Conspiracy theories and Conspiracy theorists

[Jon Letendre]

2 hours ago, william.scherk said:

Threatening behaviour ...

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

On March 5, 2018, Infowars published an article by Dr. Jerome Corsi titled Anti-Trump Left Tries to Revive Dying ‘Russia’ Narrative by Blaming Roger Stone. In that article, Dr. Corsi alleged that Seth Rich and his brother, Aaron Rich, were involved in downloading and leaking emails from the DNC to WikiLeaks.

Dr. Corsi acknowledges that his allegations were not based upon any independent factual knowledge regarding Seth or Aaron Rich. Instead, Dr. Corsi relied primarily on, and quoted from, a column by Adm. James Lyons (Ret.) that was published in the Washington Times on March 2, 2018, but was retracted on September 30, 2018. (The Washington Times’ retraction is available here.)

It was not Dr. Corsi’s intent to rely upon inaccurate information, or to cause any suffering to Mr. Rich’s family. To that end, Dr. Corsi retracts the article and apologizes to the Rich family.
[⟚⟚⟚⟚⟚⟚]

 

I’ve asked you to leave me alone, including not quoting me, pedophile.

[caroljane]

5 hours ago, Jon Letendre said:

I’ve asked you to leave me alone, including not quoting me, pedophile.

While we're asking stuff, I ask you to get a thorough psychiatric evaluation, and if you don't do it, I might call you such terrible names that you will go mad with terror and turn into a raving liberal.

(Such are the heights of rational discourse on OL these days, apparently).

[Jon Letendre]

42 minutes ago, caroljane said:

While we're asking stuff, I ask you to get a thorough psychiatric evaluation, and if you don't do it, I might call you such terrible names that you will go mad with terror and turn into a raving liberal.

(Such are the heights of rational discourse on OL these days, apparently).

Most people could handle a request to leave another person alone. Healthy people wouldn’t want to bother a person after the request. But you and the pedophile are not healthy people, so your reaction is to harass more. Both of you are obsessed with me. It’s creepy how you can’t stop.

[caroljane]

14 hours ago, Jon Letendre said:

Most people could handle a request to leave another person alone. .......Healthy people wouldn’t want to bother a person after the request. But you and the pedophile are not healthy people, so your reaction is to harass more. Both of you are obsessed with me. It’s creepy how you can’t stop.

To leave another person alone, and not bothering them, does not in my unhealthy obsessed mind, include occasionally quoting their public posts.  Something like leaving multiple obscene voicemail abusive threats would be bothering them, or seem obsessive maybe to the recipient.... but we rational beings don't do that, do we?

[Jon Letendre]

8 minutes ago, caroljane said:

To leave another person alone, and not bothering them, does not in my unhealthy obsessed mind, include occasionally quoting their public posts.  Something like leaving multiple obscene voicemail abusive threats would be bothering them, or seem obsessive maybe to the recipient.... but we rational beings don't do that, do we?

To leave another alone does not include quoting their posts, is correct, idiot.

Are you getting abusive voicemails? And you think I am doing it? Sorry to disappoint you, it’s not me.

Seeing how you come to a website not for you to stalk me, I am not surprised that you make enemies everywhere you go and that someone is in turn harassing you. Contact the police and follow their advice to mind your own business and not start things you don’t actually want.

[caroljane]

On 3/5/2019 at 4:37 PM, Jon Letendre said:

I’ve asked you to leave me alone, including not quoting me, pedophile.

Changed your mind, have you, genius?

[Jon Letendre]

You and the pedophile can’t resist your stalker urges to pursue me over and over.

[william.scherk]

On 2/24/2019 at 10:19 AM, william.scherk said:

"Does 'Q' pollute discourse?"

"Shut your face, you disgusting pedophile."

"Discussion was his main interest. Even 'difficult' disputes were in his wheelhouse. We will never forget his contributions to rational debate and disagreement."

[Jon Letendre]

What’s the matter, Billyboy, things not going well over at your safe space climate doom blog? Thought you would come over here and start a fight between Michael and I over Corsi? You really are a stupid individual.

Get back at your pathetic blog and try to defend yourself there, as an honest discussant would.

[william.scherk]

On 3/5/2019 at 11:56 AM, Jon Letendre said:

Seth Rich leaked the DNC emails and they murdered him for it.

Not supported by the evidence, Jon, sorry. 

On 3/5/2019 at 12:30 PM, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

I still say Corsi was threatened and that annuls his so-called confession. (Note - I say that and I don't even care for Corsi anymore since his spat with Roger Stone.)

By 'confession' do you mean the note of retraction posted at Infowars and cited above? 

