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4 hours ago, KorbenDallas said:

It's my opinion that what is happening to Beck is what can happen to a mind if a person abandons Reason.  In Beck's case, for mysticism.

Korben,

That's part of it, but it's a little more complicated. There's a social dynamics part for cult and religious leaders that is nothing more than a nasty social-proof feedback loop that preys on a cognitive bias. This loop runs with all kinds of ideas, not just mystical ones, and it is a toxic trap.

I learned it from a book called Feet Of Clay by Anthony Storr (a book about the psychology of cult leaders). In analyzing David Koresh of the Branch Davidians religious sect, Storr presented a comment from one of Koresh's former friends.

He said that Koresh often had a mystical revelation, but would be full of doubt. So he would try it out on some of his followers. If he got the right kind of feedback, meaning belief and action, and the idea spread, he would start believing it himself. Actually believing it. Then it would become part of the official doctrine.

I think this happened with Glenn Beck and he was too weak to resist. Now he's stuck in a fantasy he himself created and doesn't know how to get out. The echo chamber around him only reinforces his fantasy so I don't see him recovering at any time in the near future. I do expect a spectacular crash and burn, though...

(btw - This works similarly for business practices in corporate culture, laws in government, self-help of different varieties, and other areas. Not all business, government, self-help, etc., work this way, of course, but there are plenty of those who fall into this trap and not even realize it.)

The process is for you to come up with some bullshit and know it's bullshit, then ladle it on thick on unsuspecting underlings. If they believe your bullshit and act on it, you start to believe your own bullshit for real. For real... You write your sacred texts. Then off you go to gin up some new bullshit...

And round and round and round she goes...

That is until she blows...

:)

Michael

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It is intriguing.  I've been fairly obsessed for about a year with thinking about details.  I find microbiology fascinating. I wouldn't be wise, however, to talk about details.  The schemers are

That's what it says at the top of the page.  Your point?  It's not like this thread has devolved into a medley of cat videos.  Yet.  

Even more hilarious, how about all those dorks who donated money to Stormy Daniels' GoFundMe campaign for legal expenses? This money will now go to President Trump to pay his lawyers. How co

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It's crazy how this guy, Milo Yiannopoulos, gets Trump and Trump supporters. Actually, he gets it because he is one. But not all Trump supporters (or even Trump himself at times) explain it clearly.

Milo articulates one major component of what Trump is about really well. He takes around 2 minutes to nail it well nailed.

:)

Michael

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MSK,

The social-proof feedback loop seems wicked, both to others and themselves.  What I noticed about Beck was how he now appears to try to make god antecedental knowledge when he gives reasons for things.  Years ago, this wasn't the case.  He might have been guilty of rationalism or Platonism at times, but was often grounded.  I stopped watching him on Fox the further and further away he went from reality.  Now he makes god the fundamental in his arguments, often through some zany connection, and it's terrible for his epistemology.  His argumentation indicates his Logic has been, or is being, replaced by religion.  (After I made this last identification is when the Oist "what can happen to a mind if a person abandons Reason" popped into my head.)  This guy's mind is going... and the decisions he's making, the fasting, etc...

But I can't discount the narcissist factor in Beck, that the more steeped in religion he gets the more increased his ego can become.  For Beck, religion is a powerful vessel for his narcissism, and I'm wondering if we'll see a break at all.. or just perhaps, more ego.

The thing is, there are plenty of religious circles and places for him to navigate being like that, and he's likely to have already found it with the Cruz-Hinn connection.  The social-proof feedback loop is a bit scary here...

 

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btw - Here's David French on video saying--back in January--he would vote for Donald Trump.

(Go to the Real Clear Politics Video link below for video and transcript. I don't think this will be important enough to become a thing.)

In January, Bill Kristol's "Never Trump" Candidate Said He Would Vote For Donald Trump

:)

Man, these guys are amateurville...

Michael

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Just now, KorbenDallas said:

Former Reagan Economist Art Laffer says Donald Trump will win in a landslide over Hillary Clinton in a general election:

 

If so, then the utter reductio ad absurdum of American politics. Trump is a Pleb with a big income and Hillary is a Patrician with no principles.. What comes in on something like this?   Enter Julius Caesar.  I weep for the Republic.

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I'm amused to hear about Beck. Never read or listened to one word of Beck. Seriously. (Maybe second or third-hand.)

Almost the same with Rush Limb[...]. I liked him on his TV show over 2 decades ago, but it's been +99% zip listen since. I don't listen to any talk radio. Period. (Does Beck do radio? TV? Podcasts?)

