syrakusos

You Must Abandon Civilization Now! by Jeremiah the American

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July 26, 1849 at New Dan in the Rocky Mountains

Philadelphia and New York reek of pestilence. Boston is already a hellhole of filthy immigrants. The health and sanitation department is overwhelmed. In addition to the over 37,000 Irish in Boston, another 52,000 have invaded New York City with no end in sight. As in Boston, they swarm into teeming, pestilent hovels, and infect the city with their diseases, their ignorance, and their pagan Roman Popery. It is all too easy to predict the future downfall of the once-great American Republic.

The turmoil in Europe will bring an army of Jews who preach communism and practice merchandizing. They will infest New York, continue to St. Louis, and even settle in Albuquerque. In every city - Boston, New York, Baltimore, Charleston, Albany, Buffalo, Cleveland, and Cincinnati - they will establish synagogues within their secretive enclaves and begin breeding more of their kind.

Eventually, the vermin from the underbelly of Europe will follow their Popish Irish vanguard and by the end of the century an invasion of Italians will begin until 20 million are on our shore.

Jews and Italians will sit on the Supreme Court. An Irish Catholic will become President of the United States. The Constitution will be amended into a shambles. Then will come the great Negro Rebellion instigated by the moneyed banking Jews of New York City. Former slaves will invade America's cities, living in festering, swelling urban decay, drinking and dancing and generating countless offspring for generations to come. Negroes will sit on the Supreme Court. An African will become President of the United States. Mexican immigration will be next and Mexicans will be elected to high office. The next invasion will come from across the Pacific with millions of Chinamen swarming the coasts from British Columbia to California. They will bring opium and other evils too evil to mention. That will stop all White settlement in the West. Within 100 years, the White Anglo-Saxon Protestant American will be a rare creature.

The disease, crime, and moral degradation will cut in half the average lifespan of the city dweller. City dwellers will be reduced to eating dead horses as great famines sweep the land caused by the collapse of agriculture when slaves abandon hard work for carefree lives lined up at the troughs of public charity. Invention and enterprise will cease and the former American Republic will be drowned forever in an Eternal Dark Age of Popery, Jewery, and Dominance by the Brown, Black, and Yellow Races.

But you can save yourself. Here, in a secret location, high and deep within the Rocky Mountains, I am building a new life for myself. I plant my own crops, raise my own animals, mine my own ores, smelt my own metals, forge my own tools, melt my own glass, tan my own hides, weave my own fabrics, build my own simple contrivances, tend my own medical needs, explore my own science, enjoy my own art, create my own gold coins to buy the things I make, and live my own life in full, free, and open liberty. You should do this too. If you do not, then may God have mercy on your soul.

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Your great grandfather wrote this?

Wonderful find, but why is it in the "Humor" section?

--Brant

he underestimated, by emphasis, the Mexicans--and knew not the perils of Arab Islamists

here's the biggie he could not and did not predict:

https://youtu.be/rMdC45S79uQ

https://youtu.be/kCppUtS9vLk

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I just finished the latest Spencer For Hire book (now written with the same characters and very well done by Ace Adkins). It depicts the corruption found in Boston and its suburbs. I would not want to live there. What a hellhole.

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July 26, 1849 at New Dan in the Rocky Mountains

But you can save yourself. Here, in a secret location, high and deep within the Rocky Mountains, I am building a new life for myself. I plant my own crops, raise my own animals, mine my own ores, smelt my own metals, forge my own tools, melt my own glass, tan my own hides, weave my own fabrics, build my own simple contrivances, tend my own medical needs, explore my own science, enjoy my own art, create my own gold coins to buy the things I make, and live my own life in full, free, and open liberty. You should do this too. If you do not, then may God have mercy on your soul.

A very Gregorian statement, our Greg not the chant dude...

Did they have Section 8 housing in Boston and New York? I was not aware of that.

Did they have a Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act [PPACA] way back then?

