Donald Trump

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

I am into the current round of American politics because the outcomes matter to us and our relationship with you (us being Canadians, you being the Big Country to the South). It doesn't work the other way round. Nobody gives a shit in DC or GOP elsewhere that Justin Trudeau is in office.

William,

I burst out laughing at this.

I lived in the Big Country to the South, all right. Thirty-two years. It is called Brazil.

Believe me, in terms of American politics, I can go head-to-toe with you in the "I'm more boring than thou" mode. People here in the USA at least have heard of Trudeau and his papa.

Who-the-hell ever heard of Itamar Franco or Fernando Henrique Cardoso? Or more recently, Dilma Rouseff? (Did you know they want to impeach her now? Funny, nobody else did, either.)

As to Iowa, my step-daughter, Tina, studied at Iowa State, right in Ames where all the primary action happens. I drove her there and back for several years. It's a nice college town in middle America. Going into the city is about as close as I got to the political angle, though. My mental images of Ames have more to do with college kids moving into dorms or having beer and pizza. Probably because of my Brazilian perspective, I couldn't muster much interest in the political process itself, which part fascinates you.

You see, I have been on the other side of elections down in Brazil. Up here, from what I have seen so far, it's all the same old same old except in English. Maybe with better gadgets. The human nature part is identical.

For example, I worked on the campaign of Franco Montoro for the governor of São Paulo. I worked long hard hours. I believed in The Cause. This was when Brazil was coming out of the military dictatorship. Heady times, those.

I provided pop singers for Montoro's campaign rallies (including many where he spoke for local candidates for lesser offices). He was the opposition to the military overlords and by God, we saw our chance and were going for it with all we had.

My poor strivers to fame and fortune could hardly get their melodies heard because the microphones were covered in spittle from the aspiring politicians yelling: "Eu prometo!... o povo!... os corruptos!... os picaretas!... punidos!..." and so on. (I promise... the people... the corrupt ones... the bastards... punished...). Try to imagine men and women (but mostly men) full of self-righteous sanctimony hollering into the microphone amidst cacophonous crowd noise and exploding on each "p."

We learned to take our own mics, but even then one got busted and we did not get reimbursed.

We won. Montoro thanked me with a wave of his hand on the night he was declared victor and, later, after he took office, I couldn't even get a meeting with his chief of staff, much less him, to discuss state cultural affairs. It was a pure case of using people, then spitting them out after one gains power. I was a fellow traveler, not an insider. And I learned, insiders are made before elections, not during. Or they are horse-traded in power moves. Pull comes from contacts, networking, influence-peddling and bribery. This is true irrespective of being the oppressor class in power, or the David class chomping at the sling to slay Goliath.

And The Cause? Fuck The Cause. The game is power. For all politicians. No exceptions. The Cause is merely a story for the voters to dream a little and cover the real motivation of the politicians.

The closest I ever got to the center of power on my own was someone asking me, "You're an artist. Where can I get a discreet whore or some coke?"

(btw - I did get into the center of power several times for good projects like cello festivals and so on, but the people taking me there did the dirty work. No elections were involved. And I certainly didn't do it on my own.)

Here in the States? Election politics is the same old crap. Frankly, it's all kinda boring to me.

I'm more into Trump as a story. The narrative. The disrupter of the story wars. He is a uniquely American persona. A self-made made man. Self-funded. Self-promoting. Self-disciplined. Self-producing. Self-inventing. And a wrecking ball to the mental schema that holds the powerful in power through the media.

(Granted, the self-made man part came with a privileged start, but still, for those who live in the money universe, they know the distance between a million and a billion is far greater than any other if you are doing it on your own as an entrepreneur, which Trump did.)

I wish I could share your passion for the mechanics of voting processes, but the wild goose calls my heart, not the civil servant.

I'll try to look, though, and see where I can find common interest with yours.

Michael

[Backlighting]

Marc,

I respect your opinion but disagree with your analysis.

