moralist Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 A first person account of his own experience... http://observer.com/2016/07/jared-kushner-the-donald-trump-i-know/ It's funny... some people are adored by the general public and disliked by those closest to them. Donald Trump is the opposite. While he's publicly disliked by many, he is loved by the people who are the closest to him and know him best. This speaks volumes about a person's character. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaalChatzaf Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 6 hours ago, moralist said: A first person account of his own experience... http://observer.com/2016/07/jared-kushner-the-donald-trump-i-know/ It's funny... some people are adored by the general public and disliked by those closest to them. Donald Trump is the opposite. While he's publicly disliked by many, he is loved by the people who are the closest to him and know him best. This speaks volumes about a person's character. Greg How he behaves in public, speaks volumes about Trump's manners. Does he have any? In Russian there is a good word to describe The Donald: некультурный (pronounced nyekooltornyih) It means uncultured, uncouth (in short a barbarian, a philistine ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 48 minutes ago, BaalChatzaf said: How he behaves in public, speaks volumes about Trump's manners. Does he have any? In Russian there is a good word to describe The Donald: некультурный (pronounced nyekooltornyih) It means uncultured, uncouth (in short a barbarian, a philistine ). Russians on "manners"--what a hoot. This is America, Bob. Manners? I don't have to show you any manners! We don't need no stinkin' manners! --Brant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaalChatzaf Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 18 minutes ago, Brant Gaede said: Russians on "manners"--what a hoot. This is America, Bob. Manners? I don't have to show you any manners! We don't need no stinkin' manners! --Brant Good Manners is the mark of civilized behavior. What is even more important is culture and intellectual depth, both of which are absent from The Donald Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 1 hour ago, BaalChatzaf said: Good Manners is the mark of civilized behavior. What is even more important is culture and intellectual depth, both of which are absent from The Donald How gauche and ill-bred of you to say something so crude! J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 7 hours ago, BaalChatzaf said: Good Manners is the mark of civilized behavior. What is even more important is culture and intellectual depth, both of which are absent from The Donald Were there good manners in 1930s Nazi Germany? --Brant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaalChatzaf Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 1 hour ago, Brant Gaede said: Were there good manners in 1930s Nazi Germany? --Brant One can be civilized and evil. Good manners indicate the "civil" in civilization. Boorishness can be tolerate in five year old children. But can boorishness be tolerate in 70 old adults???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 50 minutes ago, BaalChatzaf said: But can boorishness be tolerate in 70 old adults???? Not by those who celebrate civility in people devoted to evil. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Letendre Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 I will consider manners when I vote on the next Miss Manners. This is about Commander in Chief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaalChatzaf Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 49 minutes ago, Jon Letendre said: I will consider manners when I vote on the next Miss Manners. This is about Commander in Chief. The C in C has to take an oath to protect, uphold and defend the Constitution. Does Trump have any idea what kind of limits the Constitution puts on the President? I think he might be fuzzy on the concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Letendre Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 12 minutes ago, BaalChatzaf said: The C in C has to take an oath to protect, uphold and defend the Constitution. Does Trump have any idea what kind of limits the Constitution puts on the President? I think he might be fuzzy on the concept. I think the Supreme Court might be fuzzy on it, too. Obama seems to be a bit fuzzy on it. Seriously, your solution is more manners? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaalChatzaf Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 14 minutes ago, Jon Letendre said: I think the Supreme Court might be fuzzy on it, too. Obama seems to be a bit fuzzy on it. Seriously, your solution is more manners? My solution is to read and understand the Constitution and to understand how the Courts work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Letendre Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 13 minutes ago, BaalChatzaf said: My solution is to read and understand the Constitution and to understand how the Courts work. Hillary understands those things, but will that lead her to respect them? Will she respect the Constitution, or trample on it while the country watches in horror as our institutions do NOTHING to check the first woman president, just like they have sat on their asses and done nothing to check the first black president? With Trump, you'll get a guy with less constitutional book knowledge, but our institutions will at least be on alert, checking him. Much safer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaalChatzaf Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 1 hour ago, Jon Letendre said: Hillary understands those things, but will that lead her to respect them? Will she respect the Constitution, or trample on it while the country watches in horror as our institutions do NOTHING to check the first woman president, just like they have sat on their asses and done nothing to check the first black president? With Trump, you'll get a guy with less constitutional book knowledge, but our institutions will at least be on alert, checking him. Much safer. Does Trump understand Constitutional checks and balances? Or is all he knows: Let's Make a Deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Letendre Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 12 minutes ago, BaalChatzaf said: Does Trump understand Constitutional checks and balances? Or is all he knows: Let's Make a Deal? Trump knows deals. Hillary knows bribes, blackmail, lies, corruption, destruction of the women her husband raped, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted July 8, 2016 Author Share Posted July 8, 2016 18 hours ago, BaalChatzaf said: How he behaves in public, speaks volumes about Trump's manners. Does he have any? In Russian there is a good word to describe The Donald: некультурный (pronounced nyekooltornyih) It means uncultured, uncouth (in short a barbarian, a philistine ). We each have completely different priorities, Bob. Public behavior is most important to you. Moral character is most important to me. