Peter Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Adam wrote: Peter, you are stuck in old campaign models. end quote Having a campaign staff is not old fashioned. Being thoughtful and consistent is not passé, so tweeting out his views will come back to bite him. Not having a spokesperson is short sighted since he is no Ronald Reagan. So far his celebrity status has gotten him press time but eventually he will need to say more and more outrageous things to continue getting free press. He will need commercials for the Iowa and New Hampshire primaries. And that is where his money can make a difference. He needs a few, It's Morning In America, ad moments and a celebrity couple like Kevin Bacon and Kyra Sedgewick starring in some feel good commercials. My half joking idea for a commercial would be two detectives examining a crime scene. Who killed the constitution, Brenda? Well it sure wasn't a respected businessman, Kevin. That would pay off in the polls and the voting. Who will endorse Trump at this time? Adam wrote: Frankly, I do not see many downsides to him in office at this time in our very fragile Republic. end quote I worry that his big mouth and shoot from the hip attitude could lead to another *Cuban Missile Crisis* type of event - a Deep Impact (Ele or Extinction Level Event) and an historical movie starring Tea Leoni and Morgan Freeman. Store water and buy crates of Ensure, Adam, because that vindictive blowhard has been elected President. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 AMES, Iowa (AP) Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump criticized Arizona Sen. John McCain's military record Saturday, saying he was a "war hero because he was captured." Speaking at a conference of religious conservatives in Iowa, Trump was pressed on his recent description of the 2008 Republican presidential nominee as "a dummy." McCain served as a Navy pilot during the Vietnam War. He was captured after his plane was shot down and was held more than five years as a prisoner of war. The moderator, Republican pollster Frank Luntz, described McCain as "a war hero." Trump said McCain "is a war hero because he was captured. I like people who weren't captured." The comment drew some boos from the audience . . . . Trump said he avoided service in the Vietnam War through student and medical deferments, adding that he did not serve because he "was not a big fan of the Vietnam war. I wasn't a protester, but the Vietnam war was a disaster for our country." The comments about McCain drew rapid criticism from other 2016 hopefuls. In a statement, former Texas Gov. Rick Perry said the remarks make Trump "unfit to be commander-in-chief." Former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush tweeted: "Enough with the slanderous attacks. @SenJohnMcCain and all our veterans particularly POWs have earned our respect and admiration." Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal, South Carolina Sen. Lindsey Graham and Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker were also quick to condemn the remarks. Texas Sen. Ted Cruz called McCain an American war hero, but sidestepped when asked whether he would condemn the remarks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Peter,Here is a suggestion for informational purposes only.Try to get the Trump side of the argument. Not the spin. This is not to persuade, but to inform.If you look at the mainstream press, all you get is mockery, misrepresentation, negativity and perplexity. And this subtext: NOBODY who is ANYBODY supports Trump. Not celebrities. Not the elite. Not "serious" politicians. Not anyone with a brain.Except for one small issue.TONS OF PEOPLE, including celebrities and the elite are now supporting Trump. And this is growing fast.In the mainstream, there is a growing list of theories about his popularity that is getting comical. (Democrat plant, fascist, rapper, etc.) According to them, NOBODY supports Trump except a growing number of American people (and we all know those are stupid, right? ). Theory, theory, theory, yawp, yawp, yawp. You need to find places where you can be informed of this correctly if you want to make accurate statements. Repeating the mainstream's info will lead you to an ineffective place simply because it is wrong.Note, I'm not saying support Trump. That's your prerogative. I am saying that nothing is gained by relying on false information.I'll try to dig up some sources where facts on Trump fans can be had easily. I haven't found one yet. In all honesty, I haven't looked too hard, but this is something on my to-do list. I generally have to dig through a pile of crap to find accurate information on him. Everybody is spinning their asses off.Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Trump said McCain "is a war hero because he was captured. I like people who weren't captured." The comment drew some boos from the audience . . . Peter, There is a firestorm about this comment all over the press, but you know what this is going to end up being? More growth for Trump. A gotcha will not take him down. Here's why. He is not ashamed of what he says, even when he exaggerates or misfires. When asked if he would apologize to McCain, he said, "No." Yet he tweeted this: Captured or not, all our soldiers are heroes!— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) July 18, 2015 The reason the gotcha isn't "taking" to hurt his ratings, and I predict it will not, is because he doesn't try to justify his words qua words. He explains what led him to say them and stands firm. This is just my opinion and wishful thinking, you might wonder? Look here. I just captured the following screenshot. Trump explained his position and people are supporting him in droves: Nobody gets those kinds of figures on Facebook in two hours. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