There are plenty of men & women I do not respect since by my standard they haven't earned it.

Examples would include just about the entire Obama Administration of whom I am aware of (both past & present). That's women AND men.

As for speaking in jest (hell, I even rag on my own) of someones genitalia...it's not sexism to me, and by sexism I mean considering women inferior to men as a whole.

Oh, my greeting to Michael was not done to snub anyone else. Michael was on the thread. We've conversed, although not often enough, throughout the yrs. I have frequented his site...which I suspect you know, is a breath of fresh air. I've read enough of what he has posted to know he is a man I like...that greeting was a way of saying hello to him. Don't read into that anymore than what it is for christs sake, for nothing else is there.

Have a great 2016!

-J

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Marc,

Just so you understand, OL came from a culture where the kind of comment you objected to was the norm (SoloHQ, which is now Solo Passion), but the pendulum swung too far to the other side and we get a bunch of finger-waggers (like Phil Coates and a few others). They pissed off everyone more than the gross people did.

Fortunately, they are no longer around. The people left over--the current OL regulars--are no longer used to being told what to say, what not to say, ordered to apologize and so on. Nobody wants that back. Believe me, it was pretty awful during the Coates reign of schoolmarm terror.

So when you did it, and I know you did it from the best part within you and I know you are not anything like the control freaks of yesteryore, it fell into this context.

The best way when you get shocked is to say you don't do that kind of thing, that banter is cool, but it stopped being fun at that point, and leave it at that. (Or do like William and parody it.) People here are pretty good at backing off when they have reached a certain limit. They have developed a taste for doing it on their own instead of being ordered in public to do it.

The way we say it is that everybody speaks for himself or herself.

Believe me, Joe is one of the great ones here. And we both know you are.

This, to me, is more of a misunderstanding between great folks than anything serious.

Michael

[Marc]

Marc,

I respect your opinion but disagree with your analysis.

There are plenty of men & women I do not respect since by my standard they haven't earned it.

Examples would include just about the entire Obama Administration of whom I am aware of (both past & present). That's women AND men.

As for speaking in jest (hell, I even rag on my own) of someones genitalia...it's not sexism to me, and by sexism I mean considering women inferior to men as a whole.

Oh, my greeting to Michael was not done to snub anyone else. Michael was on the thread. We've conversed, although not often enough, throughout the yrs. I have frequented his site...which I suspect you know, is a breath of fresh air. I've read enough of what he has posted to know he is a man I like...that greeting was a way of saying hello to him. Don't read into that anymore than what it is for christs sake, for nothing else is there.

Have a great 2016!

-J

Understood Sir , kind thanks for the post !

Appreciated

[Marc]

Marc,

Just so you understand, OL came from a culture where the kind of comment you objected to was the norm (SoloHQ, which is now Solo Passion), but the pendulum swung too far to the other side and we get a bunch of finger-waggers (like Phil Coates and a few others). They pissed off everyone more than the gross people did.

Fortunately, they are no longer around. The people left over--the current OL regulars--are no longer used to being told what to say, what not to say, ordered to apologize and so on. Nobody wants that back. Believe me, it was pretty awful during the Coates reign of schoolmarm terror.

So when you did it, and I know you did it from the best part within you and I know you are not anything like the control freaks of yesteryore, it fell into this context.

The best way when you get shocked is to say you don't do that kind of thing, that banter is cool, but it stopped being fun at that point, and leave it at that. (Or do like William and parody it.) People here are pretty good at backing off when they have reached a certain limit. They have developed a taste for doing it on their own instead of being ordered in public to do it.

The way we say it is that everybody speaks for himself or herself.

Believe me, Joe is one of the great ones here. And we both know you are.

This, to me, is more of a misunderstanding between great folks than anything serious.

Michael

Enough said ! Understood and respected and kind thanks !

