Does Hillary have a health problem?


KorbenDallas

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A couple videos from another thread:

11 hours ago, Mikee said:

Hillary-Clinton-has-seizure-when-talking

Thanks ZeroHedge

 

8 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

Brain freeze. This hit Drudge:

Not humor, but it will be if she gets elected.

The joke will be on us.

:)

Michael

 

 

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Seems there's something going on, below is a video of what people are calling her "handler", and an image below it.  There was a commotion in the crowd, he steps on stage and comforts her, "You're okay [pats her shoulder].  Keep talking, you can handle it, we're not going anywhere."  He orders the stage, Hillary is nervous, then steps behind her and consoles her again, "Keep talking ma'am/now, keep talking."  Not saying this is anything, she could have just freaked out:

And then there's this recent image, a diazepam device he carries with him:

9cSYuQ.jpg

 

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1 hour ago, KorbenDallas said:

a diazepam device he carries with him:

He has a name, even if his 007 stunner-pen-spyglass does not. These tweets below are from a dude on some newspaper.  And hilarious, depending on your point of view and Infowars index. You have to read the two full bizarre threads and appreciate the consternation of rumour meeting fact to savour the full effect.

 

Edited by william.scherk
Super Secret Relaxation Probe
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47 minutes ago, william.scherk said:

He has a name, even if his 007 stunner-pen does not. These tweets are from a dude on some newspaper.  And hilarious, depending on your point of view and Infowars index. 

Infowars index is definitely skeptical.  I'm wondering why people are saying the diazepam device has to be for Hillary, it could be for someone else.

The head bobble...

Hillary-Clinton-has-seizure-when-talking

... looks to be just a bitch to me.  For an action like this, I would classify it as what I call a confusion fallacy.  A confusion fallacy is like that of war, confuse the enemy to attempt to gain control over them.  Hillary does the action and gains control.  And apparently it worked for some who thought this was a seizure.

Still wondering why she has such a problem with stairs:

 

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Here's a more credible-sounding article, from Brietbart, "Law Enforcement Officials, Medical Professionals: There's Something Seriously Wrong With Hillary Clinton's Health."
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/01/06/law-enforcement-officials-medical-professionals-theres-something-seriously-wrong-hillary-clintons-health/

 

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What is the big deal?  President Kennedy had Addison's disease  and FDR was paralyzed and could not walk.  In neither case did that prevent them from functioning in office.

Having perfect health is NOT  a legal requirement to hold the office. 

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41 minutes ago, BaalChatzaf said:

Having perfect health is NOT  a legal requirement to hold the office.

Bob,

It might result in fewer votes, though.

But who talked about "perfect health"? Only you.

The worry is debilitating health.

And that is an obstacle, an existential obstacle, to holding office, or simply holding a conversation.

Michael

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I think the issue could be put to bed if Mrs Clinton got her doctor to give her a note, as Mr Trump did.  If I remember correctly, Mr Trump has the best health of anyone who ever ran for president, according to his doctor, and all his test results are positive.  If I remember correctly, the Clinton camp has released some info telling us what prescription medication she takes on a regular basis.  Somebody should look these things up.

 

If either candidate is hiding a 'debilitating' condition then this would be a terrible scandal, I figure.  But what has been dredged from the slough of speculation this round is pretty  feeble.  Is Mr Trump insane or mentally disordered?  Yikes.  Is Mrs Clinton afflicted with seizures?  Oh no. 

I trust Objectivish-types to argue over epistemology, to try to get facts nailed down, to not be easy marks for misinformation.  So, is it a fact that Mr Trump has a narcissistic personality?  Is it a fact that Mrs Clinton has a seizure disorder?  Is it a fact that Mrs Clinton has piled on 103 pounds (as the National Enquirer told me yesterday)?

So, yeah. Objectivish folks are pretty good at sorting things into piles (or conceptual hierarchies).  I suggest a mental pile for Exciting Speculation and another one for Reasonable Questions, and other piles starting with Debunked, Unsupported and Peculiar.

For my jaded Canadian eyes, the kerfuffle-ish minor dramatics over She's Physically Unfit are close to rumour or gossip, with the epistemological heft of nursing-home fart..