--Brant

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1 hour ago, KorbenDallas said:

Former Reagan Economist Art Laffer says Donald Trump will win in a landslide over Hillary Clinton in a general election:

 

Not if the Democrats count the votes.

Laffer makes a very interesting point about the mortgage market and low 30 yr interest rates: nobody wants to lend at these low rates [so it's super-duper hard to get a mortgage]

--Brant

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Ba’al wrote: If so, then the utter reductio ad absurdum of American politics. Trump is a Pleb(e) with a big income and Hillary is a Patrician with no principles.. What comes in on something like this? Enter Julius Caesar. I weep for the Republic. end quote

This is ONE bewildered Glenn Beck. Ba’al! I don’t understand. Help me!

So Trump is Julius Caesar? Or is Hillary, Caesar? In one sense, because of family and wealth, Trump is Caesar. But Hillary is part of the Washington/Progressive elite. So who is Caesar? What would Joseph Smith think?

Oh, ye gods, the name will tell the tale. Let me quote. My name is Hillary Clinton Caesar, ie., HCC . . . OMG that is short for Houston Community College! She’s crookedly provincial.

And the other guy? My name is Julius Caesar Trump, ie., JCT. By golly JCT stands for *junction.* I get it. Trump is the junction at the American crossroads. If we take his path we will be great again and prosper for another thousand years without a reboot.

Thanks, Ba’al. I see where I must go. The first step is to give a hundred bucks to the site where I finally found understanding: OL. And then I must prepare for battle.

Peter

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Fox has reported that Art Laffer, a member of Reagan's Economic Policy Advisory Board from 81-89, is "involved heavily behind the scenes with Trump." (ref http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/4916009154001/trump-puts-final-touches-on-economic-plan/?intcmp=obnetwork#sp=show-clips ).  Here he is talking about Obama, the economy, Hillary, and more.  I like his line at the end:

 

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23 hours ago, Brant Gaede said:

I'm amused to hear about Beck. Never read or listened to one word of Beck. Seriously. (Maybe second or third-hand.)

Almost the same with Rush Limb[...]. I liked him on his TV show over 2 decades ago, but it's been +99% zip listen since. I don't listen to any talk radio. Period. (Does Beck do radio? TV? Podcasts?)

 

I occasionally listen to Beck and Rush who have morning weekday programs on a local AM talk radio station, but lately, I find them really hard to stomach. Beck also has a tv show on his "Blaze" network. I don't subscribe. I bought two of Rush's books back in the early 90s (approximately). They were ok, not great.

I much prefer Mark Levin, who is on a local FM talk radio station in the evening. His books are pretty good, much more principled. He's followed by Michael Savage, who is marginally ok. On the same station in the morning is a guy named Michael Delgiorno. He's too religious for my taste, but he's very principled about liberty and the Constitution.

REB

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From the Trump humor thread.

P. J. O’Rourke: Better the devil you know than the Lord of the Flies on his own 757. Flying to and fro in the earth, with gold-plated seatbelt buckles, talking nativist, isolationist, mercantilist, bigoted, rude, and vulgar crap. The electorate is possessed by a demon. (Two, if you count Bernie Sanders, the Donald Trump for people still living in their parents’ basements.) America is experiencing the most severe outbreak of mass psychosis since the Salem witch trials of 1692. No, it’s worse than that. What kind of witch hunt leaves goodwife Hillary not dunked in a pond? end quote

I heard Glenn Beck was kicked off Sirius radio for threatening a future President Trump’s life if he tramples on our liberties.

Peter

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17 minutes ago, Peter said:

From the Trump humor thread.

P. J. O’Rourke: Better the devil you know than the Lord of the Flies on his own 757. Flying to and fro in the earth, with gold-plated seatbelt buckles, talking nativist, isolationist, mercantilist, bigoted, rude, and vulgar crap. The electorate is possessed by a demon. (Two, if you count Bernie Sanders, the Donald Trump for people still living in their parents’ basements.) America is experiencing the most severe outbreak of mass psychosis since the Salem witch trials of 1692. No, it’s worse than that. What kind of witch hunt leaves goodwife Hillary not dunked in a pond? end quote

I heard Glenn Beck was kicked off Sirius radio for threatening a future President Trump’s life if he tramples on our liberties.

Peter

What liberties?

--Brant

cultural anthropologist

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Here's a curious thought I came across watching a YouTube video of a panel discussion on creative writing (if anyone's interested, it was this one). They mentioned Mitt Romney's favorite book.

And that led me to think of the comparison between the favorite book of Trump, the current GOP nominee, and the favorite book of Romney, the previous GOP nominee (who lost the election).

