South Carolina Church Shooting

[zantonavitch]

Two elephants in the room here are the way blacks notably degrade the quality of life of almost every white society they come to, and the considerable level of racism and bigotry currently practiced by them. The mass-murderer's manifesto wrestled with these two verboten issues.

[moralist]

Two elephants in the room here are the way blacks notably degrade the quality of life of almost every white society they come to, and the considerable level of racism and bigotry currently practiced by them. The mass-murderer's manifesto wrestled with these two verboten issues.

I also noticed that, Kyrel. Many of his statements were true.

He just chose to draw horribly evil conclusions from them.

Greg

[Selene]

Two elephants in the room here are the way blacks notably degrade the quality of life of almost every white society they come to, and the considerable level of racism and bigotry currently practiced by them. The mass-murderer's manifesto wrestled with these two verboten issues.

Other than being a complete ass, do you have any redeeming qualities?

[Brant Gaede]

Two elephants in the room here are the way blacks notably degrade the quality of life of almost every white society they come to, and the considerable level of racism and bigotry currently practiced by them. The mass-murderer's manifesto wrestled with these two verboten issues.

Yes, there are problems. I just don't feel like discussing them with you, a racist. Ayn Rand called racism the crudest form of collectivism. So why bring this to an individualism site?

--Brant

[Selene]

Was this one of those, how did you so artfully phrase it, "degrade the quality of life" places?

The best description of Black Wall Street, or Little Africa as it was also known, would be to compare it to a mini Beverly Hills. It was the golden door of the Black community during the early 1900s, and it proved that African Americans could create a successful infrastructure. That’s what Black Wall Street was all about.

A...

[Jjeorge]

At random intervals they should strap him down and give him non lethal saline injections..oops, guess that was a practice one.

Torture? Oh hell ya.

Jesus.

I'm not against the death penalty, nor do I have any sympathy for this man, but things like this have always rubbed me thw wrong way.

No matter how you slice it, this is wanting another human to suffer. And I have just never been able to see the wisdom or morality in that.

It's this veritable bloodlust that fuels the Left's ire against the death penalty, as well.

Better to off him on the first one and move on with our lives if you ask me.

[Jules Troy]

You think he is human? More like a rabid dog that doesn't deserve to walk the earth even if it's a cell.

In cases like his where there is absolutely noo doubt as to if he did it or not why indeed allow him to sit on death row for years. Save the tax payers a couple million and just execute him.

In Canada we don't have the death penalty. Instead we allowed Clifford Olson to communicate with the parents of his victims, describing how they squealed as he killed them.

He finally fri king died of old age...

[Selene]

See I am much sicker.

I would make his death a pay for view event with the monies going to the survivors of the folks he destroyed.

Moreover, I would entertain the first 1000 black folks who wanted the opportunity to kill him with their bare hands for the event.

Folks would also pledge monies for each of the volunteers.

Then a winner would be picked by lottery.

A...

[Jjeorge]

"Better to off him on the first one and move on with our lives."

Sounds like I agree that he should be gotten rid of. The sooner the better, because his continued existence should not be on the backs of the taxpayers at all.

I just don't get the desire for it to be painful.

Perhaps it's my Christian roots talking, but I don't jive with this desire for other people to suffer,even after my conversion to atheism.

And yes -- he IS a human, in this sense of the word. And that's what makes the crime so terrible. An animal killing human beings is terrible, but the animal had no choice in the matter. Humans do.

And ya know, supposing he's not "really" human. If a dog kills a child, do you wish for the dog to suffer as the child suffered? Or do you simply want to euthanize the animal and move on?

If you don't think he's human, then treat him like the dog that he is.

[Selene]

Then the next pay for view would be the Major Nadal the Fort Hood shooter who:

Described as a two page letter, it was addressed to Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, the notorious leader of ISIS who declared himself the caliph -- the religious ruler -- over what he calls the Islamic State that he says stretches from western Syria to eastern Iraq.

"I formally and humbly request to be made a citizen of the Islamic State," Hasan wrote in the letter, according to Fox News.

"It would be an honor for any believers to be an obedient citizen soldier to a people and its leader who don't compromise the religion of All-Mighty Allah to get along with the disbelievers."

Hasan is on the military's death row at the U.S. Disciplinary Barracks at Fort Leavenworth, Kansas.

A...

[Selene]

"Better to off him on the first one and move on with our lives."

Sounds like I agree that he should be gotten rid of. The sooner the better, because his continued existence should not be on the backs of the taxpayers at all.

I just don't get the desire for it to be painful.

Perhaps it's my Christian roots talking, but I don't jive with this desire for other people to suffer,even after my conversion to atheism.

And yes -- he IS a human, in this sense of the word. And that's what makes the crime so terrible. An animal killing human beings is terrible, but the animal had no choice in the matter. Humans do.