My people could not find any food stamp outlets in Manhattan in 1903.

Also could not find any stores that said, in large letters, we accept WIC?

Maybe that is why you put it in humor?

A...

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Striking satire, MM. The sky is falling. And falling. And falling.

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July 26, 1849 at New Dan in the Rocky Mountains

But you can save yourself. Here, in a secret location, high and deep within the Rocky Mountains, I am building a new life for myself. I plant my own crops, raise my own animals, mine my own ores, smelt my own metals, forge my own tools, melt my own glass, tan my own hides, weave my own fabrics, build my own simple contrivances, tend my own medical needs, explore my own science, enjoy my own art, create my own gold coins to buy the things I make, and live my own life in full, free, and open liberty. You should do this too. If you do not, then may God have mercy on your soul.

A very Gregorian statement, our Greg not the chant dude...

The concept of self sufficiency is obsolete and its only use for feminized leftists is jokes! :laugh:

However, to American pioneers it was the difference between life and death. So they did for themselves everything they could, and traded with others for the things they couldn't.

Adam, you correctly noted the absence of any mention of government. That is due to the refusal of leftists to acknowledge the economic and social problems created by their own benefits dispensing bureaucracy in cities such as Detroit, for example.

depressed-detroit-_2622246k.jpg

You can take a leftist out of a slum...

...but you can't take the slum out of a leftist.

Greg

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Actually, I've known many more leftists who were truly self-suffient than nut job conservative doomsday preppers who were. The lefty hippies actually independently produced their own food, clothing, etc., where the right-wing paranoid pretender preppers were totally dependent on society and just bought all of their prepper goods from the system that they claimed to oppose. In fact, all of the loony right-wing conspiracy preachers of imminent doom that I've known made their money by complying with, and even taking great advantage of, government's licensing or otherwise regulating their chosen professions and industries. I think the same is probably true of Apey Greg.

J

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July 26, 1849 at New Dan in the Rocky Mountains

But you can save yourself. Here, in a secret location, high and deep within the Rocky Mountains, I am building a new life for myself. I plant my own crops, raise my own animals, mine my own ores, smelt my own metals, forge my own tools, melt my own glass, tan my own hides, weave my own fabrics, build my own simple contrivances, tend my own medical needs, explore my own science, enjoy my own art, create my own gold coins to buy the things I make, and live my own life in full, free, and open liberty. You should do this too. If you do not, then may God have mercy on your soul.

A very Gregorian statement, our Greg not the chant dude...

The concept of self sufficiency is obsolete and its only use for feminized leftists is jokes! :laugh:

However, to American pioneers it was the difference between life and death. So they did for themselves everything they could, and traded with others for the things they couldn't.

Adam, you correctly noted the absence of any mention of government. That is due to the refusal of leftists to acknowledge the economic and social problems created by their own benefits dispensing bureaucracy in cities such as Detroit, for example.

depressed-detroit-_2622246k.jpg

You can take a leftist out of a slum...

...but you can't take the slum out of a leftist.

Greg

It hurts to see my old home like this.

--Brant

how did you find it?

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Actually, I've known many more leftists who were truly self-suffient than nut job conservative doomsday preppers who were. The lefty hippies actually independently produced their own food, clothing, etc., where the right-wing paranoid pretender preppers were totally dependent on society and just bought all of their prepper goods from the system that they claimed to oppose. In fact, all of the loony right-wing conspiracy preachers of imminent doom that I've known made their money by complying with, and even taking great advantage of, government's licensing or otherwise regulating their chosen professions and industries. I think the same is probably true of Apey Greg.

J

Apples and oranges. What happens when the SHTF? No one knows except for what happened in New Orleans when Katrina hit. I'm betting on the people who got out of town, not those who couldn't because they had no cars or enough brains or independence of thought.

