Coronavirus

[Ellen Stuttle]

1 hour ago, Ellen Stuttle said:

I wasn't talking about apologizing to the establishment left or the Deep State.

You sure do work up a lather.

Ellen

 

Added thought:

In 2016, one of the approving remarks about Trump which I heard over and over was, "He tells the truth."

Now I'm being lectured, when saying that I think that he should tell the truth about the pseudo-vaccines, that doing so (at least now) wouldn’t be…political.

Ellen

[Mark]

Anthony Fauci is not the only psychopath Trump hired and let run loose.  The following is by Ron Unz:

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... in 2017 Trump brought in Robert Kadlec, who since the 1990s had been one of America’s leading biowarfare advocates. The following year in 2018 a mysterious viral epidemic hit China’s poultry industry and in 2019, another mysterious viral epidemic devastated China’s pork industry…

From the earliest days of the administration, leading Trump officials had regarded China as America’s most formidable geopolitical adversary, and orchestrated a policy of confrontation. Then from January to August 2019, Kadlec’s department ran the “Crimson Contagion” simulation exercise, involving the hypothetical outbreak of a dangerous respiratory viral disease in China, which eventually spreads into the United States, with the participants focusing on the necessary measures to control it in this country. As one of America’s foremost biowarfare experts, Kadlec had emphasized the unique effectiveness of bioweapons as far back as the late 1990s and we must commend him for his considerable prescience in having organized a major viral epidemic exercise in 2019 that was so remarkably similar to what actually began in the real world just a few months later.

With leading Trump officials greatly enamored of biowarfare, fiercely hostile to China, and running large-scale 2019 simulations on the consequences of a mysterious viral outbreak in that country, it seems entirely unreasonable to completely disregard the possibility that such extremely reckless plans may have been privately discussed and eventually implemented, though probably without presidential authorization.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

From
American Pravda: Giants Silenced by Pygmies
Media Suppression of Our Leading Journalists and Scholars

Search the page for “Kadlec” to find the above selection and read further.
 

 

[Marc]

36 minutes ago, Mark said:

Why do so few people know the truth about the mRNA vaccines? Because they are surrounded by lying propaganda broadcast by government and mainstream media, and the mainstream Internet venues censor opposition.

We must engage in our own counter-propaganda.  And contrary to the defeatism of MSK, the truth is breaking through.  

So far Trump is on the wrong side of the propaganda war.

MSK says of Ellen,
“You are singing to a choir and condemning Trump for not knowing the songs you sing.”

Regarding the clot-shot Trump should be condemned, condemned for his amazing ignorance if not out-right villainy.

MSK:
“... America in general ... think people like you are nuts. Kooks. The fringe.”

A small minority may think that way, most have just been going along but more and more are waking up.  Maybe Americans in general are better than MSK thinks.

MKS claims that Trump moved the Overton window when at a rally he boasted about how fast he had developed three vaccines (three!), and sensing the restlessness in the audience said:
----------------------------------------------------
I believe totally in your freedoms, I do, [inaudible] you have to do what you have to do. But, [raises his voice] I RECOMMEND TAKING THE VACCINES. I did it. It’s good. Take the vaccines. But, you got— [audience restless and booing] Now that’s OK, that’s all right.  You got your freedoms.  But I happened to take the vaccine. If it doesn’t work, you’ll be the first to know, OK. ... But it is working. ... [more about you got your freedoms] And you gotta get your kids back to school.
----------------------------------------------------
Which way did that move the Overton window?

MSK:
“Trump is enormously intelligent and does not evade facts when he does productive things. And, persuasion-wise, he knows how to move the Overton window.  Do you?”

Does MSK?

MSK:
“... Trump is fighting [“the persuasion war”]. And he is winning.”

I hope Trump fails to persuade Americans to get the clot-shot.  That his own supporters booed him shows that they, at least, can think for themselves.

During his first presidential campaign Trump never persuaded anybody about what needs to be done.  He saw what things people wanted done and he promised to do them  To repeat a metaphor:  Trump isn’t leading the parade, he jumped in front of it.

The parade is not going in the direction of the vaccine.

We can hope Trump, that intelligent man, reverses himself, acknowledges that he made a tremendous blunder when president and by doubling-down at that rally, and joins the side of the angels.  We can hope, but there is no reason to be confident.

MSK:
“Trump is not going to make any nationwide changes by remote control ... pushing a button and changing a channel and watch as reality suddenly changes.  Reality doesn’t work that way.”

