Periodic Table finally completed


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Actual samples of elements with atomic number 113, 115, 117 and 118 have been found in laboratories around the world thus completing the bottom row of the Periodic Table. the Periodic Table was invented in 1869 by Dimitri Mendeleyev. It was a triumph of empirical chemistry. Mendeleyev was able to see the pattern of atomic weights and chemical properties and was not only able to classify the known 60 odd elements (in his time) but to predict the properties of a half dozen elements not yet seen in laboratories. these elements (all lighter than Uranium) were eventually isolated by chemists and, by golly(!!!!), they had exactly the properties predicted by Mendeleyev. This was one of the greatest triumphs of empirical insight in the history of science. All this happened before the development of quantum theory. In fact at that time (1869) atomic and molecular theory was only partially developed, so Mendeleyev's accomplishment is all the more amazing. In modern times one can use the Pauli Exclusion Principle and work out the possible patterns of electrons in shells about the nucleus.

With this completion, it probably means no more elements are likely to be discovered because any element with atomic number greater than 118 will be so unstable that it will not persist long enough to be discovered in laboratories. This completion is a not only a triumph of modern nuclear chemistry but a fitting memorial to Dimitri Mendeleyev whose periodic table put chemistry on a coherent basis.

For a review of the periodic table and its history do see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_periodic_table

Ba'al Chatzaf

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Sorry, Ba'al. StarTrek TNG mentions a lot more elements, and if you can think it . . . Is there some necessary reason for just so many rows of elements? Of course not. It is not a Logical necessity. The instability limitation will be conquered. And as a we explore the Universe more elements will be discovered. Dark matter elements? Multi dimensional elements? Black hole elements?

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And who made chemistry chemistry? I think he was the guy who got his head chopped off, Lavoisier.

Lavoisier and Priestly (English) discovered oxygen. Their work scuttled the phlogiston theory

Lavoisier's main contribution was his super accurate measurements of weight, volume and moisture

which were instrumental in establishing conservation laws. Lavoisier show that matter (chemical elements0

were not destroyed or created out of nothing. Rather, they were transformed or recombined. Thus matter

is conserved in chemical reactions.

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Sorry, Ba'al. StarTrek TNG mentions a lot more elements, and if you can think it . . . Is there some necessary reason for just so many rows of elements? Of course not. It is not a Logical necessity. The instability limitation will be conquered. And as a we explore the Universe more elements will be discovered. Dark matter elements? Multi dimensional elements? Black hole elements?

Do not confuse science fiction with science. The possible elements are constrained by the Pauli Exclusion principle which determines which

configurations of electrons along with their spins, magnetic moments and quantum numbers are possible. The real limit is the nucleus.

Too many protons and neutrons render the nucleus unstable and it fissions into other elements. The key to chemistry is quantum theory.

All the elements above and including proton count 92 (Uranium) are unstable. They are radioactive and decay into lighter elements.

As for "dark matter" we have no idea of what it is made of. Its only manifestation are its gravitational effects.

The periodic table contains stuff that is made of protons, neutrons, electrons and neutrinos, which constitute a subset of "none dark matter".

Ba'al Chatzaf

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Ba’al wrote: The possible elements are constrained by the Pauli Exclusion principle which determines which configurations of electrons along with their spins, magnetic moments and quantum numbers are possible. The real limit is the nucleus. Too many protons and neutrons render the nucleus unstable and it fissions into other elements. The key to chemistry is quantum theory.
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Thanks, Bob. The Pauli Principle is a clincher for normal space but within a black hole, can you swear its interior is not just ONE super element as yet unknown and undiscovered by Man? Some light escapes, almost as if it outruns gravity, therefor some information escapes. The universe is vast and expanding. We have inhabited and viewed a trillionth of that reality. I know the laws of reality don’t expand but is that because those laws are human constructs? Does your mind go where no other mind has gone before? Several theories like *String Theory* posit more dimensions than we can experience with our senses . . . . but with our minds? I am not suggesting a scifi type dichotomy but isn’t Quantum Theory one of those theoretical realities we cannot sense but we can think?

More stable than Uranium. Peter

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You can't say what goes on in a black hole violates the Pauli Principle. It's no more valid than the moon is made of green cheese used to be. One's mouth, one's mind, never trumps reality. It can only be coincident. You cannot argue from an impossible frame of reference.

--Brant

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Brant wrote: One's mouth, one's mind, never trumps reality. It can only be coincident. You cannot argue from an impossible frame of reference.
end quantum

Aaaargh!

