Conspiracy theories and Conspiracy theorists


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3 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

These same assholes infiltrated the education system as time went on...

Here is a very good example of what I am talking about.

The worst thing that happened in the 20th century, the worst by far and any measure, is not taught.

It's a blank.

I remember trying to research this back in college when I first heard of it. Incidentally, I heard of it from Ayn Rand.

There was no Internet back then. And for a music major (I majored in music composition and trombone), there was no summary or layman's language version I could find without doing a hell of a lot of digging. So I merely took Rand's word for it. I skimmed some of the Solzhenitsyn stuff, but I wasn't ready for it because my knowledge of world history had only been informed by public education at the time.

My generation was probably the first where real indoctrination was taking hold and the fact that no one--no one at all--in my circles of relationships talked about this stuff is proof the indoctrination was already underway. People didn't talk about it because they simply didn't know about it.

btw - This video is not just on YouTube. It hit Real Clear Politics Video: Jordan Peterson On Soviet Horrors, The Gulag Archipelago: "This Is Not Widespread Knowledge"

Michael

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Ted (in) Lieu (of fill in the blank) pulled out his cell phone and on the Congressional record called Candace Owens a ****er lover. I saw it !

Laser cut iceberg---it's about THE TRUTH people: Believe!

Two thumbs up.     We can only hope there is enough talent out there to replace all the other Gunns and Barrs who ought to be fired forpolluting tweets..

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7 hours ago, KorbenDallas said:

UFO Sighting...

Korben,

According to Ruth Beebe Hill, Ayn Rand's neighbor and good friend when she lived in California (and after she became famous). Rand said she saw a UFO.

Maybe it was the same one, who knows?

:evil:  :) 

As to Soros, his butt-hurt must be awesome today with the swearing in of Kavanaugh.

Just thinking about that makes me believe in a rational world.

:)

Michael

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On 7/14/2018 at 12:21 PM, william.scherk said:

Soft, hard, in-between. Trump on Brexit ...

Lots of agitated headlines and scuffling over what it all means -- the Brexit 'deal' that May wants passed includes some items that are supposedly deal-breakers within her own majority in the House of Commons. The gist as I grasp it is that the present 'Customs Union' with the EU will continue for an undetermined period of time. This cut-out is also referred to as the 'Irish back-stop,' since Northern Ireland wants no new border controls where it meets the Irish Republic, which will be remaining as a full member of the EU.  In other words, a customs union will preserve the Irish Good Friday deal that negotiated an end to the armed 'troubles.'

Here is a UK person with his considered opinion.  This is from the newly-searchable Brighteon. Eat broccoli or not.

Edited by william.scherk
Added link to UK media squabbling
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On 2/21/2018 at 6:57 PM, Jon Letendre said:

President Trump indicates Little Shit’s imminent kiddie-related legal problems with name switch from “Little Adam Schiff” to “Liddle’ Adam Schiff”...

 

Finally, Liddle’ Adam Schiff, the leakin’ monster of no control, is now blaming the Obama Administration for Russian meddling in the 2016 Election. He is finally right about something. Obama was President, knew of the threat, and did nothing. Thank you Adam!

I used “Little Shit” as far back as February.

I think President Trump should pay me some kind of fee.

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Corsi, Corsi, Corsi ...

On 9/5/2018 at 2:45 PM, william.scherk said:

Anyway, Corsi, Corsi, Corsi. What is the misinformation  corps doing with him today?  We've already ran Will Sommer out of town, the foul thing, but here he is at most a conduit (plug Opera browser which built-in VPN can't remember if you had used up your free NYT offerings yet).

IF true, if the beasts of information war are allowing a fact to stand on its own here, why? What could they possibly want to know that Corsi could conceivably know -- about what where who why and when?  I come up blank so far on details beyond the smudginess of the fake grey news lady claims.

Conceivably, Mueller is in the beginnings of investigating  Q.