I guess what I don't understand is why one might believe the retraction and apology cannot cohere with the truth.  In other words, if Corsi says "I relied on a bunch of shit that has been retracted," then why is that suspect?

Is it because Corsi himself is suspect?

Quote

Corsi wasn't retracting anything before he needed to set up a go-fund-me legal defense fund against Mueller where he was going to lose his house and everything.

So, do you think Corsi is entirely making up what he relates in the retraction/apology?

Quote

Confessions under duress and torture (psychological and otherwise) bear little credibility with me.

This seems to imply that Corsi was tortured.  Where is the evidence of torture? 

Quote

To religious inquisitors and zealots, they are all the proof they ever need to promote their agendas. (And in the case of Mueller's defenders, these tend to be the same zealots who claim torture doesn't work.)

Jon is a Mueller defender -- he says Mueller is a white-hat. Does that factor in to your own opinion?

Speaking of zealotry.

Edited March 8, 2019 by william.scherk
Link to Mueller indictments added; link to Corsi retraction

[william.scherk]

Torture Files ...

Jerome Corsi is apparently suing Alex Jones.

Quote

[...] In their lawsuit, Corsi and Klayman allege that Jones and Infowars are hurting their careers as rival right-wing commentators, costing them “financial support and sales.”

Corsi and Jones weren’t always at odds. A year ago, Corsi, a promoter of conspiracy theories like the “birther” claim that Barack Obama was born in Kenya, worked as Infowars’ Washington bureau chief. He appeared at events with Jones and went on Jones’ Infowars show. After Corsi left Infowars last June, the outlet paid him a hefty $15,000 monthly severance for six months.

But Corsi’s relationship with Jones has soured as Special Counsel Robert Mueller investigates whether Corsi connected the Donald Trump campaign with WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange during the 2016 presidential election. The connection allegedly came through Trump adviser Roger Stone, himself an Infowars host who was arrested and charged with lying to Congress in January.

As Mueller’s investigators closed in, Corsi became unusually vocal about the investigation and hinted that he might cooperate with Mueller, prompting former allies like Jones and Stone to attack his credibility.

Corsi’s lawsuit mentions several attacks Jones and Stone have made on him through Infowars. In an October video, Jones claimed Corsi has dementia, and that he once saw Corsi lying on the ground at a steakhouse. In January, Stone, who is already being sued by Corsi in a separate lawsuit, said Corsi has a “feeble, alcohol-affected memory.”  

Stone has also attacked Klayman, a right-wing lawyer notorious for his courtroom antics.

“He’s an egomaniac, and he could be the single worst lawyer in America,” Stone said in one video mentioned in the lawsuit. “With him as Jerry Corsi’s lawyer, Corsi may get the electric chair.”

Full suit filing doc: https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Corsi-Klayman-Defamation.pdf

[Jon Letendre]

48 minutes ago, william.scherk said:

Not supported by the evidence, Jon, sorry. 

By 'confession' do you mean the note of retraction posted at Infowars and cited above? 

I guess what I don't understand is why one might believe the retraction and apology cannot cohere with the truth.  In other words, if Corsi says "I relied on a bunch of shit that has been retracted," then why is that suspect?

Is it because Corsi himself is suspect?

So, do you think Corsi is entirely making up what he relates in the retraction/apology?

This seems to imply that Corsi was tortured.  Where is the evidence of torture? 

Jon is a Mueller defender -- he says Mueller is a white-hat. Does that factor in to your own opinion?

Speaking of zealotry.

Spesking of pedos, fuck off, Billy!

You have unanswered questions over at your climate doom blog.

Do you really think your little ‘I’m a sincere discussant’ act here is fooling anyone, when we can all see how you conduct yourself there? Pitiful little piece of shit, you are.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

1 hour ago, william.scherk said:

So, do you think Corsi is entirely making up what he relates in the retraction/apology?

William,

Maybe...

It's entirely plausible given the nature of the bullying the state used against him.

Do you have evidence that he isn't making it up?

Garbage from bullies and spats isn't compelling.

I would like some real evidence.

Where, oh where, is your evidence?

   

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

btw - I am no fan of Corsi. I actually read Killing the Deep State: The Fight to Save President Trump.

This could have been a very good book, but was basically a rehash of stuff from online discussions and videos without much improvement. I know because there is nothing in the book I hadn't seen before back when I read it.

And, don't forget, most of the stuff one gets online needs a lot of improvement. This didn't happen in Corsi's book.

