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2 hours ago, merjet said:

I have not seen any explanation of why HCQ works. Maybe a why explanation would be “over my head” due to its technical nature, but I haven’t seen anything that even tries explaining why, even in layman terms.


 

Here's something from the November 3, 2003, Lancet about chloroquine.  HCQ works similarly, with the advantage of fewer potentially harmful side effects.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7128816/

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Chloroquine exerts direct antiviral effects, inhibiting pH-dependent steps of the replication of several viruses including members of the flaviviruses, retroviruses, and coronaviruses. Its best-studied effects are those against HIV replication, which are being tested in clinical trials. Moreover, chloroquine has immunomodulatory effects, suppressing the production/release of tumour necrosis factor α and interleukin 6, which mediate the inflammatory complications of several viral diseases. We review the available information on the effects of chloroquine on viral infections, raising the question of whether this old drug may experience a revival in the clinical management of viral diseases such as AIDS and severe acute respiratory syndrome, which afflict mankind in the era of globalisation.

Ellen

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Verified is a funny word , nowadays, perhaps always, but definitely nowadays.

The single greatest advance in medicine was the germ theory of disease. It's precursor was smallpox vaccination. There is no handling flu with vaccine, just the pretense, but the pretense is a ho

Indeed. I may be skeptical about aspects of the story, but not the story itself.

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34 minutes ago, merjet said:

Was what I referred to -- what you wrote about Cavuto -- a slur? 😄

Melin,

Elitist globalists are elitist globalists.

And Cavuto is an elitist globalist.

They seem to ring your ding-a-ling a lot, so I don't mind if you make your bed with them.

One can refine the taste of another, but one can't teach it.

:) 

Elitist globalists like to keep from being identified as elitist globalists because they worry about a revolt from the human livestock they fancy themselves breeding.

So I like to identify elitist globalists. I come from the human livestock they look down on. I grew up in a trailer park and my father worked in a factory. But I have lived among elistists and have been accepted by them as one of them. Man are they deceitful... That got tiresome, so I went back to my roots among the producers of the world.

At times, there are those who like and admire elitist globalists and get all hissied up and say I'm smearing them or using a slur when I characterize them as elitist globalists.

And, of these, some get awfully cute when they get all hissied up...

I guess it's a taste thing...

:) 

Michael

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26 minutes ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

[Blah, blah, blah, blah.]

Your slur was about Cavuto having a lot of insider investments, not about his being a "global elitist."

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On 8/19/2020 at 3:57 AM, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

... for Anderson Cooper to devote this much time (over 20 minutes) to Mike Lindell, and for Cooper to be so transparently and maliciously snarky (calling Mike a snake oil salesman and things like that to his face), Cooper is shitting his pants in fear of something.

Just look at his rage. 

Here's another side to that story.

No!...

CNN smears people?

:)

Regardless. To the eternal dismay of the gotcha warriors, hydroxychloroquine is coming as a widespread treatment for COVID-19 and it looks like oleandrin might be coming, too.

Man, do gotcha warriors hate that. They want to control the actual seeking of cures and they want to dole out therapy to people suffering. And they want to dole it out at their whim. Just to show who's in charge.

They say their objection is due to science, but disobedience is the real problem. They want to be obeyed. They crave this. And they don't mind people dying when they are disobeyed. Hell, at root, they don't even mind people dying when they are inept and obeyed.

But it gets worse for them. When, in seeking cures, someone like Mike Lindell looks at Anderson Cooper and essentially says, "I use my eyes to see, not yours," and Cooper responds with, "You must use my eyes as yours, I demand it," and Lindell essentially says, "But I don't think of you," they go nuts. They get filled with rage as Cooper was.

At that point, I think they want to kill the one who ignores them and plows ahead seeking good things for mankind on his own.

Michael

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7 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

At that point, I think they want to kill the one who ignores them and plows ahead seeking good things for mankind on his own.

Michael

“Why do you want to kill Howard?”