--Brant

gotta get a car

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Actually, I've known many more leftists who were truly self-suffient than nut job conservative doomsday preppers who were. The lefty hippies actually independently produced their own food, clothing, etc., where the right-wing paranoid pretender preppers were totally dependent on society and just bought all of their prepper goods from the system that they claimed to oppose. In fact, all of the loony right-wing conspiracy preachers of imminent doom that I've known made their money by complying with, and even taking great advantage of, government's licensing or otherwise regulating their chosen professions and industries. I think the same is probably true of Apey Greg.

J

This is absolutely inaccurate and I have worked with both groups.

Frankly, your testimonial is just that, a testimonial.

The Amish are a clear example of not being "nut job conservative doomsday preppers."

A...

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Apples and oranges. What happens when the SHTF? No one knows except for what happened in New Orleans when Katrina hit. I'm betting on the people who got out of town, not those who couldn't because they had no cars or enough brains or independence of thought.

--Brant

gotta get a car

Would it make sense to leave New Orleans in 2000 because Katrina was coming in 2005?

I do grant that cities have cultures. On RoR, I took flak for an essay that contrasted the Big Apple on 9/11 with the Big Easy in the last week of August 2005.

My old neighborhood in Cleveland went through a decline in the 70s and 80s… and 90s… but then it gentrified to meet the needs of the huge Metropolitan General Hospital complex. That is on the West Side. The Cleveland Clinic is on the East Side. They compete against places the Mayo Clinic in the socialist hellhole of Minneapolis. When you need a new heart valve in Greg's Gulch, is he going to pound one out on his anvil for you?

Austin is not Detroit. Minneapolis is not Charleston. San Francisco is not only not Los Angeles, it is not Portland, Oregon or Portland, Maine. In The Economy of Cities, Jane Jacobs wrote about the broad vitality of urbanism. She also contrasted the failure of Manchester with the success of Birmingham.

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Apples and oranges. What happens when the SHTF? No one knows except for what happened in New Orleans when Katrina hit. I'm betting on the people who got out of town, not those who couldn't because they had no cars or enough brains or independence of thought.

--Brant

gotta get a car

Would it make sense to leave New Orleans in 2000 because Katrina was coming in 2005?

We can thus assume you don't know the answer, but you want to create the presumption I don't either--and to a 2000 unknowable 2005?

--Brant

it depended mostly if you lived above or below a levee and I said nothing about 2000--it was knowing the storm was coming, like the next damn day

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Did they have Section 8 housing in Boston and New York? I was not aware of that.

Did they have a Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act [PPACA] way back then?

My people could not find any food stamp outlets in Manhattan in 1903.

Also could not find any stores that said, in large letters, we accept WIC?

Maybe that is why you put it in humor?

A...

The roughest welcome of all would be in Boston, Massachusetts, an Anglo-Saxon city with a population of about 115,000. ... their city was undergoing nothing short of an unwanted "social revolution" as described by Ephraim Peabody, member of an old Yankee family. In 1847, the first big year of Famine emigration, the city was swamped with 37,000 Irish Catholics arriving by sea and land.

And once again, they fell victim to unscrupulous landlords. This time it was Boston landlords who sub-divided former Yankee dwellings into cheap housing, charging Irish families up to $1.50 a week to live in a single nine-by-eleven foot room with no water, sanitation, ventilation or daylight.

In Boston, as well as other American cities in the mid-1800s, there was no enforcement of sanitary regulations and no building or fire safety codes. Landlords could do as they pleased. A single family three-story house along the waterfront that once belonged to a prosperous Yankee merchant could be divided-up room by room into housing for a hundred Irish, bringing a nice profit.

The overflow Irish would settle into the gardens, back yards and alleys surrounding the house, living in wooden shacks. Demand for housing of any quality was extraordinary. People lived in musty cellars with low ceilings that partially flooded with every tide. Old warehouses and other buildings within the Irish enclave were hastily converted into rooming houses using flimsy wooden partitions that provided no privacy.