She is old. He is old!  She takes pills to avoid blood clots. He doesn't  She likes the booze. He does not.  He doesn't like to read policy briefings. She does. She doesn't wet the bed. He does. She is not a fatty. He is.  He likes Hispanic Taco Bowls. She likes a cocktail. He uses hairspray, she doesn't.

There, now I have put things on a firmer epistemological footing in my mind, to the mental stability problems within the campaigns. This is a weird moment in politics, an exchange between Trump surrogate Michael Cohen, and a stunned Brianna Keilar. Sort of a meeting of two universes separated by a membrane:

Quote

“I was shocked at the length of the silence as she stumbled to think of an answer,” Cohen said. “And when she did come up with an answer, it was so generic it could have applied to anything.”

Keilar continued her broadcast for over an hour after her discussion with Cohen. During one of the commercial breaks, she sent Yahoo News a response to his review of the interview.

“Can you just embed the video in your story? My reaction is that people can watch and decide for themselves,” Keilar said.

In his conversation with Yahoo, Cohen also said he does not trust the polls Keilar referenced during the broadcast.

“I completely disagree with the polling information,” said Cohen.

He specifically pointed to Trump’s poor numbers in the African-American community as evidence that the polls may be off. Cohen, who has been working with Trump since 2006 and describes himself as fiercely loyal, has helped coordinate some of the candidate’s African-American outreach efforts and said his anecdotal experience contradicted the poll data.

“When they say that Donald Trump has a 1 percent favorability amongst the African-American community, I know from my own interactions that that number is absolutely and unequivocally inaccurate,” Cohen explained. “I speak on a weekly basis to more than 100 African-American Evangelical preachers who are all committed to ensuring Donald Trump becomes the next president of the United States.”

Cohen went on to say the over 100 African-Americans he has worked with during the campaign are all convinced Clinton would “pander” to their community with “no ability or intent to follow through.”

“These same individuals have all met with Mr. Trump and have engaged in significant dialogue about issues that effect their specific communities. Unanimously, these African-American Evangelical preachers all acknowledge that Donald Trump is colorblind when it comes to race and is only interested in ensuring that all Americans have the opportunity to thrive and achieve the American dream,” said Cohen.

Cohen also pointed to the crowds at Trump’s rallies as a sign polls may be off.

 

“I think Mr. Trump and Secretary Clinton are substantially closer than the polls indicate,” Cohen explained. “The proof is the massive 20-, 25- and 30,000-person rallies that he is attending on a multiple-time-per-week basis. In all honesty, Hilary Clinton can’t fill a Starbucks even if they offered free ventis.”

Muh Roads Crowds!

Edited by william.scherk
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The meme is growing, whether true or not. What's the meme?

Hillary has Parkinson's.

That's starting to appear in the news--and in uncomfortable mainstream places for Hillary supporters.

I don't know if it all started at Infowars, but Alex Jones has definitely been plugging doubts about her health for a long time, to the point Drudge finally jumped on board.So here is a current update on the issue from Joe Biggs at Infowars.

Apparently, someone in the mainstream is trying to claim it is sexist to cast doubts on Hillary's health. That is not how you fight a rumor of this kind. Just look at the response from Biggs--and this particular response to this particular charge won't stop with this one video.

That's just one incident where the repercussion will be a lot of ripples into the mainstream culture--and those ripples are carrying the meme that Hillary might have Parkinson's. Imagine a lot of incidents. The ripples will become a wave, then surfing-grade, then tidal if it catches on...

Of all the shots being taken at Hillary, this one feels like it is sticking where she doesn't want it to stick. The glue sticking it to her is fear of her not being able to function in a crisis based on videos of her losing control, falling, etc.

This is a real drip... drip... drip... campaign and it seems to be working. Let's see if it has legs to go the distance or peters out.

Michael

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And here we have Newt saying, on Politico, Nahhh... it's just junk science...

Newt rips 'junk medicine' worries about Clinton health

Whether Newt is sincere or doing it for a persuasion reason, his comment, as a close Trump insider, isolates Trump from the taint of the propaganda effort.

