Fake News

[Peter]

Some journalists seem to be imitating, "Ooh, ooh! Mr. Cotter." But if they are not protesting, they can't be escorted out of the room. 

It doesn't look like there will be an "American" consequence because of the death of an American based journalist, but I doubt it will happen again. Now in North Korean news conferences the reporters are hauled out of the room and shot on the spot. That's why no real reporters ever ask a question of Lil Kim.    

 

[william.scherk]

A non-Fake statement from the President released today: 

Statement from President Donald J. Trump on Standing with Saudi Arabia | The White House

America First!

The world is a very dangerous place!

The country of Iran, as an example, is responsible for a bloody proxy war against Saudi Arabia in Yemen, trying to destabilize Iraq’s fragile attempt at democracy, supporting the terror group Hezbollah in Lebanon, propping up dictator Bashar Assad in Syria (who has killed millions of his own citizens), and much more. Likewise, the Iranians have killed many Americans and other innocent people throughout the Middle East. Iran states openly, and with great force, “Death to America!” and “Death to Israel!” Iran is considered “the world’s leading sponsor of terror.”

On the other hand, Saudi Arabia would gladly withdraw from Yemen if the Iranians would agree to leave. They would immediately provide desperately needed humanitarian assistance. Additionally, Saudi Arabia has agreed to spend billions of dollars in leading the fight against Radical Islamic Terrorism.

After my heavily negotiated trip to Saudi Arabia last year, the Kingdom agreed to spend and invest $450 billion in the United States. This is a record amount of money. It will create hundreds of thousands of jobs, tremendous economic development, and much additional wealth for the United States. Of the $450 billion, $110 billion will be spent on the purchase of military equipment from Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Raytheon and many other great U.S. defense contractors. If we foolishly cancel these contracts, Russia and China would be the enormous beneficiaries – and very happy to acquire all of this newfound business. It would be a wonderful gift to them directly from the United States!

The crime against Jamal Khashoggi was a terrible one, and one that our country does not condone. Indeed, we have taken strong action against those already known to have participated in the murder. After great independent research, we now know many details of this horrible crime. We have already sanctioned 17 Saudis known to have been involved in the murder of Mr. Khashoggi, and the disposal of his body.

Representatives of Saudi Arabia say that Jamal Khashoggi was an “enemy of the state” and a member of the Muslim Brotherhood, but my decision is in no way based on that – this is an unacceptable and horrible crime. King Salman and Crown Prince Mohammad bin Salman vigorously deny any knowledge of the planning or execution of the murder of Mr. Khashoggi. Our intelligence agencies continue to assess all information, but it could very well be that the Crown Prince had knowledge of this tragic event – maybe he did and maybe he didn’t!

That being said, we may never know all of the facts surrounding the murder of Mr. Jamal Khashoggi. In any case, our relationship is with the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. They have been a great ally in our very important fight against Iran. The United States intends to remain a steadfast partner of Saudi Arabia to ensure the interests of our country, Israel and all other partners in the region. It is our paramount goal to fully eliminate the threat of terrorism throughout the world!

I understand there are members of Congress who, for political or other reasons, would like to go in a different direction – and they are free to do so. I will consider whatever ideas are presented to me, but only if they are consistent with the absolute security and safety of America. After the United States, Saudi Arabia is the largest oil producing nation in the world. They have worked closely with us and have been very responsive to my requests to keeping oil prices at reasonable levels – so important for the world. As President of the United States I intend to ensure that, in a very dangerous world, America is pursuing its national interests and vigorously contesting countries that wish to do us harm. Very simply it is called America First!

[caroljane]

1 hour ago, william.scherk said:

A non-Fake statement from the President released today: 

Statement from President Donald J. Trump on Standing with Saudi Arabia | The White House

America First!

The world is a very dangerous place!

The country of Iran, as an example, is responsible for a bloody proxy war against Saudi Arabia in Yemen, trying to destabilize Iraq’s fragile attempt at democracy, supporting the terror group Hezbollah in Lebanon, propping up dictator Bashar Assad in Syria (who has killed millions of his own citizens), and much more. Likewise, the Iranians have killed many Americans and other innocent people throughout the Middle East. Iran states openly, and with great force, “Death to America!” and “Death to Israel!” Iran is considered “the world’s leading sponsor of terror.”

On the other hand, Saudi Arabia would gladly withdraw from Yemen if the Iranians would agree to leave. They would immediately provide desperately needed humanitarian assistance. Additionally, Saudi Arabia has agreed to spend billions of dollars in leading the fight against Radical Islamic Terrorism.