No one said it did.  Victory in a propaganda war is necessarily slower than  immediate.  Does Trump really have to make it even slower by going in reverse?  At that rally he could have told the crowd to watch Therapeutic Nihilism by Dr. Peter McCulllough (I put my abridgement on BitChute) but no, he shouted: Take the vaccine! It’s good! You want your children to go to school don’t you?

If instead Trump  had said: “I don’t recommend the vax and here’s why” it would not have been groveling. If Trump were to acknowledge that he had blundered in trusting Fauci et al  it would not be apologizing to them or the establishment or to the left.  Just the opposite, it would be attacking them.  Trump should take a hint from his supporters’ reaction at that rally.  They would love for him to reverse his stand.

MSK caricatures my position.  I don’t think Trump “stumbled into the presidency by accident,” on the contrary he earned it by recognizing problems people were worried about, uniquely among the candidates expressing those problems, and promising to fix them.  Fauci et al are not his “betters” but in fact he did let them run over him.  It’s hard to tell if he is cashing in on the corruption; he doesn’t make it easy to tell.

Trump is not fighting to win the war.  We need someone else.  Either Johnson or DeSantis would make a good president.  Even the mainstream media has had to acknowledge DeSantis as a possible candidate, though so far – 2024 is three years away – he denies it.

The following by MSK is a truckload of self-righteous bambysham.  The background is, even if you sacrifice children to the clot-shot:

“Never, ever, ever, ever, ever apologize to the establishment left or the Deep State. Not for anything. At all. Ever. They will eat you alive if you do. And then they will put one of their own where you once were after they turn the public against you.”

The stupid public.  What a low opinion MSK has of them.

 

 

MSK is The People!

[Marc]

16 minutes ago, Ellen Stuttle said:

Added thought:

In 2016, one of the approving remarks about Trump which I heard over and over was, "He tells the truth."

Now I'm being lectured, when saying that I think that he should tell the truth about the pseudo-vaccines, that doing so (at least now) wouldn’t be…political.

Ellen

 President Trump is fighting a world war for us.

Its really easy for certain folks to armchair quarterback, it reminds me of the folks who claimed that Trump had " no ground game".

Trump is now, and has always been five moves ahead of everyone at this chessboard.

It is not even close, ad he has never been wrong.

Folks need to remind themselves that President Trump is fighting a world war, in the midst of a civil war across the entire world, and while we do not have all the answers, President Trump, The King , does.

God bless President Trump.

 

[Mark]

Ellen gave it a name, Trump Bedazzlement Syndrome.

I could go on and on about both the good and the bad of Trump.  The last of the worst was his wimpy fight against the election steal a year ago.  That election must be overturned even if it is after Biden is gone.  That the election was stolen must become the standard, widely acknowledged history and as many perps as possible do jail time for it.

Trump’s behavior wasn’t four dimensional chess five moves ahead.  The man was stupid to rely on Giuliani.

 

[Peter]

I received approximately 12 requests today from President Trump for funds. Many of them seem like he is talking to me. "Peter. I need your help." It's annoying. I may have donated to him before both elections, several times but "nuff is anuff" as we say in the Ozarks.    

[Marc]

9 hours ago, Mark said:

Ellen gave it a name, Trump Bedazzlement Syndrome.

I could go on and on about both the good and the bad of Trump.  The last of the worst was his wimpy fight against the election steal a year ago.  That election must be overturned even if it is after Biden is gone.  That the election was stolen must become the standard, widely acknowledged history and as many perps as possible do jail time for it.

Trump’s behavior wasn’t four dimensional chess five moves ahead.  The man was stupid to rely on Giuliani.

 

I give it a name too, King Trump.

No ground game.

The man is never wrong.

Not sure of your age or if you recall the greatest chess player in history, Bobby Fisher but pretty sure if you recall the games in 1972 in Iceland, you would have said that Fisher was stupid too and blah blah re his "behaviour", and look what happned.

I can though see very clearly that you do not, and have never played chess.

 

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

14 hours ago, Ellen Stuttle said:

I wasn't talking about apologizing to the establishment left or the Deep State.

Ellen.

Oh, that's just great. Make him apologize to the MAGA people and put him in the time warp historical isolation chamber so the establishment left or the Deep State won't notice or realize it, right?

They won't ever believe he apologized to them will they? Why? Because he only apologized to the MAGA people. They won't ever use the press to distort what he says, will they?