It's an old trick, but it works--even when such deniability is not on purpose (if this were the case, which I am not sure it is). :) 

Michael

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Opponents shouldn't worry too much at this stage, though.

The Clinton machine can still "fix" the search engines. That won't stop the mainstream coverage, but it can turn it into a brushfire if it works.

From Breitbart:

New York Times Tech Columnist Calls on Google to Hide Hillary Health Info
by Patrick Howley
21 Aug 2016
Breitbart

From the article:

Quote

New York Times tech columnist Farhad Manjoo is calling on Google to “fix” its search engine results to hide evidence of Hillary Clinton’s failing health.

“Go online and put down, ‘Hillary Clinton illness,’ and take a look at the videos yourself,” Rudy Giuliani recently said on Fox News, during an argument about how sick Clinton really is.

Manjoo of the Times called for Google to “fix” the problem of search results possibly hurting the Democratic nominee.

He did it in a tweet, but he still did it.

Dayaamm!

Michael

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2 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

That headline was from Politico's website, written by Rebecca Morin and Nick Gass. 

The main point the former mayor makes is that there are 'several signs of illness'  and that the "media" ignores these signs, and that you have to go 'to the internet' to find out the Truth.

I have watched Doktor Katrina Pierson on CNN, with two diagnoses. One was 'aphasia' -- Clinton was aphasic. Her other Dx was 'seizure disorder' non-specified.

So, it could be argued that Clinton Mystery Illness has been in Press.  The Trump campaign surrogates peddle this on the news nets.. Doktor Katrina is not alone.

-- the thing I bear in mind is that there are  epistemological questions that need answering.  One could be 'is there a difference between rumour and fact, between speculation and sound rational arguments?

Is it a fact that Mrs Clinton has a seizure disorder, an 'aphasia' or Parkinsons? Which of the many doktors who have 'examined' her should we take as truth-telling?

The media "fails to point out several signs of illness by her; all you gotta do is go online," Giuliani said, before being interrupted by host Shannon Bream, who pointed out that Clinton's campaign has said there is no factual evidence to support those claims.

 

On 8/20/2016 at 2:52 PM, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

The meme is growing, whether true or not. What's the meme?

Hillary has Parkinson's.

I agree. True or not, it is a 'meme' ... we do not always bother ourselves to seek truth when we remark upon a meme, especially in a campaign this dirty.

Quote

Of all the shots being taken at Hillary, this one feels like it is sticking where she doesn't want it to stick. The glue sticking it to her is fear of her not being able to function in a crisis based on videos of her losing control, falling, etc.

One can have a  'feeling' for dirt stickiness, I suppose. I think Mr Trump has been more careful than his surrogates in commenting on Mrs Clinton's seeming health. He hints. He suggests she is tired and old and needs a lot of naps and time off.  The contrast he hopes to make is between his potency and her level of energy. He doesn't himself make the ridiculous claim that Clinton has Parkinsons.

Of course, it could be argued that beyond the dirtiness of a campaign:  throwing stuff at the wall to see if it sticks is just politics. Doesn't matter the truth -- doesn't matter if we avoid questions answerable by rational inquiry.  

In other words, "Does Clinton Really Have Parkinsons?"  is besides the point in politics. 

In this case, those who make the claim are much like Doktor Katrina with her diagnosis. If we do not accept (from specious grounds) that Trump has a mental illness or disorder or Narcissism, then why would we accept a more speciously-grounded neurological claim?  If psychiatrists and psychologists have been warned by their august bodies against diagnosing Mr Trump -- if such diagnoses-at-a-distance are wholly unethical -- why would Doktor Katrina's Dxes be anything other than unprofessional?

Because she is a surrogate. She is not bound by any journalistic or medical ethics. 

Better for objective and rational inquiry that we put the Parkinsons meme where the Narcissist meme goes:  either in the slot Test or the slot It doesn't make sense.  

Ultimately this issue will be put to bed. In my opinion no credible evidence shows that Mrs Clinton has Parkinsons, or an aphasia. This "Clinton has Illness X" business is a pit of fudge.  It is unmoored from careful thinking.  It doesn't survive close examination.