After my heavily negotiated trip to Saudi Arabia last year, the Kingdom agreed to spend and invest $450 billion in the United States. This is a record amount of money. It will create hundreds of thousands of jobs, tremendous economic development, and much additional wealth for the United States. Of the $450 billion, $110 billion will be spent on the purchase of military equipment from Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Raytheon and many other great U.S. defense contractors. If we foolishly cancel these contracts, Russia and China would be the enormous beneficiaries – and very happy to acquire all of this newfound business. It would be a wonderful gift to them directly from the United States!

The crime against Jamal Khashoggi was a terrible one, and one that our country does not condone. Indeed, we have taken strong action against those already known to have participated in the murder. After great independent research, we now know many details of this horrible crime. We have already sanctioned 17 Saudis known to have been involved in the murder of Mr. Khashoggi, and the disposal of his body.

Representatives of Saudi Arabia say that Jamal Khashoggi was an “enemy of the state” and a member of the Muslim Brotherhood, but my decision is in no way based on that – this is an unacceptable and horrible crime. King Salman and Crown Prince Mohammad bin Salman vigorously deny any knowledge of the planning or execution of the murder of Mr. Khashoggi. Our intelligence agencies continue to assess all information, but it could very well be that the Crown Prince had knowledge of this tragic event – maybe he did and maybe he didn’t!

That being said, we may never know all of the facts surrounding the murder of Mr. Jamal Khashoggi. In any case, our relationship is with the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. They have been a great ally in our very important fight against Iran. The United States intends to remain a steadfast partner of Saudi Arabia to ensure the interests of our country, Israel and all other partners in the region. It is our paramount goal to fully eliminate the threat of terrorism throughout the world!

I understand there are members of Congress who, for political or other reasons, would like to go in a different direction – and they are free to do so. I will consider whatever ideas are presented to me, but only if they are consistent with the absolute security and safety of America. After the United States, Saudi Arabia is the largest oil producing nation in the world. They have worked closely with us and have been very responsive to my requests to keeping oil prices at reasonable levels – so important for the world. As President of the United States I intend to ensure that, in a very dangerous world, America is pursuing its national interests and vigorously contesting countries that wish to do us harm. Very simply it is called America First!

This comes on the  day of undoubtedly false reports that Trump doesn't visit troops in war zones because he doesn't want to be connected with loser wars, and besides, people want to kill him.

(People wanted to kill Obama and still do, and Bush for all I know, but they went to meet their soldiers  down in the bleak dark loser places. But I digress.)

No doubt his Altogether Imperial Highness is too busy personally at home,fixing the technical glitches that are withholding the veterans' GIBill benefits. Now I call that courage.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

1 hour ago, william.scherk said:

The correct way to discuss is to correct an interlocutor on anything -- small, large or picayune -- that seems to lead to misunderstanding or is quite likely wrong.

William,

If this agency thing were trivial or semantics or a commonly understood manner of saying something (or picayune to use your term), I would not have mentioned it. 

But it's not. Culture happens by the way people frame things over and over and over.

Think "fearless leader" kind of thing.

Acosta did not, does not, and will not have good intentions. Making it seem like he does is glossing over with word games the nastiness of the fake news media. If one does that often enough, some people actually get fooled into believing the oddest things, like, for instance, Russians changed the election results. 

Here's the result from last August--and this is based solely on the way it's been framed with linguistic tricks by the press, over and over and over:

Gallup Poll Shows 78% Of Democrats Mistakenly Believe Russia Changed Election Results

Here's the way it's normally framed by the press, pollsters, etc., that leads to the Gallup result with clearer language:

Poll: Almost half of Americans believe Russia meddled in election

Building CYA gotchas into messages doesn't reduce the misinformation load in them. All they do is provide CYA to propagandists when the heat is on. On being accused of spreading misinformation or fake news, they normally respond like this: "Come on... meddled doesn't mean falsifying votes," or something like that.

But they are fully aware that their message lands that way on the public. That's why they do it. If it didn't, how to explain the results of the Gallup poll that used clear language instead of euphemisms?

So I repeat, disappearing with Acosta's agency as an initiator of turmoil due to his rotten character is not trivial. He's not a good guy about whom one can say, "do like Jim Acosta does," and mean something proper and noble stemming from benevolence of spirit. If you are talking about Acosta doing proper and noble acts, you have to say something like, "do like Jim Acosta is forced to do," to get the frame of his rottenness communicated correctly. He will certainly do nothing proper and noble re President Trump because he wants to. Hell, he even has to be forced into common decency for it to take.