william.scherk Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 (edited) There's a bit of a kerfuffle surrounding comments Trump made at the Family Research Summit in Ames, Iowa. Pollster Frank Luntz was moderating a discussion between voters and Trump. As Peter Taylor noted, Trump suggested John McCain was no war hero, at least not a hero like troops who had not been captured. "He's not a war hero" "He's a war hero because he was captured" ...This brought a rapid response from GOP candidates (and Mitt Romney); Baaaad Donald. Shaaaame on you. You are nooooot fit. Blah blah.Trump clarified his opinions with a Facebook post:I am not a fan of John McCain because he has done so little for our Veterans and he should know better than anybody what the Veterans need, especially in regards to the VA. He is yet another all talk, no action politician who spends too much time on television and not enough time doing his job and helping the Vets. He is also allowing our military to decrease substantially in size and strength, something which should never be allowed to happen. Furthermore, he was extremely disrespectful to the thousands upon thousands of people, many of whom happen to be his constituents, that came to listen to me speak about illegal immigration in Phoenix last week by calling them "crazies". These were not "crazies"---these were great American citizens. I have great respect for all those who serve in our military including those that weren't captured and are also heroes. I want to strengthen our military and take care of our Veterans. I want to MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN especially for those that serve to protect our freedom. I am fighting for our Veterans!Here's a video snapshot of the moments that brought on the chorus of kerfuffling; it perhaps gives an indication of what the GOP candidates will face in the debates: [Crossing MSK's comment with the same Facebook post.] Edited July 18, 2015 by william.scherk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 What's obvious to those of us who like Trump is that he was insulting McCain for being an asshole.No more, no less.For as much as others want to impute a wider meaning to those words (and, boy, are they trying), it just doesn't take.Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jjeorge Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 What's obvious to those of us who like Trump is that he was insulting McCain for being an asshole.MichaelHa!!This thread is beautiful...A friend of mine on Facebook (an actual fan of Jeb -- I finally found one) seems to be ranting about this exact thing, saying this alone is a reason to, as he said, #FireTrump.I tried telling in that even if this is insulting, it doesn't matter unless it translates into policy -- that mudslinging politics is just as foolish as the droves of people in our generation (he's two years my senior) who would vote for Obama just because they think he is a cool guy.But maybe I'm going about this wrong.-DavidP.S. Can you tell you're swaying me away from Rand/Walker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 P.S. Can you tell you're swaying me away from Rand/Walker?Drip... drip... drip...Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 I've never heard of a war hero a hero for being captured. It was always for something else. Google Admiral James Stockdale.--Brant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
william.scherk Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 (edited) Whether not the Senator is or was a hero is debatable, and Trump has opened that debate, perhaps to his benefit. I mean, guy's a pilot, guy gets shot down, breaking his arms and legs, gets torture and solitary confinement, rejects an early POW swap offered because of military lineage discovered by the Viet Cong, waits for the war to end, gets home, arms don't work, gets into politics. I mean, the guy was doing his job and following his conscience. His military awards -- Distinguished Flying Cross, Silver Star. Purple Heart had nothing to do with his torture and confinement.Whoever comes out on top of the kerfuffle amongst the GOP contenders, we know that Trump never went to war himself, for good reasons. I think it is that gap between Trump's military record and McCain's that made the kerfuffle most attractive to the contenders and the media lapdogs. It's a morality play for simpletons. Guy was in a war, guy was not in a war. Guy judges guy a failure and loser and shitty advocate for veterans. Other guys cry bad manners. Hero. Non-hero. Bleats and tweets of outrage. Baaah baaaah bad Trump.You guys are going to put up with this for another fourteen freaking months! Kerfuffles. Slurs. Reactions. Molehills. Mountains. Marauding media. Never-ending punditry and massage and special-pleading and jockeying for dominance.-- I think the next six months of polling will be fascinating. When will the GOP field begin to show a candidate rising above about 20, 30 percent? When will the lower-ranking non-entities drop off? Where is this GOP bus headed this far out from the destination?I wonder if Trump might at some point bail from the GOP primaries, in order to have his own independent line on the ballot, a la Buchanan, Anderson and Perot. I further wonder just what his high-water mark will be. I think he will peak, and I don't believe at the moment that we have seen that peak.