So back to the real issue

Zero chance for the Nomination

Obviously zero chance for the chair

Zero chance he has less money after he drops out , #increasingnetworthforthedonald , follow the money folks , follow the money

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Ha!

 

Strange, but I see wacko Bernie Sanders allies coming over to me because I'm lowering taxes, while he will double & triple them, a disaster!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump)

December 28, 2015

 

I love this guy. He just doesn't stop.

 

He not only talks about energy, he keeps pouring it on day after day.

 

 

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Here's a kind of a useless poll, but it's nice since it makes anti-Trumpers' heads explode.

Donald Trump Ties With Pope Francis In Poll For Second Most Admired Man In World

Left-wing rag, too (Newsweek).

Michael

[william.scherk]

I am into the current round of American politics because the outcomes matter to us and our relationship with you (us being Canadians, you being the Big Country to the South). It doesn't work the other way round. Nobody gives a shit in DC or GOP elsewhere that Justin Trudeau is in office.

Who-the-hell ever heard of Itamar Franco or Fernando Henrique Cardoso? Or more recently, Dilma Rouseff? (Did you know they want to impeach her now? Funny, nobody else did, either.

Brazil has been long been among my interests. I am a longtime reader of the Economist, which surveys the world and gives you better service on airplanes. I can talk about Malaysian politics, Australian politics, Bulgarian politics, and so on. I might not spout on any of this, least of all in a Trump Stump thread, but hey.

Fernando Henrique Cardoso? Plano Real. Itamar Franco, the president preceding Cardoso. Dima Rousseff, protege of Luis Inacio Lula da Silva, and current occupant of the palace, subject to possible impeachment when Congress comes back to town in February.

Comparing our politics to Brazil is fun. I am happy with our boring democratic development, happy to have avoided all the sturm and drang, hyperinflation, instability and corruption.

And The Cause? Fuck The Cause. The game is power. For all politicians. No exceptions. The Cause is merely a story for the voters to dream a little and cover the real motivation of the politicians.

The Cause is ... Trump? The Trump Cause is just a story for voters to dream on? That sounds almost right ... if a bit too simplified.

Here in the States? Election politics is the same old crap. Frankly, it's all kinda boring to me.

Hmmmm. That explains glazing over the details of the struggle for the Iowa brass ring. But -- how will Trump People turn the cause into delegates? If that is too boring for most to pay attention to, not so for the Trump campaign and competitors. It won't be mere stories that get Trump People to the precincts.

I'm more into Trump as a story. The narrative. The disrupter of the story wars. He is a uniquely American persona. A self-made made man. Self-funded. Self-promoting. Self-disciplined. Self-producing. Self-inventing. And a wrecking ball to the mental schema that holds the powerful in power through the media.

Today we hear more warnings from Mr Trump about Sexism and Do Not Go There, Hillary. This is silly. Trump says his daughter Ivanka is so hawt he would probably 'date' her -- if he wasn't her father. Good stuff.

I look forward to the whole unfolding schmozzle of Trump v Clintons on the Sexism Issue. Why not? Nobody can sketch out the full contours of that schmozzle, because the skirmish has barely begun.

I wish I could share your passion for the mechanics of voting processes, but the wild goose calls my heart, not the civil servant.

I'll try to look, though, and see where I can find common interest with yours.

That sounds good. There will be lots to discuss and highlight between now and the tallies in Iowa. As Charlie Sheen said, it's all about Winning. Winning the story wars. Winning the popular vote. Winning the GOP nomination in Cleveland next July. Winning a plurality if not a majority of delegates.

That could make the current ground struggles to come out on top in Iowa ... at least a part of the story of Winning, if not interesting in itself.

