mp3 - Islamic invasion of Germany

[anthony]

On 2017/03/09 at 2:07 AM, william.scherk said:

My interactions with Syrian refugees locally has confirmed my suspicions that some of them become 'super-patriots' almost immediately, as if Canada were an Empire protective of minority 'nations' within a common weal. They have been granted season tickets to this great stadium of the upper leagues.  They quickly grasp that.

 

France's suburban ghettos have no exact counterpart here as Canada was not an independent colonial power with possessions in Muslim lands.  And I could argue for a month, both sides, on incidents or elements of racial and religious aggression or discrimination in the public sphere, from Muslims hounding schoolboy Hindus to assaults and threats against the Jewish communities, to seriously religious wackjobs of a Muslim faith.  Canada is not Pollyanna World.

Back to your theme, Tony.  We may not inspect each Muslim's mind for immoral thoughts and plans ... or interrogate each one with guaranteed responses of truthful confession ... but we can be vigilant, probing, watchful and rational about our suspicions.  

A community watches over its members, in more ways than one. Keep newcomers in a close community embrace the better to observe them and teach them the values we are bound by.  

A benefit of the raucous debate within Canada is the benefit of all rug-beating.

 

I take your point, and France is not much comparison with an assimilating Canada, clearly. Nearly all who want to come there, to a free-ish democracy, want to be there for good reason, to leave the worst of control and repression behind them. I'm not so big on the "[keeping] newcomers in a close community embrace". It will tacitly have its place I guess, but allowing a person space to his own learning and thinking about the Canadian culture displays more confidence and trust in his choices, until ultimately he will show his true colours of his own accord. That should obviate the 'pockets' or "ghettoes". One learns about people largely by one to one interactions (I think), and separation, suspicion or fear or hypocrisy and deception are foes of a good society. Which is why I still think that it would be moral and rational - for their long-term self-interests - for individual Muslims there, to speak up loudly and make their conviction plain that the ugly side of Sharia was also left behind and has no further place in their lives. There are Muslim reformists, and they should link with them.

But there remains (I sense) some amount of 'innate', hubristic loyalty to their religion/culture/laws which many see as threatened by westerners. So Muslims in the West must exist in a self-conflict. What is their primary identity? I can hardly remember a conversation with a Muslim here, which didn't eventually point to his and most Muslims' perceived victim-complex. It has often bothered me when the most independently thoughtful man 'reverts to type', so to speak, and begins to show his fear and distrust, if not superiority and disdain, for westerners - which was first learned in Islamic teaching. For that, I can at least understand his rationale for Bannon's remarks, while opposing what he said as collectivist and determinist (we contain an ideology in our DNA?).

[anthony]

On 2017/03/09 at 2:05 AM, jts said:

Islamophobia is a nonsense word. A phobia is a mental disorder. They are trying to get people to think fear of Islam is a mental disorder. Fear of the number 13 is a phobia. Fear of Islam is not a phobia.

 

Well, we know "a phobia" is not as it's meant, rather as "hate" (as disseminated by the Left, largely). Disgust for portions of Islam's teachings and certainly of the preached rhetoric and violent actions by some adherents, is rational. It is appropriate to fear what threatens our values, but where there's a perceived impotence to avoid, or to change, the threat - naturally fear turns to hate, and that harms no one but one's self (if permitted to be prolonged).

The 'non-judgmental' Left will not miss a chance to vilify ('judge') any criticism which they feel they don't like. It seems they rest on the presumption that you, me and everybody is as "emotionalist" as they are, and that you - like them - will make judgments and act upon your feelings too. Therefore, they shut down debates with '--phobic' slurs.

But as long as one does not even consider initiating violence against people of a faith or race, etc.,, frankly one's "phobic" feelings are entirely one's own business. If one is irrational in one's fear and hatred (a blanket condemnation of an individual by his or her race, say) - then it is important for one to amend and objectively make it right in reality - again, for one's own sake, first.

Hatred and bigotry exists as much within the Left as anywhere, although they're prejudicially selective about it: e.g. it's fine to hate Jews, but not Islamists; etc..

 

[BaalChatzaf]

13 minutes ago, anthony said:

Well, we know "a phobia" is not as it's meant, rather as "hate" (as disseminated by the Left, largely). Disgust for portions of Islam's teachings and certainly of the preaching and actions by some adherents is rational. It is appropriate to fear what threatens our values, but where there's impotence to avoid, or to change, the threat - naturally fear turns to hate, and that harms no one but one's self (if permitted to be prolonged).