Michael

[Peter]

Fake Headline. Canada couldn't survive without The United States. Mexico would be ruled by the Incans and Mayans. The world would have had twenty world wars instead of just two.

[Jon Letendre]

President Trump will be revered for generations to come. There will be monuments to him in cities around the globe. School children will learn how he was opposed by almost everyone but still saved the world.

 

[Jonathan]

17 minutes ago, caroljane said:

This comes on the undoubtedly day of undoubtedly false reports that Trump doesn't visit troops in war zones because he doesn't want to be connected with loser wars, and besides, people want to kill him.

(People wanted to kill Obama and still do, and Bush for all I know, but they went to meet their soldiers  down in the bleak dark loser places. But I digresss.)

No doubt his Altogether Imperial Highness is too busy personally at home,fixing the technical glitches that are withholding the veterans' GIBill benefits. Now I call that courage.

That makes nostalgic. 'Member back when Hillary landed under sniper fire in Bosnia. Man, that was so heroic.

J

[william.scherk]

Opinions differ. That is what makes this place occasionally great. We needn't follow the prescriptions of an overseer or supreme arbiter, although we can surely take criticisms aboard, and take mental note of competing analyses and points of view.

On the other hand, "Fuck you and all your gaslighting."

Edited November 20, 2018 by william.scherk
Removed an echo

[Peter]

17 minutes ago, Jonathan said:

That makes nostalgic. 'Member back when Hillary landed under sniper fire in Bosnia. Man, that was so heroic.

J

Ha. I had forgotten about that. I think the younger Dem's in the House may unseat Pelosi and one of them will run for Prez in 2020. I bet the puppet master Soros is grooming one of them now. 

[Jon Letendre]

34 minutes ago, Jonathan said:

That makes nostalgic. 'Member back when Hillary landed under sniper fire in Bosnia. Man, that was so heroic.

J

Remember that hypothetical 3am call to your President? Who do want taking that call?

Hillary got that call when she was Sec of State from Ambassador Stephens in Benghazi.

She went back to sleep mumbling “I can handle this, I’ll just have to make up something about an offensive video tomorrow.”

[caroljane]

49 minutes ago, Jon Letendre said:

President Trump will be revered for generations to come. There will be monuments to him in cities around the globe. School children will learn how he was opposed by almost everyone but still saved the world.

 

Almost right, Nostradamus! He will indeed be revered by generations  - of Trumps and Kushners. And there are already monuments to him around the globe, known as Trump Hotels and golf courses.  There were lots of  monuments to Sadam Hussein in Iraq for  a while, too.

But as for future schools all being madrassas teaching his worship, I must wonder again, where you went to school. Was it a faith-based institution? In any case I recommend you re-read "Ozymandias", just for mental balance.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

1 hour ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

So I repeat, disappearing with Acosta's agency as an initiator of turmoil due to his rotten character is not trivial. He's not a good guy about whom one can say, "do like Jim Acosta does," and mean something proper and noble stemming from benevolence of spirit.

Well, maybe I stand corrected. 

Jim Acosta being reintroduced back into the Press Briefing Room. He was cautious at first, but he seems to be adjusting just fine. pic.twitter.com/RNgBYVvvcg

— Carpe Donktum (@Carpedonktum) November 20, 2018

   

Michael

[tmj]

Yeah Saddam had people killed to gain and keep power and had his own effigy fashioned, like everywhere.

 

Trump built hotels and golf courses and was elected, ‘xactly the same .

i read lots to.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

27 minutes ago, caroljane said:

And there are already monuments to him around the globe, known as Trump Hotels and golf courses.  There were lots of  monuments to Sadam Hussein in Iraq for  a while, too.

Carol,

I wonder what people do in Trump hotels and golf courses...

Hmmmmmm...

I think they stay in hotel rooms, play golf and so on. At least I used to think that.

Now that you have compared this to Saddam Hussein, I got to thinking...

They must all be up to no good... Every last rotten one of them...

 

Michael

[william.scherk]

[caroljane]

15 minutes ago, tmj said:

Yeah Saddam had people killed to gain and keep power and had his own effigy fashioned, like everywhere.

 

Trump built hotels and golf courses and was elected, 

You are right in the main, of course, but one small "Somewhat the same" quibble. Trump has in fact had his own effigy fashioned , in the form of faked Time covers, and erected, so to speak, on his own property of course.

