Coronavirus


Peter

Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

... adopting the term "social metaphysics" and setting it up as a villain. (Incidentally, as I am sure you know, Barbara came up with that term.--EDIT: Oops. On second thought, I don't think that was Barbara. Her term was psycho-epistemology. :) )

Since people generally don't reread posts unless they have a good reason to, I'm posting this to let those who already read my post know I goofed and corrected it.

Michael

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

Since people generally don't reread posts unless they have a good reason to, I'm posting this to let those who already read my post know I goofed and corrected it.

Michael

It was Nathaniel Branden who coined "social metaphysics", correct?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, ThatGuy said:

It was Nathaniel Branden who coined "social metaphysics", correct?

TG,

That sounds about right. I think so, but I'll have to check someday. 

Rand definitely adopted it, though.

You know what's odd? If I had learned about this within a context of learning an idea I was interested in, I would have no doubt at all right now. 

But I learned about it during a time when the overwhelming subtext in the environment for discussions--and that means discussion about any issue at all--was "defend Rand's honor," "the Brandens are immoral," "Rand did not feel jealousy," and bullshit like that.

In other words, I learned the ins and outs of this concept in the middle of a religious war, not in the middle of an intellectual endeavor. 

The details simply did not anchor in my memory. They are kinda there, but not with the same clarity I have about, say, Rand describing Objectivism while standing on one foot (objective reality, reason, self-interest and capitalism). So I will need to look this stuff up to have certainty. I guess my subconscious determined it was plenty busy with my own bullshit, thus it didn't have much room to worry about bullshit coming from others.

:) 

Michael

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 12/2/2021 at 9:19 AM, tmj said:

I wouldn't be surprised if basic incompetence isn't saving lives and helping to do less harm.

The handling and storage protocols for at least the mRNA formulations are pretty stringent and the formulations themselves are fragile outside of those strictures.

I hope what that means is that given the level of professionalism among staffing and state of storage equipment at the 'jab' clinics that , hopefully, a lot of the injections were inert.

I'm in my local Rite Aid quite frequently , the staff is very nice and as helpful as I would want, but guaranteed expert cryogenic handlers isn't a label I would faithfully attach to them , but nice people for sure.

Had to get a prescription filled at my local pharmacy last night , as usual with called- in scripts it wasn't ready , but my being there prompted the nice lady to say she'd do it next.

Behind the counter on the floor were multiple boxes , some labeled syringes and some of the thermal shipping boxes for the vaxx vials. They were all stacked up in a nice little pile. Now if you go to the CDC website and read the instructions for handling these boxes , it is stated to never stack any of the shipping containers and that the longest time any unopened box can be at room temperature before being stored in an "ultra-freezer" environment is 5 minutes , the nice lady was as quick as she could be but it took about 10 minutes for my script to get handled and when I left the stack was still there in plain sight and no telling how long before I arrived it did. Hopefully a lot of the stock became inert.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, tmj said:

Had to get a prescription filled at my local pharmacy last night , as usual with called- in scripts it wasn't ready , but my being there prompted the nice lady to say she'd do it next.

Behind the counter on the floor were multiple boxes , some labeled syringes and some of the thermal shipping boxes for the vaxx vials. They were all stacked up in a nice little pile. Now if you go to the CDC website and read the instructions for handling these boxes , it is stated to never stack any of the shipping containers and that the longest time any unopened box can be at room temperature before being stored in an "ultra-freezer" environment is 5 minutes , the nice lady was as quick as she could be but it took about 10 minutes for my script to get handled and when I left the stack was still there in plain sight and no telling how long before I arrived it did. Hopefully a lot of the stock became inert.

Remember that scene in IT'S A WONDERFUL LIFE at the drugstore, where the pharmacist, Mr. Gower, boxed George Bailey's ears for not delivering the medicine, but it turned out they were accidentally poisoned, and thus, George wound up saving a life? (HOT DOG!!!)

Pepperidge Farm remembers...

 

 

  • Smile 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/4/2022 at 8:19 AM, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

What you are referring to is transhumanism and I will have some ideas on that in another thread. In general, I am for using technology to achieve life extension, better health, enhanced capacities, etc. I am not in favor of discarding the human species and creating a brand new species as many transhumanists now aspire to (and they say it plainly, too).

