Beyond Carnism

[jts]

Which is the better place to put this -- ethics? or humor?

Nothing wrong with carnism; stroganoff, one of Ayn Rand's fave recipes. contains dead animal. The fact that Ayn Rand ate it proves carnism is rational.

Skip this video after 7 minutes.

Any good nutrition software program can prove that you can easily get enough of all amino acids (components of protein) from plant sources. This is fact, not opinion. So protein is not the problem with vegan, contrary to popular myth.

Maybe B12 and long chain omega-3 are problems with vegan.

If you want to argue against the above statement about protein and vegan, you have the following options:

1. You can argue against the USDA (United States Department of Agriculture) data. They update it from time to time. The last I saw it had 7500 foods and 140 nutrients. If you multiply those 2 numbers together and subtract the blank spots in the data, you get a rough idea of how much data the file contains. I think the most serious criticism of the data is that different soils can produce HUGE differences in amount of micronutrients in the plants. (Nutrition begins with the soil.)

2. You can argue against the nutrient requirements. But any good nutrition program will allow you to set your own nutrient requirements. Nutrient requirements tend to be a somewhat controversial subject for probably most nutrients. For my DMAK (Diet Monger Ass Kicker) program (which I removed from my website), I set the protein requirement to about double what it probably should be and there was no problem getting enough protein from a vegan diet, without excess calories. Most nutrients, you easily get more than you need from vegan, without excess calories. The worst problem on vegan is B12.

3. You can argue against math. But I don't think this is rational.

On point 1, I suspect that it boils down to the soil. If your diet is grown in the best soil (and I don't mean just NPK), you probably will get sufficient and complete nutrients no matter what you eat. But if your diet is grown in the worst soil, you probably will not be able to sustain health no matter what you eat. I base this suspicion largely on the Rutgers experiment. The difference between the most and the least was up to almost a factor of 2000 (two thousand).

[Brant Gaede]

Yeah--go put ground up multi-vitamin mineral tablets into your garden's soil. Maybe a ground up cow or two too.

--Brant

[Mikee]

Jerry,

Thanks for this. I am doing personal research on diet for myself and my wife lately. Two books I've just ordered: "Diabetes Epidemic and You" & "Dr. Gundry's Diet Evolution".

I've had limited success with intermittent fasting the last few months. Some days I feel great, other days not so great. But I have the issue of the heart procedures for afib which are not completely resolved yet and am taking the anti-coagulant Xarelto everyday for the next few months. The recommended diet in the above books are low carb. But I'm learning that animal meat is not a requirement. I may stick to fish and eggs for protein, plenty of coconut and olive oils for cooking, lots of green vegetables, raw nuts liberally.

Regarding your posted videos: #1: I made if through the first couple of minutes. Question: do you think domestic animals bred for the purpose of eating would not go extinct if humans stopped raising them for that purpose? Anyway, I call the contents of video 1 moral begging and can't stand to listen to it. #2: Very much enjoyed this one, I really like Patrik. Thanks very much for introducing me to this very bright and accomplished young man. I have an observation; strength maintenance is much much easier than building strength. Do you think this man could have developed the muscle mass in his early training on a vegan diet? I'm also sure his health and recovery improved when he switched to vegan. And also strength (the ability to contract your muscles) is neurological, "strength is a skill" [per Pavel Tsatsouline]. Patrik's success as a strongman may not have been possible if he had been vegan his whole life. Nevertheless, his example and experience may be very instructive for us older guys trying to maintain our health and vitality as we get older. Thanks again.

[jts]

Yeah--go put ground up multi-vitamin mineral tablets into your garden's soil. Maybe a ground up cow or two too.

--Brant

Plants don't need vitamins from the soil. Plants can make vitamins (except B12 and D and A). Plants need minerals.

[jts]

I've had limited success with intermittent fasting the last few months. Some days I feel great, other days not so great. But I have the issue of the heart procedures for afib which are not completely resolved yet and am taking the anti-coagulant Xarelto everyday for the next few months. The recommended diet in the above books are low carb. But I'm learning that animal meat is not a requirement. I may stick to fish and eggs for protein, plenty of coconut and olive oils for cooking, lots of green vegetables, raw nuts liberally.

About intermittent fasting:

Dr. Alec Burton says on his website that he is not a fan of short fasts.

My understanding is that during a fast (air, water, sleep, no food), there is a transition time of about 3 days for probably most people when the body goes from eating mode to fasting mode. During this transition time, the body is to some degree burning protein. This means to some degree starvation. After the transition time, the body is in full fat burning mode and is no longer starving and you can go weeks without starving and without hunger.

This means one long fast is less stressful on the body than a series of short fasts. After the transition, the fast, properly done (sleep, rest, keep warm), can be very restful and the opposite of stressful and contrary to what most people who never did a long fast probably assume, can be even enjoyable. During my 22 day fast, near the end I was feeling fine and didn't want to spoil it by eating. I ended the fast because I was doing it without supervision and it was longer than ever before and so I chickened out.

The transition time for most people is 2-4 days. For me it used to be like clockwork, predictable, the morning of the 4th day, hunger stopped. My last 3 fasts, hunger stopped the morning of the 2nd day. I take this to mean that there is such a thing as the body can adapt to fasting; now the transition from eating mode to fasting mode takes 1 day instead of 3 days, hardly enough time for hunger to develop much.