Yeah, right.

Now let's leave Never Never Land, let's stop blanking out the nature of the establishment left and the Deep State, and get back to living on earth among human beings as they exist, both good and evil. 

I don't think you or Mark could ever get elected to dog catcher of Podunk. Have you tried? Have you pulled off an election among normal people?

(I actually did a few times, but not in government. However the principles are the same when dealing with crowds.)

Yet you want to sabotage the election chances of someone who can fix this mess. I'm not worried because neither of you will be able to pull it off. But I argue because you are one who is worth arguing with. You earned it.

 

In your case, I believe the attempted sabotage is not intentional. It's due to not knowing. I believe it's from total disinterest and lack of familiarity of what to do with crowds. You know science. You know nothing about public relations. And you have resisted the importance of this in public policies ever since our first discussions about Climate Change.

From observing your posts for years, I have seen you imagine the masses will come to believe your conclusions without anyone bothering to convince them--just win an argument and they will automatically believe. That's not the way it works, though. Then I've seen you get testy when that doesn't work, and try to persuade by being testy. Then you wonder why that doesn't work. And the world keeps going to hell.

 

In Mark's case, I believe there is some of that, but essentially, he hates Trump. He actually hates all authority figures. He doesn't build. He just tears down others. Oh, he liked Trump when he could use Trump to bash ARI people, but underneath, he was never really on board. It's a Jew thing, too. He really hates Jews--Trump is pro-Israel and, gasp, has Jews in the family.

This goes back a long ways. We tangled about his antisemitism before. He doesn't talk about this openly anymore. But the subtext is definitely there once you have seen it. Note that ARI is really Jewish in the sense I'm talking about. 

I generally avoid discussing things with him because of this. I hold that this form of thinking is a poor filter for analyzing reality, it only persuades like-minded people, and it bores me to argue within that frame.

God knows I have tried, too. Not just with him. It's like the observations of a guy I once read--a communist of all things--about the Jehovah's Witnesses. You can win the argument, but you will never convince them.

This is one of the reasons I have become interested in persuasion. I will never persuade Mark (and people like him) of anything. Nobody can. They have to find their own way out. But I can get through to some of the people they would poison with their frames if they could. The world is never a better place with more hatred in it.

 

14 hours ago, Ellen Stuttle said:

I said that Trump had been a patsy and a tool re his "Warp Speed" push.

You said that that was an incorrect analysis...

And I still stand by that.

I don't think you realize what went on within the administration when China released the virus on the world.

And I don't think you have much of an inkling about how Trump administers. For the upteenth time, he normally keeps enemies around, not just friends, to get their opinions. (He keeps people of all sides near to get input from them.) He has always done this his entire life, yet in this case, you think the disaster happened because we was a patsy.

Riiiiight...

I've already explained all this and I don't see value in repeating it if it is going to be ignored.

But for the reader, Trump didn't let others make his decisions for him. He always makes his own decisions, right or wrong. And he owns them. He's his own man--he always has been--and is not a patsy to anyone.

He simply miscalculated the extent of the evil he was facing. Now he knows it. Look at the other threads where I post, look at all the Dems retiring for just one case, and you will see that he is fixing it--in reality, not in narrative.

 

Instead of blaming Trump for the gross misuse by the bad guys of the vaccine part of warp speed, the important issue is to finally get the other part of warp speed going, the main part: that is, medicine. The vaccines were never developed in order to replace medicine. Repeating talking points from the mainstream perspective will not change that. And the fact that this idiocy has become policy is not on Trump. It's on the people who stole the ball with massive fraud and did it.

The main part of warp speed initially was to get millions of pills and other therapeutics distributed to people in order to combat the virus on fist sign of illness. And there are stockpiles of them just sitting around. The bad guys sabotaged that part of warp speed just like bad guys on the team blew up railroad lines during wars in times past.

 

I don't have bedazzlement about Trump (although I admire him enormously). That's just a word game to play with TDS. If I were so enthralled, I would never say Trump did a whopper--or made the other criticisms of him I have made.  

(But then again, I look at deeds rather than words as the most important indicator of what's going on.)

Instead, I have an awareness that Trump is the only one who was able to cut through and oppose the Deep State in today's America and actually pull it off. Who else did that? Name just one. The answer is nobody, that's who.

