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The Syria and Turkey Mess

I just came across this and it made my day.

One president. Not a ruling class.

Well, there's this, too. Watching the Neocons and other anti-Trumpers melt down is lots of fun.

:) 

On another OL thread where President Trump's current change in Syrian policy is being discussed, I recently wrote this.

8 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

Not much to see in terms of comments, at least from me.

People, especially here in the US, who make money off war (Neocons, Neoliberals, Deep State, etc.) are pissed off like never before. Man, are they cussing President Trump. And that warms my heart. They lost their human sacrifices to appease the gods of their bank accounts. 

Also, if Turkey goes in, the ISIS prisoners there will probably not be walking the earth much longer. When I think Turkey and think ISIS prisoners, I'm just not feelin' the luv...

And even that will piss off the right people. Dead men don't eat, so feeding the ISIS prisoners will be one less source of income for the war profiteers.

And the Kurds? 

We'll have to wait and see. But I'm betting things will work out.

Michael

Let's see how things develop.

I expect discussion and trade with the threat of guns will speak louder than guns and crony profits to resolve this thing.

For example, President Trump first announced the carrot saying US troops are getting out of Syria, then the stick:

Trump Threatens to ‘Destroy’ Turkey’s Economy if It Does Anything ‘Off Limits’ in Syria

Wanna bet there's a lot of trade deals being made as this thing unfolds? You know, the kind where the citizens of each country prosper, not just the industrial military complex cronies. And nobody gets shot or blown up so someone else can increase their income.

Michael

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Fox: Turkey’s incursion into northeastern Syria this week has been met with international condemnation – but it’s also induced something of a schism between members of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO). On Thursday, Norway’s Foreign Minister Ine Soreide announced in an email to AFP that, given the complexity and ever-changing nature of the situation, “as a precautionary measure” the foreign ministry “will not handle any new demands for exports of defense material or material for multiple uses to Turkey.” “It is clear there is growing unease among some members regarding Turkey’s actions, and it is likely Norway’s move will be followed by other NATO members as well,” Nile Gardiner, the director of the Heritage Foundation's Margaret Thatcher Center, told Fox News. “Turkey is being put on notice over its military actions and will be held to account.”

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What does Assad say about all this border incursioning? Or doesn't it matter, Syria ain't what it used to be ?

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51 minutes ago, tmj said:

What does Assad say about all this border incursioning? Or doesn't it matter, Syria ain't what it used to be ?

T,

Have you ever watched old shows like I Love Lucy? There's a standard plot where a man and a wife are fighting and it's nasty. A third party happens by. Each side tries to recruit him. After analyzing the situation, the third party comes out for one or the other and gives his reasons. There's a little bit of a dust-up, and after that happens, both sides viciously go after him.

:)

That's what is happening in these centuries old hostilities far away from American shores, except the setup fight has grown into a divorce.

But the US is still the third party the other two hate and do not want meddling.

Fact-wise, I don't think anybody knows what is going on over there right now. (Scott Adams calls this stage the fog of war.)

The only thing certain in my mind is that we should not be involved in the fighting.

Look how refreshing it is when a sitting US president asks the obvious question.

 

Let me repeat that question: "Why are they not asking for a Declaration of War?"

Remember the Bush years when that was the main thing libertarians and many people in O-Land kept asking?

Man, are there a lot of people making tons of money off of half-assed wars that are not really wars and that can never be won.

These same endless unwinnable war for profit people also own the mainstream media. That's why you see the big media outrage against President Trump's decision to say, "Enough!"

If people want war, let Congress vote on it.

The problem for the war-mongering ruling class is that people at large don't want war, much less endless unwinnable war for the profit of them, the ruling class.

Let them send their own kids to fight undeclared wars if they want it so badly.

If Congress does not pass a Declaration of War, then the Syrian and Kurdish thing was not our fight--and it is still not our fight. Besides, from what I understand, half the Kurds are friggin' communists.

To keep doing this same thing over and over and killing American youth over a bloody con game staged by insider cronies, I mean, how stupid are we?

Now we have a President who wants it to stop so that's finally within grasp. So which is it? Red pill or blue pill? Each of us has to decide.

Michael

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Michael wrote: Let them send their own kids to fight undeclared wars if they want it so badly.

And where are the paid mercenaries and true believer, zealots? This dust up is not attractive to them. I do remember some Kurdish terrorist attacks against Turkey but if that is happening now it is not making the news I see. If innocents are targeted I am never for the perpetrators. And it looks like Turkey is bombing somewhat indiscriminately as proved by the innocents who are fleeing the carnage.

Is America becoming isolationist? No. I support Trump's use for our economic global leverage and not the military. Of course the military is always an option and a large bargaining chip to see that "right" and justice is done.   

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11 minutes ago, Peter said:

I support Trump's use for our economic global leverage and not the military.

Peter,

Bingo.

Besides, when things get nasty, this takes a country apart like nothing else.

(I'm talking about the way President Trump does it, not the elitist ruling class presidents preceding him.)

If despotic leaders want to act the fool, let them wallow in the messes they make until the people they rule get fed up and kick their sorry asses out.