 

On 1/4/2022 at 8:19 AM, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

You are scratching the top of the iceberg of one of the real issues with all philosophy and religion. I believe most people go into the different systems of ideas and religions in order to improve themselves. And the rub is that they use the wrong term, they use that damn term "improve." A better term for organic thinking would be "develop" or something along those lines. Why? Because along the way, these systems become signals of superiority for way too many practitioners. And from just looking, many of them are not superior in anything at all. They just think they are. So essentially they keep the signal as their own identity and forego the quest.

Just so I'm reading your clearly: you don't have a problem with improvements per se, as in fixing genetic defects or handicaps (when "developments" go wrong), or even overcoming natural limitations, but "improvements" imposed in a top-down manner, or improvements that ignore the risks/tradeoffs?

As for improvements used to assert superiority: isn't that part of evolution-as-survival, "building the better mousetrap", so to speak? Even without the idea of "social metaphysics" or inferiority complex? "Survival of the fittest"? (Yes, I am aware that that's an abused concept, *cough*Hitler*cough*, when it's supposed to mean not the strongest, but those who adapt the best will pass on their genes...) If individuals were only to develop along genetic guidelines, they would only develop to be fit for certain environments and contexts, and be hard-pressed to survive changes without improvements, I would think...
(And even morally speaking; something like the abolition of slavery would be an improvement, as opposed to a development...and I'd have no problem with the idea of abolition being "superior", as it allowed people to develop as individuals.)

So, would it be fair to say it's not "either-or", but both?

Also, there's the issue of WHAT is being developed and/or improved (gotta watch for "Floating abstractions", and all that):  to what end, for what value, , and their context.  In a benevolent context, "improve" doesn't have to be a dirty word. To quote Roark: “The creator’s concern is the conquest of nature. The parasite’s concern is the conquest of men." "Conquest" is treated as a bad word, but in the first, it's not. (But it has to be taken in the context of "nature, to be commanded, must be obeyed.") And I will acknowledge the risk, there, in what Michael is talking about, re: the idea of hubris and "playing God", and how that can go...or, as Rand also liked to quote, "God said 'take what you want, and pay for it.'"

 


(That said, I get what you're saying about "improvement" as a tool of unearned "superiority", whether in O-land or elsewhere.)
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Rand, improvements, and teleology:
This is all tangential to the coronavirus thread here, I know. But while looking for the artist/made-up muscle quote (unsuccessfully, so far), I came across these quotes re improvement in THE ROMANTIC MANIFESTO. They might be of interest to this part of the conversation, as they do demonstrate what Michael is saying about improvement in O'ism...

Quote

When the emotional abstraction projected by the music corresponds to one’s sense of life, the abstraction acquires a full, bright, almost violent reality—and one feels, at times, an emotion of greater intensity than any experienced existentially. When the emotional abstraction projected by the music is irrelevant to or contradicts one’s sense of life, one feels nothing except a dim uneasiness or resentment or a special kind of enervating boredom. As corroborating evidence: I have observed a number of cases involving persons who, over a period of time, underwent a significant change in their fundamental view of life (some, in the direction of improvement; others, of deterioration). Their musical preferences changed accordingly; the change was gradual, automatic and subconscious, without any decision or conscious intention on their part.

 

Quote

It is in regard to his choice of subject that a novelist must exercise no choice, they claim. Why? The Naturalists have never given an answer to that question—not a rational, logical, noncontradictory answer. Why should a writer photograph his subjects indiscriminately and unselectively? Because they “really” happened? To record what really happened is the job of a reporter or of a historian, not of a novelist. To enlighten readers and educate them? That is the job of science, not of literature, of nonfiction writing, not of fiction. To improve men’s lot by exposing their misery? But that is a value-judgment and a moral purpose and a didactic “message”—all of which are forbidden by the Naturalist doctrine. Besides, to improve anything one must know what constitutes an improvement—and to know that, one must know what is the good and how to achieve it—and to know that, one must have a whole system of value-judgments, a system of ethics, which is anathema to the Naturalists.

 

Quote

Consider the significance of the fact that the Naturalists call Romantic art an “escape.” Ask yourself what sort of metaphysics—what view of life—that designation confesses. An escape—from what? If the projection of value-goals—the projection of an improvement on the given, the known, the immediately available—is an “escape,” then medicine is an “escape” from disease, agriculture is an “escape” from hunger, knowledge is an “escape” from ignorance, ambition is an “escape” from sloth, and life is an “escape” from death. If so, then a hard-core realist is a vermin-eaten brute who sits motionless in a mud puddle, contemplates a pigsty and whines that “such is life.” If that is realism, then I am an escapist. So was Aristotle. So was Christopher Columbus.