A Boston Committee of Internal Health studying the situation described the resulting Irish slum as "a perfect hive of human beings, without comforts and mostly without common necessaries; in many cases huddled together like brutes, without regard to age or sex or sense of decency. Under such circumstances self-respect, forethought, all the high and noble virtues soon die out, and sullen indifference and despair or disorder, intemperance and utter degradation reign supreme."

The unsanitary conditions were breeding grounds for disease, particularly cholera. Sixty percent of the Irish children born in Boston during this period didn't live to see their sixth birthday. Adult Irish lived on average just six years after stepping off the boat onto American soil.

[…]

Immediately upon arrival in New York harbor, they were met by Irishmen known as 'runners' speaking in Gaelic and promising to 'help' their fellow countrymen. Many of the new arrivals, quite frightened at the mere prospect of America, gladly accepted. Those who hesitated were usually bullied into submission. The runner's first con was to suggest a good place to stay in New York; a boarding house operated by a friend, supposedly with good meals and comfortable rooms at very affordable rates, including free storage of any luggage.

The boarding houses were actually filthy hell-holes in lower Manhattan. Instead of comfortable rooms, the confused arrivals were shoved into vermin-infested hovels with eight or ten other unfortunate souls, at prices three or four times higher than what they had been told. They remained as 'boarders' until their money ran out at which time their luggage was confiscated for back-rent and they were tossed out into the streets, homeless and penniless.

[…]

The penniless Irish who remained in Manhattan stayed crowded together close to the docks where they sought work as unskilled dock workers. They found cheap housing wherever they could, with many families living in musty cellars. Abandoned houses near the waterfront that once belonged to wealthy merchants were converted into crowded tenements. Shoddy wooded tenements also sprang up overnight ...

See much more here (where the consequential crime is also discussed): http://www.historyplace.com/worldhistory/famine/america.htm

And, as Jeremiah predicted, the Irish wormed their way into America, first taking over the police departments, and the Army, and eventually placing one of their own in the White House.

And then came the Italians.

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here's the biggie he could not and did not predict:

[links to Mars Attacks]

Well said. Xenophobia and illegal aliens play out in science fiction, of course, but only because they are expressions of these basic fears. It is known that in the 1920s, many German Jews who had served in the war joined right wing groups like the NSDAP in reaction to the influx of immigrants who were Eastern Jews. The last group to arrive always wants to close the door on the next one trying to get in.

When I worked at Kawasaki, many of the Japanese were less than sanguine about having to go home when their rotation was up. The company treasurer suggested that there exists a kind of "international people" from all over, going all over, but different from the people they left behind. I believe that immigrants are like that, generally, they made an extraordinary effort that those who stayed behind would not.

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You can take a leftist out of a slum...

...but you can't take the slum out of a leftist.

Greg

New Dan, October 18, 1859,

Dear Greg Moralist,

Your letter arrived yesterday just ahead of the first big snow to close the passes. I will post it in the Spring, though we may have a thaw after this. I assume that you saw one of the advertisements that I placed in newspapers in Albany, Buffalo, Cleveland, and other cities. I do not know what a "slum" or a "leftist" would be, but I recognize the Negro and burned out hulk of what appeared to be a modernistic home.

Let me assure you that you are not alone in replying. In the past two years several dozen families have found their way to the general area. We are spread out over an area surpassing a hundred square miles. The community is thriving as we plant our own crops, tend our own livestock, mill our own grains, cobble our own shoes, dress our own wounds, and bury our own dead.

Please be assured that we have no Negroes in New Dan. They have no place in our society. We have no need for slavery because we plant our own crops, tend our own livesto. We do not want their shiftless, aimless, craftiness for thievery and worse. We have no Chinamen or Redskins. We did have two families and some individual squarehead Swedes, but they proved to be communards which is the common state of Scandinavia with its degenerate monarchies and degenerate breeding pools of stultified serfs. As a result, all of us are hard-working, White Anglo-Saxon Protestant Americans.