What's more, I don't see anyone who has that ability among the prospects for leadership right now. Any one of them in Trump's position would be eaten alive or assassinated. Oh, I see people who are against the Deep State, but not people who would be able to do what Trump did. DeSantis is learning as are a few in Congress, but they still have a ways to go to face down the deadly competence of the Deep State. 

Even Steve Bannon has had to learn and still has a ways to go. I believe he would admit that, too.

So why do I get in a lather? I just don't see the value in taking pot-shots at the very person who can--and will--solve this mess. I don't mind keeping him honest, and he has done some things I don't like, but I see no value in diminishing him in friendly eyes. Especially over gotchas and misrepresentations of what went on. We already have the fake news doing that--they've been doing it 24/7 for years. What value is to be had joining them?

So I speak up when people take pot shots at Trump, especially when their identification is off. (I normally let simple trolling pass, though. Trolling is not worth debating.)

 

I mean it when I say I want Trump reelected with both Houses and the State and Local Governments on his team. That way he will have the means to fix the Deep State mess, put the Federal Government back on the constitutional rails,  and maybe keep foreign enemies from invading this country.

I'm not just playing word games. I'm not working from bedazzlement. And I'm not playing footsie or "I'm right and you're wrong" parlor games about this.

I get where Ayn Rand was at when she wrote on the book cover of Atlas Shrugged: "And I mean it."

I mean it in reality.

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

We're back.

I deleted the thread about an hour ago by accident in trying to fix a glitch.

Fixing that was more complicated than it needed to be, but I fixed it.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Get a load of this. The glitch I was trying to fix was a goddam cookie. It was not on the IPB end at all. Instead it was in a text file on my computer, put there by IPB.

That is really annoying. 

For those interested in the kind of crap I have to deal with re the backend, here is what happened.

TG deleted the content in one of his posts. I decided to delete the post since no info was in it anymore. Rather than just delete the post, I selected it with a checkbox I can see but I doubt you can.

I couldn't find where to delete the post according to the check-box, so I just deleted the post the normal way. All good except for one thing:

Right in the middle of the bottom of my screen was a BIG HONKING NOTICE all in black saying "With 1 Selected."

I couldn't get rid of that to save my life. And no wonder. The notice was in a cookie, not in the normal workings of the forum. So if I didn't do the behavior the cookie responded to, the notice just stayed on my goddam screen.

So as a last resort just now, I cleared my cookies, it went away, and now all is well. 

Except my annoyance.

But I'll get over it.

Michael 

 

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

15 hours ago, Ellen Stuttle said:

Added thought:

In 2016, one of the approving remarks about Trump which I heard over and over was, "He tells the truth."

Now I'm being lectured, when saying that I think that he should tell the truth about the pseudo-vaccines, that doing so (at least now) wouldn’t be…political.

Ellen,

This is exactly what I mean by a gotcha.

When people said Trump told the truth, they were not referring to misfires and campaign rhetoric. They were referring to the press telling us that race riots were peaceful, that rigged trade overseas was "free trade" and so on. Trump would say the real deal on those things. Also, Trump was not woke. He liked winning and he said so. Things like that were the context.

(Even in negotiations, Trump starts out with a false position. And the people who say he tells the truth knew it, know that and will always know that.)

Reality-wise, try to elect anyone with your kind of gotcha.

It won't work--ever.

I know why. I don't think you do.

It will elect bad guys, though. Lots of 'em. Like it has always done.

So enjoy the "political" in that reality.

After all, you can point to a gotcha as the world burns...

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

The hits just keep coming.

The article:

Judge blocks COVID-19 vaccine rule for healthcare workers across U.S.

WWW.REUTERS.COM

---

A U.S. judge on Tuesday blocked a Biden administration COVID-19 vaccination rule for healthcare workers and applied the ruling nationwide where the mandate was still in effect, according to a court...

 

People are getting fed up.

Wait until the real fun starts.

 

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

BioNTech was the first vax to get FDA approval, right?

What about this?

Omicron Variant Unlikely to Cause Severe Illness Among Vaccinated People: BioNTech Founder

Omicron Variant Unlikely to Cause Severe Illness Among Vaccinated People: BioNTech Founder

WWW.THEEPOCHTIMES.COM

---

The founder of COVID-19 vaccine manufacturer BioNTech said the new Omicron CCP (Chinese Communist Party) virus variant is not ...

The headline says it all, not that I believe much of anything coming from Big Pharma these days.

