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There is some indication, according to the latest news articles, that the Orlando Shooter who has killed at least 50 people my be an adherent of DAESH (ISIS).  This may be an indication of singular acts of terrorism which involve just killing people in small groups rather than crashing a commercial flight into a tall building.  This kind of killing will be very hard to stop... What can one do with a shooter that would just as soon die for his act?   Short of carpet bombing the Middle East with nukes I do not see a ready solution.  

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24 minutes ago, BaalChatzaf said:

Short of carpet bombing the Middle East with nukes I do not see a ready solution.  

Mass murder in the Middle East is the “ready solution” to lone wolf mass shootings in Orlando.  Yeah, sure Bob. 

FWIW, early reports say he was born in New York.

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1 hour ago, BaalChatzaf said:

What can one do with a shooter that would just as soon die for his act?  

Am I armed in this situation with a round in the chamber? Shoot him. Or run into a fusillade of bullets risking death to save my life.

The more pressing question, imo, is what 2nd amendment freedoms, among others, does the citizenry stand to lose due to attempts to deal with such killings. This is the context for the 8th circuit courts rulings. http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2016/03/appeals-court-ruling-could-threaten-the-second-amendment-rights-of-american-citizens

As we know, when seconds count the police are minutes away.  

Taking Hap Ki Do classes in the early '90's, a man with a gun met a student of the school, his wife, coming out into the parking lot. The owner and the Kwan Jahng Nim, was a Korean born, 8th Dan Tae Kwon Do, 8th Dan Hap Ki Do, 7th Dan Judo and 4th Dan Kendo. He had also survived an assassination attempt on the South Korean president, taking 2 bullets in his chest, as his body guard. The owner sized up the shooter and explained interfering would have made no difference in what the man did next. The man killed his wife in front of everyone and then shot himself. Even the instructor I referred to as Dr Death would stand no chance.

 

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2 hours ago, 9thdoctor said:

Mass murder in the Middle East is the “ready solution” to lone wolf mass shootings in Orlando.  Yeah, sure Bob. 

FWIW, early reports say he was born in New York.

place of birth is not the issue.  Did he pledge allegiance to DAESH?  

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Though not specific to the nightclub,

ISIS Announced Florida Threat THREE Days Ago: “We Will Attack Florida”
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/06/isis-announced-florida-attack-three-days-ago/

Quote
Shoebat.com reported on the threat three days ago.

ISIS Muslim terrorists released a statement on their plan to attack Florida, and even put out a list with the names of people in Florida that they plan on killing. According to one report:

A pro-Isis group has released a hit list with the names of more than 8,000 peoplemostly Americans.

More than 600-people live in Florida, and one security expert believes that many of those targeted live in Palm Beach County and on the Treasure Coast.

The “United Cyber Caliphate” that hacked U.S. Central Command, 54,000 Twitter accounts and threatened President Barack Obama is the same pro-Isis group that’s reportedly created a “kill list” with the names, addresses and emails of thousands of civilian Americans.

Reports of the list came to light online when Vocativ reported the list was shared via the encrypted app, Telegram, and called on supporters to kill.

Former FBI agent-turned lawyer Stuart Kaplan says the threat is especially alarming, because the people on this list are civilians who don’t have the security necessary to protect themselves.

“It’s going to create some hysteria,” he said…

 

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3 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

As I asked in the Trump thread, the terrorist was an Islamist and he was targeting gays.

How does a Trump presidency look now? Or do people want to keep thinking Trump is clueless or a bully?

Michael

Trump is far from clueless.  But he is a boor  and a barbarian....

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1 hour ago, BaalChatzaf said:

Trump is far from clueless.  But he is a boor  and a barbarian....

What does an aspie (clueless to social niceties) know of bores and barbarians?

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41 minutes ago, Mikee said:

What does an aspie (clueless to social niceties) know of bores and barbarians?

Civilized people learn good  manners when they are young and practice them for a life time.  Being socially awkward does not make one unaware of good manners. Trump is the master of the gratuitous insult and is clearly mannerless.  