And then there was One:

Quote

RELATED:
i16.jpg Randall Eliason / Sidebars:
Judge in Mueller Case Upholds Legal Theory that Makes Collusion a Crime  —  Is collusion a crime?  Since the beginning of special counsel Robert Mueller's investigation, allegations of “collusion” have dominated the debate.  President Trump regularly claims there was “no collusion” …
i43.jpg Chad Day / Associated Press:
Associate of Roger Stone in plea talks with Mueller  —  JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. (AP) — A conservative writer and associate of Trump confidant Roger Stone said Friday that he is in plea talks with special counsel Robert Mueller's team.  —  Jerome Corsi told The Associated Press he has been negotiating …

 

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13 hours ago, william.scherk said:

Corsi, Corsi, Corsi ...

William,

Using my cognitive before normative sequence, I notice the anti-Trumpers (including the left) are working like crazy to connect Corsi to President Trump. They desperately need a scapegoat. But there's no Trump connection other than Corsi supports Trump and he knows Roger Stone. (Most likely at Infowars only since they are both active there, but don't quote me on that. I'm pretty sure of that, but not totally sure.)

The anti-Trumpers have made an incorrect evaluation of Corsi and are now seeking something, anything, that will support their feelings against Corsi. Nothing has worked up to now, so Mueller bullied Corsi into taking a plea on a technicality (often called a perjury trap). And what is the perception by Trump supporters and the general public? Mueller is the type of person who bullies an old man when he doesn't like the facts he finds. What professionalism...

But the worst part is the correct identification part. Is Mueller going after a player in the Trump investigation? According to correct identification, he is not. He's merely bullying an old man who many consider a fruitcake. (I don't think that, but that's beside the matter.) Corsi is a Trump supporter just like anyone who voted for Trump, and he has an opinion. Whoop-de-do. Corsi is not a Trump insider, not a Russian insider, etc.

People are noticing, even some anti-Trumpers. And lots of people lower down the Totem Pole, those who are not famous agenda promoters, are noticing--all sides.

Tsk tsk tsk...

Michael

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Of accusations, Gitmo, and Liz Crokin ...

On 9/29/2018 at 1:19 PM, william.scherk said:

Gitmo, Liz Crokin, Them, and You ... (emphases added)  the compleat Kookburger recipe.

On 2/22/2018 at 10:58 PM, Jon Letendre said:

Here is the point: if they are fooled (and let’s hope they will be!) then you and I certainly will be, also.

That said, what if Mueller was flipped many years ago? What if he has been on the Trump team the whole time? His mandate is wide-open, so what if he is behind many of the 13,000+ Sealed indictments around the country? What if his investigation has always been another trap Justice has used to get perps talking “openly, safely, with friends, on the same mission to take down Trump.” Then he feeds it to Sessions, and vice-versa, and they are both building cases. He hasn’t done much to harm Trump - that gets a check mark. He needs to be trusted by the precious,  brainwashed Democrats who still have faith in their leaders - check. I know Liz Crokin came up with this many months ago. I’ve considered, rejected, and reconsidered several times now. Doesn’t matter, won’t change anything. If he is still on the wrong side, he will go to Gitmo with so many others.

"We'll always have Gitmo ..."

Looks like wild accusations-for-clicks has led to a cul-de-sac for Crokin:

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Wild accusations of pedophile activity are par for the course with Liz Crokin.  As I may have noted elsewhere, she has convinced herself that the California wildfires were set to destroy evidence of ... wait for it ... pedophile activity.

Townhall Columnist Liz Crokin: Hollywood Celebrities Set California’s Wildfires To Cover Up Their Pedophilia

Quote

“This man [actor Rainn Wilson], I started doing some research on him. Guess what? He’s involved with a charity in Haiti. Any celebrity that is involved with ‘work’ in Haiti, you had better believe they’re involved in child sex trafficking, okay? So the guy who openly talks about cannibalism, eating babies, and raping babies and who just happens to be involved in a charity that allegedly helps kids in Haiti; now Rainn, ironically—not ironically—guess what?

“His house is one of the houses that was burned down the other day. Guess what? A lot of people who are up to their eyeballs in child sex trafficking have had their homes burn down. Burning evidence much? I don’t think it’s a coincidence. The more people they kill, the better because it’s more sacrifice to Moloch.” – Townhall columnist Liz Crokin, whose YouTube channel has millions of views.