Michael

[Dglgmut]

9 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

When people said Trump told the truth, they were not referring to misfires and campaign rhetoric. They were referring to the press telling us that race riots were peaceful, that rigged trade overseas was "free trade" and so on. Trump would say the real deal on those things.

Why can't he say the real deal now about the vaccines?

I don't get why Trump has to be pro-vaxx now when he said vaccines cause autism (which is probably true) in his original GOP run.

[Ellen Stuttle]

13 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

Yet you want to sabotage the election chances of someone who can fix this mess. I'm not worried because neither of you will be able to pull it off. But I argue because you are one who is worth arguing with. You earned it.

I don’t agree with you that apologizing about his assistance in foisting UNsafe and ineffective in combating Covid new kind of poisons on the world would harm Trump's election chances.  Quite the contrary.  Many of his supporters aren’t happy with him on the vax issue.  He even (reportedly, I didn’t listen to it) got booed for his favorable comments at his own rally.  I know that I would feel better about voting for him if he'd say something indicating regret.  I know others who are basically pro-Trump who feel the same way.  I even think he'd garner support from Dems who think that the pseudo-vaccines are a terrible medical blunder.

 

13 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

you think the disaster happened because we was a patsy.

You aren’t understanding what I thought.

As you present the push for vaccines - going from what Navarro says - the FDA was going to play its usual slow-motion, long-drawn-out-while-collecting-pay-off procedure.

This is a different view of what happened than I had prior to reading your post.

What I thought was that the wheels had been well greased, the paying-off already accomplished, in advance, and that the pseudo-vaccines didn’t need to be developed.  They were ready to go.  (I said that this was what I thought in an old post, I don’t remember just when.)

However, the pharmaceutical companies and the FDA approvers knew that the stuff wasn’t safe and shouldn’t be okayed even for emergency use.

Thus Trump's desire to have the process go swiftly provided the eager profiteers with a convenient and prominent fall-guy.  They could put the blame on him while, really, his "push" was against zero resistance.

Thus he was "patsy and tool."

Your account via Navarro changes that picture.  It makes Trump's push look like an effective push, actually instrumental in getting the things on the market rapidly.  In which case he was being the dupe of evil people whom he was mistakenly trusting.

I ordered the Navarro book but won’t have much time for looking at it until next week.

I’m quite curious to see what documentation is provided.

Ellen

[Ellen Stuttle]

11 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

Ellen,

This is exactly what I mean by a gotcha.

When people said Trump told the truth, they were not referring to misfires and campaign rhetoric. They were referring to the press telling us that race riots were peaceful, that rigged trade overseas was "free trade" and so on. Trump would say the real deal on those things. Also, Trump was not woke. He liked winning and he said so. Things like that were the context.

(Even in negotiations, Trump starts out with a false position. And the people who say he tells the truth knew it, know that and will always know that.)

Reality-wise, try to elect anyone with your kind of gotcha.

It won't work--ever.

I know why. I don't think you do.

It will elect bad guys, though. Lots of 'em. Like it has always done.

So enjoy the "political" in that reality.

After all, you can point to a gotcha as the world burns...

Michael

Michael,

This isn’t an issue of gotchas or of "misfires and campaign rhetoric."  It's an issue of people's lives and health, of children growing up damaged.  There are monsters behind all this who want the population weeded.  Every day those pseudo-vaccines are on the market and being jabbed into people is a day of more needless deaths and current damage and future damage set in motion.  This is not trivial brush-off stuff.  If Trump would come out and tell truth on this one, it would help so much toward ending the decimation.

Ellen

[Ellen Stuttle]

13 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

I don't think you or Mark could ever get elected to dog catcher of Podunk. Have you tried? Have you pulled off an election among normal people?

Actually, yes, a number of times, although not to political positions.

Ellen

[Ellen Stuttle]

14 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

From observing your posts for years, I have seen you imagine the masses will come to believe your conclusions without anyone bothering to convince them--just win an argument and they will automatically believe.

What you think you've seen isn’t there.

 

14 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

We tangled about his antisemitism before. He doesn't talk about this openly anymore. But the subtext is definitely there once you have seen it

Likewise about Mark.  I argued with you, and with Barbara, once upon a time over whether Mark is antisemitic.  He's anti America being run to suit Israel.  It isn’t the same thing,

I don’t want to argue the issue again.  I think that Mark doesn’t want arguing about it either.  I debated even mentioning it.  But silence might have seemed to be acquiescence.