I think it would be easier to just say Clinton Is Old.  Old, old, old. That is fact enough, I should think, without having to fudge and freak-out over a non-existent mystery.

A. It is discouraging that we draw uncritically from deeply flawed sources of information.
B.  good mental housekeeping allows for spurious sources and stupid claims

Those points can't be answered if we are in the grip of a partisan enthusiasm, or a cult of disbelief.  "Everyone except Giuliani and the Biggs fuckhead is lying to you. You cannot trust any organ of media. You cannot trust the polls. You cannot trust Google. You can only trust Infowars, Breitbart, FoxNews.  And even Fox polls are fixed."

That is the paranoid style.

 

Quote

Press-wise, this is no longer a story promoted by "conspiracy theory wackos."

It's news.

It is news that Giuliani urged his Fox viewers to ignore the 'other' media, the Clinton media as he put it.  On FoxNews, of course, we are entering the second week of Hillary Is Ill sweeps. So, consider the source (a Trump surrogate), consider the context (the polls, which the former mayor dismissed as as a function of bad media).

So, yeah, it is news. Giuliani is asking folks to 'go on the internet' for the truth. That in itself is sad/funny/peculiar.  It is a full-on dive into the fever swamps.

Rudy Giuliani Told People To Ignore The Media And Google Conspiracy Theories

“Go online and put down, ‘Hillary Clinton illness,’ and take a look at the videos yourself.”

2 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

The Clinton machine can still "fix" the search engines.

They sure can.  They can fix everything. It is all gonna be fixed -- the polls, Google, Yahoo, the looming November vote, the counting, the machines, everything.

And you know what else? Dr. Drew Pinsky is concerned. Clinton  leans against stools. She sleeps. She doesn't ride horses or play tennis or volleyball.

Only the Fittest Candidate ever can handle the job at the White House.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, william.scherk said:

True or not, it is a 'meme' ... we do not always bother ourselves to seek truth when we remark upon a meme, especially in a campaign this dirty.

William,

True.

Like "Donald Trump is a racist," or "Donald Trump hates babies."

:)

"Hillary has Parkinson's" is simply a meme fighting on that battlefield, except without the benefit of the mainstream media launching it and nurturing it up and down the media chain like it does with anti-Trump memes.

The "Hillary has Parkinson's" meme had to do it the hard way--starting at fringe sites, then going up the chain.

And it seems like it is going all the way up whether Hillary supporters like it or not.

:) 

Michael

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17 minutes ago, william.scherk said:

Of course, it could be argued that beyond the dirtiness of a campaign:  throwing stuff at the wall to see if it sticks is just politics. Doesn't matter the truth -- doesn't matter if we avoid questions answerable by rational inquiry.

William,

Heh.

Welcome to the world of how the mainstream media treats Trump's comments.

It's uncomfortable to believe grown adults do this, ain't it?

:)

Let Podesta and Brock keep trying to play their untrue meme game against Trump. But don't be surprised when Trump's peeps have the persuasion chops to respond in kind. It looks like they do since the "Hillary has Parkinson's" meme, or at least "Hillary is sick" meme seems to be sticking to her like a barnacle.

Michael

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27 minutes ago, william.scherk said:

The main point the former mayor makes is that there are 'several signs of illness'  and that the "media" ignores these signs, and that you have to go 'to the internet' to find out the Truth.

William,

Do you mean it bothers you that the mainstream media is losing its gatekeeping power due to losing its credibility?

Unfortunately, lost credibility is what always happens in the end when whores say, "I love you."

:evil:  :) 

Michael

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1 hour ago, william.scherk said:

-- the thing I bear in mind is that there are  epistemological questions that need answering.  One could be 'is there a difference between rumour and fact, between speculation and sound rational arguments?

 

1 hour ago, william.scherk said:

Ultimately this issue will be put to bed. In my opinion no credible evidence shows that Mrs Clinton has Parkinsons, or an aphasia. This "Clinton has Illness X" business is a pit of fudge.  It is unmoored from careful thinking.  It doesn't survive close examination.