Can one ever go too far with accusations, and then find oneself bereft of a platform to spew more of the bullshit?

This was one of Liz's last tweets:

Meanwhile, the QAnon 'community' is lit ...

Edited by william.scherk
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If you don't share information, can it be said to exist?

On 11/24/2018 at 1:06 AM, Michael Stuart Kelly said:
On 11/23/2018 at 11:01 AM, william.scherk said:

Corsi, Corsi, Corsi ...

Using my cognitive before normative sequence, I notice the anti-Trumpers (including the left) are working like crazy to connect Corsi to President Trump. They desperately need a scapegoat. But there's no Trump connection other than Corsi supports Trump and he knows Roger Stone. (Most likely at Infowars only since they are both active there, but don't quote me on that. I'm pretty sure of that, but not totally sure.)

 

 

Quote

The anti-Trumpers have made an incorrect evaluation of Corsi and are now seeking something, anything, that will support their feelings against Corsi. Nothing has worked up to now, so Mueller bullied Corsi into taking a plea on a technicality (often called a perjury trap). And what is the perception by Trump supporters and the general public? Mueller is the type of person who bullies an old man when he doesn't like the facts he finds. What professionalism...

I highlighted Chuck Ross's article at the Daily Caller.

On 11/23/2018 at 11:01 AM, william.scherk said:

See the timeline, especially:

Quote

The Players

  • Roger Stone: A longtime associate of President Donald Trump’s, who left the campaign in August 2015. He is reported to be a target of the special counsel’s investigation.
  • Randy Credico: A New York-based comedian and radio host whom Stone claims was his source of information about WikiLeaks’ plans to release information damaging to the Clinton campaign.
  • Robert Mueller: A former FBI director who was appointed special counsel on May 17, 2017, to oversee the investigation into possible Russian collusion during the 2016 election.
  • Jerome Corsi: A right-wing author who worked with Stone during the campaign. He said Nov. 12 he was informed by Mueller’s team that he will be indicted for perjury.
  • Margaret Ratner Kunstler: A left-wing attorney who has represented WikiLeaks. She is close friends with Credico.

The Timeline

March 21, 2016

Hackers infiltrate the Gmail account of Clinton campaign chairman John Podesta.

June 12, 2016

Julian Assange reveals his organization, WikiLeaks, is planning to release information about Hillary Clinton.

“We have upcoming leaks in relation to Hillary Clinton … We have emails pending publication,” Assange told ITV.

July 22, 2016
WikiLeaks releases nearly 20,000 emails stolen from the DNC.

July 25, 2016

An associate of Stone’s forwards him an email from Fox News reporter James Rosen who wrote: “Am told Wikileaks will be doing a massive dump of HRC emails relating to the CF in September.”

Stone says he interpreted “CF” as a reference to the Clinton Foundation.

July 29, 2016

Assange tells CNN’s Anderson Cooper “we have more material related to the Hillary Clinton campaign.”

Julian-Assange.jpg

WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange, Ecuadorian Embassy May 2017. REUTERS/Peter Nicholls

August 2016

Jerome Corsi begins telling associates his theory that WikiLeaks was planning to publish Podesta’s emails. Corsi told The Daily Caller News Foundation on Nov. 13, several days after he testified to Mueller’s grand jury, he also told Stone his theory. Stone vehemently denies Corsi’s claim.

Aug. 8, 2016

Stone says at a speech in front of a group of Republicans in Florida he had communicated with Assange.

“I actually have communicated with Assange. I believe the next tranche of his documents pertain to the Clinton Foundation but there’s no telling what the October surprise may be,” he says.

Stone has since downplayed those remarks, saying he was embellishing, and his comment reflects the inaccurate tip he received via the Rosen email he thought referred to the Clinton Foundation.

Aug. 9, 2016

“Stone is a bullshitter,” WikiLeaks says in a private Twitter message. The group would repeatedly deny having any contact with Stone.

Aug. 14, 2016

Stone and a self-described hacker going by the pseudonym Guccifer 2.0 communicate privately on Twitter.

Stone called the brief exchange innocuous, noting there is no discussion of Russians, hacks or Podesta’s emails.

