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1 hour ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:
1 hour ago, Peter said:

No one has gotten anywhere near the proof needed.

There's more than enough proof.

Nobody's been able to get the proof into a court.

This is far from the whole story. In my opinion, we can know by now that most claims put forward were denied in rulings that carefully examined what was attached as "proof" (various reports, attestations and affidavits).  Major, significant, superior court rulings that sifted through evidentiary claims have been posted to OL. 

It's not full reporting to claim that nobody has been able to put a case to the courts. It doesn't portray the antagonist side.  There is a blank.

Explaining failures to succeed with a murky set of assumptions or vague tales of systemic perfidy isn't any help to understanding why no legal authority ruled for Trump or the Kraken on the details ...

I hold that all the Trump-aligned legal heroes have failed to make a proper case. Canny laypersons, legal beagles and careful, thoughtful judges sniffed out every weakness and unsubstantiated claim.

-- on the other hand, did anyone get around to the 'newsworthy' story of the freakish Powerpoint served up by Mark Meadows to the January 6 committee of benghazi?

Mark Meadows' January 6 texts from Fox News personalities and from Donald Trump Jr have more or less dislodged that festival of hoopla. Why would junior be texting his dad's office manager to tell his dad something? Didn't junior have a line to the big guy?

Edited by william.scherk
"On the other hand" ...
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1 minute ago, william.scherk said:

Major, significant, superior court rulings that sifted through evidentiary claims have been posted to OL. 

With a sympathetic to Trump majority in the Supreme Court why haven't they grasped even an insignificant case? Remember the evidence of fraud from Pennsylvania? It showed mail carriers bringing in bag after bag of supposedly fictious mail-in ballots . . . except it turned out they were just doing the mail and nothing illegal was being done. No more fakery please. No more emotional pleas for anyone's favorite conspiracy theory. Trump in 2024.

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1 hour ago, Peter said:

If this "plenty of proof" was available what newspaper wouldn't be running with it like the current tornado damage in the southeast?

Peter,

It is available. I can show you where, too. Right here on OL. (See here.)

That thread shows a ton load of evidence, most of which got included in petitions to courts all over America. And now there is so much more evidence that is not there yet because I did not keep that opening posts going the way I had originally planned.

Yet the courts did not rule on the mountain of evidence that got presented to them because the courts would not allow judicial review of the cases for a series of technicalities.

(Standing, times, etc. One court refused to consider a case with evidence because it was filed before the election, then refused to consider it for a second filing because the election was over. Seriously. This is on record.)

Even for the Arizona audit, where a ton of more evidence got produced, this is nowhere near a court yet because that was an Arizona Senate proceeding. The results are now in the hands of AG Mark Brnovich, who received the report with criminal referrals if I am not mistaken. But he is sitting on it. Only after law enforcement finishes does it get presented to a court.

For the evidence stuff in that thread, though, keep to the opening posts. That thread, like all threads do on forums, later drifted into discussions of this and that.

 

I disagree with your standard that evidence does not exist if the mainstream press does not run it. For an obvious example, the mainstream press refused to run the Hunter Biden laptop story. Does that mean you believe the laptop doesn't exist?

Even when there is video and audio of Hunter getting a foot job on his exposed stiffened member from an Aisian whore while smoking crack? That's just one video among many. Not to mention the evidence of embezzlement on that laptop. I can point you to links to the material if you like. Right here on OL, too.

:)

I will grant you one thing. I can show you evidence all day long, but if you refuse to look at it, you will not see it. Just like when the courts refuse to allow evidence to be added to the docket, the courts will not consider it.

100% guaranteed in both cases.

 

Justice is supposed to be blind in terms of rights, not prejudiced. But it is prejudiced right now. In America, we have a rigged justice system for the most part. (Checks and balances keep it sputtering along, but it's a mess.)

And a rigged justice system does no one any good, not even the current Biden junta. Why? Because that same rigged justice system will be in the hands of guess who in the near future?

Hmmmm?...

:) 

Many of these people are pissed off about the abuse of power. Some of them are talking about abusing the power right back at the predatory class when they get their hands on it. I bet some of them will, too.

My own recommendation is get yourself some popcorn. This ain't going away. It's going to be around for some time.

:)  

Michael

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1 hour ago, Peter said:

Remember the evidence of fraud from Pennsylvania? It showed mail carriers bringing in bag after bag of supposedly fictious mail-in ballots . . . except it turned out they were just doing the mail and nothing illegal was being done.

Peter,

What are you talking about?

Pennsylvania is nowhere near done. One guy does one thing wrong and that erases 10,000 guys perpetrating fraud?

