Ari Armstrong on Trump

[BaalChatzaf]

Armstrong alleges that Trump is basically anti-capitalist. 

Please see:  http://ariarmstrong.com/2016/05/donald-trump-anti-capitalist/

and  http://ariarmstrong.com/2016/05/donald-trump-would-be-the-least-qualified-person-ever-to-be-elected-president/

If you are going to vote for Trump at least know what your are getting.  He has not the slightest grasp of the Constitution as a limiter of government power. (NB  of late the Constitution has been badly abused and misused by those in power).   He seems to treat Government as another kind of business organization.  It is no such thing.  He appears to regard the executive power of the office of president as his personal tool which he will wield as such if and when he achieves the office. 

I am voting for Trump because  I am pissed off on the U.S. government and I consider a pro-Trump vote as hostile (but legal) act.  It is my chance to strike back.

Since C'thulu is not eligible to be President  I am voting for the greater of two available evils...

[Marcus]

And the alternative is....Hillary? I'm not quite sure I'm seeing the point to your argument. You're sitting here wailing away at Trump but ignoring the elephant in the room (err donkey in the room). What do you hope to accomplish by that?

[jts]

The winner between Hillary and Donald will be the one who is best at telling believable lies. An election is a lying contest. Whoever wins the lying contest, the demented witch or the narcissist, USA will lose. And let me guess .... USA will get exactly the kind of government it deserves.

 

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

I don't think ortho-Objectivists have much to say about elections that shows coherence. They seem to latch onto this principle or that, then deduce the rest and sometimes end up in the weirdest places. That's why they've been all over the place election-wise over the years.

Some people in our subcommunity remind me of the premise of Ideal by Ayn Rand. So long as Kay Gonda was an ideal, a thought, each of the six ardent fans could live their lives contrary, but still mouth the ideal. When that ideal showed up at their doorstep in reality with a problem to solve in reality, they rejected and betrayed her.

I see the viciousness of the attacks against Trump in O-Land in this manner. These idealists release venom for Trump they never deploy for Clinton. I believe that's because he embodies principles they claim to support, and doesn't say them. So they have to use their brains when actually looking at reality without someone telling them what to believe.

Rush Limbaugh says Trump is not an ideological candidate. He does not see the world in terms of Democrats against Republicans, or Libertarians against Socialists or whatever. He sees different people on all ideological sides as individuals and treats them that way. And he sees issues not in terms of conquering the world like ideologies purport, but as specific problems to be solved so people can live well and in peace.

But Trump is not ideological only for political ideology. It's a mistake to think he has no ideology, no principles, whatsoever. Donald Trump is a powerhouse of rational productivity. You don't produce as much as he does with such high quality by betraying your principles.

Some people in our subcommunity just don't see the difference between speech and action except for one thing. Action scares the crap out of them. Thoughts divorced from action are low risk. After metaphorically gushing about Kay Gonda for years, she just arrived on their doorstep as a flesh-and-blood human, no longer a mental ideal and nothing more. She came with a big-ass problem, too, one in reality. And the only thing they can do is think, "Oh shit!" and lash out at her.

Michael

[turkeyfoot]

Clinton is a proven liar. Voters who cling to ideals of socialism, even if personal ethical behavior is important to themselves, will give her the benefit of the doubt since she alone is championing their more important social values. 

I remember how depressed I was in August 2012 after the SC ruled on ACA. A repeal has an inth of one percents chance. Im not sure what Trumps personal motivation is on that other than to say he will lead an effort. Hes says taxes will be lowered by half.

He says a lot of things. He spouts nonsense. Hes misinformed. He grates. Ok, hes not a Capitalist. Dont look there for Capitalism. Not good, bad bad, really bad.

Now that its been defined Mr Armstrong might tell us Capitalism has been the unknown, lightly practiced ideal since circa 1966. Im very glad to have been told that Capitalism isnt a choice this cycle. So Fugget about it. 

Nope. The choice is between a contemptible liar and Mr give him a chance Trump and Mr never had a chance Johnson.

Leave Capitalism for people who cant have what they want. 

 

  

 

 

 

 

 

[BaalChatzaf]

13 hours ago, Marcus said:

And the alternative is....Hillary? I'm not quite sure I'm seeing the point to your argument. You're sitting here wailing away at Trump but ignoring the elephant in the room (err donkey in the room). What do you hope to accomplish by that?

If Trump wins  he will create an upset in the political alignment which has not been seen since the election of Lincoln.  He will be a Problem.  My aim is to inflict a Problem on the government.  Electing Trump is a means to my end. 

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

4 hours ago, turkeyfoot said:

He grates. Ok, hes not a Capitalist. Dont look there for Capitalism. Not good, bad bad, really bad.

Geoff,

Here's where the ideological people get it wrong. Trump doesn't talk about capitalism. He does it.

Think of it this way. Clinton gets money from political pull. I don't know where Johnson got his money like Trump did. In other words, if people don't buy what Trump sells (or what Johnson sold before he went into politics), he doesn't get money. 

He didn't create the regulations in the highly regulated field of real estate development. Blaming him for that is blaming the victim, not the victimizer.

So at least on Trump's end of the trade, he is practicing capitalism.