 

Quote

“…that scene proved to be the one most widely understood and most frequently mentioned by the readers of The Fountainhead.

It is the opening scene of Part IV, between Howard Roark and the boy on the bicycle.

The boy thought that “man’s work should be a higher step, an improvement on nature, not a degradation. He did not want to despise men; he wanted to love and admire them. But he dreaded the sight of the first house, poolroom and movie poster he would encounter on his way. . . . He had always wanted to write music, and he could give no other identity to the thing he sought. . . . Let me see that in one single act of man on earth. Let me see it made real. Let me see the answer to the promise of that music. . . . Don’t work for my happiness, my brothers—show me yours—show me that it is possible—show me your achievement—and the knowledge will give me courage for mine.” This is the meaning of art in man’s life.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/3/2022 at 11:03 AM, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

Actually, even though I'm no scientist re evolution, genes, etc., from what I have read so far, individuals can evolve brainwise through neuroplasticity (where the mind changes the brain).

I think a lot of patterns exist at different levels of abstraction. The process of natural selection happens constantly in our own consciousness. We have thoughts bouncing around in our head all the time, apparently randomly, and a selection process happens somehow. Memetics is a social example.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, ThatGuy said:

It was Nathaniel Branden who coined "social metaphysics", correct?

Yes. Rand considered it a big improvement on the second-handism on which The Fountainhead was based. But both terms belonged in the novel not actually applied to human beings, especially those undergoing psychotherapy. NB wasn't using it in the mid 1970s on if not earlier.

--Brant

I much prefer the original and think "social metaphysics" should be discarded for adding no value to the issue

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 12/16/2021 at 8:51 PM, Dglgmut said:

Question (not sure if this has been answered here yet): Does anyone know if hospital patience who tested positive for COVID while in hospital, but not being originally admitted for COVID, were counted towards COVID hospitalizations? I have heard many times that hospitalizations are the best metric for measuring the effect of the virus on an area... but I can't believe that people who just happened to test positive while already in the hospital (especially considering there has been a higher chance of contracting the virus while in hospital), would be tracked differently than those who were admitted for COVID.

I don't know for sure, but if my feeling is correct, then even hospitalizations may be way over represented...

Well, here's the definitive answer:

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lookee here:

That's one way to circumvent Big Tech censorship.

:)

I added the link to a couple of posts above, including the original one with the video of the interview. But the link below also has the video (hosted on Spotify, so hopefully it will not be removed like YouTube would probably do), so no need to repeat here. Enjoy.

Joe Rogan Experience #1757 – Dr. Robert Malone, MD Full Transcript

Michael

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/4/2022 at 4:20 AM, tmj said:

The  capacity to manipulate our ‘environment’ is a freak adaptation , or the result of multiple random mutations and their eventual expression. Species qua species , that(those) adaptation(s)may be optimally sufficient to rack up points in the longevity category.

Species like sharks and alligators have pretty good runs , could be something to a strategy of being reactive to the environment , after all trade offs are considered .

This freak of nature being the evolved human consciousness, the first that knows ¬how¬ to study our environment and ¬what¬ to do to change it.  And why that's an absolute necessity for long survival and thriving (i.e. 'knowing' value/self-value). This is the self-aware and self-determining species.

Good mention, instances and added proof of the mutation hypothesis: the shark and crocodile, the throwbacks. A window into early evolution, two species In total command of their (generally stable) environments, tops of the predator chain - their species mutations apparently halted, permanently stuck in their present form. Their mutant ('adaptive') survival-necessity was made unnecessary by their success.

How does that apply to the species mankind? Aren't 'we' already "as good as it gets"? (To stress - meant in ¬evolutionary¬ terms only).

We have the volitional rational mind - what more do we need and want? (barring the individual will to use it). What more can nature have in store for us, evolutionarily? In this one respect I'd consider mankind are sharks.

The improvements (or self-destruction, for that matter) by men and for men aren't of course to be confused with man's 'evolution'. Those are the biological, technological and computational augmentations of body and brain that are/will be discovered and contrived. By way of that evolved capacity, the human consciousness.