How does that work?

Look here (for just one example) if you want to see item after item of election fraud in Pennsylvania in the 2020 election.

There is a whole lot more out there.

It's wrong for the courts to refuse to look at it.

And it's wrong for law enforcement to refuse to investigate it, especially the FBI, which is compromised to the gills with Deep State crap, but it's still the legal agency that should be investigating this stuff.

Michael

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1 hour ago, william.scherk said:

This is far from the whole story. In my opinion, we can know by now that most claims put forward were denied in rulings that carefully examined what was attached as "proof" (various reports, attestations and affidavits).  Major, significant, superior court rulings that sifted through evidentiary claims have been posted to OL. 

It's not full reporting to claim that nobody has been able to put a case to the courts. It doesn't portray the antagonist side.  There is a blank.

Explaining failures to succeed with a murky set of assumptions or vague tales of systemic perfidy isn't any help to understanding why no legal authority ruled for Trump or the Kraken on the details ...

I hold that all the Trump-aligned legal heroes have failed to make a proper case. Canny laypersons, legal beagles and careful, thoughtful judges sniffed out every weakness and unsubstantiated claim.

-- on the other hand, did anyone get around to the 'newsworthy' story of the freakish Powerpoint served up by Mark Meadows to the January 6 committee of benghazi?

Mark Meadows' January 6 texts from Fox News personalities and from Donald Trump Jr have more or less dislodged that festival of hoopla. Why would junior be texting his dad's office manager to tell his dad something? Didn't junior have a line to the big guy?

William,

Jeffrey Epstein did not kill himself.

But legally he did, right?

:)

Michael

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William,

If you want to debunk the following as if it were all or nothing, go ahead. But that's not accurate.

2 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

There's more than enough proof.

Nobody's been able to get the proof into a court.

 

In that same post I said this:

2 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

But, in almost ALL cases--countless cases--all over the country, the courts are refusing to look at evidence?

 

So in order to make clear what I said and tease out hyperbole from fact, I will amend the part where I said "almost ALL" and "countless."

The following is factually accurate even under the most rigorous standards. And I used a different technique to replace the hyperbole.

The phrase should now read as follows.

But, in the overwhelming, staggering, stupendous, crushing, mind-boggling, enormous, capacious, mammoth, astronomical, vast, brobdingnagian majority of cases--so many cases the number is hard to arrive at--all over the country, the courts are refusing to look at evidence?

Is that clearer?

:) 

Helpfully,

Michael

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59 minutes ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

The results are now in the hands of AG Mark Brnovich, who received the report with criminal referrals if I am not mistaken. But he is sitting on it.

But still the people in Arizona refuse to sit down and shut up about the 2020 election.

Here is what they did today in Pima County, and, rather than a full forensic audit, the evidence presented today is going straight to AG Mark Brnovich's desk.

WQoRc.qR4e.jpg
RUMBLE.COM

Evidence Of Widespread Voter Fraud Revealed At AZ Election Integrity Hearing Today

Let's see if he sits on that, too.

I know the stuff he is sitting on is not going to get thinner over time. It is what it is. And the 2020 election fraud file going to get fatter and fatter and fatter until it becomes a liability for him to ignore.

Telling people, even politely, to sit down and shut up gets them riled when the fraud was so blatant.

Expect more because more is coming...

And when the dam breaks, it is going to be a wonder to behold.

Michael

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7 hours ago, Peter said:

No more emotional pleas for anyone's favorite conspiracy theory. Trump in 2024.

"Come mothers and fathers
Throughout the land
And don't criticize
What you can't understand
Your sons and your daughters
Are beyond your command
Your old road is rapidly agin'
Please get out of the new one
If you can't lend your hand
For the times they are a-changin'"
 

 

 

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26 minutes ago, ThatGuy said:

"Come mothers and fathers
Throughout the land
And don't criticize
What you can't understand
Your sons and your daughters
Are beyond your command
Your old road is rapidly agin'
Please get out of the new one
If you can't lend your hand
For the times they are a-changin'"
 

Love that!!!!!!!

Oh, and btw Peter, when Trump gets reinstated, I do not believe he will have the Constitutional right to run again in 2024.

As long as Trump gets back into the WH by the end of the summer of 22,  he will have more than enough time to get things all cleaned up well before 2024 and then from the movement itself, other leaders will emerge.

Long live The King

 

 

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8 hours ago, Peter said:

No more fakery please. No more emotional pleas for anyone's favorite conspiracy theory. Trump in 2024.

Gaslighting trolls gonna gaslight...