“I don’t want to kill him. I want him in jail. You understand? In jail. In a cell. Behind bars. Locked, stopped, strapped—and alive. He’ll get up when they tell him to. He’ll eat what they give him. He’ll move when he’s told to move and stop when he’s told. He’ll walk to the jute mill, when he’s told, and he’ll work as he’s told. They’ll push him, if he doesn’t move fast enough, and they’ll slap his face when they feel like it, and they’ll beat him with rubber hose if he doesn’t obey. And he’ll obey. He’ll take orders. He’ll take orders!”
“Ellsworth!” Keating screamed. “Ellsworth!”

Ayn Rand. The Fountainhead (Kindle Locations 13719-13723). Plume.

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13 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

To the eternal dismay of the gotcha warriors, hydroxychloroquine is coming as a widespread treatment for COVID-19 and it looks like oleandrin might be coming, too.

I predict that Oleandrin is not coming soon as a treatment for COVID-19.

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Man, do gotcha warriors hate that. They want to control the actual seeking of cures and they want to dole out therapy to people suffering. And they want to dole it out at their whim. Just to show who's in charge.

I appreciate your opinion, but I would argue that rigorous safety testing is the first hurdle of any prospective treatment. For Hydroxychloroquine there are a number of studies underway or completed (viewable at the ClinicalTrials.gov site via the NIH/NLM).

Spoiler

covidNIHclinicalHCQ.png

covidNIHclinicalOleandrin.png

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They say their objection is due to science, but disobedience is the real problem. They want to be obeyed. They crave this. And they don't mind people dying when they are disobeyed. Hell, at root, they don't even mind people dying when they are inept and obeyed.

There is a difference between 'gotcha warriors' and 'critical questioning.'  At least in my mind.

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But it gets worse for them. When, in seeking cures, someone like Mike Lindell looks at Anderson Cooper and essentially says, "I use my eyes to see, not yours," and Cooper responds with, "You must use my eyes as yours, I demand it," and Lindell essentially says, "But I don't think of you," they go nuts. They get filled with rage as Cooper was.

The thing for me was that Lindell had not yet shared pertinent and useful details of whatever Oleandrin 'testing' is underway by Lindell's telling. Where is the material that other people can examine? Where's the beef?  If I have missed Lindell or the folks at Pheonix Biotechnology giving specifics, please add a comment with the details.

I should mention that the botanical extract has been studied for in vivo tolerability and safety in patients (so-called Phase One and Phase Two trials) ... but for cancer. Details can be found in the Journal of Antivirals & Antiretrovirals, "First-in-human study of pbi-05204, an oleander-derived inhibitor of akt, fgf-2, nf-κΒ and p70s6k, in patients with advanced solid tumors." The citation is from PubMed.

See also other research in vitro ... for HIV infection.

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At that point, I think they want to kill the one who ignores them and plows ahead seeking good things for mankind on his own.

Toxic, deadly plant extract cures COVID-19! It's a miracle. Details ... probably never.

As Ben Carson said last week in an interview:

 "It's not time for it yet ... you need to go to the next step, you need to go through the process."

"What hopefully will happen is that clinical trials will occur. This should go the same route as other things do. We shouldn't, you know, skip the process."

"You know, what happened with Mike Lindell, who is a fantastic salesperson, but not a scientist, perhaps distorts the process."

"I mean it's one of the things that you hear about oleander all the time is that it's poison. So I think most people probably aren't anxious to take poison, right? So I think they are going to wait until the process is done."

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1 hour ago, william.scherk said:

There is a difference between 'gotcha warriors' and 'critical questioning.'  At least in my mind.

William,

That's exactly right. But when people who otherwise do critical thinking get in front of a subhuman like Mike Lindell, they turn off their brains.

Hell, you do, yourself.

After all, he's subhuman, right?

As for Ben Carson, now you quote him. You wouldn't before. You wouldn't go near him. You won't understand this... well, maybe you will... but his thing about going through the process is PRECISELY WHY Mike Lindell took the project to him. But "muh Christians" made all the alleged critical thinkers see red.

You guys want power and adulation, especially for muh critical thinking, but then act like babies when the spotlight is on you.

That's the problem and that is why President Trump is in office and will get a second term.