(it is the common error, species-determinism, I think has to be recognized. Plotting backwards, one sees and learns from scientists a little of what brought all life and humans here to this point (over eons). It may seem everything living was destined to turn out exactly this way ... because it DID.  But imagine going back and starting forwards from any given point for any species - there had to be zillions of random wrong turns and dead-ends which came to nothing involved in their evolution. Causation was always around).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tony

I meant to say in my comment  " Species qua species , that(those) adaptation(s)may not be optimally sufficient to rack up points in the longevity category. "

In general it can be said that the current species of alligators or sharks are relatively 'static' , in that I think it is recognized that their lineages haven't 'changed' much in the last couple million years and that comparatively homo sapiens have 'changed more' , more recently , so by the metric or standard of persistence through time , it has yet to be 'proven' that volitional consciousness is a successful determinate.

"We" burst on the scene and "our" freak mutations and their expression, phenotypically, allow for an explosive flourishing , but perhaps are not guaranteed to avoid an as yet unidentified or qualified 'trade off' or weakness inherent in the mix.

An example would be one that Eric Weinstein cites often as the "twin nuclei problem".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

40 minutes ago, tmj said:

In general it can be said that the current species of alligators or sharks are relatively 'static' , in that I think it is recognized that their lineages haven't 'changed' much in the last couple million years and that comparatively homo sapiens have 'changed more' , more recently , so by the metric or standard of persistence through time , it has yet to be 'proven' that volitional consciousness is a successful determinate.

Makes me think of marsupials, like Koalas, which I've seen described somewhere as "Evolutionary dead-ends", clinging on to trees for dear life, both physical and metaphorically...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was going to get a few Powerball tickets but now I am wondering about the sagacity of that. One in a million vs. crossover infection? For Delmarva the Covid-19 positivity rates counting all needing hospitalization, are in the upper twenty percent range, which is much worse than prior weeks. Except for the holiday events and one shopping spree we have stayed fairly isolated. As I mentioned, my daughter and her husband have come down with a coronavirus even though they had been tested negative three days prior . . . but their 12 year old daughter is still negative.

The school district is requiring my granddaughter also stay isolated. Bummer. She takes music lessons and higher math lessons at a small mall in Salisbury and some old dude rammed the building destroying the little outlet store she went to so that option is gone for now.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Audacity:
 

"French President Emmanuel Macron declared the remaining 5 million unvaccinated Frenchmen are no longer citizens. While increasing his rhetoric against citizens who make medical choices for themselves, he said he wants to “piss them off.”

"Macron also promised to fight over the issue until everyone is vaccinated in the country and called it his strategy. The French president has no power to revoke citizenship in reality, but his comments still rubbed many the wrong way. This particularly included center right presidential candidate Valerie Pecresse who commented on matter."

Read more here:
 

AP22005258547304.jpg
WWW.OANN.COM

French President Emmanuel Macron declared the remaining 5 million unvaccinated Frenchmen are no longer citizens. While increasing his...

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ellen, I'd be interested to hear your take on this, if you're reading this...
 

"Texas scientists rolled out a new COVID-19 vaccine, saying it’s patent-free and can be produced by any manufacturer in any country. The vaccine, called Corbevax, was developed by the Texas Children’s Hospital and Baylor College of Medicine.

"It has successfully passed human trials as safe and effective. The new treatment is based off protein-based technology that has been used in other vaccines for decades and it does not use MRNA.

"India has already authorized production of 100 million doses per month of the new vaccine. Meanwhile, Texas scientists say not-for-profit vaccines will help defeat COVID-19 quicker."

Read more here:

 

 

AP21333611069598-1024x630.jpg
WWW.OANN.COM

Texas scientists rolled out a new COVID-19 vaccine, saying it's patent-free and can be produced by any manufacturer in any country. The...

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, ThatGuy said:

Ellen, I'd be interested to hear your take on this, if you're reading this...
 

"Texas scientists rolled out a new COVID-19 vaccine, saying it’s patent-free and can be produced by any manufacturer in any country. The vaccine, called Corbevax, was developed by the Texas Children’s Hospital and Baylor College of Medicine.

"It has successfully passed human trials as safe and effective. The new treatment is based off protein-based technology that has been used in other vaccines for decades and it does not use MRNA.

"India has already authorized production of 100 million doses per month of the new vaccine. Meanwhile, Texas scientists say not-for-profit vaccines will help defeat COVID-19 quicker."