Now, if you want to get into anarcho-capitalism, no taxes and the like and say anything that does not agree with that is not capitalism, that's a bit like Muslims who say Sufi Islam (or maybe ISIS) does not practice Islam or Christians who say Mormons do not practice Christianity and so on.

At some point the ideas have to connect to reality to get implemented.

Michael

 

[Marcus]

4 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

Geoff,

Here's where the ideological people get it wrong. Trump doesn't talk about capitalism. He does it.

Think of it this way. Clinton gets money from political pull. I don't know where Johnson got his money like Trump did. In other words, if people don't buy what Trump sells (or what Johnson sold before he went into politics), he doesn't get money. 

He didn't create the regulations in the highly regulated field of real estate development. Blaming him for that is blaming the victim, not the victimizer.

So at least on Trump's end of the trade, he is practicing capitalism.

Now, if you want to get into anarcho-capitalism, no taxes and the like and say anything that does not agree with that is not capitalism, that's a bit like Muslims who say Sufi Islam (or maybe ISIS) does not practice Islam or Christians who say Mormons do not practice Christianity and so on.

At some point the ideas have to connect to reality to get implemented.

Michael

 

^ He's an "idealogical purist" i.e.a head in the clouds, "pure capitalism in one election" guy.

Trump represents a small, incremental movement in the right direction, if ever so slightly. That's a win in my book. He at least says he plans to lower taxes and regulations significantly. Clinton represents a movement in the opposite direction. Voting for her is not a "rational" decision in any event.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

37 minutes ago, Marcus said:

Trump represents a small, incremental movement in the right direction, if ever so slightly.

Marcus,

I'm impressed. Creating a fortune worth ten billion dollars on the open market in exchange for actual products is a "small, incremental movement" and "ever so slightly."

Dayaamm!

What would a normal movement look like?

Michael

[Wolf DeVoon]

It seems silly to say it, but Mr Trump is just a guy. Says what he thinks. Likes America, likes meeting people, listens.

[jts]

19 minutes ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

Marcus,

I'm impressed. Creating a fortune worth ten billion dollars on the open market in exchange for actual products is a "small, incremental movement" and "ever so slightly."

Dayaamm!

What would a normal movement look like?

Michael

According to the Young Turks, Trump has about 10 B when he is bragging about how wealthy he is but when he is paying income tax he has less than 1 B, maybe much less. According to the YT, Trump went bankrupt 6 times, first time he lost his own money, after that he lost other people's money. The YT have a whole shitload of dirt on Trump.

 

[Wolf DeVoon]

6 minutes ago, jts said:

Trump went bankrupt 6 times

6 times out of 500 business enterprises is a good batting average

"Trump has never filed for personal bankruptcy" [Wikipedia]

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

12 hours ago, wolfdevoon said:

6 times out of 500 business enterprises is a good batting average

"Trump has never filed for personal bankruptcy" [Wikipedia]

Why, Wolf.

Don't you know that when Trump is successful, it's because he's ripping people off and not really doing business.

And when he fails, it's because he's ripping people off and not really doing business.

(I'm being satirical for the literal-minded.  )

I know you know, apparently from working with entrepreneurship, that all serial entrepreneurs have failures. But not all serial entrepreneurs have successes, much less as many successes as Trump. Those who try it know it's not simple or easy. 

My father used to make an argument that all big guys were crooked and little guys didn't stand a chance. I had just read Rand, so I told him the thing that makes him say that is the same thing that will guarantee he will never get there. I immediately felt bad. Goddammit, this was my father and that kind of realization hurts. Besides, I wanted to look up to him, not say something like that. But I don't think he even heard me...

People who think like that think it's simple and easy for everyone except them.

Michael

[turkeyfoot]

10 hours ago, Marcus said:

Trump represents a small, incremental movement in the right direction, if ever so slightly. That's a win in my book. He at least says he plans to lower taxes and regulations significantly. Clinton represents a movement in the opposite direction. Voting for her is not a "rational" decision in any event.

Yes.

9 hours ago, jts said:

According to the Young Turks, Trump has about 10 B when he is bragging about how wealthy he is but when he is paying income tax he has less than 1 B, maybe much less. According to the YT, Trump went bankrupt 6 times, first time he lost his own money, after that he lost other people's money. The YT have a whole shitload of dirt on Trump.

 

This is where things get interesting. Were into the weeds here, on the psychological portrait of men/women who seek political office. He is a liar in my book. Forbes has been following Trumps assets for 30 yrs and documents a 4.1B estate. Half what he says. Then there is the major story line of his comeback refuted by 6 bankers. It falls into place, his overestimation of himself, his resources, the spin. http://fortune.com/2016/07/17/trump-financial-comeback-story/ 

Over a Billion. Hes rich, period. He cares about money. De facto proof. The lies he tells are about himself.

Clinton cares about money. Not yours. She wants single payer. She wants to raise taxes, free college, amnesty, non vetted immigrants. The lies she told have consequences for national security.

To clear my head of his ramblings, Ive concentrated my concerns on his positions on the Make Americas Great Again website.

Truth matters. So does the shameful failure to fulfill her obligations and a progressive policy that ignores the condition of the economy and her anti constitutional framework for governance. 

If he proves himself to be as damnably corrupt or short circuits I wont vote for him.

Will the lies they tell themselves irreparably harm the US or me? Yes for her, already have. Maybe, maybe not in regard to what Trump says he will do.