Some of the latest arrivals told of railroads being laid West of the Mississippi. We hardly believed them. What purpose a railroad could serve except to scare cows and chickens with its hellish noise and infernal smoke is beyond me. I look forward to your arrival, should you choose to join us. I would be pleased to show you the new axle that I just turned. I will bet that I can ride it 25 miles before it needs to be redressed with bear fat.

May God Speed You and Keep You,

Jeremiah

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When you need a new heart valve in Greg's Gulch, is he going to pound one out on his anvil for you?

People who take decent care of the body God gave them won't need new heart valves. Most disease is behaviorally self inflicted, notably by diet.

Greg

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Did they have Section 8 housing in Boston and New York? I was not aware of that.

Did they have a Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act [PPACA] way back then?

My people could not find any food stamp outlets in Manhattan in 1903.

Also could not find any stores that said, in large letters, we accept WIC?

Maybe that is why you put it in humor?

A...

The roughest welcome of all would be in Boston, Massachusetts, an Anglo-Saxon city with a population of about 115,000. ... their city was undergoing nothing short of an unwanted "social revolution" as described by Ephraim Peabody, member of an old Yankee family. In 1847, the first big year of Famine emigration, the city was swamped with 37,000 Irish Catholics arriving by sea and land.

And once again, they fell victim to unscrupulous landlords. This time it was Boston landlords who sub-divided former Yankee dwellings into cheap housing, charging Irish families up to $1.50 a week to live in a single nine-by-eleven foot room with no water, sanitation, ventilation or daylight.

In Boston, as well as other American cities in the mid-1800s, there was no enforcement of sanitary regulations and no building or fire safety codes. Landlords could do as they pleased. A single family three-story house along the waterfront that once belonged to a prosperous Yankee merchant could be divided-up room by room into housing for a hundred Irish, bringing a nice profit.

The overflow Irish would settle into the gardens, back yards and alleys surrounding the house, living in wooden shacks. Demand for housing of any quality was extraordinary. People lived in musty cellars with low ceilings that partially flooded with every tide. Old warehouses and other buildings within the Irish enclave were hastily converted into rooming houses using flimsy wooden partitions that provided no privacy.

A Boston Committee of Internal Health studying the situation described the resulting Irish slum as "a perfect hive of human beings, without comforts and mostly without common necessaries; in many cases huddled together like brutes, without regard to age or sex or sense of decency. Under such circumstances self-respect, forethought, all the high and noble virtues soon die out, and sullen indifference and despair or disorder, intemperance and utter degradation reign supreme."

The unsanitary conditions were breeding grounds for disease, particularly cholera. Sixty percent of the Irish children born in Boston during this period didn't live to see their sixth birthday. Adult Irish lived on average just six years after stepping off the boat onto American soil.

[…]

Immediately upon arrival in New York harbor, they were met by Irishmen known as 'runners' speaking in Gaelic and promising to 'help' their fellow countrymen. Many of the new arrivals, quite frightened at the mere prospect of America, gladly accepted. Those who hesitated were usually bullied into submission. The runner's first con was to suggest a good place to stay in New York; a boarding house operated by a friend, supposedly with good meals and comfortable rooms at very affordable rates, including free storage of any luggage.

The boarding houses were actually filthy hell-holes in lower Manhattan. Instead of comfortable rooms, the confused arrivals were shoved into vermin-infested hovels with eight or ten other unfortunate souls, at prices three or four times higher than what they had been told. They remained as 'boarders' until their money ran out at which time their luggage was confiscated for back-rent and they were tossed out into the streets, homeless and penniless.

[…]

The penniless Irish who remained in Manhattan stayed crowded together close to the docks where they sought work as unskilled dock workers. They found cheap housing wherever they could, with many families living in musty cellars. Abandoned houses near the waterfront that once belonged to wealthy merchants were converted into crowded tenements. Shoddy wooded tenements also sprang up overnight ...