[Added: if anyone wants to read the eleven other candidates' brief reactions to the Hero/Hero blah, this linked story includes reaction from Fiorina, Bush, Walker, Cruz, Jindal, Perry, Huckabee, Rubio, Pataki, Paul, Graham, and even last election loser Mitt Romney.] Edited July 18, 2015 by william.scherk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backlighting Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 I agree with Trump. Being captured doesn't constitute what a hero is.Now pulling a comrade from a burning tank or single handedly taking out several enemies does imo.McCain's famous for surviving the hell that was his imprisonment...not any deeds he did to save others on the battlefield as far as I know.He's no Audie Murphy. Not even close.Audie Leon Murphy (20 June 1925 – 28 May 1971) was one of the most decorated American combat soldiers of World War II, receiving every military combat award for valor available from the U.S. Army, as well as French and Belgian awards for heroism. At the age of 19, Murphy received the Medal of Honor after single-handedly holding off an entire company of German soldiers for an hour at the Colmar Pocket in France in January 1945, then leading a successful counterattack while wounded and out of ammunition.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audie_Murphy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 For heaven's sake. So McCain didn't get the CMH. That wasn't Trump's complaint.--Brant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 I don't think Trump will run as an independent. He doesn't have the H. Ross Perot gravitas. He also is running for the Republican nomination, unlike Perot. When his elevator starts going down, he'll get off. --Brant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 The Huffington Post is a comedy outfit. After announcing to the four winds that Trump will only be featured in their Entertainment section, they posted the following in the Politics section: Republicans Finally Come Down On Donald Trump: It's about time.This is by Sam Levine, the Associate Politics Editor.Keep on keepin' it professional, Sammy.Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 I stopped backing McCain after the 2000 election.McCain Feingold closed the coffin for me.In light of what has been disclosed about the VA makes him a disgraced hero that did nothing to help his fellow Vets in the VA.A... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
william.scherk Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Classy commentary by the loser from back in the day. Glad he has not presently joined any Twitter pile-on with the GOP band of brothers, and not yet made the kerfuffle personal. All the GOP primary contenders have weighed in, and now the media and commentariat low, small and large will percolate a little bit more of the fuffle left over. Where will the Trump Is Coming, Electoral Sky Is Falling trumpets sound next week?45 years ago today I intercepted a surface-to-air missile with my own airplane over Hanoi!— John McCain (@SenJohnMcCain) October 26, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 I'll try to dig up some sources where facts on Trump fans can be had easily. I haven't found one yet.Here is one at Wikipedia:Endorsements for the Republican Party presidential primaries, 2016The link should scroll down automatically to Donald Trump.Compared to the others, he is doing quite well.Expect this to grow a lot.Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Here's an example from the grassroots. And this is real deal grassroots. I never heard of this guy before. His name is E.T. Williams and he calls himself "The Doctor Of Common Sense." I only came across his video by accident while searching for things Trump. I decided to watch and, sure enough, he articulates--in a very unpolished manner--what people who support Trump are feeling. I haven't looked, but I suspect there is stuff like this all over YouTube (and the rest of the Internet). btw - Anybody surprised grassroots support like this video comes from a black person? The comments to the video are mostly pro-Trump, too. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 On the McCain thing, Trump came out later on CNN and said any American who was captured in war is a hero (except Bergdahl). It's on video in his own words, but without apology to McCain for his earlier insult.Which means, like I said, he was insulting McCain for being an asshole. Nothing more.The video is on the link below and the headline does not reflect--in reality--Trump being flustered, nor "trying" anything. On the contrary, it reflects all the media can do when Trump states a position in such clear words, their gotcha narrative goes bzzzzzz, like deflated. The headline is their way to stick their tongue out at Trump. A Flustered Donald Trump Tries to Clarify Why He Attacked John McCainMediaiteNice try, Mediaite. (Actually not. )Watch the video and see for yourself if Trump was flustered. Nah... he was just being Trump. Like he always is.Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Even Sharyl Attkisson is weighing in (on her site): Fact Check: The Washington Post on Donald Trump and John McCain From the article: An article in the Washington Post today is headlined, “Trump slams McCain for being ‘captured’ in Vietnam.” The article’s lead sentence states, “Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump slammed Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), a decorated Vietnam War veteran, on Saturday by saying McCain was not a war hero because he was captured by the North Vietnamese [emphasis added].” Is this report accurate? In fact, Trump’s actual quote is the opposite of what is presented in the Post’s first sentence. . . . 