I think it would be easier to just say Clinton Is Old.  Old, old, old. That is fact enough, I should think, without having to fudge and freak-out over a non-existent mystery.

A. It is discouraging that we draw uncritically from deeply flawed sources of information.
B.  good mental housekeeping allows for spurious sources and stupid claims

Logically, I think "Clinton might have Illness X" is best here.  I'm going to take this as an opportunity to copy and paste some text relevant to the conversation, it's from H.W.B. Joseph's book An Introduction to Logic (which, isn't an introductory text):

Judgements, or the propositions in which they are expressed, have for long been commonly distinguished according to Quality, Quantity, Relation, and Modality : according to Quality, into affirmative and negative : according to Quantity, into singular, universal, and particular : according to Relation, into categorical, hypothetical, and disjunctive: according to Modality, into assertoric, problematic, and apodeictic.

[...]

We come next to the distinctions of modality in the judgement. In respect of modality, categorical judgements are distinguished as assertoric, problematic, and apodeictic (or necessary); the first is sometimes opposed as pure to the other two as modal; but we shall find that if judgements are divided into pure and modal, the assertoric can be regarded as a form of modal judgement.  Propositions of the form ' X is Y ', ' X is not Y ' are assertoric--' the train is late ', ' the train is not late '; of the form ' X may be Y ', ' X may not be Y ', problematic--' the train may be late ', ' the train may not be late '; of the form ' X must be Y ', ' X cannot be Y ', apodeictic--' the train must be late ', ' the sun cannot be late '. The distinctions are also expressed by adverbs : X actually, possibly, necessarily is (or is not) Y.

In the sense of the word to which we have so often called attention, these distinctions are clearly logical: i.e. they belong to no special science, but recur in our thought about all kinds of subject. Whatever X and Y may be, we may find ourselves asserting that X is, that it may be, or that it must be Y. But their logical character is specially manifest in this, that they raise a fundamental question about the nature of the thinking activity, that of the difference between opinion and knowledge, just as the distinction of judgements according to quality raises the question of the difference between affirming and denying. And as the latter difference cannot be reduced to a difference in the predicate affirmed, by combining the negative with the predicate, so neither can the former. Still, we found a ground for the existence of the two 'qualities' of judgement in a certain fact about the being of things, that each is positively what it is by exclusion of all else, by difference. It is not so easy to find a ground for the existence of the 'modalities' of judgement in the being of things.

So I think "Clinton might have Illness X" is best here, the problematic modality.  The modalities can be really helpful to start to unravel Alex's conspiracy theories, and how he's doing it (with logic errors).

Edited by KorbenDallas
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I took Doktor Giuliani's advice and went on The Internet. I found this.

trumphealthletter.png

 

If the candidate has excellent cardio, then why is s/he on Statins and ASA? That is only for preventing thrombosis, stroke and circulatory infarctions, my inner Doktor tells me.

Oh noes -- what if Trump  has a terrifyingly high cholesterol count! If all the men in his family were ultimately stricken with heart disease or whacked suddenly by stroke! Is he not at risk, the big flabby Taco Bowl? Do we know why he never shows his body outside a suit jacket? He's hiding something.  He is in worse shape than Clinton, who has advanced cankles.  Do man-boobs cancel out cankles?

Does anyone know if he can't run anymore without gasping and sweating and turning orange, I'd ask. Does he go on the elliptical., the rowing machine, the bike?  Someone might say he wheezes in his sleep. On a McDonalds diet. Almost sort of stopped breathing in the night. Can't have sex normally. And, most tellingly,  doctor  X only released the above.  Fishy. Maybe rigged. 

 

Seriously, if Mrs Clinton makes it to November without NFL-level concussion injury, stroke, seizure, aphasia, gurney, Braille, rails, walkers, semi-fatal step-in bath skull smash -- any looming disaster short of a coffin -- and if Mr Trump makes it to November without getting similarly whacked from contention, then we can breathe.  We just have to hold our breath for 78 days or so. 

Which could shift attention back to fundamentals in the race, as it stands in reality looking ahead to The Big Fix. Lots and gobs and buckets and wallboards-full of challenges, none of which should be called insurmountable on August freaking 22, at least for Mr Trump's groovin' campaign.