Aug. 19, 2016

Credico texts Stone, “I’m going to have Julian Assange on my show next Thursday.”

“Kunstler wife is his lawyer or at least one of them.”

Credico was seemingly referring to Margaret Ratner Kunstler, who has been identified as a lawyer for WikiLeaks. (RELATED: Bombshell Text Messages Back Up Roger Stone’s Claims About WikiLeaks Back Channel)

Aug. 21, 2016

Stone posts a tweet that would later thrust him into the center of the Russia probe.

“Trust me, it will soon [be] the Podesta’s time in the barrel,” Stone writes.

Podesta and other Stone critics have pointed to the tweet as evidence that Stone had prior knowledge of WikiLeaks’ release of Podesta’s emails two months later.

Stone said rather than referring to forthcoming WikiLeaks emails, he was referring to a conversation he had with Corsi, who had researched the business activities of John and his brother, Tony Podesta.

Stone noted his tweet referred to “the Podesta’s,” which he meant to be plural, rather than solely to John Podesta.

Aug. 27, 2016

Credico texts Stone: “Julian Assange has kryptonite on Hillary.”

Aug. 31, 2016

Corsi provides a nine-page memo to Stone regarding the Podesta brothers and the Podesta Group’s various lobbying relationships.

Sept. 18, 2016

Credico asks Stone not to identify him as his link to Assange.

“Just remember do not name me as your connection to Assange you had one before that you referred to,” he writes.

Sept. 25, 2016

“I’m flying to London after show,” writes Credico to Stone. “Will be seeing the man on Tuesday actually on Wednesday night.”

Credico traveled to London, but says he did not meet with Assange.

Sept. 29, 2016

Credico again asks Stone not to link him publicly to WikiLeaks.

“You are not going to drag my name into this are you,” Credico wrote.

“No,” Stone replied.

“Leave my name out Im [sic] going to be all screwed up today.”

Sept. 30, 2016

Credico posts a photo of himself on Facebook from outside the Ecuadorean embassy in London.

“Outside the ecuador Embassy London take a look at the dude with a white shirt… I have a feeling that in the next couple days some very damaging material will be coming out from the gentleman inside that embassy,” he writes.

Screen-Shot-2018-11-18-at-10.09.51-PM.jp

Randy Credico Facebook post

Oct. 1, 2016 (Saturday)

"(B)ig news Wednesday,” Credico writes to Stone, adding: “Now pretend u don’t know me.”

“Hillary’s campaign will die this week,” he texts later that day.

Oct. 2, 2016 (Sunday)

“Wednesday @HillaryClinton is done,” Stone writes on Twitter.

WikiLeaks cancels a press conference with Assange, citing security concerns.

Stone contacts Credico through a text message, asking: “Did Assange back off?”

Corsi also tweets in response to Assange’s canceled press conference.

“If Assange has the goods on Hillary, he ought just to drop the goods,” Corsi writes on Twitter. “Otherwise, he’s going to make a fool of himself.”

Oct. 3, 2016 (Monday)

Credico responds to Stone the next morning, writing: “I can’t tall [sic] about it.”

“I think its on for tomorrow.”

Stone tweets: “I have total confidence that @wikileaks and my hero Julian Assange will educate the American people soon. #LockHerUp.”

Credico writes to Stone that information would be released on Tuesday.

“There is so much stuff out there,” he texted, adding, that “there will be an announcement but not on the balcony.”

Credico also tells Stone: “I’m best friends with [Assange’s] lawyer and leave it at that and leave it alone.”

WASHINGTON, DC - JUNE 21: Special counsel Robert Mueller (L) arrives at the U.S. Capitol for closed meeting with members of the Senate Judiciary Committee June 21, 2017 in Washington, DC. The committee meets with Mueller to discuss the firing of former FBI Director James Comey. (Photo by Alex Wong/Getty Images)

Special counsel Robert Mueller (L) arrives at the U.S. Capitol for
closed meeting with members of the Senate Judiciary Committee June 21, 2017 in Washington, DC.
(Photo by Alex Wong/Getty Images)

Oct. 4, 2016 (Tuesday)

Assange holds a press conference and announces WikiLeaks will release documents prior to the election. He says the pending release is not targeted at Hillary Clinton and documents will be leaked beginning that week.

