You Must Abandon Civilization Now! by Jeremiah the American

[Brant Gaede]

Did they have Section 8 housing in Boston and New York? I was not aware of that.

Did they have a Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act [PPACA] way back then?

My people could not find any food stamp outlets in Manhattan in 1903.

Also could not find any stores that said, in large letters, we accept WIC?

Maybe that is why you put it in humor?

A...

The roughest welcome of all would be in Boston, Massachusetts, an Anglo-Saxon city with a population of about 115,000. ... their city was undergoing nothing short of an unwanted "social revolution" as described by Ephraim Peabody, member of an old Yankee family. In 1847, the first big year of Famine emigration, the city was swamped with 37,000 Irish Catholics arriving by sea and land.

And once again, they fell victim to unscrupulous landlords. This time it was Boston landlords who sub-divided former Yankee dwellings into cheap housing, charging Irish families up to $1.50 a week to live in a single nine-by-eleven foot room with no water, sanitation, ventilation or daylight.

In Boston, as well as other American cities in the mid-1800s, there was no enforcement of sanitary regulations and no building or fire safety codes. Landlords could do as they pleased. A single family three-story house along the waterfront that once belonged to a prosperous Yankee merchant could be divided-up room by room into housing for a hundred Irish, bringing a nice profit.

The overflow Irish would settle into the gardens, back yards and alleys surrounding the house, living in wooden shacks. Demand for housing of any quality was extraordinary. People lived in musty cellars with low ceilings that partially flooded with every tide. Old warehouses and other buildings within the Irish enclave were hastily converted into rooming houses using flimsy wooden partitions that provided no privacy.

A Boston Committee of Internal Health studying the situation described the resulting Irish slum as "a perfect hive of human beings, without comforts and mostly without common necessaries; in many cases huddled together like brutes, without regard to age or sex or sense of decency. Under such circumstances self-respect, forethought, all the high and noble virtues soon die out, and sullen indifference and despair or disorder, intemperance and utter degradation reign supreme."

The unsanitary conditions were breeding grounds for disease, particularly cholera. Sixty percent of the Irish children born in Boston during this period didn't live to see their sixth birthday. Adult Irish lived on average just six years after stepping off the boat onto American soil.

[…]

Immediately upon arrival in New York harbor, they were met by Irishmen known as 'runners' speaking in Gaelic and promising to 'help' their fellow countrymen. Many of the new arrivals, quite frightened at the mere prospect of America, gladly accepted. Those who hesitated were usually bullied into submission. The runner's first con was to suggest a good place to stay in New York; a boarding house operated by a friend, supposedly with good meals and comfortable rooms at very affordable rates, including free storage of any luggage.

The boarding houses were actually filthy hell-holes in lower Manhattan. Instead of comfortable rooms, the confused arrivals were shoved into vermin-infested hovels with eight or ten other unfortunate souls, at prices three or four times higher than what they had been told. They remained as 'boarders' until their money ran out at which time their luggage was confiscated for back-rent and they were tossed out into the streets, homeless and penniless.

[…]

The penniless Irish who remained in Manhattan stayed crowded together close to the docks where they sought work as unskilled dock workers. They found cheap housing wherever they could, with many families living in musty cellars. Abandoned houses near the waterfront that once belonged to wealthy merchants were converted into crowded tenements. Shoddy wooded tenements also sprang up overnight ...

See much more here (where the consequential crime is also discussed): http://www.historyplace.com/worldhistory/famine/america.htm

And, as Jeremiah predicted, the Irish wormed their way into America, first taking over the police departments, and the Army, and eventually placing one of their own in the White House.

And then came the Italians.

The heroic landlords provided housing.

--Brant

[moralist]

Actually, I've known many more leftists who were truly self-suffient than nut job conservative doomsday preppers who were. The lefty hippies actually independently produced their own food, clothing, etc., where the right-wing paranoid pretender preppers were totally dependent on society and just bought all of their prepper goods from the system that they claimed to oppose. In fact, all of the loony right-wing conspiracy preachers of imminent doom that I've known made their money by complying with, and even taking great advantage of, government's licensing or otherwise regulating their chosen professions and industries. I think the same is probably true of Apey Greg.