Speaking of Winning, it seems a Gallup poll on Most Admired People has emerged (those fucking Gallup leftists). Obama most admired man; Trump tied for 2nd

Yeah, for the eighth time, Obama comes in Number One -- at 17%. Trump, storming up the back-stretch, at 5%. On the Admired People With Vaginas, Stinking Or Not list, there is Madame Secretary ... Clinton Most Admired Woman for Record 20th Time

Clinton has been the most admired woman each of the last 14 years, and 20 times overall, occupying the top spot far longer than any other woman or man in Gallup's history of asking the most admired question. Since 1993, the year she was first named most admired woman, Clinton has stayed in the news as first lady, U.S. senator, secretary of state and a two-time presidential candidate.

"Who are you, Woody Allen?"

-- anyhow, Clinton need say no more on this issue. Donald Trump is not yet on the ballot. He is fighting to get the chance to trounce her. That contest is down the road.

Edited December 28, 2015 by william.scherk

[Selene]

Glad to see you believe that Woody Allen was a pedophile William...

[william.scherk]

Glad to see you believe that Woody Allen was a pedophile William...

Well, there's that.

I guess you have hard and fast rules for mind-reading and ascribing opinions via telepathy. I don't believe Woody Allen was a pedophile. I don't necessarily believe all the claims of child-abuse or child-manipulation. I don't think Woody Allen's primary sexual fixation was on pre-pubescent child bodies. I found his taking a teen-age step-daughter as a bride repulsive, repulsive not just for the taint of incest and grooming, but that he hid it and must have understood how his actions would be seen as betrayal. He was unrepentant, implacable. The ensuing family drama was tragic and it was all his fault. He deserves all the scorn and responsibily for damaged relationships and Mia's going whack. The betrayal was unforgiveable. I thought it was a moral sickness of sorts, but not pedophilia. Is he still with his bride?

Anyhow, thoughts about other than the contents of William's mind and The Bad Wind From Crotch? How's that Black South GOP Trump Winning piece coming along? That was your last substantive fact claim and a good one, and true enough. Sniping is fun, but not as productive.

I'll go first to topic. I give. You give. We give again. Everyone gets presents. Approximately.

Here's some zany gush from a writer at the looney-tunes Politico that should delight Michael for its blindness and inertia and sad spent memes. Fun stuff. I'd be happy to read your take on this, Adam, since your telepathy will have already told you what's mine.

For all the bad feelings that Donald Trump’s naked religious bigotry and race baiting are conjuring up, they are also providing our nation with an opportunity. The ugly rhetoric just might force the country to finally contend with a problem many don’t even want to acknowledge exists: that we are fast becoming a nation in which minorities make up a majority of the population. As a result, tens of millions of white Americans, accustomed for so long to having all the benefits of being the majority, are scared out of their minds—and it is this fear that Trump is exploiting so effectively. These feelings are emerging not because whites are all racists, but because they don’t know what that might mean for them and their children.

As long as angry, scared white Americans follow Trump and his rhetoric, the racial divide in America will only deepen, and it will become increasingly difficult to solve the nation’s most pressing problems. So the question becomes: Who can counter Donald Trump?

This task can’t be left to pundits, academic experts or even preachers, rabbis and imams—particularly as long as Trump continues to tap into the darkest recesses of people’s souls. Destructive groupthink can overcome even the most sincere efforts of community leaders. It cannot be left up to other 2016 presidential candidates, either. They’re far too busy trying to win the White House to be healers.

There is only one person who can unite the country again, and he works in the White House. Yes, President Barack Obama—ironically, the man who is the personification of the fear Trump is exploiting—is the one in the best position to quell the anger being stirred up.

This is not something the president can do from the Oval Office, or from a stage. What he needs to do is use the power of the office in a different way, one that matches the ruthless effectiveness of a demagogue with a private jet. Obama needs to go on a listening tour of white America—to connect, in person, with Americans he has either been unable or unwilling to reach during his seven years in office.

I know the difficulties of such outreach, and also its unique payoff. I‘m a black man who has spent the past decade listening to white Southern conservatives—people who many assume would hate me. Because of that, I’ve been able to get through to people others wouldn’t dare try to reach. I have the battle scars and rare friendships to prove it, including one with a member of the Sons of Confederate Veterans who may help me in a criminal-justice reform push.

