. They get points for innovation and opportunism.

The new model is working it real well. I don't know what this one should be called, but I've seen them in action up close and personal. They borrow from all times and cultures. I've been keeping my eye on one fine specimen, when I'm out in the field.

I frequent a sleazy, eclectic-yet-biker-bar place that also has swing bands and a good jukebox-- there's always an open dance floor. I go there with (my) Kat to swing dance and such.

One night arrives this New Model, with adoring chickie in tow. He has the little chin goatee, and purposelly messy hair, tats, various mismatched ornamentation. He speaks in a self-adopted quasi-English accent (you guys know that one--it makes you want to curl up your fist and pop them one just for the heck of it). He also breaks out the move of constantly networking on the cell phone, even though for the life of me I can't imagine anything this guy would have going on that would require this much activity. It's sort of a ringmaster/narcissist thing.

I think what really annoys me is that a lot of people think he is a really good swing dancer. He totally sucks and has no steps (kind of important in swing dancing). He fakes EVERYTHING including that. Ultimately, he whips up the crowd by driving chickie around the floor by grinding his crotch into her. Then, more self-important phone calls (must be a better party somewhere else) and out they go. A Total Douchebag.

But I think these guys definitely have some kung fu going, yucky as they are.

Edited by Rich Engle
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A drop dead gorgeous woman walks into the room and every man in the room notices her as well as some of the women. You look at your guy and you see him watching her. Later on you ask him the question he dreads, "Did you see that girl tonight?" or "Do you think she was pretty?" He either does whatever he can to avoid the question and answering it, denies it, or straight out lies to you about it by saying something such as, "Oh, no, she wasn't pretty at all" or "I didn't notice any girl tonight." You point out and make it as clear as day who you are talking about and you noticed that he was watching her just as everyone else was or what have you and he still goes into the whole denial drill or lying deal. This is irritating. You know, all I am looking for is how honest you are. It's not going to bother me if you found her to be attractive. I am secure with who I am, how I look, what I have to offer, and so forth. I fully understand that you're not dead and neither am I. Just because you are taken doesn't mean you've been stripped of being human and of being a man and aren't allowed to find others attractive and the same goes for myself. It's ridiculous for a woman to be offended or hurt when reality makes itself known when it is confirmed by him that he is a human being, he is a man, he isn't dead and he is capable of finding others attractive still.

It's unfortunate because how he responds is due to conditioning. Men have learned that when this question is asked of them and they are honest they get the 3rd degree and one hell of a backlash for it. Absolutely amazing. So guys have learned to either avoid the question, deny it, or lie about it because of their previous experiences with insecure women. When I ask this question of my guy, there won'e be any backlash. What I am looking for is honesty. That's all. I want an honest man in my life, not one that lies and evades.

Kori brought up another one on another thread and I completely agree with her. On this one, for me, it boils down to honesty again. When I ask my man if I look fat in something, I am looking for an honest answer. If I am going out with him somewhere and wanting to look my best, I want to know if my butt looks too big or if there is another dress that I can put on that he likes me in better and doesn't make my hips or butt look big or whatever is at issue. I am wanting to look nice and sexy for him as well as for myself. He is my baby, my companion, my friend, my lover. He is a man I am sharing my life with. I want to feel sexy for myself and also for my guy because when a woman feels sexy, her attitude changes tremendously. She is more secure, more receptive, more playful. She exudes sex appeal in the way she holds herself, carries herself, etc., and her man benefits from this in many ways. I don't want to walk around with god awful camel toes or my ass looking like it's the size of a city block or whatever. Again, I'm looking for honesty. I want an honest man in my life and not one that lies and evades.

Hmmm, I don't know, Angie. I wouldn't bother asking a man that question. If it's obvious he noticed the woman, why bother asking? It's kind of like a trap. That in itself isn't honest. Besides, it's a no-win situation for the guy. There's no right answer. If I saw him looking, I'd just grab his chin and turn his head and say playfully, "Hey! Stop that! It makes me look bad when you do that so obviously when you're out with me!"