Meanwhile, at "American Pravda":
 

Is Criticizing Joe Biden a Danger to Democracy?

"As concerns mount over the future of free and fair elections, a debate has broken out about whether the media must protect Biden to save the republic."

 

Quote

Milbank’s most provocative idea posited that the media needed to be “partisan” in the service of democracy. “The country is in an existential struggle between self-governance and an authoritarian alternative. And we in the news media, collectively, have given equal, if not slightly more favorable, treatment to the authoritarians.”

13b6e16eaca8d49819772ecc639c7a003968edd8
NEWREPUBLIC.COM

As concerns mount over the future of free and fair elections, a debate has broken out about whether the media must protect Biden to save...


And where was such concern among the left about "saving Democracy" when Kathy Griffin posed with the bloodied head of a Donald Trump? Or over the slander of MAGA by Jussie Smollet's "hate crime" hoax?

Don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining.

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1 minute ago, ThatGuy said:

Gaslighting trolls gonna gaslight...
Meanwhile...

 

13b6e16eaca8d49819772ecc639c7a003968edd8
NEWREPUBLIC.COM

As concerns mount over the future of free and fair elections, a debate has broken out about whether the media must protect Biden to save...


Don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining...

Raindrops keep falling on my head....

Pissdrops keep falling on my head...

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8 hours ago, Peter said:

No more emotional pleas for anyone's favorite conspiracy theory.

None so "conspiratorially emotional" as those suffering from  "Trump Derangement Syndrome":

"Hillary Clinton is worried, and she wants you to be, too. In an NBC interview on Sunday, the once-and-possibly-future presidential candidate painted a dark picture of what could be the result if her bête noire, Donald Trump, runs for president again and wins in 2024: 'I think that could be the end of our democracy,' Clinton intoned, and in your heart, you know she’s right: nothing spells the end of democracy more than letting the peasants elect the candidate they want. The political elites, among whom Hillary has been foremost for two decades now, know what’s best for us, and they’re determined not to allow us to make our own decisions: allowing us that much freedom would destroy democracy, doncha know."

 
91a64dbb-6549-4545-be71-b3201d31f72a-120
PJMEDIA.COM

Their Russian collusion hoax failed, and their Ukraine phone call hysteria failed, and their “insurrection” nonsense is false, but they’ll keep trying.

 

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Don't forget , when Clinton et al bemoan the loss of 'our democracy' they mean the loss of 'their' statist/fascist/oligarchical regime's power cloaked in one man one vote transparent inviolate plebeian soothing 'free elections'.

The Deplorables prefer the moniker 'constitutional republic' and its trappings.

 

A re-elected Trump could be a death knell of 'their' democracy , an implausible reinstatement would be a mortal wound to at least seven of the hydra's heads. Hence the level of perceived implausibility.

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The press is melting down big-time.

This came out two days ago (video).

Heilemann: "30 Million People Right Now Are Ready To Take Up Arms" For Donald Trump

WWW.REALCLEARPOLITICS.COM

This happened on Meet The Press. 

Quote

A visibly frightened John Heilemann warned Sunday on NBC's "Meet The Press" that former President Trump will be in a stronger position to launch a "coup" in 2024 than he was in 2020 during a discussion about Barton Gellman's piece in The Atlantic titled "Trump's Next Coup Has Already Begun."


JOHN HEILEMANN: The strength of the Gellman piece is it lays out, first of all, this extraordinary reality that there's something that 8%, and maybe as many as 12%, that say Joe Biden was illegitimate and violence is an appropriate tool to removing him and restoring Donald Trump.

That's somewhere between 20 and 30 million people. That's a mass movement in America in favor of political violence, which is a new thing.

We've had political violence before, lynching and many things against African-Americans, but this is 30 million people right now who are ready to take up arms.

You put that together with what the president, the former president I should say, and his allies are doing in the political realm, statehouses, state legislatures and the party apparatus to be able to engineer a situation where they are in a stronger position to pull off a coup in 2024 than 2020, that's not hyperbolic at all. That's facts.

The is so ridiculous, Steve Bannon has been running it at the beginning of his War Room episodes just so he can laugh at it.

Does anybody really see any existence of millions of armed people in the streets? Much less 30 million? How's that for story versus reality?

Dayaamm!

But there is a meaning behind Heilemann's whining. He means they don't have the manpower to send 30 million people to reeducation camps right now. They don't have a way to coerce 30 million people. And they don't know what to do to get those suckers to obey. What's worse, these suckers vote.