J

Your attitude is your own self inflicted obstacle to success in life.

Greg

You're the most ridiculously stupid person I've ever met.

J

Yeah, that's the attitude that sabotages your life... and you do it to yourself.

Greg

[Selene]

How did America's immigration pattern compare to other countries in the world's immigration pattern at that same time?

You are aware that other Irish, Italian, Polish and other immigrants did not have these experiences, correct?

The slums that you described still helped you to stay alive.

Back in the old country, the situation was horrific.

You seemed to have skipped that part of the story of Irish immigration to Boston and New York, etc.:

The influx of poor and desperate people that arrived in that 1847 were fleeing from death my friend.

Look, Selene, I do not know who you think you are arguing with, or what you think the topic is. Jeremiah the American bemoaned the invasion of alien immigrants who create slums and bring crime and destroy the American Republican. You got that much with your "Gregorian" nod. Then, you asked, rhetorically, if they had government welfare, Title 8 housing, Obamacare, etc., etc. I took that to mean that you think that those structures are the cause of the present conditions in the inner cities. So, I pointed out that they had analogous social structures for time which promised to serve them, but only made their conditions worse, as ours do now. Now you are on some other kind of rant.

In Part 3, later this week, Jeremiah has a dream about life in America in 1967.

Maybe I do not understand what your point(s) is/are.

Additionally, I do not think the "analogous structures" that existed in Boston and New York in the mid 1800's are remotely analogous to the current overwhelming repressive public welfare .

Apparently, that qualifies as a "rant" to you.

One significant difference between American citizens, and would be citizens, of then, and now, is that there was a a moral and ethical agreement on what was right and wrong then, that does not exist today.

A...

[Selene]

Ephraim Peabody seems to be quite a leader.

Ruggedly handsome New England looks

Ephraim Peabody (March 22, 1807-November 28, 1856), an early Unitarian missionary to the (then) western United States and later a prominent and beloved minister of King's Chapel in Boston, was widely recognized as an insightful and inspiring preacher. His theology of character was a central concept for antebellum Unitarian moralists. His own sensitivity and compassion won him great respect and affection. As part of his ministry in helping others build their character, he became a pioneer in social work, which for him encompassed everything from pastoral care to social justice.

http://uudb.org/articles/ephraimpeabody.html

[Mikee]

MEM's picture should be in the encyclopedia next to 'stream-of-consciousness', 'over-reach', and 'crow epistemology'.

[Not risk averse though, that's good...]

[Selene]

MEM's picture should be in the encyclopedia next to 'stream-of-

consciousness', 'over-reach', and 'crow epistemology'.

[Not risk averse though, that's good...]

Good one!

Apparently, the amazing Reverend Peabody followed the John Kerry Massachusetts route by marrying money!

In 1833 Peabody married Mary Ellen Derby, granddaughter of Elias Haskett Derby, a Salem merchant and America's first millionaire. Their son, Francis Greenwood Peabody, in his book about them, A New England Romance, 1920, represented their contrasting, yet complementary natures. Ephraim was "an unworldly and spiritual seer," Mary "a cultivated and masterful woman, of worldly experience and charm." In their son's view his parents, "happily joined in the common desire for service," represented "the two traditions of New England, the idealism of the hills and the commercialism of the cities."

Oh, and by the way, John Kerry served in Vietnam by the way. He never mentions it, so I do it for him.

Kerry is so wise and so humble.

A...

Go Lurch Run For President

[Selene]

Here is another reason that 'ole Ephraim was a leader.

He had a theory of cities:

The modern city, Peabody thought, added something new to the history of poverty, beyond such elements as alcoholism and mental disorders, found in earlier times. The city had acquired its own complicating force as a moral agency, at once abetting and opposing culture. "It awakens the sensibilities," he wrote. "It gives them a keener edge, it multiplies their demands, it carries a man out of himself, and connects his well-being with a constantly enlarging circle of influences external to himself-making him at the same time more self-subsistent and more dependent."