Men tend to have this horrible fear of conflict with women. They tend to be terrified of saying the wrong thing because they think it will blow up into a big argument for the rest of the night and then no sex for a week. They know that women tend to be better than they are with words. So they just avoid, avoid, avoid. (Yes, it's a stereotype, but also an explanation of the stereotype.)

I'd prefer to decide for myself how I look in my clothes.

Judith

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(My) Kat is an incredibly greedy and jealous woman; basically, she considers me to be her property. We have gotten into discussions about "ownership" where I saw there is no individual ownership in these cases, rather, it is the love that owns both parties. Well, that's lovely and she agrees, but on the street level, that's not going to change her. It makes me kind of happy. And, I have to admit to much of the same sentiment, I just don't talk about it. I like it when other men look at her, which they do frequently. Of course, if they cross the line (particularly as in touching without permission) I am inclined to skip over the polite warning stage and go right to the grounding and pounding--but that's just me. Once, I was literally a blink away from coming off a stage and dispensing tribal justice because of an idiot who didn't know what social dancing means. But she has a way of handling those guys--right before the killin' was going to start I saw her whisper something in his ear and he just left.

So, that's the scenario in our relationship. We both have no problem about "looking." As a matter of fact we'll usually discuss it in terms of "do you think he/she is..." The only thing I'd say I wouldn't want to do is look too long. That might get a little ugly, and quite frankly it's rude when you're out with your honey.

As to the "do I look fat" thing...pretty much the same. I don't feel like I'm walking into a minefield anymore, like I did in previous relationships. Usually, she has it figured out already. Or, the dodge: "I'm not sure yet now that you ask...what do you think?" Sales turnarounds=good.

Edited by Rich Engle
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A drop dead gorgeous woman walks into the room and every man in the room notices her as well as some of the women. You look at your guy and you see him watching her. Later on you ask him the question he dreads, "Did you see that girl tonight?" or "Do you think she was pretty?" He either does whatever he can to avoid the question and answering it, denies it, or straight out lies to you about it by saying something such as, "Oh, no, she wasn't pretty at all" or "I didn't notice any girl tonight." You point out and make it as clear as day who you are talking about and you noticed that he was watching her just as everyone else was or what have you and he still goes into the whole denial drill or lying deal. This is irritating. You know, all I am looking for is how honest you are. It's not going to bother me if you found her to be attractive. I am secure with who I am, how I look, what I have to offer, and so forth. I fully understand that you're not dead and neither am I. Just because you are taken doesn't mean you've been stripped of being human and of being a man and aren't allowed to find others attractive and the same goes for myself. It's ridiculous for a woman to be offended or hurt when reality makes itself known when it is confirmed by him that he is a human being, he is a man, he isn't dead and he is capable of finding others attractive still.

It's unfortunate because how he responds is due to conditioning. Men have learned that when this question is asked of them and they are honest they get the 3rd degree and one hell of a backlash for it. Absolutely amazing. So guys have learned to either avoid the question, deny it, or lie about it because of their previous experiences with insecure women. When I ask this question of my guy, there won'e be any backlash. What I am looking for is honesty. That's all. I want an honest man in my life, not one that lies and evades.

Kori brought up another one on another thread and I completely agree with her. On this one, for me, it boils down to honesty again. When I ask my man if I look fat in something, I am looking for an honest answer. If I am going out with him somewhere and wanting to look my best, I want to know if my butt looks too big or if there is another dress that I can put on that he likes me in better and doesn't make my hips or butt look big or whatever is at issue. I am wanting to look nice and sexy for him as well as for myself. He is my baby, my companion, my friend, my lover. He is a man I am sharing my life with. I want to feel sexy for myself and also for my guy because when a woman feels sexy, her attitude changes tremendously. She is more secure, more receptive, more playful. She exudes sex appeal in the way she holds herself, carries herself, etc., and her man benefits from this in many ways. I don't want to walk around with god awful camel toes or my ass looking like it's the size of a city block or whatever. Again, I'm looking for honesty. I want an honest man in my life and not one that lies and evades.

Hmmm, I don't know, Angie. I wouldn't bother asking a man that question. If it's obvious he noticed the woman, why bother asking? It's kind of like a trap. That in itself isn't honest. Besides, it's a no-win situation for the guy. There's no right answer. If I saw him looking, I'd just grab his chin and turn his head and say playfully, "Hey! Stop that! It makes me look bad when you do that so obviously when you're out with me!"