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaalChatzaf Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 7 hours ago, Jon Letendre said: Trump knows deals. Hillary knows bribes, blackmail, lies, corruption, destruction of the women her husband raped, etc. I have said it often. Trump's mental universe goes as far as "Let's make a deal". That is insufficient for governance. I am not making a brief (nor will I ever) for Hillary. I plan to sit out the next election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 7 hours ago, moralist said: Public behavior is most important to you. Moral character is most important to me. Greg, Amen. I'm ragging Bob a bit, but underneath he's a good guy with a big heart. It's a good thing that--in practice--we love him on OL (OK, only like him for some ) due to his good character and keep ragging him and poking him in the ribs over his grumpy public behavior. If public behavior over character were our standard (as his is with Trump), he would go the way of the crazy lady. I finally read the article. Trump gets that kind of testimonial to his character over and over by those who know him. It's a hoot watching anti-Trumpers try to paint him as a racist, antisemite, etc., when the people in his family (like Kushner) or close work relations (like Omarosa) or just friends are precisely in the groups they say he hates. Trump doesn't even need counter-propaganda. All he needs are the two eyes and two ears of each individual to debunk all bigotry smears. And, despite a lot of noise from the attackers, it's working. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaalChatzaf Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 3 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said: Greg, Amen. I'm ragging Bob a bit, but underneath he's a good guy with a big heart. It's a good thing that--in practice--we love him on OL (OK, only like him for some ) due to his good character and keep ragging him and poking him in the ribs over his grumpy public behavior. If public behavior over character were our standard (as his is with Trump), he would go the way of the crazy lady. I finally read the article. Trump gets that kind of testimonial to his character over and over by those who know him. It's a hoot watching anti-Trumpers try to paint him as a racist, antisemite, etc., when the people in his family (like Kushner) or close work relations (like Omarosa) or just friends are precisely in the groups they say he hates. Trump doesn't even need counter-propaganda. All he needs are the two eyes and two ears of each individual to debunk all bigotry smears. And, despite a lot of noise from the attackers, it's working. Michael Trumps main flaw is his limited intellect. It never gets much beyond: "Let's make a deal". Now I am a techno-dweeb. I have been a STEM-nerd since I taught myself calculus when I was 13 years old. I deal with very hard principles and facts. In addition I am (or was) an aviator. I have a pilot's license (not currently active -- I would have to be re-examined after all these years). An aviator knows this hard truth: fly right or die. When one is 30 feet off the ground with no solid support underneath one is in The Halls of Death. When one flies are two choices: fly the plane as the conditions dictate or die. There are no deals to be made. The whole concept of deal making is totally foreign to science, math and aviation. Let's make a deal is for lesser minds that cannot cope with science, math or the conditions of air and altitude. Let's make a deal is for gamblers and card sharps, politicians and business negotiators. It is not a hard rock activity. Real hard intellects deal in terms of fact and strict logic. That is the only deal for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveWolfer Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 7 minutes ago, BaalChatzaf said: Let's make a deal is for lesser minds that cannot cope with science, math You also mentioned gamblers and card sharps, and politicians... and threw in business negotiators. I think this is an emotional categorization and not a reasoned one. The degree of specialization we see in a very developed and mature free market becomes astounding. I usually don't turn to Atlas Shrugged for examples, but look at the business deals that Dagny Taggart and Hank Reardon made. They didn't just involve production of his steel but also logistics and finance. And running a railroad is about producing a service which is an endless number of related business negotiations. "Real hard intellect deals in terms of fact and strict logic... but those are found in all worthwhile areas of human endeavor. I hope to see those traits at work in social sciences and business decisions, not just hard sciences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaalChatzaf Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 6 minutes ago, SteveWolfer said: You also mentioned gamblers and card sharps, and politicians... and threw in business negotiators. I think this is an emotional categorization and not a reasoned one. The degree of specialization we see in a very developed and mature free market becomes astounding. I usually don't turn to Atlas Shrugged for examples, but look at the business deals that Dagny Taggart and Hank Reardon made. They didn't just involve production of his steel but also logistics and finance. And running a railroad is about producing a service which is an endless number of related business negotiations. "Real hard intellect deals in terms of fact and strict logic... but those are found in all worthwhile areas of human endeavor. I hope to see those traits at work in social sciences and business decisions, not just hard sciences. Logistics is a an art demanding logic and rigor. Where is "Let's make a deal?". Either the goods get delivered to where they are needed by the time they are need or they aren't Where is the "deal making" in that? Logistics is properly the subject of statistical analysis and mathematical modeling. Making logistic decisions without complete knowledge of conditions is a nifty place to apply Bayesian statistics. Where is Let's make a deal in that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveWolfer Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 1 minute ago, BaalChatzaf said: Where is "Let's make a deal?". Where did I say that "Let's make a deal" was part of logistics? I don't understand how you could understand what I wrote in that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted July 8, 2016 Author Share Posted July 8, 2016 34 minutes ago, BaalChatzaf said: Trumps main flaw is his limited intellect. We each have different priorities, Bob. Intelligence is most important to you. Moral character is most important to me. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaalChatzaf Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 4 minutes ago, moralist said: We each have different priorities, Bob. Intelligence is most important to you. Moral character is most important to me. Greg Trump's bad manners and abusive interaction with others do not suggest moral excellence to me. He is a dolt and a barbarian. Insult seems as natural to him as breathing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaalChatzaf Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 2 minutes ago, SteveWolfer said: Where did I say that "Let's make a deal" was part of logistics? I don't understand how you could understand what I wrote in that way. You brought the matter of logistics up when we were discussing Trump who is the very personification of Let's Make a Deal. My error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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