Read more here:

 

 

AP21333611069598-1024x630.jpg
WWW.OANN.COM

Texas scientists rolled out a new COVID-19 vaccine, saying it's patent-free and can be produced by any manufacturer in any country. The...

 

 

I miss Ellen! 

Hope that you are doing well! 

I want to be a citizen of Texas, I can hardly wait for President Trump to return before September this year.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, tmj said:

Tony

I meant to say in my comment  " Species qua species , that(those) adaptation(s)may not be optimally sufficient to rack up points in the longevity category. "

In general it can be said that the current species of alligators or sharks are relatively 'static' , in that I think it is recognized that their lineages haven't 'changed' much in the last couple million years and that comparatively homo sapiens have 'changed more' , more recently , so by the metric or standard of persistence through time , it has yet to be 'proven' that volitional consciousness is a successful determinate.

"We" burst on the scene and "our" freak mutations and their expression, phenotypically, allow for an explosive flourishing , but perhaps are not guaranteed to avoid an as yet unidentified or qualified 'trade off' or weakness inherent in the mix.

An example would be one that Eric Weinstein cites often as the "twin nuclei problem".

Alright, except that the volitional consciousness has been ostensively proven successful. The single inherent weakness or fault line, has been (and will be) man's complete rejection of man's consciousness, turning against his very nature. As in, if those sharks cease to swim that would mark the end of their species.

Species longevity is in 'our' hands and who'd want it any other way?  Nor could I imagine anything different. It is more than likely that determinism, the idea that 'we' humans were, anyhow, predestined for long survival and greatness ¬ no matter what we do or don't do ¬ will be the one and only block on their achievement. 

Ultimately the quantity of mankind's time I think isn't the final criterion - the quality is. Not as much how long do we live, but how well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, ThatGuy said:

Audacity:
 

"French President Emmanuel Macron declared the remaining 5 million unvaccinated Frenchmen are no longer citizens. While increasing his rhetoric against citizens who make medical choices for themselves, he said he wants to “piss them off.”

"Macron also promised to fight over the issue until everyone is vaccinated in the country and called it his strategy. The French president has no power to revoke citizenship in reality, but his comments still rubbed many the wrong way. This particularly included center right presidential candidate Valerie Pecresse who commented on matter."

Read more here:
 

AP22005258547304.jpg
WWW.OANN.COM

French President Emmanuel Macron declared the remaining 5 million unvaccinated Frenchmen are no longer citizens. While increasing his...

 

Still at it?

Pay no attention to the evidence, who cares for the facts: of how the vaccinated, majorly, are infecting the vaccinated.

We are going to punish them, those vaxx disbelievers, no matter what, even now.

I'm still astounded, despite experience with sacrificial, neo-marxist leftists, how religiously vengeful and wrathful they can be to agnostics of their faith.

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Non won-dare dat Francais president is so peesed off.

From Yahoo News. A variant of the coronavirus recently discovered in France does not appear to be poised for a major breakout, at least partially quelling concerns that a new surge was imminent even as the earlier surges caused by the Delta and Omicron variants continued around the world. “That virus has had a lot of chances to pick up,” a World Health Organization official said on Tuesday of the new variant, nicknamed I.H.U. for the French research center where it was discovered late last year. The variant is thought to have originated in the African nation of Cameroon; it was carried to southeastern France by a vaccinated traveler who “developed mild respiratory symptoms,” according to a study by the French researchers who identified the strain.

BRASILIA, Jan 5 (Reuters) - Brazil had 27,267 new cases of the novel coronavirus reported in the past 24 hours and 129 deaths from COVID-19, the Health Ministry said on Wednesday. The South American country has now registered 22,351,104 cases since the pandemic began, while the official death toll has risen to 619,513, according to ministry data.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, anthony said:

Still at it?

Pay no attention to the evidence, who cares for the facts: of how the vaccinated, majorly, are infecting the vaccinated.

We are going to punish them, those vaxx disbelievers, no matter what, even now.

I'm still astounded, despite experience with sacrificial, neo-marxist leftists, how religiously vengeful and wrathful they can be to agnostics of their faith.

Check out what PM Trudeau said the other day re the non vaxxed.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mais naturellement, Macron is pissed off.

Avec les citoyens who have the effrontery to believe their lives are their own. They must be made to understand they belong to the state.

"L'etat, c'est moi!"

 

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now