If you allow yourself to see it, you will know what I am talking about. It's very easy to correct. and there is a lot of value to people like you when you don't holler muh snake oil salesman at the drop of a hat because of "muh Christians."

If you don't allow yourself to see it, well, I am being brainwashed by the subhumans, right?

People like Mike Lindell, Ben Carson and President Trump are great men. They are not subhumans. They are not subhuman because they are Christians and Mike and the President are not subhuman because they know how to sell products they manufacture. On the contrary, knowing how to produce and sell is part of why they are great men.

Michael

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On 8/26/2020 at 1:48 AM, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

Here's another side to that story.

The other side of the story regarding Lindell is that Lindell got a friendly interviewer instead of the hostile Anderson Cooper. That’s unless MSK believes that Lindell made a “scientific” case for using oleandrin against Covid-19. 🙂 If so, by what standard? Denigrating CNN, even when deserved, does not raise Lindell’s credibility.

Calling something a “gotcha” is MSK’s overused way of dismissing something totally by finding some fault (often minor) and regardless of any merit that something has. Of course, he probably hopes readers will do likewise. A rational defense of Lindell touting oleandrin is a lost cause. So MSK tries to "win" by attacking CNN, “global elitists,” and people who want control of others (with a huge exception for people MSK likes).

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19 minutes ago, merjet said:

That’s unless MSK believes that Lindell made a “scientific” case for using oleandrin against Covid-19. [blah blah blah]

Merlin,

You loves you some strawmen, don't you?

This isn't the first time you've done this.

Why not go up against a real man instead of a scarecrow you yourself make?

You've got the brains to do it.

But for some reason, you rarely do.

Michael

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4 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

Merlin,

You loves you some strawmen, don't you?

Note that MSK quoted me and dropped the smiley face. It was a joke! 

It alluded to MSK's saying to me, "But I didn't hear you say hydroxychloroquine... it's scientific." 

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4 hours ago, merjet said:

Note that MSK quoted me and dropped the smiley face. It was a joke! 

It alluded to MSK's saying to me, "But I didn't hear you say hydroxychloroquine... it's scientific." 

Merlin,

If it was a joke, I suggest studying humor a bit.

The following kind of text doesn't follow jokes. It belongs into a completely different context.

Quote

 

If so, by what standard? Denigrating CNN, even when deserved, does not raise Lindell’s credibility.

Calling something a “gotcha” is MSK’s overused way of dismissing something totally by finding some fault (often minor) and regardless of any merit that something has. Of course, he probably hopes readers will do likewise. A rational defense of Lindell touting oleandrin is a lost cause. So MSK tries to "win" by attacking CNN, “global elitists,” and people who want control of others (with a huge exception for people MSK likes).

 

Is that all a joke to you, too?

Come on...

If I had to put a name on it, I would probably call it "gratuitous bitchy criticism signifying nothing."

:) 

Michael

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The Tragic Hydroxychloroquine Debate and Dr. Fauci's Denial of Evidence

Earlier in this thread MSK posted an interview of Dr. Risch by John Berman of CNN.  Berman used randomized clinical trials (RCT) as a favorite "weapon" against Dr. Risch. The first comment on the above article is: "So, where are the randomized clinical trials demonstrating the efficacy of masks and social distancing? If an RCT is required before we do interventions why haven't we done an RCT for that?" 🙂

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12 hours ago, merjet said:
On 8/27/2020 at 2:27 PM, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

Is that all a joke to you, too?

No. Most of it wasn't.

Merlin,

Good.

Now repeat after me.

Setup, payoff.
Setup, payoff.
Setup, payoff.
Setup, payoff.
Setup, payoff.
Setup, payoff.
Setup, payoff.

That will make the joke clear and sometimes even funny.

Granted, not all quips are formally set up like a joke is, but they need to be implicitly set up, otherwise they will fizzle and often people will not even know they are quips.

The setup is essentially misdirection. You make people anticipate one thing, then hit them with something else that has a hook in the setup, but has a distance from real-life danger. For instance, the following is not a joke, but it is humor and works the same way.