Whether I like Corsi or not, agree with him or not, consider him to be sloppy and speculative or not, think he does more bad than good for spreading a pro-Trump message or not, even think his QAnon stuff that he promoted up to getting in trouble with Mueller is credible or mostly made up to promote himself and sell his book, that does not excuse what the Mueller people did to him.

I get tickled by people who think Corsi was a kook until he said a message they agree with (his apology stuff). Then he becomes a credible source. L O friggin' L. In other words, to these people, Corsi lies until he doesn't. And they'll decide when he doesn't and becomes a sage.  

To me, Corsi is a kind of scholar for the fringe of the pro-Trump people. And he's not a very good scholar. In fact, at times, he's awful.

To get value out of his work, you have to use him in the same manner you use all the major conspiracy folks. He's a blunt instrument to crack open topics that the powerful want buried, but he's not reliable for the details. And all of his conclusions need to be taken as a batch of uneven opinions--some spot on, some wacky and everything in between--that need further research.

There's a trick to using these fringe folks correctly. See where the powerful get the most agitated and do the most damage to the fringe folks and right there will be the stuff to look at. (For a real good example, remember when they threw everything they had at a rather mediocre YouTube video maker to cover up the Benghazi mess? Or when they railroaded Dinesh D'Souza over campaign finance? Etc.?)

Since Mueller came at Corsi with guns blazing, that's where the rot is. It doesn't matter what Corsi says from that point on. What he was talking about is what they want silenced. In my opinion, starting with Seth Rich...

Michael

[william.scherk]

On 10/25/2016 at 12:34 PM, KorbenDallas said:

Here is the current summary excerpt from the Wikipedia page on conspiracy theories:

A conspiracy theory is a belief that a secret conspiracy has actually been decisive in producing a political event or evil outcome which the theorists strongly disapprove of.^[3] The conspiracy theory typically identifies the conspirators, provides evidence that supposedly links them together with an evil plan to harm the body politic, and may also point to a supposed cover up by authorities or media who should have stopped the conspiracy. The duty of the theorist is to pick from a myriad of facts and assumptions and reassemble them to form a picture of the conspiracy, as in a jigsaw puzzle. A theorist may publicly identify specific conspirators, and if they deny the allegations that is evidence they have been sworn to secrecy and are probably guilty. Historian Gordon Wood argues that since the Enlightenment of the 18th century, conspiracy theorists always assume that major evil events have been orchestrated and planned, and cannot have happened accidentally or coincidentally or as an unintended consequence of an innocent plan. That is, the jigsaw puzzle really does have a correct solution that ingenious detectives can discover.^[4]

One of the authors involved in the "Grievance Studies"  hoax/sting has a new article up at Areos:  "Should Universities Teach Conspiracy Theories as Knowledge?"

[Peter]

William wrote: One of the authors involved in the "Grievance Studies" hoax/sting has a new article up at Areos:  "Should Universities Teach Conspiracy Theories as Knowledge?" end quote

That’s complicated. Universities teaching “the art of creating conspiracy theories,” is morally similar to teaching people to build bombs or how to rob a bank.  

[Jon Letendre]

Crimes are always committed by single individual people. No one ever got together with other people to do a crime, that's stupid.

[Peter]

12 hours ago, Jon Letendre said:

Crimes are always committed by single individual people. No one ever got together with other people to do a crime, that's stupid.

Damn right! And those "posse things" are a hoax. People don't get together to go after bad guys except for The Lone Ranger and Tonto.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

You guys mean there is no Russian collusion?

 

Michael

[Jon Letendre]

1 hour ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

You guys mean there is no Russian collusion?

 

Michael

Being a “conspiracy theory” it was never even possible in the first place!

Charles Manson should be released, he harmed no one with his own hands and is only “guilty” by some hairbrained “conspiracy theory.”

[Jon Letendre]

The latest “conspiracy theory.” Now they expect us to believe in complex criminal conspiracies to scam college admissions! Hilarious! But we’re not that gullible, right!?

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-03-13/college-admissions-scandal-perfect-example-how-deeply-corrupt-america-has-become

[Jon Letendre]

That’s a fine institution you have there. Be a shame if someone came along and bankrupted it. Billion, B. Will he get that? No. But this is only one student. Wait for the class–actions and criminal judgements.

”Another lawsuit filed by Joshua Toy and his mother said he was denied college admission despite a 4.2 grade point average, and seeks $500 billion of damages from 45 defendants for defrauding and inflicting emotional distress on everyone whose “rights to a fair chance” to enter college was stolen.”

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-education-cheating-idUSKCN1QV20W

[william.scherk]

This is worth watching, whatever your feelings about theories.

 

[Jon Letendre]

 

[Jon Letendre]

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