The increasing frenzy of urban life emphasized for Peabody the need for revealed religion. "There is but one conceivable way in which we can have any sufficient and reliable assurance of a future life, and this is through revelation."

Not any kind of religion, "revelation."

Revelation may be defined as the communication of some truth by God to a rational creature through means which are beyond the ordinary course of nature. George Joyce draws a distinction between revelation and inspiration. Inspiration – such as that bestowed by God on the author of a sacred book – involves a special illumination of the mind, in virtue of which the recipient conceives such thoughts as God desires him to commit to writing, and does not necessarily involve supernatural communication.[9]

With the Age of Enlightenment in Europe, beginning about the mid-17th century, the development of rationalism, materialism and atheism, the concept of supernatural revelation itself faced skepticism. In The Age of Reason (1794–1809), Thomas Paine develops the theology of deism, rejecting the possibility of miracles and arguing that a revelation can be considered valid only for the original recipient.[10]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revelation

A...

[Jonathan]

Actually, I've known many more leftists who were truly self-suffient than nut job conservative doomsday preppers who were. The lefty hippies actually independently produced their own food, clothing, etc., where the right-wing paranoid pretender preppers were totally dependent on society and just bought all of their prepper goods from the system that they claimed to oppose. In fact, all of the loony right-wing conspiracy preachers of imminent doom that I've known made their money by complying with, and even taking great advantage of, government's licensing or otherwise regulating their chosen professions and industries. I think the same is probably true of Apey Greg.

J

This is absolutely inaccurate and I have worked with both groups.

Frankly, your testimonial is just that, a testimonial.

The Amish are a clear example of not being "nut job conservative doomsday preppers."

Yet your bizarre labeling of folks that you do not like is incredibly glaring in your syntax.

A...

Bullshit. I don't think you have any real experience with real Amish groups. They are anything but independent and self-sufficient, and they're not "preppers." As time goes on, the more and more dependent they become on the outside world, and the more sects abandon the old rules about which technologies can't be used. They're very dependent on exchange with outsiders and on modern farming techniques.

J

I disagree...since my lady was a missionary midwife for a whole network of "Amish" type folks who were off the grid. Some of them were in Bolivia out in the Chaco, with no electricity, no indoor plumbing and horse drawn wagons where they would bring their milk to the local pueblo and trade.

So, you're saying that your lady, as an outsider who interacted regularly with Amish-types, provided them with her midwifery services, and that her doing so is evidence that they were independent and self-sufficient and didn't make use of outside services like midwifery?

These communities exist in the US as well.

Yeah, I've lived near Amish and Amish-type colonies and have seen what and how they trade, and I know people who have been hired by them, including renting ag machinery and harvesting services to them (combines, tractors, augers, etc.). I've heard of the complex tricks and technicalities that such groups will employ to make use of things that they're prohibited from using. They are not independent and self-sufficient.

J

[Jonathan]

Actually, I've known many more leftists who were truly self-suffient than nut job conservative doomsday preppers who were. The lefty hippies actually independently produced their own food, clothing, etc., where the right-wing paranoid pretender preppers were totally dependent on society and just bought all of their prepper goods from the system that they claimed to oppose. In fact, all of the loony right-wing conspiracy preachers of imminent doom that I've known made their money by complying with, and even taking great advantage of, government's licensing or otherwise regulating their chosen professions and industries. I think the same is probably true of Apey Greg.

J

Your attitude is your own self inflicted obstacle to success in life.

Greg

You're the most ridiculously stupid person I've ever met.

J

Yeah, that's the attitude that sabotages your life... and you do it to yourself.

Greg

Imagine if Apey Greg, with his illogical, consequent-affirming, reality-denying mindset, had not been restrained by the licensing procedures, controls and regulations that govern his profession. Imagine if he had been allowed to apply his kooky, half-baked methods of "thinking" to the practice of electricity, rather than being forced to comply with his state's codes, regulations and standards and practices!

