Kirkwoody

my Objectivist friends can't think for themselves anymore

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I have a great group of friends that I enjoy being/talking with immensely; we live in different parts of the country so we usually communicate through online discussions. As of late, I've become less interested in speaking with them because it seems the answer to nearly every question anyone asks is simply a link to an Ayn Rand quotation on the subject.  

Here's the thing...I'm perfectly capable of googling Ayn Rand's response on a topic... or perusing any one of my stack of Rand books to study her thoughts on a matter.  But - some of my friends are brilliant people, and I'm sincerely interested in learning how their minds work, and hearing them expound on a subject.  When I confronted the most intelligent guy in the group about it his response was "Rand was right so why should I have my own thoughts."

What would Rand say about this? Where would we be if she had said "Ahhh, Nietzsche is right...I don't need to think about things anymore!"

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51 minutes ago, Kirkwoody said:

 When I confronted the most intelligent guy in the group about it his response was "Rand was right so why should I have my own thoughts."

That's sad.  I'm a huge Rand admirer and consider myself a serious Objectivist and if I ever resort to quoting Rand or merely telling folks to look up what she said on some subject in response to a question, I'll just commit suicide.  If I learned anything from Rand, I learned to think for myself and draw my own conclusions.  

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Welcome to OL Charlie.

Stay the course. 

Ask your friend to, in his own words, explain why he thinks she is right about the issue.

A...

 

 

 

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Discuss issues that Rand didn't address, or about whch she didn't provide sufficient proof or reasoning, or about which she was contradictory or wrong. A good source for such issues is Ayn Rand Contra Human Nature.

Warning: With friends who constantly quote Rand instead of thinking for themselves, you should realize that it's highly likely that the won't be your friends for long. They'll choose Obedience to Rand over you. They will eventually find you to be guilty of sacrilege against Rand and Objectivism They'll denounce and excommunicate you. Be prepared to laugh it off.

J

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3 hours ago, Kirkwoody said:

I have a great group of friends that I enjoy being/talking with immensely; we live in different parts of the country so we usually communicate through online discussions. As of late, I've become less interested in speaking with them because it seems the answer to nearly every question anyone asks is simply a link to an Ayn Rand quotation on the subject.  

Here's the thing...I'm perfectly capable of googling Ayn Rand's response on a topic... or perusing any one of my stack of Rand books to study her thoughts on a matter.  But - some of my friends are brilliant people, and I'm sincerely interested in learning how their minds work, and hearing them expound on a subject.  When I confronted the most intelligent guy in the group about it his response was "Rand was right so why should I have my own thoughts."

What would Rand say about this? Where would we be if she had said "Ahhh, Nietzsche is right...I don't need to think about things anymore!"

You're complaining that your friends "answer to nearly every question anyone asks is simply a link to an Ayn Rand quotation on the subject", yet at the end of your post you're asking "what would Rand would say about this?"  Not sure if you realized you did this.

Anyway, Rand would want you to do your own inductions and (she'd say) if you did it objectively you'd end up with Objectivism.  Knowledge really isn't knowledge until an individual connects to something, integrates it (redowned to reality), so by quipping Rand quotes it doesn't necessarily indicate a person has or hasn't performed the mental work required.  The inference I'm making here is someone can definitely float some, or much, of Objectivism as a deductive system without redowning it properly, or perhaps redowning it some.  It might be indicative that someone quipping Rand quotes might be floating it in this way.

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Youre finding real lines of demarcation in what you expect from real friends. But at least you have them. The only time I come close to sensing alignment with AR is when Im on OL or certain areas of FB. I frequent, a bike forum and am always finding people who subscribe to parts of my principles but generally express themselves in a cloak of emotion that doesn't pass for real understanding. We meet once a year over common interests. My real friends in essence are social acquaintances not philosophy soul mates. I part ways only when I find unscrupulousness or social mores that are found lacking. You're expecting a lot. More importantly I think what you're seeing is how relationships generally follow a dictum of no politics and religion. Also its rare when people attempt to speak of things they dont understand. Its a faith thing.

My own brother with whom I've had a common interest in AR for a lifetime dedicated her book to me, saying "She spoke and many listened but, we were the few that heard. To all that is possible." All fine and good when it was written. When "life got in the way" it became apparent that whatever high falutin principles we said we subscribed to became less important than general rules of civility.

My aunt, who I love dearly, who is a preachers wife, never fails to praise god, is someone, who despite our differences meets our common need for caring and connectedness.

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Jules:

Even at 18 and attending  NBI, I thought her position on that was absurd and illogical.

However, we all have clay feet and even then it did not bother me since I always thought for myself.

I think that is why I was not devastated by the '68 split.

A...

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That is an excellent article Mark.

Thanks.

A...

 

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