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18 minutes ago, BaalChatzaf said:

Civilized people learn good  manners when they are young and practice them for a life time.  Being socially awkward does not make one unaware of good manners. Trump is the master of the gratuitous insult and is clearly mannerless.  

Those are perhaps his most admirable qualities, insulting people and being rude. I do not believe politeness is always a virtue. In general politicians are the lowest form of life walking on 2 feet and the general public needs to be told this. Follow Ayn Rand's advice: never fail to express moral judgement. Trump himself needs to be insulted.

In the last few weeks I've been deliberately developing the virtue of rudeness on the phone. Either I rudely hang up or I insult them. I see no logic in being polite; it would encourage them to phone me again.

I don't need much cause to rudely hang up. If they are selling something, I hang up. If they want money, I hang up. If they don't know my first name, I hang up. If I hear 'credit card', I hang up. If he represents Windows Computer or Microsoft Computer, I tell him he is a liar; those are fiction companies. If there is a warrant for my arrest, I hang up. If I can't hear what they are saying, I hang up. If I hear noise in the background, I hang up. If there is a delay in their response, I hang up. If he refuses to identify himself, I hang up. If I'm not at the phone (near my computer), I make no effort to get to the phone to answer it.

I admire Linus Torvalds' rudeness. He held up his middle finger and looked at the camera and said: Nvidia, fuck you." I admire that kind of directness and clarity of communication.

 

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8 minutes ago, jts said:

Those are perhaps his most admirable qualities, insulting people and being rude. I do not believe politeness is always a virtue. In general politicians are the lowest form of life walking on 2 feet and the general public needs to be told this. Follow Ayn Rand's advice: never fail to express moral judgement. Trump himself needs to be insulted.

In the last few weeks I've been deliberately developing the virtue of rudeness on the phone. Either I rudely hang up or I insult them. I see no logic in being polite; it would encourage them to phone me again.

I don't need much cause to rudely hang up. If they are selling something, I hang up. If they want money, I hang up. If they don't know my first name, I hang up. If I hear 'credit card', I hang up. If he represents Windows Computer or Microsoft Computer, I tell him he is a liar; those are fiction companies. If there is a warrant for my arrest, I hang up. If I can't hear what they are saying, I hang up. If I hear noise in the background, I hang up. If there is a delay in their response, I hang up. If he refuses to identify himself, I hang up. If I'm not at the phone (near my computer), I make no effort to get to the phone to answer it.

I admire Linus Torvalds' rudeness. He held up his middle finger and looked at the camera and said: Nvidia, fuck you." I admire that kind of directness and clarity of communication.

 

Hanging up on someone is not the same as a gratuitous insult in public.  Besides these people making troublesome calls are used to being hung up on  and when A calls  B,  B is within his rights to terminate the call for whatever reason.  That is not bad manners.  That is simply guarding one's time.

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14 minutes ago, jts said:

I admire Linus Torvalds' rudeness. He held up his middle finger and looked at the camera and said: Nvidia, fuck you." I admire that kind of directness and clarity of communication.

Nope I'm not making that up.

 

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6 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

How does a Trump presidency look now?

Bad as ever.

https://reason.com/blog/2016/06/13/in-america-muslims-are-more-likely-to-su

[T]hese numbers help demonstrate why exactly we cannot treat American Muslims as though they're inherently suspicious and prone to jump into extremism and jihads. American Muslims are not necessarily more conservative than many of our country's Christians. There are a whole host of different reasons for this (including the likelihood that Muslims immigrate to the United States in the first place to get away from extreme social conservatism within their own religion). Americans (including gay Americans) who interact regularly with Muslim citizens are probably less likely to see them as being profoundly different. Because they're not—in the United States.

Add to this mix information that Mateen apparently declared allegiance to different Islamist groups who are opposed to ISIS, like Hezbollah. In the end, Mateen may be a vicious garden-variety psychopath that we're treating exotically because he declared a connection to a terrorist group that hates the United States and has called for attacks against it. But in reality he may well be more reminiscent of serial killer Ted Bundy blaming his behavior on porn addiction.