The conventional wisdom might say the current U.S. president should visit places like Chicago and Ferguson, where decades-long racial disparities are at the heart of recent bouts of unrest. Or that he should visit San Bernardino and offer condolences in person (which he did before going on vacation), as he’s done so many times after so many mass shootings. Or maybe Detroit, a city still struggling even after a massive bailout saved the domestic auto industry.

Edited December 28, 2015 by william.scherk

[Brant Gaede]

Glad to see you believe that Woody Allen was a pedophile William...

A pedophile is an adult who wants sex with prepubescent children.

A pederast is an adult male who wants sex with an adolescent boy.

As far as I know there is no comparable word for an adult male who wants sex with an adolescent girl.

Incest is sex between closely related blood relatives.

What Woody Allen did wasn't incest, but Mia was 100% right to be upset and pissed off.

--Brant

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

For all the bad feelings that Donald Trump’s naked religious bigotry and race baiting are conjuring up...

William

Gotta hand it to the anti-Trumpers.

They know how to hurt a guy...

How on earth am I going to waste my time with an article that starts like that?

Do I, Trump supporter, write with naked religious bigotry? Am I, whose Brazilian sons from a half-Muslim culture and have black blood in them, a race-baiter?

Here's an idea.

How about an article that starts with: "For all the bad feelings that Obama's naked wacko leftie delusions and race bait riots are conjuring up..."

Would you feel like reading the rest?

Dayaamm!

Slumming is one thing. Attempted schlonging is another...

Michael

[Selene]

William, glad you agree that Woody Allen enlisted in the war on women.

A...

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Yeah, for the eighth time, Obama comes in Number One -- at 17%. Trump, storming up the back-stretch, at 5%. On the Admired People With Vaginas, Stinking Or Not list, there is Madame Secretary ... Clinton Most Admired Woman for Record 20th Time

Wow...

Obama and Hillary are vastly more admired than the pope.

Take that, Catholic Church. You are now toast. Expect to disappear from mankind before too long.

(There's a reason I said that opinion poll was kinda useless. )

Michael

[Marc]

He boasted of the “nice things” said about him by Vladimir Putin. He breezily mocked the suggestion that he might be offended by the praise. And then, addressing the charge that Putin was responsible for the deaths of countless dissident journalists, he offered the reassurance that he himself “would never kill [journalists]…” This statement, of all things — from the Republican favorite, from a potential Commander-in-Chief of the United States — deserves a full stop. But he went on. “…But I do hate ’em. And some of them are such lying, disgusting people. It’s true.”

https://medium.com/@lisavandamme/the-defense-of-human-rights-demands-a-full-stop-a53c3fb0b773#.jtl9brims

[Wolf DeVoon]

Putin was responsible for the deaths of countless dissident journalists

I feel certain that you could name four or five, right? Probably choked them with his bare hands.

[Marc]

Putin was responsible for the deaths of countless dissident journalists

I feel certain that you could name four or five, right? Probably choked them with his bare hands.

Not following , I just posted the article and cut and paste an interesting part .

Are you suggesting that Putin is a Saint ?

[Marc]

I think that this threads most important point was made recently by William who thoroughly explained how polls need to be converted to votes and sometimes the difficulty in doing this .

Trump aint winning Iowa , maybe grabs a State but probably not .

I read a really interesting article about the ground game , ad buys , etc for DT and to me it makes sense and supports my theory that since day 1 , DTs game is not the election but another play by a great deal maker .

Yes MSK , I keep stating the same but regardless of Superman ( DT , not you !!!! ) , and his " numbers " among rich white guys in the northeast , and the Reagan Democrats ( the non voters for this election ) , I cannot see him surviving by Super Tuesday .

" Specifics " , screams Adam ! " Specifics "

He cuts his deal before then , lets call it a hunch

[william.scherk]

This is recursion ...

