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Michael Stuart Kelly

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On 5/31/2021 at 1:43 AM, william.scherk said:

The pudding will be proofed when 61 votes are cast for a PM in the Knesset. You pass that test, you govern.

The insane number of parties with representation in the Israeli Knesset is either a clear sign of healthy democracy, or a jest of the gods. Netanyahu and israel just had four elections in a row, each election triggered by nobody getting 61 votes and a government after negotiations following the preceding election.

Bellicose pregmatism will win the day this time, I betcha.

If Naftali Bennett can keep a coalition going with Yair Lapid, I'll be impressed -- the party led by Lapid is "centrist" and would not embrace any of Bennett's hardcore ideas on annexation and partition. The smaller parties may well have their own generally not insane demands.

 

Useful info. Not anything I'm much concerned about, which party and PM come to the fore. Perhaps you think William that the problems can be reduced or eliminated by a change of government?

Perhaps a "left" leaning one will be more accomodating, less "insane"? Well, you'll have to take my word that not much will change for the Palestinians. A few more concessions, maybe, that's all. Left and Right in Israel's political context are not that far apart. Their methods and exhortations might differ a little, while they are bound by a common purpose and value.

Fact: until Abbas (and whomever comes after him) and Fatah AND most Palestinians come to the realization that living alongside Israel as equal states is in their best and permanent interests - nothing will change.

Any Two State solution depends -only- upon them. Do not blame Israel for dragging their feet. The PLO wants the status quo to continue, foreign aid to keep flowing, anticipating that their patience will lead in time to an Israeli-overthrow by attrition.

Fact: Nearly every Israeli, Jew and Muslim, young and old, knows that a weakened PA means the take-over by Hamas on the West Bank. Then, a continuation of terrorism and endless border wars on a second front (as followed Gaza's self-rule). 

The final fact, Leftist (and Muslim) politicians in Israel know all the above, and despite their public protestations, privately know they can never negotiate with bad faith partners. They intimately understand the character of the foes of Israel. They've been burned too often in previous Treaties and Accords.

No, don't expect an Israeli-Leftist Gvt. to commit national self-sacrifice, like appeasement of enemies and giving up more territory for peace, as could be expected by other Leftist gvts.

If you fervently wish for peace there, it is the Palestinians you should take to task.

 

 

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13 hours ago, anthony said:
13 hours ago, anthony said:

The pudding will be proofed when 61 votes are cast for a PM in the Knesset. You pass that test, you govern.

Useful info. Not anything I'm much concerned about, which party and PM come to the fore. Perhaps you think William that the problems can be reduced or eliminated by a change of government?

If I identified a problem, it is the problem of stable government or the problem of inconclusive elections. If Bennett fails, then it's back to the urns.

 

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On 6/1/2021 at 11:52 PM, anthony said:

This topic has not stirred anyone to respond. Tired with it all? What's coming is not only to Jews and Israel, you and I will all have it to deal with.

See this BLM spokeswoman, and her well-spoken and soft manner and hear what she says, and recognize evil for what it is. Take her word for it. She calls for genocide. 

 

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An anti Zionist, likely anti Semitic faux demagogue isn’t an actual threat to Israel's ability to out attrition any power in the region. Threats to peace and stability in the West are real and have been ratchet up to eleven , but that lady is a product of the ratcheting not a cause , notice the public face she is , that is her purpose . 

The Palestinian problem is a regional sovereignty problem everyone uses to beat up Israel with for political and diplomatic reasons. 

Iran is far more a threat to the existential safety and longevity of the nation state , and militarily they have the advantage , just ask  Iran’s navy and petroleum industry of late.

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Great thread and nice to see a return after a decade of silence!

They use to paint all over Europe Jew go home to Palestine.

The Jerusulem post use to be called the Palestinian Post.

We could not live anywhere for 5000 years then we got a tiny sliver of land in the middle east surrounded by 21 Arab nations.

Then the "Palestinians" got Jorden and we got Israel.

Now we cannot live there.

The simple reality is is that if the State of Israel was one synagogue on 100 square meters of land in Tel Aviv, that would be too much for the Arab world to accept.

That's the real issue.

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And it's not even about two people two states because " they " have a state.

As a matter if fact they have 22 states 

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On 6/1/2021 at 4:05 PM, william.scherk said:

If I identified a problem, it is the problem of stable government or the problem of inconclusive elections. If Bennett fails, then it's back to the urns.