Peter Brown. Nothing implied.

Scientists just saw light coming out of a black hole for the first time By Lulu Chang 4 hours ago

In epitomizing darkness, few natural phenomena do the job better than black holes. After all, with their inexorable gravitational pull, nothing, not even light, can be seen … right? Well, mostly. Last week, for the first time ever, scientists observed visible light emanating from within a black hole with naught more than a 20 cm. telescope. Forget everything you know — science is always rewriting itself.

Apparently, the rather beautiful phenomena occurs when, as the Guardian explains, “material from surrounding space falls into them and releases violent bursts of light.” Essentially, when some matter is sucked into one of these massive pits of gravity, they emit an incredible amount of energy, which can manifest itself as light. And when this happens, it looks like we’re seeing light coming out of a black hole.

Back in June of 2015, a team of scientists led by Mariko Kimura of Kyoto University, became the first to ever see this sort of light through a telescope when a black hole named V404 Cygni, one of the closest to planet Earth, began showing activity after lying dormant for 26 years. Around every six and a half days, Cygni and its partner star (a celestial body a bit smaller than the sun) would circle one another, and when the black hole came to life again, it began feasting on the star. For two weeks, the astronomers were able to see flashes of light — some lasting just minutes, while others continued for several hours — as Cygni worked its magic.

“We find that activity in the vicinity of a black hole can be observed in optical light at low luminosity for the first time,” researcher Mariko Kimura told Space.com. “These findings suggest that we can study physical phenomena that occur in the vicinity of the black hole using moderate optical telescopes without high-spec X-ray or gamma-ray telescopes.”

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Peter writes:

I know the laws of reality don’t expand but is that because those laws are human constructs?

No man has the power to create the laws which govern reality. And they are as well ordered and consistent everywhere in the universe as electron shells on nuclei. Man can only discover the laws which are already in existence...

...although the really stupid ones bloat with pride like fat toads as if they were responsible for creating them! :laugh:

Greg

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.

Bob, from the news releases on the completion of the seventh row, I gather we don’t know yet whether any element will be found in a possible eighth row. To count as a chemical element, they are requiring the nuclei have a half-life of at least ten to the minus fourteen seconds, which is the time needed for an electron cloud to form. The story contrasts in this respect, at least for now, with the closure in 1989 of the number of families of matter.*

Peter, even if the number of physical laws in the universe is finite and even if the number of kinds of chemical elements is limited, there is no limit in principle to the number of things men can invent using them. There is no limit to what men can create with Carbon, for example. But for the circumstance that the species man will cease.* Still, for man: “So many days have not yet broken.” –Rig Veda

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Merlin writes:

24 of the 118 identified chemical elements are synthetic.

I thought that was clear I was not referring to elements... but to the logical order of laws which govern them.

Man can discover the wisdom of those laws, and can invent by recombining the matter and energy what already exists...

...but no man created the laws which evenly and consistently govern the existence and operation of the physical universe.

This simple truth alone makes fools of the proud bloated toads.

Greg

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I thought that was clear I was not referring to elements... but to the logical order of laws which govern them.

Fair enough. I saw that, but you also referred to "electron shells on nuclei", which is about chemical elements. My main point was that synthetic elements are man-made.

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Greg has almost identified the enemy: toads.

no man created the laws which evenly and consistently govern the existence and operation of the physical universe.

This simple truth alone makes fools of the proud bloated toads.


Yeah.

...although the really stupid ones bloat with pride like fat toads as if they were responsible for creating them!


Yeah. Those dang prideful bloated toads who think they created physical laws.

Got some names, Greg? Can you think of a single 'bloated toad' who thinks that?

cane-toad_2246996b.jpg

Edited by william.scherk
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Bob, from the news releases on the completion of the seventh row, I gather we don’t know yet whether any element will be found in a possible eighth row. To count as a chemical element, they are requiring the nuclei have a half-life of at least ten to the minus fourteen seconds, which is the time needed for an electron cloud to form. The story contrasts in this respect, at least for now, with the closure in 1989 of the number of families of matter.*

Peter, even if the number of physical laws in the universe is finite and even if the number of kinds of chemical elements is limited, there is no limit in principle to the number of things men can invent using them. There is no limit to what men can create with Carbon, for example. But for the circumstance that the species man will cease.* Still, for man: “So many days have not yet broken.” –Rig Veda

The elements with a high proton count are very unstable and last barely long enough to be identified. It is logically possible and consistent with the Pauli Exclusion Principle that elements on Row 8 could exist, but it is rather unlikely given the current state of technology that humans can create them and that they persist long enough to be identified. My intuitive guess as that the periodic table has been completed for the time being. If we ever get familiar with so called "dark matter" therer may be other types of ponderable stuff that can be found or created. Time will tell.