See much more here (where the consequential crime is also discussed): http://www.historyplace.com/worldhistory/famine/america.htm

And, as Jeremiah predicted, the Irish wormed their way into America, first taking over the police departments, and the Army, and eventually placing one of their own in the White House.

And then came the Italians.

How did America's immigration pattern compare to other countries in the world's immigration pattern at that same time?

You are aware that other Irish, Italian, Polish and other immigrants did not have these experiences, correct?

The slums that you described still helped you to stay alive.

Back in the old country, the situation was horrific.

You seemed to have skipped that part of the story of Irish immigration to Boston and New York, etc.:

...in 1847, Boston's leading citizens held a meeting at Fanueil Hall in response to news of the famine devastating Ireland. With the failure of the potato crop several years in a row, tens of thousands of Irish peasants were suffering from malnutrition, disease, and exposure. Between 1847 and 1851, 1,000,000 Irish men, women, and children died.

The prior Irish Catholic immigrants had established themselves.

In the U.S., Irish Catholic immigrant communities were the first to respond to the crisis. As early as December 1845, Father Thomas O'Flaherty, a parish priest in Salem, set up an Irish Charitable Relief Fund. By the following summer, American Catholics were sending considerable sums of money to Ireland. In December 1846, the Quakers launched a well-organized relief operation. But most Americans expected the potato blight to be a short-term problem; the new crop would surely restore Ireland and the Irish to health.

The influx of poor and desperate people that arrived in that 1847 were fleeing from death my friend.

By the summer of 1847, Americans had sent over $500,000 and many thousands of tons of supplies to Ireland. Hopes for a good harvest did not materialize. The suffering continued. Anyone who could leave Ireland did. In 1847, the worst year of the famine, the Irish-born population of Boston swelled by more than 13,000. On a single day in April, over 1,000 Irish immigrants arrived at the port of Boston.

http://www.massmoments.org/moment.cfm?mid=56

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Actually, I've known many more leftists who were truly self-suffient than nut job conservative doomsday preppers who were. The lefty hippies actually independently produced their own food, clothing, etc., where the right-wing paranoid pretender preppers were totally dependent on society and just bought all of their prepper goods from the system that they claimed to oppose. In fact, all of the loony right-wing conspiracy preachers of imminent doom that I've known made their money by complying with, and even taking great advantage of, government's licensing or otherwise regulating their chosen professions and industries. I think the same is probably true of Apey Greg.

J

Your attitude is your own self inflicted obstacle to success in life.

Greg

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What happens when the SHTF? No one knows except for what happened in New Orleans when Katrina hit.

Yeah, they know all right. The fools ended up being crammed into a stadium waiting for government water and government buses. Now how demeaning is that?

The thing about disasters is that they are never uniform. Some areas can be totally devastated while other places are unscathed. This makes SHTF a moving target and nigh impossible to predict the effects because they are proprietary to location...

...but it's fun to try anyways. :wink:

Greg

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Actually, I've known many more leftists who were truly self-suffient than nut job conservative doomsday preppers who were. The lefty hippies actually independently produced their own food, clothing, etc., where the right-wing paranoid pretender preppers were totally dependent on society and just bought all of their prepper goods from the system that they claimed to oppose. In fact, all of the loony right-wing conspiracy preachers of imminent doom that I've known made their money by complying with, and even taking great advantage of, government's licensing or otherwise regulating their chosen professions and industries. I think the same is probably true of Apey Greg.

J

Your attitude is your own self inflicted obstacle to success in life.

Greg

You're the most ridiculously stupid person I've ever met.

J

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Actually, I've known many more leftists who were truly self-suffient than nut job conservative doomsday preppers who were. The lefty hippies actually independently produced their own food, clothing, etc., where the right-wing paranoid pretender preppers were totally dependent on society and just bought all of their prepper goods from the system that they claimed to oppose. In fact, all of the loony right-wing conspiracy preachers of imminent doom that I've known made their money by complying with, and even taking great advantage of, government's licensing or otherwise regulating their chosen professions and industries. I think the same is probably true of Apey Greg.