William.

I agree.

Here is an indication that this will not be resolved, easily, too.

Netanyahu: New Coalition ‘Dangerous and Leftwing’

Quote

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Thursday slammed the new emerging coalition that will unseat him from power as “dangerous and leftwing,” and accused his political rival Naftali Bennett, who will succeed him as prime minister, of “selling out.”

Netanyahu convened an “emergency meeting” on Thursday with right-wing religious allies to discuss potentially thwarting the new unity government before it is sworn into office in the next 12 days.

“All Knesset members who were elected with the votes of the right must oppose this dangerous left-wing government,” he tweeted.

All it will take is one major slip in anything and it's back to the drawing board, even after 12 days.

Michael

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21 hours ago, anthony said:

This topic has not stirred anyone to respond. Tired with it all? What's coming is not only to Jews and Israel, you and I will all have it to deal with.

See this BLM spokeswoman, and her well-spoken and soft manner and hear what she says, and recognize evil for what it is. Take her word for it. She calls for genocide. 

Tony,

That lady is smoke and not much at that.

She's not the fire.

Of course she needs to be condemned. But I bet her moral primacy is money...

Godzilla she ain't. 

:) 

Michael

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https://toi.by/adIj6

 

"The country that you want me to renounce is all that stands between me and having to rely upon your kindness.

So thank you.

You and your scorn have made my case."

Featured Post

I will not be a lamb on the altar of your purity

 

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3 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

Tony,

That lady is smoke and not much at that.

She's not the fire.

Of course she needs to be condemned. But I bet her moral primacy is money...

Godzilla she ain't. 

:) 

Michael

Michael, maybe. But:

"...if we don't step up boldly and courageously to end this imperialist project called Israel, we are doomed".

I think of the millions/billions around the world, blacks, Muslims, (and whites) who are and will take this as their call to arms, to violence upon local Jews where they are. This is now incitement by the infamous/famed BLM, revered in many places, backed by Antifa, which has predictably joined forces and added further credibility to the Palestine cause.

Sometimes we've just got to take someone at their word, to realize they know and desire the consequences of their rhetoric. "Doomed"? And will organize the personnel to carry it into action. Unlike previous conflicts there, things and events are ramping up well above any previous pressures on Israel, we are heading into unknown territory and anything is possible. She knows as well as anyone that Israel is not going anywhere - 'ended' - short of a huge and deadly defensive war. (Cue Iran, who are always watching for signs of weakness from the international community, now seeing a ¬morally¬ compromised Israel - which was, as always, the single objective of the Hamas attack - and the time to strike could be soon ).

Talk about money, big tech has been throwing big money at BLM, 'capitalists' sanctioning a Marxist-racist movement.

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56 minutes ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

Tony,

Exactly.

Now that's a Godzilla worth keeping an eye on--not the people, but the anti-Semitic leaders.

The BLM lady is a puppet and grifter, not a Godzilla.

:) 

Michael

Okay, but caught in between are Jews in every western country. I don't see this BLM incitement as primarily against Israel. There's a bigger picture.

(You might have missed my edited post).

A Muslim told me once that some Islamists reckon there's no better way to eliminate world Jews then to drive them all into - "back to" - Israel by making them feel uncomfortable and threatened in the West. Then they could all be taken out in one go.

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Tony,

Everybody knows about anti-Semitism, they believe it is real, they believe it is dangerous, they believe it is escalating, and they condemn it.

People here on OL are not commenting about it because you put up a fart-in-the-wind nobody as the anti-Semitic target to bash.

:) 

Put up someone worth bashing and you will probably get a bite.

After all, that was your problem, right? You were complaining that nobody was interested in this enough to comment?

And for the record, I've now commented, but I don't think you like much what I've had to say.

:) 

(Just ribbing you. :) )

Michael

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I don't endorse this writer's opinions about the USA; only take into account that it is a growing perception out there. Especially, for the European Jews.

(Leftist Jews too are coming to the realization that Leftists are rejecting them, at the least, gone very silent re: latest anti-Semitism. What I've been opining to Jews for years. Don't worry so much about the White Supremacists and right-wingers, as the MSM puts out, it is the Left ("your" Left) who pose the greater and immediate harm).

 

https://toi.by/WdIou

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24 minutes ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

Tony,

Everybody knows about anti-Semitism, they believe it is real, they believe it is dangerous, they believe it is escalating, and they condemn it.