Men tend to have this horrible fear of conflict with women. They tend to be terrified of saying the wrong thing because they think it will blow up into a big argument for the rest of the night and then no sex for a week. They know that women tend to be better than they are with words. So they just avoid, avoid, avoid. (Yes, it's a stereotype, but also an explanation of the stereotype.)

I'd prefer to decide for myself how I look in my clothes.

Judith

Judith,

There is no trap. Why bother asking him this question is to see how honest he is. In essence, it's a test and it boils down to honesty. If he asks me the same question which I have been asked that question before, I am honest with him and I do not lie to him. It's very refreshing knowing that I can be totally honest with him and he can be totally honest with me without games, manipulation, emotion driven arguments and so forth. The right answer is to answer honestly. It's that simple.

As for his saying the wrong thing and then blowing up into an argument and then no sex for a week idea, this is a woman that plays too many games, a serious killer of a relationship. That if you answer wrong, I'm going to become overly emotional and blow up on you and I am going to withhold sex from you because you were being honest with me. Oy. Too many games being played. The relationship is doomed. But the reason he lives in fear of this is because of his experiences in his past relationships with unstable women. So he then makes a generalization and groups all women into this category that since it has happened in a great majority of his relationships that ALL women must do it so he feels and thinks that he is treading on thin ice with every women he is with and denies, evades, lies, etc. It's such a vicious cycle and a killer of the relationship. If she blows up and denies him sex because of his honesty and then he has learned that to avoid this situation is to lie and evade, they are both working against each other, they are both working towards the destruction of the relationship. Jesus, what a bad situation to be in. Not the way to thrive in a relationship at all, from being overly emotional, manipulative, game playing, lying, and evading. All things that will destroy the relationship.

Of course, you say something if he is eyeballing like you wouldn't believe because it is disrespectful to the girl. But I do not blow up on him if I catch him looking at a beautiful woman. I understand that he is a human being and is still capable of admiring beauty.

As for the, Do I look fat question. If I am going out with my guy, I will have a pretty good idea of what I want to wear. But I also want his input because I am dressing nice for him as well and I want to look sexy for him. It's similar to your knowing that he loves the little black dress but you decide to wear a dress that he likes but doesn't go ga-ga over. Me personally, I would much rather put the little black dress on and drive him wild. We all have clothes in our closet that may not be as flattering as another article of clothing. Some may make your hips look bigger than what they really are, etc. So if I ask my guy, do my hips look big or whatever, I'm looking for an honest answer.

For me, I want my man to be honest. It's that simple. Even if it is obvious to me but I still ask him the question, all I am looking for is how honest he is. It's truly so hard to find a decent man these days, one that is honest. So there is no trap and it is not dishonest to ask him such a question. The right answer is to answer honestly.

Edited by CNA
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As for his saying the wrong thing and then blowing up into an argument and then no sex for a week idea, this is a woman that plays too many games, a serious killer of a relationship. That if you answer wrong, I'm going to become overly emotional and blow up on you and I am going to withhold sex from you because you were being honest with me

Uggghhh, that is one of the worst. Like THAT is going to help. The whole putting someone on punishment thing totally sucks. It's unbelievably juvenile.

I don't get into a relationship to get "taught lessons" at gunpoint or through deprivation of one kind or another. Problem? Deal with it, and be done with it. Henry Ford said "Don't fix the blame, fix the problem."

Honesty, for sure, is the key. Try it anyway you want otherwise, it won't work, sooner or later. Ask me, I'll tell you all about it. Actually, I won't.

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Rich, I love your description and ability to nail down certain characteristics of the guy you speak about in your post. Man, you’re starting to think like a caricaturist! Don’t you find that a little frightful?

There is another archetype that I can't resist identifying: the Feminist Man. This guy has taken on women’s freedom struggles as his own, but there is a subtext to his behavior that is disturbing to most women. He is able to talk easily about how men are the problem in the world. But he tends to forget that he is a man--and so he is hardly making a very effective sales pitch for himself.