:) 

Jokes are now flying around all over the place. My favorite: One guy said we are damned straight terrified of the January 6th armed uprising at the Capitol. Just because the insurrectionists forgot to bring their guns, that doesn't mean they didn't want to.

:)

When the press gets like this, they are on the run. Even the Deep State is for Heilemann to go off like that, although the Deep State should never be underestimated.

Guns don't have them terrified. Loss of power does. They know the crimes they committed with the power they held. And they are terrified of being held accountable.

But they are losing power with every day that passes. Look at muh polls, even their fake polls. The direction is straight down. There is no way to hide it. And, you can be sure, they will be held accountable.

Nothing can stop what is coming.

Michael

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3 hours ago, Marc said:

Love that!!!!!!!

Oh, and btw Peter, when Trump gets reinstated, I do not believe he will have the Constitutional right to run again in 2024.

As long as Trump gets back into the WH by the end of the summer of 22,  he will have more than enough time to get things all cleaned up well before 2024 and then from the movement itself, other leaders will emerge.

Long live The King

 

 

The only way he can get back in the WH before 2025 is if he runs for Congress n becomes Speaker he'll be second in line of succession. But there won't be enough Senate votes to convict on any impeachment.

--Brant

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11 hours ago, william.scherk said:

Mark Meadows' January 6 texts from Fox News personalities and from Donald Trump Jr have more or less dislodged that festival of hoopla. Why would junior be texting his dad's office manager to tell his dad something? Didn't junior have a line to the big guy?

Grand Hoopla!  Via Memeorandum aggregator.

Spoiler
Hunter Walker / Rolling Stone:
Two Jan. 6 Organizers Are Coming Forward and Naming Names: 'We're Turning It All Over'  —  After losing faith in Trump, the pair plan to hand over text messages, Instagram direct messages, and other documents related to the planning of the Jan. 6 rally on the Ellipse where Trump spoke
Discussion:
RELATED:
i113.jpgJeremy Barr / Washington Post:
Fox News hosts urged Meadows to have Trump stop Jan. 6 violence, texts show  —  Laura Ingraham, Sean Hannity and Brian Kilmeade expressed alarm, concern, according to messages shared during House select committee hearing  —  Three Fox News hosts who have been among Donald Trump's …
Discussion:
i32.jpgByron York / Washington Examiner:
Byron York's Daily Memo: About those Jan. 6 texts  —  Welcome to Byron York's Daily Memo newsletter.  —  Was this email forwarded to you?  Sign up here to receive the newsletter.  —  ABOUT THOSE JAN. 6 TEXTS.  The House Jan. 6 committee has released a bunch of texts …
i17.jpgThe Daily Beast:
Mark Meadows' Personal Cell Is Becoming a Personal Hell  —  Meadows once chaired a panel with oversight of personal communications issues.  Now he has an issue of his own—and the Jan. 6 committee and the National Archives have taken note.  —  It turns out Mark Meadows may have good reason …
i21.jpgJohn Stoehr / The Editorial Board:
Cheney hints at criminal charges for Trump in panel vote to hold Mark Meadows in contempt  —  The House Select Committee investigating the January 6 insurrection voted tonight to hold Mark Meadows in criminal contempt of the Congress.  The full House could vote as soon as Tuesday on a contempt resolution.
i54.jpgDominick Mastrangelo / The Hill:
Meadows: ‘Leaked’ text messages from Fox News hosts have been ‘weaponized’ by committee  —  Former White House chief of staff Mark Meadows said text messages he was sent by Fox News opinion hosts amid the Jan. 6 attack on the Capitol have been “weaponized” in an attempt to cast former President Trump in a negative light.
New York Times:
Fox News Hosts Sent Texts to Meadows Urging Trump to Act as Jan. 6 Attack Unfolded
Discussion:
Paul LeBlanc / CNN:
This is what Donald Trump Jr. texted Mark Meadows as violence unfolded on January 6
Zachary B. Wolf / CNN:
Newly revealed text messages to Meadows undercut GOP whitewashing of the insurrection
Discussion:

 

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45 minutes ago, Brant Gaede said:

The only way he can get back in the WH before 2025 is if he runs for Congress n becomes Speaker he'll be second in line of succession. But there won't be enough Senate votes to convict on any impeachment.

--Brant

The election was fraudulent, there is plenty of proof, States are going through the process, I do not agree that that way is the only way but that would be an exciting way

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6 hours ago, william.scherk said:

Grand Hoopla!

William,

That was interesting.

Methinks the lady doth protest too much.

The press is so obvious in its kangaroo court glee, the fear is flickering hot in between the cracks.

:)

btw - Wait until a different committee or official entity after the midterms subpoenas Nancy Pelosi's emails during that time. And the emails of a few others.