Ellen

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

8 hours ago, Ellen Stuttle said:

... the pharmaceutical companies and the FDA approvers knew that the stuff wasn’t safe and shouldn’t be okayed even for emergency use.

Thus Trump's desire to have the process go swiftly provided the eager profiteers with a convenient and prominent fall-guy.  They could put the blame on him while, really, his "push" was against zero resistance.

Thus he was "patsy and tool."

Ellen,

I'm glad to see you looking deeper, and I am even sure you will see things in Navarro's book that I did not, but this characterization is still inaccurate.

The FDA approvers didn't really know "the stuff wasn’t safe and shouldn’t be okayed even for emergency use." They knew they had not done all the normal testing. The more profiteering among them and the Big Pharma people weren't even looking for a fall guy. In fact, one of them promised Trump and the world to release the vaccine before Nov. 3. But then he put it off to after Nov. 3 to damage Trump's reelection chances.

There were plenty of reasons for them to do that, but blame was not among them. In fact, these people never blame anyone for anything. They stonewall.

What they did was take advantage of a situation that arose due to Trump's pressing them to act quickly. Never in a thousand years did they imagine this opportunity was a possibility. I don't think they even had time to think about a fall guy. They just saw their chance and went for it as greedily as they could.

I do agree that these people have a really dark and evil side where they don't give a damn about damaging humans. But their game, when they have released damaging medication in the past, has never been to find a fall guy. On the contrary, they have always protected each other.

And they like the FDA regulator system because it has become so cumbersome, it keeps out competitors. But they also try to beat the system when they can get away with it, especially if they have a product with great marketing potential. For those products, their game has always been how to beat the FDA regulators, find a loophole or do anything, so they could move swiftly and get their product to market.

After they cashed in, they would worry about the dead bodies and maimed people. And, to my knowledge, they did not habitually blame anyone for any of that. Instead, they used their clout with the press to make it go away. And they used their political influence to allow them to be liability-free when they could manage it. In the last instance, they paid fines and finally withdrew products from the market.

Trump wasn't a fall guy for them to do this kind of evil. Like I said, they never used or needed a fall guy. He was their unexpected goddam savior to get around the FDA's process. 

 

He was also their biggest impediment to running the operation the way they wanted when they realized this opportunity was real. Trump wanted to flood the market with cheap medicine that would kill the virus. He even used hydroxychloroquine himself as proof of concept. In their minds, that would damage vaccine profits, so he had to go. They essentially took from Trump what they could get, then they switched sides politically, put their machine together and went to town.

The only two things they ever blamed Trump for was pushing them too hard in the beginning, then using their work for his own political gain. And that last was after switching sides. They didn't even blame him for wanting to use medicine. They just plotted and executed their plans in the backrooms.

Hell, Fauci had colluded with Obama to fund the gain of function research in Wuhan under the radar in Trump's administration. They didn't need a fall guy. They were taking any and all opportunities they could engineer without anyone noticing. 

And, like I said, when Trump relied on Fauci in the middle of all this, that wasn't his finest hour. It was probably the dumbest thing he has ever done in his entire life. 

I can't read his mind, but I am pretty sure he thinks this himself.

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

7 hours ago, Ellen Stuttle said:

I argued with you, and with Barbara, once upon a time over whether Mark is antisemitic.  He's anti America being run to suit Israel.  It isn’t the same thing,

Ellen,

This is the kind of thing I am referring to when I say talking within that kind of frame bores me. I, obviously, know the distinction you mention. I know people who are that way.

But I have seen enough of Mark's posts and behavior to flat out disagree with you. One can be anti-Jew and anti-Israel at the same time. And they can use the anti-Israel part to cover the anti-Jew part.

I find it interesting you said you have been defending Mark this way since the Barbara days. You just now included me in this, but I honestly don't recall us talking about it back then. I would have to look it up.

But still, this was years ago.

So how do I square that with this?

On 11/24/2021 at 4:56 PM, Mark said:

Ellen doesn’t know me and she doesn't need me to defend her posts.

Right... you never heard of him. (That's the insinuation.)

That was stated just the other day.

When I talk about someone, it's not because I'm not savvy enough to understand the nuance of their positions. I don't equate being savvy with accepting their smokescreens as fact. My grounds are because I notice things as they happen. And I have noticed plenty of things to support my conclusion over the years.