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16 hours ago, 9thdoctor said:

Bad as ever.

https://reason.com/blog/2016/06/13/in-america-muslims-are-more-likely-to-su

[T]hese numbers help demonstrate why exactly we cannot treat American Muslims as though they're inherently suspicious and prone to jump into extremism and jihads. American Muslims are not necessarily more conservative than many of our country's Christians. There are a whole host of different reasons for this (including the likelihood that Muslims immigrate to the United States in the first place to get away from extreme social conservatism within their own religion). Americans (including gay Americans) who interact regularly with Muslim citizens are probably less likely to see them as being profoundly different. Because they're not—in the United States.

Add to this mix information that Mateen apparently declared allegiance to different Islamist groups who are opposed to ISIS, like Hezbollah. In the end, Mateen may be a vicious garden-variety psychopath that we're treating exotically because he declared a connection to a terrorist group that hates the United States and has called for attacks against it. But in reality he may well be more reminiscent of serial killer Ted Bundy blaming his behavior on porn addiction.

Mateen clearly indicated that he was  a Jihadi  Martyr wannabe   and he finally made the grade.  He shot up a lot of homosexuals and was killed in the process. Now he is with his 72 virgins. The gender of the virgins is in some doubt....

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5 hours ago, 9thdoctor said:

Bad as ever.

Dennis,

I think you are going to be in a small minority.

I doubt many people will think it a coincidence and nothing more that a murderous psychopath chose a murderous culture for inspiration for his killing spree.

But, who knows?

We'll see at voting time.

Michael

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17 hours ago, 9thdoctor said:

Bad as ever.

 In the end, Mateen may be a vicious garden-variety psychopath that we're treating exotically because he declared a connection to a terrorist group that hates the United States and has called for attacks against it. But in reality he may well be more reminiscent of serial killer Ted Bundy blaming his behavior on porn addiction.

We are hearing many similar rationalizations like these in SA too, making a moral comparison, along with much psychologizing -why did he do it - who/what "is to blame"...? Etc. The Christians, it's said by our holier than thou liberal secularists here, are or have been, just as violent. Hardly, and not recently. Whatever the surface 'causes' and pathology of this lowlife, it mustn't be escaped that evident here, the background of Islamic scriptures, teaching, preaching and societal influences - its philosophy/culture- played a big part. The religion of Christians, world-wide, has advanced tremendously and is mostly civilised with little to no hatred taught or violence practised.

It may be, that some prejudiced, homophobic US Christians will be forced to do some soul-searching as a result of this assault on their fellow Americans, which could be one good. Muslims everywhere definitely should do as well, of their religion as a whole. But nobody's doing either Muslims or Christians any favours or justice by applying flexible standards to each and sacrificing an evolved culture-philosophy to mea culpas.

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20 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

I think you are going to be in a small minority.

I doubt many people will think it a coincidence and nothing more that a murderous psychopath chose a murderous culture for inspiration for his killing spree.

It best fits the facts that have emerged so far.  Time will tell. 

BTW, murderous culture meaning: Islam full stop, or theocratic reactionary religious fanaticism, in this case Islamic?  I know you mean number two, but it’s a good idea to spell it out nowadays and hereabouts.  I could quote a line or two from Leviticus that ought to put every Jew on the terror watch list if we're going to start in with the amateur theology lessons vis-à-vis the Koran.  Edward Cline style.  With Craig Biddle-grade proposals for what ought to be done.

Another point, you're claiming Mateen was inspired by a "murderous culture".  Shackford (article linked above) hypothesizes that he was a psychopath (like Ted Bundy) who rationalized doing what he did by reference to religion.  In Bundy's case it was porn that took the rap.  Just want to be sure you caught that.  Maybe true, maybe not, maybe we'll never know.  And of course it's no coincidence. 

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