People here on OL are not commenting about it because you put up a fart-in-the-wind nobody as the anti-Semitic target to bash.

:) 

Put up someone worth bashing and you will probably get a bite.

After all, that was your problem, right? You were complaining that nobody was interested in this enough to comment?

And for the record, I've now commented, but I don't think you like much what I've had to say.

:) 

(Just ribbing you. :) )

Michael

If we are only a small band here which can and usually do raise our voices, farting into the wind, against the 90+% anti-Israel, anti-Jewish noise everywhere, I think I for one should.

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A letter to the Israeli Embassy. Suppose a robber walks into a bank and grabs a person standing by the door and uses him as a human shield. The robber holds the hostage in front of himself and starts shooting at the guard, trying to kill him. There is no exit for the guard. The robber just keeps shooting. The only way the guard can survive is to shoot through the hostage. Self-defense in this case requires that you shoot through an innocent noncombatant to stop the aggression.

If civilians are not targeted, then objective law properly places full moral blame for any deaths on the person who put the innocents in their positions as hostages or shields. In a sense, the aggressor is the ‘cause’ of the deaths of the innocents and is the ‘cause’ of any collateral damage that is unavoidable during the process of self-defense.

Apply this principle on a larger scale. Apply this to a war in which the civilian populations of both Israel and Palestine are used as hostages or shields by the aggressor. The Palestinians who voted for Hamas in the last election, or who now tolerate Hamas’s aggression towards Israel, are not blameless but they are still noncombatants.

There can be no peace unless there is first, a winner. Israel needs to win this war. Shoot around the innocents if possible, but win it quickly. It is the moral thing to do. Semper cogitans fidele, Peter Taylor   

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On 6/3/2021 at 5:08 AM, tmj said:

An anti Zionist, likely anti Semitic faux demagogue isn’t an actual threat to Israel's ability to out attrition any power in the region. Threats to peace and stability in the West are real and have been ratchet up to eleven , but that lady is a product of the ratcheting not a cause , notice the public face she is , that is her purpose . 

The Palestinian problem is a regional sovereignty problem everyone uses to beat up Israel with for political and diplomatic reasons. 

Iran is far more a threat to the existential safety and longevity of the nation state , and militarily they have the advantage , just ask  Iran’s navy and petroleum industry of late.

Where do you draw the line in the chain of causality? I maintain this 'lady' is both effect and cause, leading onto further cause -- etc.* Then people in societies outside of Israel will be casualties also to followers of her proclaimed morally-righteous cause, and they are my first concern.

The situation is that following latest political events, it's perceived by enemies, wrongly or rightly, that America isn't covering Israel's back any longer. (Although, Israel has never and doesn't expect, nor want, American military support). Moral support has been short, condemnation enormous from media, public and politicians. It appears foes understand western moral superiority very well, while many in the West have been relinquishing it.

Sensing vulnerability and the big moment, every scumbag person and organization and ideology is jumping in.

No, I don't see only a problem of regional sovereignty. This involves the fate of the West, at bottom. 'They' know this. Everyone else should pay heed to what they know, not laugh them off as crazies, or sameold, sameold . Things have never been this bad and are gathering steam daily.

*Right up the causal line, I ask: is the only person one can name "evil" the final cause - the initiator of the probably coming war, the Ayatollah of Iran? Cannot be. 

 

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3 minutes ago, anthony said:

This involves the fate of the West, at bottom.

We in The West have been at war since 9/11. Who started it? Who will end it?

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8 hours ago, anthony said:

...the media.

 

If I'd not been digging many sources, I might not have known this clip was out there. Not going to be seen on BBC or CNN and not reported in the NYT. You mean, the venerable New York Times, which had difficulty even reporting that Hamas started the conflict, would hush up this overt statement?

A Hamas terrorist brags that They "...form human shields". That is, the women, the children, the elderly want to do so. (Because they believe in the cause, he clearly wants us to know).

Honestly, while I've long known how civilians were used this way, I'd assumed the phrase "human shield" was concocted by Israeli observers.

The normal mind reels at the implications. No one can absorb child sacrifice.

Could it be, many might have to ask, that Gazan children are born and bred to be "shields" for the terror group's intent to wipe out Israel? (not only to have their pictures emblazoned on front pages for sympathy from the West).

Everyone already knows that kids are trained young to be "freedom fighters" - but this is too much.

Rather, most retreat to a mental safe space in which Israel is the automatic killer of children. 

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