Michael Stuart Kelly

Charlottesville Unite the Right Rally Madness

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7 minutes ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

See here on Real Clear Politics Video: Former Mueller Deputy on Trump: Deep State, "Government Is Going To Kill This Guy". The guy's name is Phil Mudd...

Let's see if I can embed the video from the RCP site (it's hard to find on YouTube with a search since YouTube is now in agenda mode):

There. That did it. See for yourself.

This was on August 12.

Michael

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When the communists seize power all these MSM hotheads will be utterly crushed by their totalitarian overlords. The MSM is in the hands of the communists in the meantime. That's what they are and have always been. Most don't even know it*. They are too suffused with 100% moral arrogance and righteousness.  Even Trotsky got axed in the head. Competing power is not allowed.

--Brant

*useful idiots and lapdogs

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I was afraid the country would split into red and blue with a true civil war if Hilary was elected. That is, the red would have had enough. It's beginning to happen anyway. The assault on Trump is an assault on the red. He's fighting the college culture, the MSM and the deep state.

--Brant

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59 minutes ago, Brant Gaede said:

It's beginning to happen anyway.

Brant,

Nah... Just look around some day. Literally look around where you shop, eat, drive, etc.

Is what you see different than what's in the media?

I bet it is. It certainly is for me and I live in one of the most liberal places in the country (Evanston). Most people are going about their lives living them, working, socializing, raising families, etc. The bad things that happen are traffic accidents, a store robbery at times, and so on. I don't hardly even see strikes in my neck of the woods. Right now the auto mechanics are striking, but no one sees it. They're mostly not showing up for work, so this is about pay, not social issues.

A demonstration by 500 folks in Charlottesville countered by an equivalent number of paid counter-demonstrators, is not a civil war. Neither is a bunch of idiot pundits and politicians yawping all over themselves 24/7 on the mainstream news.

This is literally a media event.

59 minutes ago, Brant Gaede said:

The assault on Trump is an assault on the red. He's fighting the college culture, the MSM and the deep state.

Correct.

The good news is that they are vocal as all hell and the deep state is treacherous as all hell, but their numbers are small compared to folks who don't think like they do (left, right and middle). They are elitist power-mongers, so they are few by the very nature of who they are.

More good news is that President Trump sees them for who they are and holds them to universal moral standards like honesty, playing fair, and so on. They simply don't have a megaphone loud enough to drown out his. 

But what's the reality outside of the coastal elites? Take a look at this video and you will see what most average Americans see (not average coastal elite Americans, I mean the rest :) ).

Notice that Judge Jeanine was still grandstanding against white supremacy (after all, she has to keep her job :) ) while Professor Carol Swain was saying that's not where the real issue is.

And if you want to see a little more, here is a pretty good breakdown of the differences between the modern pro-white people and the white supremacists of before--and all this done by a black female scholar. The truth is you can force people to sit down and shut up for a while, but if you constantly demonize them in schools and in the media, and shove collectivist doctrines down their throats that benefit everyone but them, you create a hotbed of resentment. One day it starts to manifest in public. That's what's happening.

At least that is a lot closer to the mark than the narratives of the mainstream media, which likes to pretend the US is still in the early 1860's.

Also, notice that Professor Swain's standard is violence, not race. 

Michael

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btw - I have read several places that Jason Kessler, the dude in the video in Post #2, does not have a history of white nationalism.

He has a different history.

There are strong indications that he was an active Obama supporter and Occupy Wall Street activist. Breitbart does a decent overview of what is going around:

Report: Charlottesville Racist Leader Was Former Occupy Activist, Obama Supporter

From the article by Joel Pollak:

Quote

The Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) reports that Jason Kessler, the organizer of last Saturday’s white supremacist rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, is rumored to be a former Occupy Wall Street activist and supporter of Barack Obama.

The left-wing SPLC is often partisan and overzealous in targeting hate groups, lumping legitimate conservative organizations together with actual extremists. Therefore its identification of Kessler’s left-wing roots is significant.

The SPLC notes:

Rumors abound on white nationalist forums that Kessler’s ideological pedigree before 2016 was less than pure and seem to point to involvement in the Occupy movement and past support for President Obama.