Can you imagine this guy on a date with a woman? “Say, let’s hand out leaflets on our second date and start up a second ‘take back the night’ march, Linda!” And “I agree with you, Stephanie, body hair removal is a symbol of patriarchal oppression.”

I’m not sure who decided that the private conduct of romance and dating should be politicized, but it was a lousy idea. If you are trying to make it with a person who brings their politics to bed, it’s probably best to find someone who uses more interesting things to use between the sheets—like, say, handcuffs or a multi attachment vibrator. B)

-Victor

Edited by Victor Pross
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Judith,

There is no trap. Why bother asking him this question is to see how honest he is. In essence, it's a test and it boils down to honesty. If he asks me the same question which I have been asked that question before, I am honest with him and I do not lie to him. It's very refreshing knowing that I can be totally honest with him and he can be totally honest with me without games, manipulation, emotion driven arguments and so forth. The right answer is to answer honestly. It's that simple.

As for his saying the wrong thing and then blowing up into an argument and then no sex for a week idea, this is a woman that plays too many games, a serious killer of a relationship. That if you answer wrong, I'm going to become overly emotional and blow up on you and I am going to withhold sex from you because you were being honest with me. Oy. Too many games being played. The relationship is doomed. But the reason he lives in fear of this is because of his experiences in his past relationships with unstable women. So he then makes a generalization and groups all women into this category that since it has happened in a great majority of his relationships that ALL women must do it so he feels and thinks that he is treading on thin ice with every women he is with and denies, evades, lies, etc. It's such a vicious cycle and a killer of the relationship. If she blows up and denies him sex because of his honesty and then he has learned that to avoid this situation is to lie and evade, they are both working against each other, they are both working towards the destruction of the relationship. Jesus, what a bad situation to be in. Not the way to thrive in a relationship at all, from being overly emotional, manipulative, game playing, lying, and evading. All things that will destroy the relationship.

Of course, you say something if he is eyeballing like you wouldn't believe because it is disrespectful to the girl. But I do not blow up on him if I catch him looking at a beautiful woman. I understand that he is a human being and is still capable of admiring beauty.

As for the, Do I look fat question. If I am going out with my guy, I will have a pretty good idea of what I want to wear. But I also want his input because I am dressing nice for him as well and I want to look sexy for him. It's similar to your knowing that he loves the little black dress but you decide to wear a dress that he likes but doesn't go ga-ga over. Me personally, I would much rather put the little black dress on and drive him wild. We all have clothes in our closet that may not be as flattering as another article of clothing. Some may make your hips look bigger than what they really are, etc. So if I ask my guy, do my hips look big or whatever, I'm looking for an honest answer.

For me, I want my man to be honest. It's that simple. Even if it is obvious to me but I still ask him the question, all I am looking for is how honest he is. It's truly so hard to find a decent man these days, one that is honest. So there is no trap and it is not dishonest to ask him such a question. The right answer is to answer honestly.

Angie, truer words have never been spoken (except for yesterday when I proclaimed, "I'm tha bomb!"). For me (and I have so much experience...let me learn you novices a li'l suttin' suttin'), it's not exclusively about honesty. I of course want my man to be honest, open, unafraid of me (I mean, for god's sake...grow a pair), but I also just LOVE looking at humans. I love analyzing faces, demeanor, clothing, bodies, everything! I especially love to analyze it with another person. To me, it's kind of like, "Why do you think this song is so beautiful?" It helps me get to know the other person (and myself) better. It's similar to laying on your back in the cool grass and gazing at the radiant, explosive fireworks. "Look at that one!" Then again, it can also be like scooping up steaming (or crusty!) piles of dog shit..."Look at that one... :sick: "

Another peeve: say I ask my man "Do I look fat in this?" It irks me to no end if he replies, "Honestly?" No, no, lie to me! I need my man to know that I will never ask him a question and expect a lie! You need not lie to make me feel better...I'll only be angrier when I find out that you've lied. If there's one thing you can learn from sitcoms like "Everybody Loves Raymond" it's that the woman will always find out that you've lied, boys. :lol:

Edit: Another kind of guy I dislike: The Man-Child. You know...lives with mommy, plays Magic the Gathering, has seen Star Wars a gillion times. Maybe even has a race car bed. Trust me, y'all, I'm quite a child myself sometimes...we should all be in touch with that part of ourselves (who doesn't love Legos, action figures, etc?), but I just cannot stand this dude because there is hardly a shred of grown-up in him. Did I say "grown-up"? I meant "man."