And when his methods did not mesh with reality, imagine the evasions and excuses that he would employ:

"That lady wasn't shocked to death due to my personal wiring theory being wrong, but because the electricity recognized that she was a leftist feminist who deserved to be jolted!"

J

[Selene]

These communities exist in the US as well.

Yeah, I've lived near Amish and Amish-type colonies and have seen what and how they trade, and I know people who have been hired by them, including renting ag machinery and harvesting services to them (combines, tractors, augers, etc.). I've heard of the complex tricks and technicalities that such groups will employ to make use of things that they're prohibited from using. They are not independent and self-sufficient.

J

And some of them who are even more removed and less structurally religious are as self sufficient as some of the "left" communes that I have meandered through.

A...

[Brant Gaede]

Electricians made those codes and regulations or modified them into a practically useful form. Those regulations did not make the electricians who were trained by other electricians. What we have going here is uniformity of standards and effective guild exclusionaryism. You aren't going to become a licensed electrician unless you can get an apprenticeship. (NY State.) Such are some of the pluses and minuses of licensing. In a sense government licensing is competency welfare to the purchaser of the electrical work. If electricians were not licensed by the government then insurance companies would demand proof of competency before making a contract for homeowners' insurance and so the homeowner would too demand evidence of well done work and professional competency.

The major risk is fire followed by the need to tear out finished construction work to put in proper wiring. I once met a doctor having a new home built. He had to have all the drywall taken down because the house was wired with the wrong gauge. Cost, $20,000. (It was a large house.)

I'm so radical on licensing I don't think doctors should be government licensed. As a pilot, however, I take pause at objecting to federal regulation of airplanes and pilots. A huge reason air-travel is so safe is uniformity of standards. There is an art to flying, but the bigger the machine the less the art and, in commercial aviation, the higher the safety. Before you jump into that small, private airplane check your life insurance policy. You're probably not covered. You have seven times the life risk than driving your car on a per mile calculated basis. There are all kinds of ways the private pilot can mitigate that risk, but the more mitigation the less usefulness. Theoretically such a pilot can train to such a high level of proficiency overall safety in all conditions is then limited by the equipment itself. The big jump up in safety then would be propellers to jets. That didn't save Thurman Munson, who as a pilot was a hell of a baseball player.

--Brant

[Selene]

That didn't save Thurman Munson, who as a pilot was a hell of a baseball player.

--Brant

[Selene]

That didn't save Thurman Munson, who as a pilot was a hell of a baseball player.

--Brant

Good point Brant.

I was listening to Rubio this weekend make a very compelling argument for the complete dismantaling of the educational accredation scheme.

His approach is to open up the credentialing system to free market competition. Additionally, "credits" for what you have already accomplished.

A soldier who comes back from driving military trucks should not have to go to truck driving school to get a CDL,

A...

[moralist]

You can take a leftist out of a slum...

...but you can't take the slum out of a leftist.

Greg

New Dan, October 18, 1859,

Dear Greg Moralist...

Michael, You're making the same mistake as the feminized leftists, by artificially injecting race into what is a purely moral issue in an attempt to obfuscate it.

Now all that's left for you to do is to call me a "racist" to be true to form... or any of the other overused leftist epithets.

Greg

[syrakusos]

I'm so radical on licensing I don't think doctors should be government licensed. As a pilot, however, I take pause at objecting to federal regulation of airplanes and pilots. A huge reason air-travel is so safe is uniformity of standards. There is an art to flying, but the bigger the machine the less the art and, in commercial aviation, the higher the safety. Before you jump into that small, private airplane check your life insurance policy. You're probably not covered. You have seven times the life risk than driving your car on a per mile calculated basis.

--Brant

Back in the 90s when I was flying, I went to a local FAA meeting on safety. One of the FAA representatives said that their goal was to have half the pilots in Alaska licensed by the end of the century. You do not need any license to fly point to point on your own property and here in Texas and the West generally, you might do that.