At one recent speech in favor of Charlottesville’s status as a sanctuary city, Kessler live-streamed himself as an attendee questioned him and apologized for an undisclosed spat during Kessler’s apparent involvement with Occupy. Kessler appeared visibly perturbed by the woman’s presence and reminders of their past association.

And, as gravy, James Fields, the driver of the car that killed and injured protesters, had a problem with schizophrenia.

Quote

In related news, reports emerged Monday that James Alex Fields, Jr., the 20-year-old who plowed his car into a left-wing counter-demonstration in Charlottesville, killing one and injuring several others, had been diagnosed with schizophrenia as a boy and had been given antipsychotic drugs. It is not clear if he is still taking them.

Are these hard and dry facts? Nope. They are still being looked into. But they are reasonable things to think about in all the current yelling in the mainstream.

I wonder when we are going to become a public culture interested in facts first when disasters happen. Probably never.

So what to do?

Learn to tell a good story.

That's what the mainstream media did and all it does these days. 

Michael

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For the record, Nazism killed a lot of people and so did communism, the Antifa intellectual base. In fact, communism killed many more people than Nazism did (see here for some interesting details). And this is what the Antifa people stand for, what they want to bring to the US. They use other words now, but the concepts are identical. And, frankly, so are the methods for taking over.

So I'm not too sympathetic to excusing or ignoring the Antifa violence in this protest and only bashing the white side. Nor am I sympathetic to the body count claim when selectively blanking out 100 million or so bodies as part of the outrage. That's too many murders to blank out.

Also, Nazism is wiped out of governments all over the world. Not so communism and its variations. So which is the real threat? I mean in terms of reality right now. Hmmmmm?...

As far as I can tell, the police in Chancellorsville herded the white protesters through a gauntlet (two gauntlets, actually) of Antifa protesters, then stood down. Now why would anyone do that, I wonder? Incompetence? I doubt it. So why? How about encouraging violence? And isn't that the exact opposite of what the police are supposed to do?

Your tax dollars at work...

There are videos online of the fights that broke out in the gauntlets. From what I saw, the Antifas started them, but, granted, the white power folks responded with relish.

But we are supposed to blame one side only for the violence because the few hundred white power crackpots who showed up are a danger to modern civilization?

Riiiiiiiiight...

Michael

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You have to hear the montage in the short video below by Rush Limbaugh to fully appreciate the coordination of the fake news outlets. It's hilarious. And Rush even mocked them at the end by telling them to shut up if they want Bannon gone. :) 

The reason this is in the Charlottesville rally thread is that these same media folks demanded that President Trump bash the white racists in the rally, which he ended up doing. Immediately thereafter, the mainstream press moved to the next step in their coordinated propaganda campaign. And march in lockstep they did.

:)

Michael

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Thank God President Trump is going back to common sense and not allowing himself to be bullied by the mainstream media thought police on this issue.

From the Wall Street Journal:

Trump Says ‘Both Sides’ to Blame in Charlottesville Violence, Reversing Monday’s Stance

From the article:

Quote

President Donald Trump, in a combative news conference Tuesday, said “both sides” were to blame in violent weekend clashes in Charlottesville, Va., a day after putting the responsibility squarely on white nationalists.

“I think there is blame on both sides,” said Mr. Trump, referring to the white nationalist protesters holding a demonstration in the city and the counterprotesters facing off against them.

“You had a group on one side that was bad and you had a group on the other side that was also very violent and nobody wants to say that but I’ll say it right now,” the president said.

He added: “You had a group on the other side that came charging in without a permit. They were very violent.”

When a decent video of the press conference becomes available, I will embed it.

I've seen a few things and it was a hoot watching him make the fake news press heads explode in phony outrage.

:)

Michael

 

EDIT: We'll go with this video for now:

 

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I've been pretty bothered by this stuff.

 

I do believe in free speech, but these people are literally waving symbols of two of the most significant threats to the USA within its history.  Nazis killed Americans, so did the Confederacy.  They have a right to speak, but if they assemble it's only natural to expect huge counterprotests and violence.  Shouldn't they at least have to pay the additional costs that the police and community have to bear?