And if they attack the US, then we have the military.

Michael

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I was watching the Bond flick "Tomorrow Never Dies" with Bosnen? last night and it shows a dust up between China and Britain caused by a billionaire megamaniac. Hmm? Have Bill Gates, the Amazon guy, or Elon Musk tried to start any wars lately? 

And now for the news. Trump’s bad. Bad to the bone. B,b,b, bad. He’s bad to the bone. This is Carl Cameron Passwater. I am Sheepherd Smith. And this is Megyn Kelly, reporting for MSNBC.  Good night. You can believe what we say.

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"We'll see what happens ... "

It looks like the SDF commanders and leadership structure will be making sector-deals with the Assad regime. The reports of atrocities at the hands of the Turkish-supported TFSA are already rolling in ... there are no 'good guys' in Syria.  Russia and Iran are going to be the overlords of Syria for the foreseeable future.

Previously, Syria’s Torture Photos: Witness to Atrocity

-- in unrelated news, although the 'endless war' in Syria will not have US troops (aside from Special Forces) remaining to offer assistance to former catspaws/allies (SDF), the President is sending 2000 US forces to Saudi Arabia, which is waging a war against Yemen's Houthis.

...

U.S. says reports of killing of Kurdish politician in northeast Syria 'extremely troubling'

 

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4 hours ago, tmj said:

What does Assad say about all this border incursioning? Or doesn't it matter, Syria ain't what it used to be ?

What’s actually going on is very different from every report available.

Deep State enemies hold ground in Syria, from where they support ISIS, control wells and sell oil and will sabotage any peace.

Turkey is eliminating those for the sake of all involved.

Turkey, Syria, Russia and the US are together on this, the noises they make to the contrary are strictly for the normies.

Q alludes to Iranian nuclear facilities buried deep in northern Syria that need to go.

And the Kurds are not One, Obama made deals with the worst of them, Trump/Putin/Assad/Erdogan have made peace deals with the better ones. Obama’s Kurds are taking bullets between the eyes as I write this. When they are beaten down to nothingness and Deep State and Iranian sites are destroyed, peace will breakout.

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7 hours ago, Jon Letendre said:

What’s actually going on is very different from every report available.

Deep State enemies hold ground in Syria, from where they support ISIS, control wells and sell oil and will sabotage any peace.

Turkey is eliminating those for the sake of all involved.

Turkey, Syria, Russia and the US are together on this, the noises they make to the contrary are strictly for the normies.

Q alludes to Iranian nuclear facilities buried deep in northern Syria that need to go.

And the Kurds are not One, Obama made deals with the worst of them, Trump/Putin/Assad/Erdogan have made peace deals with the better ones. Obama’s Kurds are taking bullets between the eyes as I write this. When they are beaten down to nothingness and Deep State and Iranian sites are destroyed, peace will breakout.

This is not the neocon position.

--Brant

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On 10/13/2019 at 12:53 PM, william.scherk said:

"We'll see what happens ... "

It looks like the SDF commanders and leadership structure will be making sector-deals with the Assad regime. The reports of atrocities at the hands of the Turkish-supported TFSA are already rolling in ... there are no 'good guys' in Syria.  Russia and Iran are going to be the overlords of Syria for the foreseeable future.

Previously, Syria’s Torture Photos: Witness to Atrocity

-- in unrelated news, although the 'endless war' in Syria will not have US troops (aside from Special Forces) remaining to offer assistance to former catspaws/allies (SDF), the President is sending 2000 US forces to Saudi Arabia, which is waging a war against Yemen's Houthis.

...

U.S. says reports of killing of Kurdish politician in northeast Syria 'extremely troubling'

 

Holy shit, did you see that Turkish forces are attacking Kurdish civilians at a gun range in Kentucky?!!! WTF? Where's President Trump? Where's our military? This cannot stand!

J

I wonder if anyone at ABC knows what tracers are, and how many are commonly used in a real-life operation. Nah, actually, I don't wonder.

 

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2 hours ago, Jonathan said:

Holy shit, did you see that Turkish forces are attacking Kurdish civilians at a gun range in Kentucky?!!! WTF? Where's President Trump? Where's our military? This cannot stand!

J

I wonder if anyone at ABC knows what tracers are, and how many are commonly used in a real-life operation. Nah, actually, I don't wonder.

 

Yeah, Turks are in Kentucky doing whatever they want to whomever they want and Orange Man too stupid to care.

Isnt it great how all the progressives love war now, and hate Trump for being limp toward war and blood and mass murder?

“John Bolton would be doing something to Turkey,  now there is a hero with a twitchy trigger finger!!”

“Bring back Rumsfeld, he’d’ve loosed some tactical nukes by now, based on ABC’s reports, and the Kentucky situation would be thoroughly quelled by now!!”

Shameless fucking morons.

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Just to chime in on the Kentucky Syrian sweepstakes, here are Corbett's comments along with original Kentucky firing range footage from 2010.

And here's the danger so far.

Thank God ABC's on the job.

:)

I think they're trying to upstage the James O'Keefe CNN thing that's hitting the fan...