 

And on the Trump issue, no matter what the issue will be, Mark will be saying Trump is better than the commies (he doesn't use that term, but you know what I mean  ), but Trump is damaged goods, no integrity, and not fit to be president, that there are far better men around, yada yada yada, bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. That part will never change. 

He even did that when Trump did not endorse Lin Wood in his run for South Carolina's GOP chair.

The fact that Lin had recently called Mike Pence a Satan-worshiping pedophilic murderer didn't even register. Nor did Lin's previous campaign to get people to stay home in the Georgia election for Senators.

I happen to love Lin Wood, but I know enough about politics to know these things kill his chances of getting elected to anything. So endorsing him would be the same as endorsing a failed campaign in advance. And Trump likes to win.

You, like me, were caught up in admiration for Lin back then. So you were pissed at Trump and I get that. But I don't think for one minute Mark admires Lin Wood for anything. Not like you did. Lin was just a useful tool for Mark to bash Trump with and hope that would stick.

 

Watch for the next opportunity for Mark to come out against Trump. It won't matter what it is, he will use it. But the real issue is that Trump is a friend of Israel and Jew lover. It's ugly to say it that way, though, so the new issue will be used. 

I am sure of that.

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Ellen,

On the other points, you made, I have something to say, but not that much. So I will put them all here.

 

1. I hear you on the genocide thing. We disagree on context. How Trump will eventually come out in public about this is still to be seen. But it will happen.

I see a context of war. And the bad guys are really good at manipulating public image and election processes. So timing is an issue.

 

There's also a personal side to this that I see. It's not, nor ever will be with Trump, his primary motivation for policy, but it's there. Rush Limbaugh stated it during the Russian hoax and first impeachment. He said, knowing the kind of man Trump was, he was really proud of winning the presidency and doing the great things he was doing. So being attacked in this manner made him sad. Not weakened. Just sad.

I believe there is a little of that in Trump's view of the vaccine--watching his great achievement turn into a horrible mess by people abusing it. (By this time, the vaccines were supposed to be back in the normal testing part. The focus of his achievement was fighting the virus during an emergency, not developing a vax. In other words, developing the vax was part of that vision, that vision was not part of the vax.)

But I have no doubt this personal side is minor and he will work through it. He is one of the most fact-oriented presidents the USA has ever had when solving problems and building something and I just don't see him keeping his eyes closed on the facts out of stubbornness or whatever.

 

On our disagreement, I will say this. If Trump were in power and the "winner take all" danger were just a little less from the dark side, and Trump still told people to take the current vax, I would be there right with you. I would criticize Trump to the skies. But I see the context and that prompts me to see outcomes. I would hate it if Trump shot his election chances (over words, at that) and a squish or worse got elected. I believe that would allow the attempted genocide to complete.

 

2. I'm surprised you have won elections, especially by normal people. I love it. I'm very pleased.  

 

3. When you wrote: "What you think you've seen isn’t there," I admit to being a bit hyperbolic. I was trying to make a point about what persuasion needs and went overboard.

It happens. 

 

Michael

[ThatGuy]

Newspeak on parade at Forbes:

"Covid-19 Vaccines Can’t Alter Your DNA, Here’s Why "

Covid-19 Vaccines Can’t Alter Your DNA, Here’s Why

WWW.FORBES.COM

---

A common myth circulating on social media sites falsely claims that the mRNA vaccines against the Covid-19 coronavirus can change DNA.

But, then:

" “Yes, The Vaccine Changes Your DNA. A Tiny Bit. That’s A Good Thing"

Steven Salzberg Steve Yes, the vaccine does change your DNA, but only indirectly, as I try to explain in my latest Forbes piece here th 250 260 270 280 Yes, The Vaccine Changes Your DNA. A Tiny Bit. That's A Good Thing. - )

IFUNNY.CO

---

IFunny is fun of your life. Images, GIFs and videos featured seven times a day. Your anaconda definitely wants some. Fun fact: we deliver...

But then, re: the latter:

"Forbes stealth-edits article explaining ‘yes, the vaccine changes your DNA’"

"A Forbes article that takes aim at 'anti-vaxxers' for claiming that the COVID-19 vaccine “changes your DNA” — arguing that technically it does and that’s a good thing — had its headline changed without explanation to emphasize that the vaccines 'don’t alter your DNA."

and

"No editor’s note or other explanation for the change was given by Forbes. While the original headline summarized Salzberg’s argument, the new headline appears to slightly contradict what he wrote."