Stone exchanges emails with Bannon regarding Assange’s press conference.

“What was that this morning???” Bannon writes to Stone.

“Fear. Serious security concern. He thinks they are going to kill him and the London police are standing down,” Stone responds.

“However — a load every week going forward,” he added, repeating Assange’s announcement. (RELATED: Jerome Corsi Reveals Why He Is In Mueller’s Crosshairs)

Numerous Trump supporters, including Corsi, express frustration at the press conference.

“So Assange made a fool of Himself,” Corsi tweets. “Had zero, or he would have released it. Will take grassroots on Internet to get truth out & beat Hillary.”

Oct. 5, 2016 (Wednesday)

Stone continues teasing the WikiLeaks release.

“Libs thinking Assange will stand down are wishful thinking. Payload coming #Lockthemup,” he tweeted.

Oct. 6, 2016 (Thursday)

“Julian Assange will deliver a devastating expose on Hillary at a time of his choosing. I stand by my prediction,” Stone tweets.

Oct. 7, 2016 (Friday)

WikiLeaks releases the first batch of stolen Podesta emails.

Oct. 11, 2016

Podesta accuses Stone of having prior knowledge of the WikiLeaks release.

Oct. 12, 2016

Stone disputes Podesta’s comments and for the first time says he had a back channel to Assange.

“I do have a back-channel communication with Assange, because we have a good mutual friend,” Stone told CBS’s affiliate in Miami. “That friend travels back and forth from the United States to London and we talk. I had dinner with him last Monday.”

May 17, 2017

Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein appoints Robert Mueller as special counsel.

Sept. 26, 2017

Stone appears before the House Intelligence Committee. He refuses to reveal the identity of his WikiLeaks back channel.

Nov. 13, 2017

Stone privately identifies Credico to the Intelligence Committee.

Nov. 29, 2017

Credico is identified as the person Stone claims was his connection to WikiLeaks.

Dec. 13, 2017

Credico asserts his Fifth Amendment rights prior to an interview scheduled with the House Intelligence Committee.

Feb. 13, 2018

Credico says he provided “disinformation” to Michael Isikoff and David Corn, the authors of “Russian Roulette,” a book about the collusion investigation.

“I gave them a lot of disinformation, so when his book comes out, he’s going to like put stuff in there that’s all lies,” Credico says in an interview with H. A. Goodman.

“I put together phony emails, gave it to them. I did all this stuff, and he’s going to put it in his book. I can’t wait.”

Credico claimed that he texted Isikoff to say, “I’m glad that I bamboozled you.”

“I’m just making things up for the guy, and he’s just writing it down.”

Isikoff and Corn were the only two reporters to publish allegations from the infamous Steele dossier prior to the 2016 election. Both met with Steele and Fusion GPS, the firm that commissioned the dossier.

March 21, 2018

In his first national TV interview, Credico denies being a source for Stone.

“I have no idea, some of the things I may have said to him, but certainly did not pass any information from Julian Assange to Roger Stone,” he told MSNBC’s Ari Melber.

April 13, 2018

In an interview with Isikoff, Credico reiterates his denials that he was Stone’s link to WikiLeaks. He also denies he knew attorneys who worked for Assange, undercutting his claims in his text messages with Stone.

“He had another version — that I was protecting a lawyer friend of mine of Assange,” Credico says of Stone.

“I don’t know any lawyers in this country that actually represent Assange. I know three of his lawyers. They all live in London. I met them last year when I met Assange for the very first time, face-to-face, which was on Sept. 13, 2017.”

July 13, 2018

Mueller indicts 12 officers with Russia’s military intelligence agency, the GRU, over the hacks and dissemination of DNC emails.

Aug. 8, 2018

Mueller subpoenas Credico.

Sept. 7, 2018

Credico testifies to Mueller’s grand jury. He says in an interview with CNN after his appearance that his testimony matched his public denials that he was Stone’s back channel to WikiLeaks.

Oct. 19, 2018

David Lugo, a filmmaker who has worked with Stone and Credico, testifies to the Mueller grand jury that Credico told him on May 12, 2017, that he was a conduit between WikiLeaks and Stone.