You can have your toys, but for god's sake, don't let that be your entire life!

Edited by Kori
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There is no trap. Why bother asking him this question is to see how honest he is. In essence, it's a test and it boils down to honesty. If he asks me the same question which I have been asked that question before, I am honest with him and I do not lie to him. It's very refreshing knowing that I can be totally honest with him and he can be totally honest with me without games, manipulation, emotion driven arguments and so forth. The right answer is to answer honestly. It's that simple.

Well, YOU know that, but your new guy may have been so traumatized by the kind of woman who does the withhold-sex-for-a-week kind of thing that I described, that it might not be quite fair to him to write him off completely if he doesn't pass this particular test. That's all I'm saying! :)

Judith

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There is no trap. Why bother asking him this question is to see how honest he is. In essence, it's a test and it boils down to honesty. If he asks me the same question which I have been asked that question before, I am honest with him and I do not lie to him. It's very refreshing knowing that I can be totally honest with him and he can be totally honest with me without games, manipulation, emotion driven arguments and so forth. The right answer is to answer honestly. It's that simple.

Well, YOU know that, but your new guy may have been so traumatized by the kind of woman who does the withhold-sex-for-a-week kind of thing that I described, that it might not be quite fair to him to write him off completely if he doesn't pass this particular test. That's all I'm saying! :)

Judith

Oh, no, honey, I totally understand. It's not a make or break test and this particular question will make or break the relationship. That he will get written off if he doesn't answer it honestly. Oh, no. I am well aware that his past relationships may have traumatized him and such. But as he gets to know me and how I am, he will learn that all the crap he may have been subjected to does not happen when he is with me such as the witholding of sex or that he will get the third degree if he happens to look at another woman, etc. He'll know that he can be totally honest with me without the backlash. Very few men have answered this question honestly. But Victor is one man that has answered it honestly and is very refreshing.

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Angie has asked me a lot of “test” questions to gauge my honesty.

Angie: Do you love me, Victor?

Victor: I love you with all my heart!

Angie: Do you think I’m attractive?

Victor: Attractive? You’re freaking hot!

Questions like this. Guys, let this be a lesson to you: be truthful to your women. B)

Edited by Victor Pross
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Angie has asked me a lot of “test” questions to gauge my honesty.

Angie: Do you love me, Victor?

Victor: I love you with all my heart!

Angie: Do you think I’m attractive?

Victor: Attractive? You’re freaking hot!

Questions like this. Guys, let this be a lesson to you: be truthful to your women. B)

ROFLMAO. Oh, come on now, you know I haven't asked you questions such as that. I already know that by how you respond to me.

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  • 1 month later...

OK, well Im an androgynous bisexual (typical for a goth, lol) so Id like to think this gives me a unique level of objectivity on this issue.

THINGS I HATE IN (STEREOTYPICAL) WOMEN

1. Hiding intelligence

2. Not enough ego and assertiveness

3. Too much conformity

4. Lack of understanding of my tech-toys

5. Treating sex as a bad thing (often implicitly)

In short, I hate when women do not remind me of Dagny Taggart! I WANT A DAGNY!

THINGS I HATE IN STEREOTYPICAL MEN

1. Pack mentality/herd conformity

2. Physical brutality

3. Needing to prove oneself to ones buddies

4. Lack of self-love and self-care (beyond masturbation)

5. Treating sex as an act of conquest

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I couldn't have said it better myself, Victor. It seems to me that many men and women (mostly women) are attracted to those types. I wonder why!

It's not that they are attracted to shitty people, its that hot people can get away with being a shitty person better. My coworker is dating a crazy girl who freaks out all the time at him, get's upset for stupid things, etc, but she's a stripper and is hot so he can't bring himself to break up with her yet. They place all value on physical attractiveness, and none on personal quality. The simple fact that so many people put up with this kind of behavior is what perpetuates it.

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