Also, you probably know that more pilots were killed learning to recover from spins than were killed in actual spins, so that was taken out of the basic certification and added to the advanced certifications. But the fact remains that students pilot were killed (unnecessarily) to meet federal regulations.

[Brant Gaede]

I'm so radical on licensing I don't think doctors should be government licensed. As a pilot, however, I take pause at objecting to federal regulation of airplanes and pilots. A huge reason air-travel is so safe is uniformity of standards. There is an art to flying, but the bigger the machine the less the art and, in commercial aviation, the higher the safety. Before you jump into that small, private airplane check your life insurance policy. You're probably not covered. You have seven times the life risk than driving your car on a per mile calculated basis.

--Brant

Back in the 90s when I was flying, I went to a local FAA meeting on safety. One of the FAA representatives said that their goal was to have half the pilots in Alaska licensed by the end of the century. You do not need any license to fly point to point on your own property and here in Texas and the West generally, you might do that.

Also, you probably know that more pilots were killed learning to recover from spins than were killed in actual spins, so that was taken out of the basic certification and added to the advanced certifications. But the fact remains that students pilot were killed (unnecessarily) to meet federal regulations.

I knew that but my instructor and I--at my request--did spins anyway. It was a blast. But what advanced certifications require spins? Commercial?

Point to point on your own property? First I heard. Why nor from your property to your neighbors'? Or private property to private property? Something doesn't ring quite right.

Alaskan flying is especially difficult. Maybe the FAA guy was counting on attrition.

--Brant

[Peter]

Jonathan wrote: I've heard of the complex tricks and technicalities that such groups will employ to make use of things that they're prohibited from using. They are not independent and self-sufficient. end quote

They are a hybrid. Recently I went on a trip to Amish Country to see the stage play, Josiah for President, about an Amish man improbably being elected President. He needed to make a lot of compromises and his bishop never approved of his seeking office. One interesting touch was that in his familys living quarters in the White House they did not use electricity and raised chickens. I enjoyed the songs and the performers were excellent.

If you are cruising north along The Lincoln Highway in Lancaster and take a right onto Ronks Road you will see Amish renting and living next door to non Amish. Most of the Amish had electrical wires leading to their houses though they dont plug anything into the sockets. Amish farms do not have electrical wires leading to their houses. It is fun to watch younger Amish men using horses to bale hay. They are surprisingly quick at the job and built like male models.

We have Amish men trucked in to do work around Delmarva where I live. They are paid in cash. It seemed they had a blanket per hour rate and years ago it was 10 bucks and then 12 but I do not know what their rate is now. I just had a new shed, constructed by the Amish, delivered to my house. They do benefit from modern ways even if they do not deliberately seek it out.

[moralist]

They are a hybrid. Recently I went on a trip to Amish Country to see the stage play, Josiah for President, about an Amish man improbably being elected President. He needed to make a lot of compromises and his bishop never approved of his seeking office. One interesting touch was that in his familys living quarters in the White House they did not use electricity and raised chickens. I enjoyed the songs and the performers were excellent.

If you are cruising north along The Lincoln Highway in Lancaster and take a right onto Ronks Road you will see Amish renting and living next door to non Amish. Most of the Amish had electrical wires leading to their houses though they dont plug anything into the sockets. Amish farms do not have electrical wires leading to their houses. It is fun to watch younger Amish men using horses to bale hay. They are surprisingly quick at the job and built like male models.

We have Amish men trucked in to do work around Delmarva where I live. They are paid in cash. It seemed they had a blanket per hour rate and years ago it was 10 bucks and then 12 but I do not know what their rate is now. I just had a new shed, constructed by the Amish, delivered to my house. They do benefit from modern ways even if they do not deliberately seek it out.

Yes. The Amish are quite an example of American religious independence. There's no such thing as "total self sufficiency". There are however many beneficial combinations.which make use of public infrastructure of which everyone pays taxes for their share of use.

It is possible to live a good life without...