For those interested in synthetic elements have a look here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_element

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Merlin writes:

Fair enough. I saw that, but you also referred to "electron shells on nuclei", which is about chemical elements. My main point was that synthetic elements are man-made.

No problem Merlin. :smile:

I just wanted to make perfectly clear that I was referring to the laws that govern the logical order of electron shells, and not the electrons themselves. These nuances of meaning are easily lost.

Greg

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William, the operative words are "as if".

Yeah. As if.

As if you could find a single example of "the really stupid ones bloated with pride like fat toads," and share it with us.

As if you could offer some support for your statement other than squirming and dodging. I think we know who is bloated with pride.

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Ah, Greg, when challenged to make sense or give an example, you ... prefer to be lame.

Always a pleasure doing cognitive business with you.

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This is the governing principle:

Liberal government educated secular narcissists are too stupid to recognize intelligence that is grater than human intelligence, so they puff up with pride like fat toads when they make a scientific discovery AS IF they had created it.

Whoever the shoe fits, wears it whether they like it or not.

Looks good on you, William. :wink:

Greg

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William, have you made a scientific discovery and not shared the news with the rest of us? That's rather un-toad-ish of you.

No, I have not secretly made a discovery usable to science. I am puzzled indeed though by Greg's rhetoric.

I think he might be trying to contrast a humble discoverer with a prideful discoverer. But since he cannot for the life of him give us an example of the thing he decries, we are left ignorant, if not stupefied. This is how he usually leaves us, hanging.

  • proud bloated toads
  • really stupid ones bloat with pride like fat toads
  • Liberal government educated secular narcissists
  • too stupid to recognize intelligence that is grater than human intelligence
  • puff up with pride like fat toads when they make a scientific discovery

I think the operative term is "intelligence grater than human intelligence." If a scientific discovery is not touted as a revelation of God's Perfect Plan, then there is a toad in the room.

Since few scientific discoveries are presented as instances of God's Perfect Plan ... Greg can disparage all of the activity and its fruit and its impact. If it doesn't give Glory to God, it just ain''t good enough for the Moralist.

That is my surmise. Since Greg is too intelligent to descend into petty name-calling and deflection, we might soon know if my surmise is astute or not. Glory to God, glory to Greg.

Discover the helical structure of DNA, but don't trumpet God? Well, you are a secular narcissistic toad.

Prove the existence of quasars, without mentioning the Creator? Toad. And so on.

There is perhaps not a single scientist in modern history that Greg does not consider a toad. Which is too bad. I would like to be able to contrast a non-Toad with a Toad.

***********************************************

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Here is an example snatched from today's science headlines, a bit of premature touting of not-yet-announced detection of gravity waves. I can only imagine the bloated toadishness that will accompany confirmation ... if and when that happens. Lawrence Krauss certainly got excited, if within reasonable bounds.

Greg, if this exciting snippet emerges as a strong claim, how much of the effort and accomplishment is tainted by not acknowledging God's Perfect Plan? I mean, if that is your criteria for Toad-ism.

Excited rumors began circulating on Twitter this morning that a major experiment designed to hunt for gravitational waves—ripples in the fabric of spacetime first predicted by Albert Einstein—has observed them directly for the very first time. If confirmed, this would be one of the most significant physics discoveries of the last century.

Move a large mass very suddenly—or have two massive objects suddenly collide, or a supernova explode—and you would create ripples in space-time, much like tossing a stone in a still pond. The more massive the object, the more it will churn the surrounding spacetime, and the stronger the gravitational waves it should produce. Einstein predicted their existence in his general theory of relativity back in 1915, but he thought it would never be possible to test that prediction.

LIGO (Laser Interferometer Gravitational Wave Observatory) is one of several experiments designed to hunt for these elusive ripples, and with its latest upgrade to Advanced LIGO, completed last year, it has the best chance of doing so. In fact, it topped our list of physics stories to watch in 2016.

There have been excited rumors about a LIGO discovery before, most notably a mere week after the upgraded experiment began operations last fall. Lawrence Krauss, a physicist at Arizona State University, spilled the beans on Twitter, giving it a 10- to 15-percent chance of being true. “The official response is that we’re analyzing the data,” LIGO spokesperson Gabriela González (Louisiana State University) told Nature at the time.

Edited by william.scherk
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