The 'non-judgmental' Left will not miss a chance to vilify ('judge') any criticism which they feel they don't like. It seems they rest on the presumption that you, me and everybody is as "emotionalist" as they are, and that you - like them - will make judgments and act upon your feelings too. Therefore, they shut down debates with '--phobic' slurs.

But as long as one does not even consider initiating violence against people of a faith or race, etc.,, frankly one's "phobic" feelings are entirely one's own business. If one is irrational in one's fear and hatred (a blanket condemnation of an individual by his or her race, say) - then it is important for one to amend and objectively make it right in reality - again, for one's own sake, first.

Hatred and bigotry exists as much within the Left as anywhere, although they're prejudicially selective about it: e.g. it's fine to hate Jews, but not Islamists; etc..

 

I was under the impression that "phobia"  meant fear, loathing and dislike and it is something that conduces to avoidance and/or rejection.

[anthony]

12 minutes ago, BaalChatzaf said:

I was under the impression that "phobia"  meant fear, loathing and dislike and it is something that conduces to avoidance and/or rejection.

Ha, right. Not strong enough for progressives, however; the greatest sin by them is "hate".

The first task of the subjectivist, hard Left is the mangling of words to what ~they~ want the words to mean.

G.Orwell: "But if thought corrupts language, language can also corrupt thought".

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act".

[william.scherk]

 

5 hours ago, anthony said:

On 3/8/2017 at 4:07 PM, william.scherk said:

Back to your theme, Tony.  We may not inspect each Muslim's mind for immoral thoughts and plans ... or interrogate each one with guaranteed responses of truthful confession ... but we can be vigilant, probing, watchful and rational about our suspicions.  

A community watches over its members, in more ways than one. Keep newcomers in a close community embrace the better to observe them and teach them the values we are bound by.  

 I'm not so big on the "[keeping] newcomers in a close community embrace". It will tacitly have its place I guess, but allowing a person space to his own learning and thinking about the Canadian culture displays more confidence and trust in his choices, until ultimately he will show his true colours of his own accord.

I agree, generally, and could have made clear the 'close community embrace' is my own phrase and understanding. It can seem a little bit sinister perhaps to be ''under vigilant watch by friendly people,"  or "invited into the host-community affairs,"  and yet the interfaith stuff I have attended seems less sinister or overbearing.

The rest of the 'embraces' are regularized ways newcomers are instructed in English (or French) by various public, private and ad hoc groups and individuals -- and receive practical guidance to every-day matters, mores, habits, from transport to labour market, training.  The last kind of 'embrace' is that of private sponsorships of individuals and famiies.

I am not sure if I gave a good impression of my thoughts there.  Thanks for engaging with the argument.

5 hours ago, anthony said:

One learns about people largely by one to one interactions (I think), and separation, suspicion or fear or hypocrisy and deception are foes of a good society. Which is why I still think that it would be moral and rational - for their long-term self-interests - for individual Muslims there, to speak up loudly and make their conviction plain that the ugly side of Sharia was also left behind and has no further place in their lives. 

I think I understand where you are coming from: how can one 'peer into another's heart?'  I mostly agree that separation, suspicion, fear, hypocrisy and deception are foes of a Good Society. 

[jts]

This is Brigitte Gabriel's response to the statement that most Muslims are peaceful.  They are irrelevant.

 

[jts]

Jeff Rense and Dr. Patricia Doyle have absolutely no respect for cultural diversity.

Published on Mar 23, 2017

Quote

This video must be watched by every American who cares about our country. The ongoing importation of tens of thousands of illegal muslims by the Trump administration is being done for ONE purpose only - the invasion and ultimate overthrow of America and the destruction of our history and entire way of life. The very same thing that is being done to Europe. Don't think so? Here is 100% proof and you better listen VERY closely to this woman who was deeply involved with the UN 'refugee' program until she FOUND OUT what is REALLY going on. This video will leave you enraged. We are literally being set up for our demise. These 'refugees' (NOT) are the dregs of their countries of origin and are even being brought in from the Congo in Africa! They are completely, 100% UNvetted and commonly carry deadly and HIGHLY communicable diseases like TB, AIDS, Leprosy and many more. Furthermore, they are almost immediately being given LONG TERM SOCIAL
SECURITY…which means for LIFE. So you and I are paying for them for the REST OF THIER LIVES. They will never work and they are 'retired' forever in the land of the free and the home of the brave. We are being raped as a people and as a nation. Everything we have been reporting to you is now proven 100% accurate and correct.