Trump's choice was qualified by excluding the Bible and The Art of the Deal, so we can do similar for Romney.

Trump's favorite book: All Quiet on the Western Front by Erich Remarque, one of the greatest anti-war books of all time. (He said that to Megyn Kelly, but see here for additional proof.)

Romney's favorite book: Battlefield Earth by L. Ron Hubbard, the founder of Scientology. (See here for proof.)

Did we dodge a bullet with Romney's loss?

:) 

I certainly can't help but think of this when observing Romney's constant smears of Trump.

Michael

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9 hours ago, Brant Gaede said:

What liberties?

--Brant

cultural anthropologist

Can you publicly criticize the government without worrying about being arrested or harmed?  If yes, you have some liberty.

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53 minutes ago, BaalChatzaf said:

Can you publicly criticize the government without worrying about being arrested or harmed?  If yes, you have some liberty.

If you're chained to the wall in a dungeon . . .

--Brant

the idea of a discussion here is it goes up, not down--in this case to the 4th grade level

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6 minutes ago, Brant Gaede said:

If you're chained to the wall in a dungeon . . .

--Brant

the idea of a discussion here is it goes up, not down--in this case to the 4th grade level

are you currently chained to a wall or have you ever been chained to a wall?   If not, what is your point?

We all have some liberties.  Many of us do not have all the liberties we would like to have.

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On 6/1/2016 at 0:47 AM, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

Korben,

That's part of it, but it's a little more complicated. There's a social dynamics part for cult and religious leaders that is nothing more than a nasty social-proof feedback loop that preys on a cognitive bias. This loop runs with all kinds of ideas, not just mystical ones, and it is a toxic trap.

I learned it from a book called Feet Of Clay by Anthony Storr (a book about the psychology of cult leaders). In analyzing David Koresh of the Branch Davidians religious sect, Storr presented a comment from one of Koresh's former friends.

He said that Koresh often had a mystical revelation, but would be full of doubt. So he would try it out on some of his followers. If he got the right kind of feedback, meaning belief and action, and the idea spread, he would start believing it himself. Actually believing it. Then it would become part of the official doctrine.

I think this happened with Glenn Beck and he was too weak to resist. Now he's stuck in a fantasy he himself created and doesn't know how to get out. The echo chamber around him only reinforces his fantasy so I don't see him recovering at any time in the near future. I do expect a spectacular crash and burn, though...

(btw - This works similarly for business practices in corporate culture, laws in government, self-help of different varieties, and other areas. Not all business, government, self-help, etc., work this way, of course, but there are plenty of those who fall into this trap and not even realize it.)

The process is for you to come up with some bullshit and know it's bullshit, then ladle it on thick on unsuspecting underlings. If they believe your bullshit and act on it, you start to believe your own bullshit for real. For real... You write your sacred texts. Then off you go to gin up some new bullshit...

And round and round and round she goes...

That is until she blows...

:)

Michael

I remember telling you (sometime ago) that Beck was a buffoon. What do you think now?

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46 minutes ago, BaalChatzaf said:

are you currently chained to a wall or have you ever been chained to a wall?   If not, what is your point?

We all have some liberties.  Many of us do not have all the liberties we would like to have.

You don't know my point? That's the problem, I suppose. You were bored by social studies in school and it shows. Why aren't you bored now? If you can't think to a simple and obvious conclusion but need my help I'm sorry for you. When you start in on so and so did so and so in math and/or science (and illustrate it) and I can't contribute or know I can't learn (from you) what I can't comprehend, I keep my lips zipped. I can tell you're putting out good stuff. That's usually all I can tell. I may catch you in an obvious mistake, and I have, and you immediately correct, but that's next to nothing. You think this ss stuff is easy? Ss is everything not math and science and envelopes science at the most basic level. We can say math comes out of science necessity--that is, science needs (higher) mathematics. We can also say math comes out of epistemology, but, unlike science, that's getting a little too abstract. Listening you lecture me condescendingly about a simple proposition about liberty would be cute and endearing--if you were 9 or 10 years old.

--Brant

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41 minutes ago, Brant Gaede said:

You don't know my point? That's the problem, I suppose. You were bored by social studies in school and it shows. Why aren't you bored now? If you can't think to a simple and obvious conclusion but need my help I'm sorry for you. When you start in on so and so did so and so in math and/or science (and illustrate it) and I can't contribute or know I can't learn (from you) what I can't comprehend, I keep my lips zipped. I can tell you're putting out good stuff. That's usually all I can tell. I may catch you in an obvious mistake, and I have, and you immediately correct, but that's next to nothing. You think this ss stuff is easy? Ss is everything not math and science and envelopes science at the most basic level. We can say math comes out of science necessity--that is, science needs (higher) mathematics. We can also say math comes out of epistemology, but, unlike science, that's getting a little too abstract. Listening you lecture me condescendingly about a simple proposition about liberty would be cute and endearing--if you were 9 or 10 years old.