:) 

Michael

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1 hour ago, Brant Gaede said:

The only way he can get back in the WH before 2025 is if he runs for Congress n becomes Speaker he'll be second in line of succession. But there won't be enough Senate votes to convict on any impeachment.

--Brant

Brant,

Until I saw the brazenness of the election fraud, I would have agreed with you.

After all, the only way Biden could have won the 2020 election was with massive voter fraud. And that could not have happened under our system, right?

Yet it did.

So now I think anything goes.

We are in a legal time similar to the Civil War era. People in government on both sides will be (and actually are) improvising in order to keep order and/or hold onto power.

And many of their improvisations will be accepted as legal. Just like the election fraud was accepted as legal at the time.

Impossible for the government is an impossible condition in today's context.

Michael

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52 minutes ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:
1 hour ago, william.scherk said:

Grand Hoopla!

That was interesting.

Methinks the lady doth protest too much.

Which lady?** My takeaway from the Grand Hoopla is that the January 6 committee of benghazi has lotsa people chewing over the details today.  The details are so weird. Where was the President and what was he doing during these hours ... what was going on in the innermost inner circle? Was Meadows even "in the room" during these hours? Who was getting through?

It's no wonder Meadows dodged document demands in his congressional subpoena, but having a book detail these hours (if not the details of these incoming texts), interest in the fuller story coming out peaks in the Enemy of the People section of the media stadium.  

** This Cheney woman gave three minutes or so to the weirdness; cued to her introducing details from some of the texts:

Guess who is not talking about the texts today? That's right, Sean Hannity and Laura Ingraham and the other Fox News notable.

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11 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

[..] the courts are refusing to look at evidence?

Is that clearer?

The clearest thing would be a reference and link to at least one, maybe two or three actual examples of these "refusing to look at evidence" cases that were before courts.

In the interest of least said, soonest mended, I would suggest citing from the set of Trumpworld cases brought in the suspect states of Wisconsin, Michigan, Arizona, Georgia and Pennsylvania. 

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Latest update from Wendy Rogers re: Arizona, via email blast:
 

Quote

Monday was the hearing on the 2020 election in Pima. A lot happened, and you need to know, so let's get into it. 

Pima County had an unusually large number of anomalies for the size of the county.

A private investigator who investigated the 2020 election and allegations of fraud had a lot to report. 

Witness testified that labs used to certify voting machines in Arizona were NOT accredited as required by both State & Federal law. Specifically the “Help America Vote Act”. They also failed to submit docs re: conflict of interest, major shareholders, etc.

Liz Harrington reports:

Canvass of 172 homes in Pima County found 62 early ballots where voter is not a resident

45 PERCENT were potentially fraudulent 

And only 52% of houses responded


In fact, there were a number of towns with more registered voters than voting age population!

Topawa, Arizona

Voting Age Population: 182

Registered "Voters": 288

158% Registration Rate

With single locations having 173 registered "voters"


Then there's this town:

Welcome to Sells, Arizona

Voting Age Population: 1,375 

Registered "Voters": 2,762 

More than DOUBLE registered voters than population


This one is my personal favorite:

Frat house in Arizona has 27 registered voters.

Their average age?

45.


In order to believe there was no fraud in 2020, you'd have to believe that the Will Farrell movie "Old School" was a true story, in Pima, AZ. 

As for me? I'm not buying it!

Towns with twice the number of registered voters as voting age population. 

Frat houses with an average age of 45. 

Uncertified machines. 

Arizona was stolen in 2020. 

We need to get these facts out. People don't understand how bad this problem is- and how the cracks in the system are abused. We need to get this info out!

But hey, it's just "emotional conspiracy theory", right? Nothing to see here...
 

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More news re: "Muh Insurrection!"

Liz Cheney, Daily Beast Tout ‘Bombshell’ Texts That Actually Prove There Was No Insurrection


"The bottom line is that Donald Trump Jr. and others texted Mark Meadows asking him to get Trump to make a statement pacifying the situation on Jan. 6, and Trump did so. This very simply and clearly proves that there was no insurrection at all and that the House’s Jan. 6 committee should make a statement to that effect and end its proceedings. But of course, its real purpose is to prevent Trump from being able to run again in 2024, and in pursuit of that goal, it will be with us for a long time to come."

read full article here:

4ff4036f-d297-4b88-83e4-7c7d7f83f66c-120
PJMEDIA.COM

The bottom line: Donald Trump Jr. and others texted Meadows asking him to get Trump to make a statement pacifying the situation on...

 

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