Nov. 2, 2018

An attorney who has worked for Stone, Tyler Nixon, testified he was at a dinner in mid-November 2017 where Credico seemingly acknowledged he was Stone’s link to WikiLeaks and Assange.

Nov. 9, 2018

Corsi testifies for the second time before Mueller’s grand jury. He claims days later that prosecutors had informed him he would be indicted for perjury.

While maintaining his innocence, Corsi told TheDCNF he began telling associates in August 2016 that he believed WikiLeaks had possession of Podesta’s emails. He claimed to have told Stone, who strongly denied Corsi’s recollection of events.

Corsi claims to not have had contact with WikiLeaks or Assange, and said he developed a theory on his own that WikiLeaks had Podesta’s emails.

It would be interesting to see some predictions here. If Corsi is actually pursuing a plea arrangement, it could very well be that he is on the hook for lying to the FBI.  The so-called "perjury trap" might have been avoided by telling the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.  In Corsi's case, I think he may have been irresponsible in his public utterances and claims, leading to contradictions and dissembling once he was interviewed by Mueller's team/agent.

One way to avoid a so-called perjury trap is to keep a log of your lies, and make sure you don't repeat one or more of them during an interview. Lying to the FBI is apparently a crime, as Michael Flynn discovered.

My prediction is that we will be surprised by Corsi's plea discussions result, should he wish to avoid a trial.

As Jon suggested, law and order, everything seems to be working as it should.  No cause for alarm or premature 'cognitive closure.'

Edited by william.scherk
De-bolded; de-coded a [B] in a Credico entry on Chuck's timeline; cued Infowars to Stone appearance
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Korben wrote when he started this thread: “Conspiracy theories might pose an intellectual challenge but they are divorced from reality, though using elements of reality to create them.  A conspiracy theory is a lie, a lie is any attempt at faking reality. Those people who create them are liars, and many fit into Rand's category of the Witch Doctor.”

And William Scherk just wrote, “One way to avoid a so-called perjury trap is to keep a log of your lies, and make sure you don't repeat one or more of them during an interview. Lying to the FBI is apparently a crime, as Michael Flynn discovered.”

Well said Shrek! Is “The Mueller Investigation” President Trump’s “Watergate?” It contains little water and no flood gate . . . . though it’s “spigot” occasionally drips new evidence. Maybe it’s time to call in a real plumber or call it quits. My advice to all those foolish political operatives who supported President Trump and then lied about what they did to gain his support and further their own ends is: “Don’t choke and lie to the FBI, you dummies! Your mama’s taught you better. You were decent guys who got carried away in the heat of the moment.”  Being a political hothead can get you carried away.

Did any of Hillary Clinton’s political operatives get carried away, lie to the American people or the FBI? Probably, but despicable FBI COO James Comey (or is it Comedy?) was in charge and by golly he could feel in his bones that Old Hickory Clinton was going to be the next President.  So he had to go soft on Her and her supporters. I mean she was going to be Princess President! He had to cut her and her supporters (the Clinton Gang) some slack.  He had to bend and mold the investigation, didn’t he?

No he didn’t. The head of the FBI is supposed to be above reproach and though he may not divulge all the facts some might consider that a “sin of omission”. He is supposed to always tell the truth. The spirit of integrity and philosophy of scientific methodology begun by J. Edgar Hoover is rolling over in its grave. Comey said as much in language that admitted NO illegality. But I hope history records his failures. What if he had not come out with the edited truth of the Clinton failures? Would Hillary Clinton have been elected? Maybe or maybe not.  It might take years for a consensus to form around that “truth.” I think the 2016 election qualifies as a true conspiracy. But what will the election in 2020 be like?

Protect yourself at all times. Make this a good, clean fight. Don’t hit below the belt. In the event of a knock-down, you will be directed to go to a neutral corner. OK. Touch gloves. Ding! It’s already started. Who are the democratic challengers going to be? Any ideas?

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8 hours ago, william.scherk said:

Lying to the FBI is apparently a crime, as Michael Flynn discovered.

William,

No it isn't, as Hillary Clinton and her entire gaggle of close insiders discovered.