[william.scherk]

1 hour ago, Peter said:

Fake Headline. Canada couldn't survive without The United States. Mexico would be ruled by the Incans and Mayans.

[caroljane]

11 minutes ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

Carol,

I wonder what people do in Trump hotels and golf courses...

Hmmmmmm...

I think they stay in hotel rooms, play golf and so on. At least I used to think that.

Now that you have compared this to Saddam Hussein, I got to thinking...

They must all be up to no good... Every last rotten one of them...

 

Michael

Yes!! I have often thought of all the godless golf and carryings-on in the rooms, and can only pray that these things do not soil the Sabbath and that Bibles will soon replace sex toys in every bedside drawer.

Yours in faith.

Mike Pence

[Jon Letendre]

On 10/30/2018 at 7:33 AM, Jonathan said:

Yeah, blah, blah, blah. We get it. You hate Trump, or the fictional version of Trump that you've chosen to believe in.

And you don't know why.

Boring as hell.

Do you have anything of substance? Anything other than your feelings?

You mention "mental laziness." Honestly, I've never seen anything of intellectual significance from you, Carol, beyond your expressions of your tastes and preferences in fictional literature. You seem to have some knowledge there, and also in regard to some of the other arts. You can deliver some substance, and even some depth on those topics.

Not so when it comes politics, economics, foreign policy, etc. All that you've got there is the sort of hollow snottiness that you display in the post quoted above.

Heh. It's not working. It's a pose. Your bluff has been called several times, and you've got nothing to back it up but more posing and bluffing.

J

Nothing of intellectual significance.

But she struts around striking superior poses because she is confident that she attended better schools than the people she disagrees with.

She has also pleaded poverty here. So, what good did her superior education do her, exactly? I guess either it wasn’t so superior after all or she just isn’t someone who can make something of an opportunity.

Utterly fucking pathetic.

[caroljane]

25 minutes ago, Jon Letendre said:

Nothing of intellectual significance.

But she struts around striking superior poses because she is confident that she attended better schools than the people she disagrees with.

She has also pleaded poverty here. So, what good did her superior education do her, exactly? I guess either it wasn’t so superior after all or she just isn’t someone who can make something of an opportunity.

Utterly fucking pathetic.

Incorrect!  Many people I disagree with went to better, or at least more famous, schools than I did.  They just didn't learn much there. As for your chosen lDear Leader, I do think good old St Stephen High School was a better educational institute than Elitist Reform Military School. yes sir. At least we got a vague idea of American presidential chronology, which Trump does not seem to have, even though we are not even Americans.

[Jonathan]

"Humor" always falls flat when it an angry caricature of a straw man.

J

[Jon Letendre]

1 minute ago, caroljane said:

Incorrect!  Many people I disagree with went to better, or at least more famous, schools than I did.  They just didn't learn much there. As for your chosen lDear Leader, I do think good old St Stephen High School was a better educational institute than Elitist Reform Military School. yes sir. At least we got a vague idea of American presidential chronology, which Trump does not seem to have, even though we are not even Americans.

Apparently not, though. Not when Trump went to RMS and can pay his bills and you went to SSHS and cannot pay yours. It would appear that you went to the possibly superior school and yet “didn’t learn much there.”

Where do you work that they value your contribution so little?

[Jonathan]

3 minutes ago, Jon Letendre said:

Apparently not, though. Not when Trump went to RMS and can pay his bills and you went to SSHS and cannot pay yours. It would appear that you went to the possibly superior school and yet “didn’t learn much there.”

Where do you work that they value your contribution so little?

She learned to be entitled.

J

[caroljane]

9 minutes ago, Jon Letendre said:

Apparently not, though. Not when Trump went to RMS and can pay his bills and you went to SSHS and cannot pay yours. It would appear that you went to the possibly superior school and yet “didn’t learn much there.”

Where do you work that they value your contribution so little?

Asked you first!  Where do you work that they value your contribution so much? After your superior education where?My history , educational professional and a lot personal,is all here, on OL, public knowledge.   yours , where was that again?

[Jon Letendre]

4 minutes ago, caroljane said:

Asked you first!  Where do you work that they value your contribution so much? After your superior education where?My history , educational professional and a lot personal,is all here, on OL, public knowledge.   yours , where was that again?

Not only first. Over and over and over again you ask “omg, where did you even go to school?”

Here’s where I went to school, Carol ...

Go. Fuck. Your. Self.