A person getting shot is generally not funny even when the setup is an observer expectation of the person not getting shot. However, dorks trying to literally embrace a dangerous armed enemy while going on about peace and love, then getting shot, can be quite funny (in a dark kind of way) if we are irritated by their constant condescension and we are distant from the dorks. (In fact, the movie Mars Attacks! was nothing but this kind of humor.) We kinda expect them not to get shot because of the many times enduring their condescending preaching at us, even when we simultaneously know that people with guns and ill intent shoot others.

If one of the dorks is a brother or friend, however, there is nothing funny about it.

Regardless of explicit or implicit setup, the pattern "setup --> payoff" and distance from real-life danger never changes for humor to work.

Even slapstick.

Michael

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On 8/26/2020 at 4:11 PM, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

People like Mike Lindell, Ben Carson and President Trump are great men.

Poor Mike Lindell.

I think he is losing his innocence. I'm sorry to see it go.

It's starting to dawn on Mike that these awful people do not want a supplement tested.

If it's not from them, they don't want the FDA to test anything.

They don't give a shit about people dying.

In their minds, they rule the FDA. No one else. And if you don't like it, die.

Also, when people like Mike Lindell come around, they just want to laugh at him and feel superior.

Mike doesn't want to believe that because he believes in the goodness of people.

But these people are not good,. They don't give a shit about good.

They are evil.

They know they are evil.

They like being evil.

Now Mike's seeing it up close and now his innocence is going...

He shouldn't feel bad about an awful person like Anderson Cooper calling him a snake oil salesman, though. Cooper has been selling rat poison for years as spaghetti sauce. And he's been selling it by the ship container on International TV. He still sells it.

What a disgusting human being.

Words have no way to express the contempt I have for that person.

Michael

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11 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

But these people are not good,. They don't give a shit about good.

They are evil.

They know they are evil.

They like being evil.

The Fundamental Attribution Error.

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1 hour ago, william.scherk said:

The Fundamental Attribution Error.

William,

No,

It's a fundamental fed up and pissed off identification.

I despise people who kill innocents.

I despise people who promote endless war for profit.

I despise people who who use mankind as lab rats for profit.

And the dead for these people? Oh... oops... next batch.

When I look at people like that, I know for certain:

They don't give a shit about good.

They are evil.

They know they are evil.

They like being evil.

Fuck them.

Michael

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William,

To add to my post above, I find your contempt for people like Mike Lindell and admiration for the elitist globalists a serious problem of blank-out.

You're like a turkey on a farm and totally unaware that Thanksgiving is coming.

You dug into the implanted memory thing, attributed it to Christianity versus Science, and with that settled, turned off your brain about identifying the character of people. Now you excuse muh science for turning into a religion far more toxic than Christianity. It doesn't have to be a religion, but that's what it has become as one hoax after another is perpetrated on mankind in the name of muh science.

The issue of misleading the public, whether it is called implanted memories or gaslighting or propaganda or the big lie or "the science is settled" any other term you may like, is based on character, not ideology. Ideology is the tool. The person using the tool did not have his character shaped by the tool. He chose to be evil.

What I see you do is shit on good people because muh Christians and raise up the worst kind of Randian villain, sleaze and power-monger because of muh science. Neither Christianity nor science have anything to do with evil people being evil. They are bad people because they chose to be bad people.

They are indifferent to killing innocents (with a million and one rationalizations where they project an image of caring) and they like to bully innocents because, you know, they feel they are superior and all. And they loves them some unearned money and power.

But you like to blank out the fact that they choose this--even when they tell you they chose it right to your face.

That is poor epistemology.

You judge the character of people by the wrong standard. They are not molded to be bad by Christianity or science. They choose to be bad.

To go to the duh level, there are Christians who are good people and Christians who are scum. There are scientists who are good people and there are scientists who are scum.

But an evil person is always an evil person. The only way for such a person to change is to choose to be good.

There are no good evil people.

Now call that a Fundamental Attribution Error as you blank out one of the most basic of all human skills we learn from infancy on up, judging the character of a man based on whether he purposely harms us and others by default, or chooses to respect us and others.

Michael

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