All you need is immunity before the interview. Then you can lie your ass off and even destroy evidence, as they did.

Michael

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On 9/30/2018 at 4:21 PM, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

Here is a very good example of what I am talking about.

The worst thing that happened in the 20th century, the worst by far and any measure, is not taught.

It's a blank.

I remember trying to research this back in college when I first heard of it. Incidentally, I heard of it from Ayn Rand.

There was no Internet back then. And for a music major (I majored in music composition and trombone), there was no summary or layman's language version I could find without doing a hell of a lot of digging. So I merely took Rand's word for it. I skimmed some of the Solzhenitsyn stuff, but I wasn't ready for it because my knowledge of world history had only been informed by public education at the time.

My generation was probably the first where real indoctrination was taking hold and the fact that no one--no one at all--in my circles of relationships talked about this stuff is proof the indoctrination was already underway. People didn't talk about it because they simply didn't know about it.

btw - This video is not just on YouTube. It hit Real Clear Politics Video: Jordan Peterson On Soviet Horrors, The Gulag Archipelago: "This Is Not Widespread Knowledge"

Michael

Michael, your statement is so sweeping that I am breathless. I am of your generation and also in university when , Gulag Archipelago, and before that, One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich, hit our fuzzy ideas of Soviet Russia like a bomb  and shattered them forever.I can remember no indoctrination that prevented me from understanding the evil laid bare.  As many other evils  were, in those woeful times.

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4 hours ago, caroljane said:
On 9/30/2018 at 12:21 PM, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

btw - This video is not just on YouTube. It hit Real Clear Politics Video: Jordan Peterson On Soviet Horrors, The Gulag Archipelago: "This Is Not Widespread Knowledge"

Michael

Michael, your statement is so sweeping that I am breathless. I am of your generation and also in university when , Gulag Archipelago, and before that, One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich, hit our fuzzy ideas of Soviet Russia like a bomb  and shattered them forever.I can remember no indoctrination that prevented me from understanding the evil laid bare.  As many other evils  were, in those woeful times.

What was kept hidden from most soviet citizens was revealed by Solzhenitsyn in the samizdat era. As it was still happening.

Canada's huge proportion of Ukrainian-descended peoples meant that crimes against humanity such as the great famine in Ukraine that were covered up, explained away, denied, obfuscated were personal historical memories. My stepmother's mother was Ukrainian and had personal memories of famine in her extended family.

The charitable point taken from 'this is not widespread knowledge' is that in many aspects one can stress, you'd be right -- the process of actually uncovering, of objectively and painstakingly documenting crimes that we acknowledge today was protracted in each case. There were tragically-wrong whitewashes by soviet-enraptured writers, intellectual and rabble-rouser alike, all along the way. What we know today of the crimes of the famine and the great slave camps were not reported contemporaneously as they are today with more perfect hindsight.

So, the gulag archipelago would necessarily be brought fully into the sunlight by brave soviet-bloc people, not spectators over here.

So today in Canada we  have these monumental efforts to educate, the Holocaust museum, the genocide memorials, the human rights museum complex in Winnipeg. It's part of our historical development to have made amends for our own complicity in abuses and complex horrors 'over there' as well as 'here.' Is it 'forgotten' or not part of the public discourse, so to speak? There we can disagree, sharply. When a significant number of Canadians are of a family line of escapees from horrors abroad, we can disagree while keeping comity.  Did we 'take' refugees from the soviet bloc or other punishing shithole? Oh yeah, and so did America the Great.

If the video and this discussion gets folks to pick up Solzhenitsyn's masterpiece, great. We don't talk about the full horror and western-bloc complicities enough, perhaps, maybe because we each don't feel as informed as we could be. So, let's make sure we cut Michael some slack for thinking about a Plot to Deny and cover-up soviet horrors.  There was (even if not in the same Them configuration as you and I arrange things on our mental timelines of horror, Carol).  One extra aspect of horror is that the Soviet denial-culture industry has been resurrected in re Holodomor, to the particular disgust of Ukrainian-Canadians.  The deliberate aspect is again being denied and repressed as 'incorrect' and libelous of the Motherland.