--Brant

Nothing to do with boredom.  I am completely literal minded.  I read what I read and understand the words written.  I cannot, and do not "read between the lines".  I am incapable of it.  That is one of the symptoms of Aspberger's Syndrome.  I simply cannot process unstated hints and implications.  Nothing is "obvious" to me other than what is in front of my eyes.

You would not scold a blind man for not being able to see.  Why do you scold me? 

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Ba’al wrote: I simply cannot process unstated hints and implications.  Nothing is "obvious" to me other than what is in front of my eyes. end quote

That is why The Net is such a cool place. No facial expressions to read, no nuances if you don’t get them. People are required to *write* literally . . . or risk an overlong explanation as to their meaning.  

I wondered about putting the following in the Trump Humor thread but if I did, it would bother people because Clinton is only about Trump only due to their rivalry. Found in my inbox. Suddenly an ineffectual Bernie is looking better than Old Hickory Clinton.

Peter

Subject: Hillary Clinton - Her actual words, EIGHT QUOTES FROM DIFFERENT BOOKS:
  
1) "Where is the Gxx damn flag? I want the Gxx damn fxxxing flag up every morning at fxxxing sunrise". Hillary to staff at the Arkansas Governor's mansion on Labor Day 1991. From the book "Inside the White House" by Ronald Kessler, p. 244
  
(2) "Fxxx off! It's enough I have to see you shit-kickers every day! I'm not going to talk to you, too! Just do your Gxxdamn job and keep your mouth shut." Hillary to her State Trooper bodyguards after one of them greeted her with "Good Morning." From the book "America Evita" by Christopher Anderson, p.90
  
(3) "If you want to remain on this detail, get your fxxking ass over here and grab those bags!"Hillary to a Secret Service Agent who was reluctant to carry her luggage because he wanted to keep his hands free in case of an incident. From the book "The First Partner" p. 25
  
(4) "Stay the fxxx back, stay the fxxx back away from me! Don't come within ten yards of me, or else! Just fxxxing do as I say, Okay!!?" Hillary screaming at her Secret Service detail. From the book "Unlimited Access" by Clinton 's FBI Agent-in-Charge, Gary Aldridge, p.139
  
(5) "Where's the miserable cock sucker?" (otherwise known as "Bill Clinton") Hillary shouting at a Secret Service officer. From the book "The Truth about Hillary" by Edward Klein, p. 5
  
(6) "You fxxxing idiot" Hillary to a State Trooper who was driving her to an event. From the book "Crossfire" ~pg. 84
  
(7) "Put this on the ground! I left my sunglasses in the limo. I need those fxxxing sunglasses! We need to go back! Hillary to Marine One helicopter pilot to turn back while in route to Air Force One. From the book " Dereliction of Duty" p. 71-72
  
(8) "Come on Bill, put your dick up! You can't fxxx her here!!" Hillary to Gov. Bill Clinton when she spots him talking with an attractive female. From the book "Inside the White House" by Ronald Kessler, p. 243
  
There it is ........book, chapter and page.......the real Hillary. Additionally, when she walked around the White House, NO ONE was permitted to look her in the eye, they all had to lower their heads with their eyes towards the ground whenever she walked by. Clearly she is a class act......!
  
This ill-tempered, violent, loud-mouth, hateful and abusive woman wants to be your next President, and have total control as Commander-in-Chief of our Military, the very Military for which she has shown incredible disdain throughout her public life .
  
Remember her most vile comment about Benghazi: "What difference at this point does it make?"
  
Most recent of her outbursts was to Obama when she learned that the FBI was investigating her: "Call off your fxxxing dogs".
  
 Now it will be clear why the crew of "Marine One" helicopter nick-named the craft, "Broomstick ONE.”

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8 minutes ago, Peter said:

when she walked around the White House, NO ONE was permitted to look her in the eye, they all had to lower their heads with their eyes towards the ground whenever she walked by. Clearly she is a class act......!
  
This ill-tempered, violent, loud-mouth, hateful and abusive woman wants to be your next President, and have total control as Commander-in-Chief of our Military, the very Military for which she has shown incredible disdain throughout her public life .

If Barbra Streisand had been a Marine drill sergeant...

REB

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