I will ignore the X Disease Mystery Bog  issue until one of the candidates topples over in paroxysmic flailing and gets taken away with sirens screaming. This evasion might help me focus on other variables in play, where real challenges are for each campaign.  I will be watching the debates, granted Hillary is not on a ward, for signs of disorders neurological and characterological, but most especially disordered thinking, logic, mood and  fuses. 

Thanks, Korben, for the mental exercise. My own ability to spell out logic is crude.

Here is Doktor Trump today, finally and finely diagnosing the awful secret sickness at MSNBC's Morning Joe.  He's good. He's really smooth. But I still want a second opinion.

 

Edited by william.scherk
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I didn't finish listening to the video below yet, but Mike Cernovich was one of the entry points for this "Hillary is sick" meme (which is morphing into the Parkinson's meme) in the trading up the chain publicity model.

Trading up the chain is a Ryan Holiday media strategy based on the fact that journalists are overworked, there is an enormous amount of pressure for them to produce gobs of content and the Internet is drop-dead easy to use. It works like this.

A journalist often has people he trusts, so he will republish something from that source without checking it when the pressure ramps up on him. That source, more often than not, is another media source below his level--and he needs a good portion of his content to come from levels below him be able to come up with new stuff. After all, the public is already reading media outlets more popular than his.

So to take advantage of this situation, you plant an idea, true or absurd, in a blog or local site where there are no standards whatsoever for acceptance. But you goose it up to look respectable. Then, your media person will get in touch with other media outlets above that blog-level and say something like, "I love your reporting on XXXX. I found a person who has a new take on XXXX. See here (link). Why haven't you reported on this new idea yet? Did you miss it?" Many of those harried journalists will cite the blog, giving attribution or not, and voila! Their content quota for the day gets done quicker. The journalists above them will read what they wrote and, if it truly is something new or has a good spin (true or not), they will publish it. After all, they are using a source they trust. And so on up the chain until the idea gets to the mainstream.

Mike Cernovich lives waaaaaay down at the blog, podcast, YouTube, etc., level, but he puts out a crapload of stuff. He has been one of the most aggressive pursuers of the "Hillary is sick" meme, so I believe he was one of the original media entry points for the meme before it went up the chain.

I intend to finish this video, not because I believe everything in it. Since it is recent (from about a week ago) and Stefan Molyneux tends to be thorough (agree with him or not, he covers a lot of ground), it contains an overview of the media process from Cernovich's perspective ever since the beginning.

From what I've seen so far, it's going to be a wonderful media manipulation case study for those who know what to look for.

Michael

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3 hours ago, william.scherk said:

If the candidate has excellent cardio, then why is s/he on Statins and ASA? That is only for preventing thrombosis, stroke and circulatory infarctions, my inner Doktor tells me.

Do man-boobs cancel out cankles?

Does anyone know if he can't run anymore without gasping and sweating and turning orange, I'd ask. Does he go on the elliptical., the rowing machine, the bike?  Someone might say he wheezes in his sleep. On a McDonalds diet. Almost sort of stopped breathing in the night. Can't have sex normally. And, most tellingly,  doctor  X only released the above.  Fishy. Maybe rigged. 

 

Seriously, if Mrs Clinton makes it to November without NFL-level concussion injury, stroke, seizure, aphasia, gurney, Braille, rails, walkers, semi-fatal step-in bath skull smash -- any looming disaster short of a coffin -- and if Mr Trump makes it to November without getting similarly whacked from contention, then we can breathe.  We just have to hold our breath for 78 days or so.

__________________________________________________ 

Applause! Thats some good schtick!

Im thinking sex for a septuagenarian is anything but normal. Geriatric elections are really getting old.

Did you hear about the 70 yr old guy who goes to the Dr for a health check. The Dr comes in with a grave look saying, "theres bad news and really bad news. The bad news is you have cancer and will die in 6 months." "Geez thats bad", the patient says. "Whats the really bad news?" Dr says, "You have Alzheimers.disease." The patient says, "Thats a relief, I was afraid I had cancer."

  

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