J

This is absolutely inaccurate and I have worked with both groups.

Frankly, your testimonial is just that, a testimonial.

The Amish are a clear example of not being "nut job conservative doomsday preppers."

Yet your bizarre labeling of folks that you do not like is incredibly glaring in your syntax.

A...

Bullshit. I don't think you have any real experience with real Amish groups. They are anything but independent and self-sufficient, and they're not "preppers." As time goes on, the more and more dependent they become on the outside world, and the more sects abandon the old rules about which technologies can't be used. They're very dependent on exchange with outsiders and on modern farming techniques.

J

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Actually, I've known many more leftists who were truly self-suffient than nut job conservative doomsday preppers who were. The lefty hippies actually independently produced their own food, clothing, etc., where the right-wing paranoid pretender preppers were totally dependent on society and just bought all of their prepper goods from the system that they claimed to oppose. In fact, all of the loony right-wing conspiracy preachers of imminent doom that I've known made their money by complying with, and even taking great advantage of, government's licensing or otherwise regulating their chosen professions and industries. I think the same is probably true of Apey Greg.

J

On the topic of taking advantage of the govt etc, I do that daily. I work for my city govt. The pay is horrible, but assuming we don't wind up like Greece, I have a pension and great insurance. So while it does offend my Objectivist principles, I consider it reparations.

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Actually, I've known many more leftists who were truly self-suffient than nut job conservative doomsday preppers who were. The lefty hippies actually independently produced their own food, clothing, etc., where the right-wing paranoid pretender preppers were totally dependent on society and just bought all of their prepper goods from the system that they claimed to oppose. In fact, all of the loony right-wing conspiracy preachers of imminent doom that I've known made their money by complying with, and even taking great advantage of, government's licensing or otherwise regulating their chosen professions and industries. I think the same is probably true of Apey Greg.

J

This is absolutely inaccurate and I have worked with both groups.

Frankly, your testimonial is just that, a testimonial.

The Amish are a clear example of not being "nut job conservative doomsday preppers."

Yet your bizarre labeling of folks that you do not like is incredibly glaring in your syntax.

A...

Bullshit. I don't think you have any real experience with real Amish groups. They are anything but independent and self-sufficient, and they're not "preppers." As time goes on, the more and more dependent they become on the outside world, and the more sects abandon the old rules about which technologies can't be used. They're very dependent on exchange with outsiders and on modern farming techniques.

J

I disagree...since my lady was a missionary midwife for a whole network of "Amish" type folks who were off the grid. Some of them were in Bolivia out in the Chaco, with no electricity, no indoor plumbing and horse drawn wagons where they would bring their milk to the local pueblo and trade.

These communities exist in the US as well.

I deleted the last line which was not supposed to be in my original post.

A...

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How did America's immigration pattern compare to other countries in the world's immigration pattern at that same time?

You are aware that other Irish, Italian, Polish and other immigrants did not have these experiences, correct?

The slums that you described still helped you to stay alive.

Back in the old country, the situation was horrific.

You seemed to have skipped that part of the story of Irish immigration to Boston and New York, etc.:

The influx of poor and desperate people that arrived in that 1847 were fleeing from death my friend.

Look, Selene, I do not know who you think you are arguing with, or what you think the topic is. Jeremiah the American bemoaned the invasion of alien immigrants who create slums and bring crime and destroy the American Republican. You got that much with your "Gregorian" nod. Then, you asked, rhetorically, if they had government welfare, Title 8 housing, Obamacare, etc., etc. I took that to mean that you think that those structures are the cause of the present conditions in the inner cities. So, I pointed out that they had analogous social structures for time which promised to serve them, but only made their conditions worse, as ours do now. Now you are on some other kind of rant.

In Part 3, later this week, Jeremiah has a dream about life in America in 1967.

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