Glad to see you believe that Woody Allen was a pedophile William...

Well, there's that.

I guess you have hard and fast rules for mind-reading and ascribing opinions via telepathy.

William, glad you agree that Woody Allen enlisted in the war on women.

???

Was there a question? Was there a clarification sought? Was there something to be said other than weird off-topic non sequiturs? As a mind-reader, you fail. I don't quite understand where you are going with the personal attribution of opinions not in evidence. Is there a goal you have in mind?

Think of your audience, Adam.

Re a bond of respect between Putin and Trump, so what? Is it any surprise The Donald takes praise where he finds it?

The Stephanopoulos question about Putin, the journalist murderer ... this was an easy punt for Trump, and he took it.

Do Randians, Objectivists, have some problems with Putin? Oh yeah, but they do not rest on the claim he has killed dissident investigating journalists. The problems date from years back and are related to the process of Putinism in Russia. This is not reducible to a sound-bit gotcha about journalist murders. It made me think Stephanopoulos is but shallowly informed on Russia. I don't know what Trump thinks of the state of freedom in Russia, or that there are fundamental differences between any American regime and the present policy-makers in the Kremlin. He is not getting good questions. I doubt very much he thinks of Putin as a buddy, or able to be buddied. The appearance of condoning authoritarian excesses in Russia ... that is out there to be returned to. I honestly don't know what problems Trump has with Putin and Putinism.

Does Wolf have a problem with Putin? I bet he has ... and I bet he can list a hundred incidents of the crawl to authoritarianism under Putin's rule. Have journalists been murdered, have there been chilling assassinations, have the fields of freedom tightened under One Russia, has the media been tamed, and dissent curbed? Wolf with not argue against this. If the issue is whether anyone can prove a connection between the Kremlin and the state of journalism in Russia, well. Duh. But they weren't the points raised by the former Clinton crony on Crony Channel 4. Fumble

I'll let Wolf start out with telling us the story of press freedom and civil liberties under the Putin regime. It's a sad story and I am having happy holidays. I don't want to break the spell.

Edited December 29, 2015 by william.scherk

[Wolf DeVoon]

I don't know anything about Russia under Putin. I was invited to Moscow and declined.

Meanwhile, how clever are these guys? State Dept. counts 'bringing peace' to Syria as a 2015 win

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

I think that this threads most important point was made recently by William who thoroughly explained how polls need to be converted to votes and sometimes the difficulty in doing this .

Ha!

In other words, it's a law of nature that if you consistently win polls, you don't win elections. That just doesn't happen to anybody.

Double ha!

Michael

[Marc]

I think that this threads most important point was made recently by William who thoroughly explained how polls need to be converted to votes and sometimes the difficulty in doing this .

Ha!

In other words, it's a law of nature that if you consistently win polls, you don't win elections. That just doesn't happen to anybody.

Double ha!

Michael

Double ha !!!! Man , this is one of those exceptions that proves the rule !

These polls are a bit different , reality tv show dude don't want to become POTUS , thats why he has no spend , no desire to spend , no way to convert the non voting "Reagan Dems " to go and vote .

Iowa . done .

Then its NH , I believe and regardless of the polls - after the first 3-4 our DT knows that its done .

So , do you cut the deal now or soon while on top , or wait till you have 1 win outta 15 states for example and cut a deal ???

DT knows when he will deal , I do , Shelly knows ,

This thread will not even die once Trump stands down and deals . It will morph into " yeah , but you don't understand - he only pulled out because of this or that or blah or blah

Its a no win situation for me - even though I called it right

[Brant Gaede]

You're peaking too soon, Marc.

[Selene]

I was wondering whether it is a war on women when Evita's fundraisers at Planned Parenthood kill an eight month old mass of protoplasm in the womb?

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

You're peaking too soon, Marc.

Marc,

Wise words above.

I would hate to slaughter some crows before the appointed hour.

Michael