Anyway, I am watching for Jordan Peterson's guidance on pertinent current events.  For example,

Yesterday in Ukraine, the Russian state attacked Ukrainian military vessels that tried to pass through an illegal blockade of the Azov Sea. Tomorrow the Ukrainian Rada (parliament) will vote on war measures, a declaration of martial law, and likely impose a military emergency. Will anyone but  EU get riled?  Russia has at one point blamed America for a provocation.

I'll check the videos  for comment from the President first, when I check the world pulse tomorrow.  Who is going to be zooming who, who is going to be complicit in crime and abuse of borders?

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Billy and Carol are just being small.

They both know well that leading leftist intellectuals of the time were lying about mass starvation murder in the USSR, mainly against Ukrainians. They denied the crime was happening, over and over, in the the New York Times and in hundreds of papers around the world. It is all well documented, I can’t recall the prick’s name right now, NYT writer, he systematically lied, he wasn’t confused, he knew the truth.

Now, could and would anyone have done anything about Stalin mass starvation murdering millions of Ukrainians? Probably not, no. Probably nothing would have been done by anyone, even if those lying leftist pricks has chosen to tell the truth.

But what to say, now?

Lefties are almost all pricks. That’s why they chose a pricky politics, leftism, they’re pricks. So they lie and they never own up to their errors, and they don’t own up to their previous generation’s errors and crimes, and more - they act like they don’t even know what you mean when you point out those errors, it puts the cherry on top of their embraced psychosis. They’re pricks. Small ones.

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Duranty, yes, that was one. Then as now, what’s in the NYT is picked up by everyone, so it was everywhere.

And the leftie gramps and Grammies fell for the lies * and laughed and snickered, like Billy and Carol love to do today, while heinous crimes continued right under their noses.

*Let us never forget that the truth was somewhat understood and there were people trying to make the world aware of the truth.

What were the leftie pricks doing at the same time?

Everything they could to keep everyone convinced that believing wild stories is strictly for crazies.

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15 hours ago, caroljane said:

Michael, your statement is so sweeping that I am breathless. I am of your generation and also in university when , Gulag Archipelago, and before that, One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich, hit our fuzzy ideas of Soviet Russia like a bomb  and shattered them forever.I can remember no indoctrination that prevented me from understanding the evil laid bare.  As many other evils  were, in those woeful times.

Uh huh. And you learned that next time, we'll do just the right amount of it, correct? It'll work this time? The right people in charge, and the right mix of controls, regulations and punishments will succeed?

J

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Corsi, Corsier, Corsiest ... with a Q.

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15 hours ago, william.scherk said:

What was kept hidden from most soviet citizens was revealed by Solzhenitsyn in the samizdat era. As it was still happening.

Canada's huge proportion of Ukrainian-descended peoples meant that crimes against humanity such as the great famine in Ukraine that were covered up, explained away, denied, obfuscated were personal historical memories. My stepmother's mother was Ukrainian and had personal memories of famine in her extended family.

 

Yeah, nobody knew! Dint see nuffin!

"You can’t make an omelet without breaking eggs!" They were just trying to make a big omelet to feed everyone! Wasn't that sweet!

It was moral and virtuous, and the intentions were good, so let's try it again. This time, instead of punishing the wrong people, we'll brutalize the right people, like the Koch brothers, for instance. They deserve it, after what they done to make Carol mad and envious and hateful! Crack those eggs!

J

 

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2 hours ago, william.scherk said:

Corsi, Corsier, Corsiest...

William,

How about this? (From CNN of all places)

Roger Stone associate says he won't agree to plea deal

Quote

An associate of Roger Stone said Monday he is refusing to sign a plea deal offered by special counsel Robert Mueller.

. . .

"They can put me in prison the rest of my life. I am not going to sign a lie," Corsi told CNN in a phone call.

Wouldn't it be something if a man like Corsi pulled the entire rug out from underneath Mueller's feet based on integrity?

I can see it happening. Let Mueller try to prove his case to a jury.

What then of the mockers?

Because we all know Corsi is stupid and a crank and Mueller is smart and cunning, right?

:evil:  :) 

Michael

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