Forbes stealth-edits article explaining ‘yes, the vaccine changes your DNA’ – The Blogging Hounds

THEBLOGGINGHOUNDS.COM

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A Forbes article that takes aim at "anti-vaxxers" for claiming that the COVID-19 vaccine "changes your DNA" — arguing that technically it...

Shenanigans. Shenanigans, all around.

[ThatGuy]

Another "L" for Biden...

The State of Montana has delivered another blow to Biden’s now-hobbled federal vaccine mandate. The news was announced by Montana Governor Steve Daines:

“BIG news for Montana,” Daines wrote on Twitter. “Joe Biden’s overreaching vaccine mandate threatens Montana hospitals, Montana healthcare workers and Montanans seeking access to essential care. We must keep up this fight.”
Governor Daines was responding to an announcement from the Attorney General of Montana, Austin Knudsen.

“Great news for Montana healthcare workers: A federal judge just granted our request for an injunction on the CMS vaccine #mandate. This unlawful mandate is now blocked in all 50 states.”
and

The Montana case’s nationwide injunction represents another devastating blow to Biden’s federal vaccine mandate. While an earlier injunction stemming from the Center for Medicare and Medicaid Services case applied to ten states, this ruling makes it clear that it now applies to all 50 states.

 

'This Unlawful Mandate is Now Blocked in All 50 States': Biden's Vaccine Mandate Suffers Another Blow in Ruling for Montana

TRENDINGPOLITICS.COM

---

The State of Montana has delivered another blow to Biden’s now-hobbled federal vaccine mandate. The news was announced by...

 

[Marc]

48 minutes ago, ThatGuy said:

Another "L" for Biden...

The State of Montana has delivered another blow to Biden’s now-hobbled federal vaccine mandate. The news was announced by Montana Governor Steve Daines:

“BIG news for Montana,” Daines wrote on Twitter. “Joe Biden’s overreaching vaccine mandate threatens Montana hospitals, Montana healthcare workers and Montanans seeking access to essential care. We must keep up this fight.”
Governor Daines was responding to an announcement from the Attorney General of Montana, Austin Knudsen.

“Great news for Montana healthcare workers: A federal judge just granted our request for an injunction on the CMS vaccine #mandate. This unlawful mandate is now blocked in all 50 states.”
and

The Montana case’s nationwide injunction represents another devastating blow to Biden’s federal vaccine mandate. While an earlier injunction stemming from the Center for Medicare and Medicaid Services case applied to ten states, this ruling makes it clear that it now applies to all 50 states.

 

'This Unlawful Mandate is Now Blocked in All 50 States': Biden's Vaccine Mandate Suffers Another Blow in Ruling for Montana

TRENDINGPOLITICS.COM

---

The State of Montana has delivered another blow to Biden’s now-hobbled federal vaccine mandate. The news was announced by...

 

The last W he had was the election, well, actually the last win was the primaries, well , actually the last win he had was ...........

[Mark]

Ellen has answered MSK posts of yesterday with her trademark clarity.  I would add two comments on MSK posts of yesterday (while ignoring his self-righteous insults).  

The worldwide fiasco was always about the vaccine, hence the trashing of treatment, or as Dr. McCullough terms it, “therapeutic nihilism.” One can only conjecture why “they” are doing this (who knows who they are but the conspiracy – or perhaps it’s a consensus rather than willful collusion – is bigger than Fauci). Catherine Austin Fitts, a financier famous for a long battle with HUD, believes the agenda is:  First universal mandated vaccination, then vaccine passports, then a currency “reset” in which the old cash disappears and your income and all your savings are turned into digital tokens that government bureaucrats can track, confiscate, and turn on or off at will.  The goal has always been to get you under their thumb.  Who knows.

I very much want to like Trump.  During his 2016 campaign I wrote several admiring essays and doing so was a lot work.  For example Fear and Loathing of Donald Trump (and those who support him).  (I focus on the attitude of ARI people because that after all is the mission of ARI Watch.)  But Trump’s four years were all-in-all very disappointing.  These days he will help himself as well as the public if he tells the truth about the clot-shot.

Well, I glanced at MSK latest and see he has quoted “Ellen doesn’t know me and she doesn't need me to defend her posts.” I wrote that in response to MSK insinuating that I was trying to represent Ellen.  I wasn’t, and didn’t want her to think I was.  I do agree with everything she has been saying about the vaccines and I always admire her lucid style of writing.