Michael

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EGyOA--X4AUkavh?format=jpg&name=900x900

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23 minutes ago, william.scherk said:

 

EGyOA--X4AUkavh?format=jpg&name=900x900

 

Yup, and he should be proud of his victory. His survival skills are manifest.

The most powerful people on earth, who destroyed Iraq's Hussein, Libya’s al-Gaddafi and so many more, tried and tried but could not destroy al-Assad.

And how exactly do we know he is evil? The media companies they own told us so. Over and over and over and over again. 

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7 hours ago, Jonathan said:

Holy shit, did you see that Turkish forces are attacking Kurdish civilians at a gun range in Kentucky?!!! WTF? Where's President Trump? Where's our military? This cannot stand!

J

I wonder if anyone at ABC knows what tracers are, and how many are commonly used in a real-life operation. Nah, actually, I don't wonder.

 

Oh, but Jonathan, ABC’s error was a common and innocent one, just ask Mike Rat’schild, who explained it all while also exposing the dangerous and disturbing conspiratorial mindset behind your kind of thinking, in the latest at Billy’s Q blog.

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1 hour ago, Jonathan said:

Jonathan’s pic ... 

EG-QddGWoAEjmBu.jpg

It’s the end of the whole damn world, Jonathan! 😆

Orange Man must go to war with the NATO partner who fabricates USAF F35 airframes, or, the progressives who think Teslas don’t use fossil fuels assure us, the world will perish forever!!

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2 hours ago, Jon Letendre said:

It’s the end of the whole damn world, Jonathan! 😆

Orange Man must go to war with the NATO partner who fabricates USAF F35 airframes, or, the progressives who think Teslas don’t use fossil fuels assure us, the world will perish forever!!

Don't worry. Billy is going to save us. He has enlisted, and is right now packing up his shit, and heading over there to straighten it all out. He's taking printouts of his posts with him, and a PLS container full of tracers. Fuck yeah!

J

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While all the belligerent half-whitted neocon and progressive WWIII-savoring geopolitical guru wannabes demand violence and killing (against our own NATO partner!) the adults are talking, giving and taking, resolving differences and making peace.

 

 

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Just so people understand what the original stink was.

President Trump wanted to bring 50 soldiers home.

It ended up being 28.

Seriously.

That's the deal.

Oh...

I forgot all that money the US crony war machine makes by keeping endless wars going...

Michael

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On 10/13/2019 at 10:58 AM, Peter said:

Is America becoming isolationist? No. I support Trump's use for our economic global leverage and not the military. Of course the military is always an option and a large bargaining chip to see that "right" and justice is done.   

Peter,

Lindsay Graham is starting to get it.

Surprise, surprise...

:) 

Or let's put it in terms Graham can really understand.

There's more money for cronies in oil than there is in war.

:)

Still, peace is coming (at least it sure looks like it) and, within the current context, I'll take it.

Michael

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Lindsey has rethought his positions on . . . Wait first for the results of Trumps agenda there? A DMZ in Syria? Protect Syrian oil fields. “Mostly,” supply air power in the region? Interesting, Michael. He does sound like he knows more about the situation and is willing to wait and see. He also thinks we should provide more protection for our ally the Kurds through air support and diplomacy but thinks he has not flip flopped.

And of course the world situation is . . . , well . . . , larger. We may have about 70 military, Air Force, naval and marine bases in Japan and Okinawa. When I went to look for bases in South Korea it came up with 15 but the list did not include the base I served at, headquarters and headquarters battery seventh infantry division, artillery, and bases I assume (know) are still there. Yet, when I searched exclusively for my base, pictures appeared. So I think there are more than 15 American bases in South Korea but information is not shared as readily. Odd. I am sure Little Kim of North Korea knows they are there. Go to Wikipedia and try, “List of countries with overseas military bases.” Scroll down to United States. We have bases in The Philippines, Germany, Guantanamo Naval Base in Cuba, Afghanistan, Brazil, Iceland, radar in Israel. Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.

We do patrol the world as peacekeepers and influence insurers, and extenders. What would the world do if we weren’t there? It’s hard to say. Is the world a better place because we are there? Probably . . . I sincerely think so. We add a tremendous amount of business and money to countries around the world. Lots of money for their economies. What is the cost to Americans? What should we do about our overseas military presence? If we shut down a majority of those bases what would the consequences be? Could we shrink our huge deficit without prompting wars? Peter

Notes from places I have been, or been near. Japan. Does Japan really need the US military bases? The revised treaty requires Japan and the United States to maintain capacities to resist common armed attacks. Thus it explains the need for US military bases in Japan. This established a security alliance between Japan and the United States. In May 2010, a survey of the Okinawan people conducted by the Mainichi Shimbun and the Ryūkyū Shimpō, found that 71% of Okinawans surveyed thought that the presence of Marines on Okinawa was not necessary (15% said it was necessary). When asked what they thought about 62% of exclusive use United States Forces Japan bases being concentrated in Okinawa, 50% said that the number should be reduced and 41% said that the bases should be removed. When asked about the US-Japan security treaty, 55% said it should be a peace treaty, 14% said it should be abolished, and 7% said it should be maintained.

Edited by Peter
missing a word

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