...government guaranteed mortgages, government student loans, government veterans benefits, government insurance, government disability, government healthcare, government subsidized utility bills, government housing, government food, or any of the other myriad government transfer of wealth benefits programs.

What people don't realize is that ALL of these come with the strings of government bureaucratic control firmly tied to them with big complicated knots..

So if anyone wants the government intruding into their life to control them... just take what the government offers and you will have it.

And if anyone wants the government to leave them alone to live their life as they see fit...

...learn how to live like an American so as NOT to need anything they offer... so you DON'T take anything they offer.

Greg

[Mikee]

Greg,

Do you use Medicare? Or Social Security? Civil courts? Or ever call the police? Or can you imagine a situation where you would use any of these?

[you did say anything] [with emphasis]

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

I came across this article yesterday and it seems pertinent to this discussion.

This map shows the US really has 11 separate 'nations' with entirely different cultures
by Matthew Speiser
Jul. 27, 2015
Business Insider

Here is the map:



This article is based on the following book and I just got it.

American Nations: A History of the Eleven Rival Regional Cultures of North America Paperback by Colin Woodard

From the article:

Here's how Woodard describes each nation:

Yankeedom

Encompassing the entire Northeast north of New York City and spreading through Michigan, Wisconsin, and Minnesota, Yankeedom values education, intellectual achievement, communal empowerment, and citizen participation in government as a shield against tyranny. Yankees are comfortable with government regulation. Woodard notes that Yankees have a "Utopian streak." The area was settled by radical Calvinists.

New Netherland

A highly commercial culture, New Netherland is "materialistic, with a profound tolerance for ethnic and religious diversity and an unflinching commitment to the freedom of inquiry and conscience," according to Woodard. It is a natural ally with Yankeedom and encompasses New York City and northern New Jersey. The area was settled by the Dutch.

The Midlands

Settled by English Quakers, The Midlands are a welcoming middle-class society that spawned the culture of the "American Heartland." Political opinion is moderate, and government regulation is frowned upon. Woodard calls the ethnically diverse Midlands "America's great swing region." Within the Midlands are parts of New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Missouri, Iowa, Kansas, and Nebraska.

Tidewater

Tidewater was built by the young English gentry in the area around the Chesapeake Bay and North Carolina. Starting as a feudal society that embraced slavery, the region places a high value on respect for authority and tradition. Woodard notes that Tidewater is in decline, partly because "it has been eaten away by the expanding federal halos around D.C. and Norfolk."

Greater Appalachia


Colonized by settlers from the war-ravaged borderlands of Northern Ireland, northern England, and the Scottish lowlands, Greater Appalachia is stereotyped as the land of hillbillies and rednecks. Woodard says Appalachia values personal sovereignty and individual liberty and is "intensely suspicious of lowland aristocrats and Yankee social engineers alike." It sides with the Deep South to counter the influence of federal government. Within Greater Appalachia are parts of Kentucky, Tennessee, West Virginia, Arkansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Indiana, Illinois, and Texas.

Deep South

The Deep South was established by English slave lords from Barbados and was styled as a West Indies-style slave society, Woodard notes. It has a very rigid social structure and fights against government regulation that threatens individual liberty. Alabama, Florida, Mississippi, Texas, Georgia, and South Carolina are all part of the Deep South.

El Norte

Composed of the borderlands of the Spanish-American empire, El Norte is "a place apart" from the rest of America, according to Woodard. Hispanic culture dominates in the area, and the region values independence, self-sufficiency, and hard work above all else. Parts of Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, and California are in El Norte.

The Left Coast

Colonized by New Englanders and Appalachian Midwesterners, the Left Coast is a hybrid of "Yankee utopianism and Appalachian self-expression and exploration," Woodard says, adding that it is the staunchest ally of Yankeedom. Coastal California, Oregon, and Washington are in the Left Coast.

The Far West

The conservative west. Developed through large investment in industry, yet where inhabitants continue to "resent" the Eastern interests that initially controlled that investment. Among Far West states are Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, Utah, Washington, Oregon, North Dakota, South Dakota, Colorado, Nevada, Utah, Nebraska, Kansas, Arizona, New Mexico, and California.