 

[jts]

An important point that many people don't get. Don't judge Islam by Muslims. Maybe the violent Muslims are acting contrary to Islam. Maybe the peaceful Muslims are acting contrary to Islam.

Judge Islam by Muhammad, founder of Islam, and his teachings. David Wood explains.

 

[BaalChatzaf]

4 hours ago, jts said:

An important point that many people don't get. Don't judge Islam by Muslims. Maybe the violent Muslims are acting contrary to Islam. Maybe the peaceful Muslims are acting contrary to Islam.

Judge Islam by Muhammad, founder of Islam, and his teachings. David Wood explains.

 

Mohammed was a pervert,  a child molester  (he married and penetrated a nine year old girl)  and his ravings  unleashed  inspired murderers on the world.

By their fruits ye shall know them. 

[jts]

1 hour ago, BaalChatzaf said:

Mohammed was a pervert,  a child molester  (he married and penetrated a nine year old girl)  and his ravings  unleashed  inspired murderers on the world.

By their fruits ye shall know them. 

I nominate Muhammad as a candidate to challenge Kant for the title of most evil man who ever lived. As evil as Hitler and Stalin were, they did not create a religion that inspired millions of people to follow their example.

 

[BaalChatzaf]

9 hours ago, jts said:

I nominate Muhammad as a candidate to challenge Kant for the title of most evil man who ever lived. As evil as Hitler and Stalin were, they did not create a religion that inspired millions of people to follow their example.

 

The most "evil" thing Kant said  was that there are  synthetic propositions that are analytically true.  He was wrong.  Mistaken but not evil.  Hume had almost killed metaphysics  but  Kant brought metaphysics back to life.  That is not evil.  But it is unfortunate. 

And Kant was right on this:  our presuppositions do influence our perceptions.  As we think, so do we interpret.

[jts]

Lawyer types might figure this out better than I can. It looks to me like sharia (Islamic law) is starting to be enforced in Canada. If this is not stopped, it might set up a dangerous precedent. Maybe you all thought M 103 was harmless. Think again. You heard of creeping socialism. This looks like creeping sharia.

https://www.therebel.media/help_john

 

[Brant Gaede]

On 3/26/2017 at 6:40 AM, BaalChatzaf said:

The most "evil" thing Kant said  was that there are  synthetic propositions that are analytically true.  He was wrong.  Mistaken but not evil.  Hume had almost killed metaphysics  but  Kant brought metaphysics back to life.  That is not evil.  But it is unfortunate. 

And Kant was right on this:  our presuppositions do influence our perceptions.  As we think, so do we interpret.

So, just think your way around this.

--Brant

and that's why we have judges at trial--and juries

[Brant Gaede]

4 hours ago, jts said:

Lawyer types might figure this out better than I can. It looks to me like sharia (Islamic law) is starting to be enforced in Canada. If this is not stopped, it might set up a dangerous precedent. Maybe you all thought M 103 was harmless. Think again. You heard of creeping socialism. This looks like creeping sharia.

https://www.therebel.media/help_john

 

The real problem seems to be the existence of the "Human Rights Tribunal."

--Brant

[anthony]

Pathetic. Horrible. Another proud country servilely capitulates in fear and guilt to that imported ideology. Human rights, my arse. Jerry, prepare to be going for re-education training shortly. Remember, take your shoes off, you don't know where someone could have been praying. That poor black man was almost in tears from humiliation - he probably firmly believed he'd moved to a free nation. But misplaced sympathy and "human" rights instead goes to his accusers. Looks like the West is surrendering, piece by piece, not with a bang but a whimper comes to mind.

[BaalChatzaf]

8 hours ago, Brant Gaede said:

The real problem seems to be the existence of the "Human Rights Tribunal."

--Brant

Reminds me of the closing line in the motion picture  "Bridge over the River Kwai"

"madness........madness"  

[jts]

This is a 55 minute lecture about Islam by Robert Spencer.  I thought this lecture was very informative.

 

 

[jts]

This might be the clearest presentation of Islam I came across so far. Anyone who listens to this attentively from the start to the end and still does not understand why Islam is evil is probably hopeless.

 

 

[Brant Gaede]

Islam isn't evil. It takes adherents to make and do evil. In so far as they act like fascists Muslims can be dealt with. In so far as they don't you can send in the missionaries. But good luck in trying to de-evil over a billion human beings through their faith.

Objectivism isn't evil . . .

--Brant

[william.scherk]

Online emporium Al-Balagh Academy offers a course, "Atheism and Islam." It costs money, and is taught by a group of Muslim thinkers/scholars, including at least one idiot.