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36 minutes ago, RobinReborn said:

They have a right to speak, but if they assemble it's only natural to expect huge counterprotests and violence.

RR,

Why is it natural to expect violence on exercising a constitutional right?

That, I submit, is the philosophical principle that is being trashed to pieces even here in O-Land.

Once violence is accepted as normal, more violence happens as normal. This is not something people should accept as normal. Yet, by your statement, you are accepting it.

I'm not criticizing you for this, either. I've seen your posts enough to get an idea of your thinking and I know it's not your fault. You have a good heart. I believe the propaganda of the last couple of decades is taking effect on the public in general. Violence--real violence, not fictional violence like in movies and games--has been normalized through the American mainstream media because race, because Muslims, because pipeline, because campus speeches, because PC language, because Wall Street, because politics, because election results, because fake news, because because because.

But violence hasn't been normalized for me. Thugs are thugs no matter what color they are or what's in their heads.

Reason doesn't work well for communication between humans when thuggery is normalized. A baseball bat is not a syllogism.

As to payment for damages, I hear the white-side organizers are being sued for a million dollars or so by the victims of the car ramming.

I, personally, would have no problem having the violent organizations--on all sides, not just the white side--pay for the destruction they caused.

Michael

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In this case it's natural for there to be violence in this case because Nazis are violent.  There's a history of white racist terrorism https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/6tivk2/army_discharged_charlottesville_suspect_james_a/dlkzz2p/

And there's a history of antifas violently resisting them (I don't know too much about antifa, but so far as I can tell they haven't committed terrorism or murder).

 

So violence is to be expected.  I don't justify it in the same way I don't justify the damage a hurricane might cause.  

 

I think the Nazis should have to pay for security, the counterprotestors aren't the ones initiating the disruption.

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2 hours ago, RobinReborn said:

I think the Nazis should have to pay for security, the counterprotestors aren't the ones initiating the disruption.

RR,

Actually they did. The protesters had a legal permit and were marching peacefully. The antifa folks, who did not have a permit, jumped in and started whacking away. And off it went.

Facts are facts, irrespective of what storyline you wish to believe in. As Ayn Rand says, A is A. You don't have to like A  and you might think A should not exist, but a story cannot will it out of existence. There's video of this stuff.

Michael

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2 hours ago, RobinReborn said:

Were any of the Nazis hurt?  How can you equivocate between the two groups?

Of course there were. You won't find it in the mainstream media or even on Google right now. They're running an agenda. Besides, the car ramming was so dramatic, that's all you can find other than the rapper dude you mentioned. And I don't feel like scouring white power sites for the photos. (I don't like those people.)

I can "equivocate" between any group I wish if it practices violence. I don't like violent anyone.

Violence is the principle. Without violence, I don't care what anyone says, regardless of how vile. I just move on and get away from him. In Brazil, they say when one donkey brays, the donkey beside him lowers his ear.

With violence, though, I have to pay attention. So I will respond with violence, regardless of whether the person attacking me is a white supremacist or an antifa dude. 

Would you prefer to be bashed in the head by an antifa dude over a white supremacist? If so, why? Your bashed in skull won't know the difference.

Why not choose no one bashing anyone in the head?

That's even good philosophy.

Michael

 

 

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4 hours ago, RobinReborn said:

(I don't know too much about antifa, but so far as I can tell they haven't committed terrorism or murder).

RR,

I would say they haven't been caught yet in anything highly dramatic and they know how to play for the camera. But they are well funded and highly organized. The name doesn't mean anything in terms of who these people are. They have been around for years doing damage.

EDIT: Here are a couple of things to read. First an eyewitness account by a NYT reporter, but whose report of Antifa violence caused such outrage on the left Internet warriors, she backtracked in sheer terror while trying to put on a brave face. It's a sad process to see how this unfolded, but you can read it here: 

NY Times Reporter Admits Antifa Protesters In Charlottesville Were 'Hate-Filled' And Violent Before Left Forces Her To Backtrack
"I saw club-wielding 'antifa' beating white nationalists being led out of the park."