New France

A pocket of liberalism nestled in the Deep South, its people are consensus driven, tolerant, and comfortable with government involvement in the economy. Woodard says New France is among the most liberal places in North America. New France is focused around New Orleans in Louisiana as well as the Canadian province of Quebec.

First Nation

Made up of Native Americans, the First Nation's members enjoy tribal sovereignty in the US. Woodard says the territory of the First Nations is huge, but its population is under 300,000, most of whose people live in the northern reaches of Canada.

Woodard says that among these 11 nations, Yankeedom and the Deep South exert the most influence and are constantly competing with each other for the hearts and minds of the other nations.

I like the idea of looking at America through a lens like this. It sure beats the hell out of the current mainstream versions of black versus white, or Democrat versus Republican, or the "enlightened intelligentsia" versus the "stupid American masses," or any other oversimplified and false dichotomy to explain everyone.

Speiser is painting with a really broad brush, so it is easy to poke holes by pointing to exceptions. However, I want to do a deep dive in this perspective rather than dismiss it without thinking much about it. My gut tells me Speiser is on to something. Especially since one of the cornerstones of his approach is history, i.e., the cultural profiles of the different settlers and how they morphed over the years.

Maybe I will agree with him in the end (or a lot of what he says), maybe not, but I have little doubt I will be richer for looking.

Michael

[moralist]

Greg,

Do you use Medicare?

Nope.

Don't need it.

Don't want it.

Or Social Security?

SS, yes... no SSI disability.

Being self employed it's a double share of my own money taken away from my earnings for over 45 years.

If I can get back one measly inflated dime on the dollar, I'll be happy!

Civil courts?

Hell, no.

I scrupulously avoid the government legal system at all costs.

It's a pit of slithering deceitful vipers.

Or ever call the police?

No.

Only two Sheriffs out here,

but we've never needed them

as there's basically no crime where we live.

Or can you imagine a situation where you would use any of these?

No.

But remember, whether or not I choose to use those services, my business income taxes, property taxes, vehicle taxes, and sales taxes have already paid for my share of their use.

Greg

[Brant Gaede]

Since you get SS you are automatically eligible for Medicare A--hospital, if you are 65 or over. Upon admittance the hospital will immediately make sure you have it. There's no avoiding this even if you give them a wad of cash. This is because they cannot charge you a penny more anyway than Medicare pays by law and they will literally give you your money back if only to avoid a book-keeping hassle or nightmare for you, the exception. I suppose if they can't ID you as over 65, you can lie and say you're 63.

Then come all the doctor bills since you don't have the optional part B. Both A and B the copays are a bitch. Say "bankruptcy." I'd guess 50% of medical costs come to us through government involvement in medicine--probably more if you think it thru in detail.

There are ways around this, but they all demand acting before you need it.

As for SS, the money you paid in went out the back door immediately. You aren't getting any of that back. You are getting a government "benefit" to which you have no real property right in. No big deal. It's not a Ponzi scheme for they put a gun to your head. Mr. Ponzi was much more moral than the government. That's why Rand ranked the private "looters" in AS higher than Wesley Mouch and his associates.

--Brant

[moralist]

Since you get SS you are automatically eligible for Medicare A--hospital, if you are 65 or over. Upon admittance the hospital will immediately make sure you have it.

I wouldn't be caught dead in a pathogen infested hospital.

Greg

[Brant Gaede]

Since you get SS you are automatically eligible for Medicare A--hospital, if you are 65 or over. Upon admittance the hospital will immediately make sure you have it.

I wouldn't be caught dead in a pathogen infested hospital.

Greg

But you might wake up in one.

Going to a roach motel?

Using vitamin C in an IV drip would stop a lot of infection problems and operative and post-operative complications like heart attack and stroke. Not a generally accepted practice.

Mersa have mercy on me!

--Brant

[moralist]

I'm gonna live till I die... without being ground up for fodder in the liberal healthcare bureaucracy.

Greg