2. When a panelist characterized McCain as a “war hero,” the Post is accurate in reporting that Trump initially said McCain is “not a war hero.” But then, Trump immediately modified his statement saying– four times– that McCain is a war hero: “He is a war hero.” “He’s a war hero because he was captured.” “He’s a war hero, because he was captured.” “I believe, perhaps, he’s a war hero. But right now, he’s said some very bad things about a lot of people.” 3. Did Trump say McCain is not a war hero because he was captured? No, not in the exchanges represented in the Post. She went on to give the article two "Devils." This rating is for "Fact Errors, Misimpressions and/or Mischaracterizations." The entire article is worth reading. Most of the reporting on this incident in the mainstream suffers from the same twisting the WaPo article did. Michael EDIT: Might as well add this because it should be in some news articles tomorrow. Wow, @SharylAttkisson just wrote the definitive piece on what I said about John McCain https://t.co/P1dxTmeCmQ— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) July 19, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 McCain: A war hero and an asshole.Trump: Not a war hero and an asshole.Are these at the factual base of all the contretemps?--Brantit's pretty dark down there in the snark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Let's do some sequencing ...Trump did not wake up one morning and say, "I am going to attack that war hero John McCain."McCain opened up his non invited mouth to label the assembled supporters at a Trump speech in Arizona as "crazies."McCain does not get a stupid pass on that obnoxious remark.McCain threw a low blow first and got counter punched.This is the McCain Feingold McCain that attempted to gut the First Amendment.This is politics Johnny boy, watch yourself in the clinches.A... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Brant wrote: McCain: A war hero and an asshole. Trump: Not a war hero and an asshole. Are these at the factual base of all the contretemps? Brant it's pretty dark down there in the snark end quote And Bertrand Russell pre-responded around 1946: A stupid man's report of what a clever man says can never be accurate, because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand. end quote Brant, I think showing off by using French words like, "contretemps" and "snark" made Bertrand angry. He only corresponds in English and Academia. Trump is good at offending and causing chuckles. My own disapproval of him is not inspired by left wing media. Rather it is because of what he has said, going back to his one minute radio spots from about a decade ago. Just wait until they are rebroadcast because a lot of his current supporters will be gasping for air. I saw Michael's list of people who are currently supporting Trump and it isn't exactly stellar. I would imagine Jeb Bush tops that level of support especially with financial supporters. What will happen is that Trump will continue to offend one group of Americans after another until his disapproval rates are around 70 percent (hate) and 10 percent (like) and 20 percent (think he is a joke.) Hate, like, and think he's a joke do not, a consensus make. Fortunately, most of the other Republican candidates immediately showed strong disapproval of his McCain comments the original words not the left wing press's translation. Noticeably, Ted Cruz did not have much to say about it, which says a lot. Personally as a Veteran I am not bothered by the fact that Trump disapproved of the Vietnam War and chose not to serve. I was drafted and I thought the War was being stupidly fought. My Naval officer Dad who served in three wars, agreed. He thought we should flatten Hanoi and destroy their rice and other food farming capabilities and only use UN ground forces for a mop up campaign. And like General Douglas Macarthur he even considered the use of tactical nukes. Is Trump damaging the chances of other GOP candidates among Independents and Undecided's? Probably not but a decent poll should be conducted, questioning those groups. In the meantime it appears Trump will continue to get free press and by answering his most brash pronouncements the other Republican candidates will also get free press. The CBS spycam just picked this up outside the door of Rand Pauls house: Hey Honey ~ Look! We are in the news again thanks to The Donald! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaalChatzaf Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 McCain flew in combat and was in harm's way. Trump never served. He never got shot at. He should have kept silent on this matter. From the Wiki article on McCainOn July 29, 1967, McCain, by then a lieutenant commander, was near the epicenter of the USS Forrestal fire. He escaped from his burning jet and was trying to help another pilot escape when a bomb exploded;[28] McCain was struck in the legs and chest by fragments.[29] The ensuing fire killed 134 sailors and took 24 hours to control.[30][31] With the Forrestal out of commission, McCain volunteered for assignment with the USSOriskany, another aircraft carrier employed in Operation Rolling Thunder.[32]Once there, he would be awarded the Navy Commendation Medaland the Bronze Star for missions flown over North Vietnam.[33] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 And Bertrand Russell pre-responded around 1946: A stupid man's report of what a clever man says can never be accurate, because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand. end quoteSee Peter this is why you should be silent...especially when Brant speaks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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