Her offending tweet that she had to backtrack:

08.16.2017-00.24.png

As to who the Antifa folks are, Rush Limbaugh summed it up nicely here: 

New York Times Columnist Backtracks After Threats from Violent Left

From the transcript:

Quote

... by the way, who is this Antifa? They keep naming this. All this is Occupy Wall Street. All this is is Black Lives Matter. There’s nothing new here. It’s not a brand-new group of protesters who are minding their own business, decent, hardworking Americans who became outraged at Donald Trump. These are the same bought-and-paid-for malcontents that are lurking at every World Trade Organization meeting, every G20 economic summit.

These are the famed anarchists that show up and try to burn buildings and start fires and throw little firecracker bombs and so forth, same group of people been out there for years and years and years. It’s Occupy Wall Street, which was a manufactured group of people bought and paid for. It’s the same bunch. 

Michael

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3 hours ago, RobinReborn said:

So violence is to be expected.  I don't justify it in the same way I don't justify the damage a hurricane might cause.

RR,

So you don't believe in free will and moral codes? Self-responsibility?

Just gang warfare? That's your morality?

Michael

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On 8/14/2017 at 5:24 AM, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

Everyday my contempt for the elitist establishment (which owns the mainstream media) grows. Not only are they corrupt, they are idiots.

Milo sees what I see.

But the idiots don't see this.

And now they won't see if a real danger starts brewing. Why? Because they don't want to offend their sensitive little eyes. It might make them feel bad.

It's like putting a Band Aid on a potentially cancerous skin blemish and thinking the problem is solved.

Michael

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DHOvUmeXoAAhQPX.jpg

“Violence on many sides” claims and Hayek’s warning

In The Road to Serfdom, Hayek noticed the many students who went to Europe (especially to France and Germany) to study in the 1920s and 30s:

“Many a university teacher during the 1930’s has seen English and American students return from the Continent uncertain whether they were communists or Nazis and certain only that they hated Western liberal civilization.”

There are false equivalences — but differences between “far-left and “far right” are not relevant to evaluating those who arrive at protests armed with weapons and primed for violence.

The true equivalence is the underlying ideology of anti-individualism, anti-reason, and anti-liberalism. That ideology can come in variations, but our generation’s students still learn it from the same French and German intellectual sources and still militate for the same methods and results.

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3 minutes ago, anthony said:

There are false equivalences — but differences between “far-left and “far right” are not relevant to evaluating those who arrive at protests armed with weapons and primed for violence.

Tony,

In addition to violence, both Nazis and Antifa folks are left wing, literally.

:evil:  

(The devil icon is not for you. :) )

Michael

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Here's a new idea to throw into the mix.

I agree with Scott Adams on this.

I think I'm spending so much time on it because I'm fascinated at how otherwise intelligent humans are using their minds for groupthink and lynch-mob-like propositions that will probably embarrass them when the dust dies down and they realize they meant it at the time.

Michael

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32 minutes ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

Tony,

In addition to violence, both Nazis and Antifa folks are left wing, literally.

:evil:  

(The devil icon is not for you. :) )

Michael

Yes sure. The benefit of an O'ist background is we take that as assumed, we know the false dichotomy. Then I find it surprising when few other people do. You are interested in Jordan Petersen I notice, Michael. In my visit now to Stephen Hicks' site, I see the two will be in discussion, tomorrow- 17th. 1.00 PM, Eastern.

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7 minutes ago, anthony said:

You are interested in Jordan Petersen I notice, Michael. In my visit to Stephen Hicks' site, I see the two will be in discussion, tomorrow- 17th.

Tony,

If I don't catch that discussion, I will catch the video.

:)

Michael

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You know, after witnessing the mass hysteria going on for the last three days and all the vile accusations against President Trump, when I saw the following video, I had to crack up.

You just can't make up this level of dishonesty and hypocrisy by the media.

But let's let a few of them off. They would be the ones who are just stupid.

:)

Wait until the mass hysteria passes. The media thinks it has credibility problem now. Wait until then.

Michael

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