And ya know, supposing he's not "really" human. If a dog kills a child, do you wish for the dog to suffer as the child suffered? Or do you simply want to euthanize the animal and move on?

If you don't think he's human, then treat him like the dog that he is.

Dogs do not have a rational mind that can understand the difference between what is right and what is wrong.

Your comparison fails.

[anthony]

Rather jgeorge's point, Adam. "Supposing" he is an animal. One's repugnance is at the fact that this is a human, not an animal at which we could not make moral judgment. An animal does what's in its nature to do, and rarely kills needlessly, so I could conclude this man's behavior is sub-rational AND sub-animal. What to think about him and do about him after one's emotions subside, must not be vengeful payback of suffering, I agree with Jg. It comes down to whose objective standards one, or the society, should live by. Not a killer's, for certain.

[Brant Gaede]

Death row: he'll be isolated and alone for many years until he's executed.

Life sentence: he'll have a social existence, like Richard Peck Speck did.

--Brant

and he'll come to like anal intercourse

if I had anything to say about what happens to him out of these two, he'd get death row--and I'd personally forget about him

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

I, personally, don't care if this jerk suffers or not.

I get no pleasure out of suffering from torture, not even such suffering of bad guys, but I won't feel sorry for this one if it happens.

There's an emotional blank inside me on this. Kind of like the way I feel (or better, don't feel) about one fish eating another.

I admit I do experience schadenfreude when a bad guy suffers frustration and minor injuries from failure and destruction of his plans at the time he expects success.

As for this jerk, I just want him removed from the society of decent people so we won't have to think about him or deal with his evil. Death seems like the best option because there's no undoing it. With execution, we can deal with other problems, but at least not him any longer.

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Jjeorge,

I understand your perplexity, especially since I used to feel exactly the same, but, ultimately, there is no philosophy behind people wanting a killer like Roof to suffer. It's just people expressing their outrage and wanting to lash out right back at evil. I would say folks are pissed.

This is a lower-level response in the human mind, not a syllogism.

Michael

[anthony]

Whatever his punishment, it's a fair bet he will suffer in some way, physically (and mentally, if he's capable).

"But I don't think of you"- as a couple have indicated, is the best rational response. Imagining visiting special suffering on him allows too much importance to his existence at cost to one's own peace of mind; and if possible and legally carried out, would affect the culture of a society in the long run.

The underlying frustration is that he won't receive his 'just desserts', a proportional punishment. That's the rationalization for inventing Hell and Damnation, sadly denied to the rest of us.

[Selene]

The point of making him publicly executed is simple.

First, he is removed from the gene pool immediately.

Second, it is a lesson and, I believe a deterrent, although there is an argument about whether it is a deterrent, or not.

Third, by making money for the victims families with a degrading public death, it takes a lot of the glory out of the act.

Finally, he will not be able to escape the grave, he will not have to be fed, clothed and entertained in the grave and he will never kill another human being again.

A...

[Brant Gaede]

Yeah, but within a year of conviction. Not 15 or 20 or never*.

--Brant

*dies of something else

[Jjeorge]

I get no pleasure out of suffering from torture, not even such suffering of bad guys, but I won't feel sorry for this one if it happens.

Michael

I think this is closer to what I'm trying to say. I don't say all these things because I'm a softie who has some sort of sympathy for the guy -- because I absolutely don't.

There are a lot of people who sound like they would honestly enjoy this guy's suffering, and that's what bothers me.

I get that it's definitely a pre-rational response, but it seems like one should have a similarly pre-rational disgust if he were to actually witness a man screaming in agony from such things as, say, Adam suggests.

I do understand the desire for backlash against evil, though, and I guess its kind of funny, because two or three years ago I'd have never imagined myself on this side of such an argument. I was squarely in the "make him suffer" camp.

[Selene]

I get that it's definitely a pre-rational response, but it seems like one should have a similarly pre-rational disgust if he were to actually witness a man screaming in agony from such things as, say, Adam suggests.

Spare me the question begging. Your assertion that it is a "pre-rational" response is your assertion. You have not proved that your conclusion is rational.

Second and this is part of the pay for view, he would be gagged so he could not scream. Increase his horror. His eyes would show you his terror.

You know the terror that parishioner's mother felt while she probably begged for her life.

There is a fine short story by Harlan Ellison called, I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream, that is what I desire to see in his eyes as he dies silently screaming in his own mind.

http://hermiene.net/short-stories/i_have_no_mouth.html

A...

[Jules Troy]

Why he deserves to suffer. It is called retribution. If for example there was a machine I could hook him up to that could deal an excruciating amount of pain, and not only that but in the course of 30 seconds in his own timeline if it could be made so that it appeared to last for a year. I would click that button until an hour or so later he died from shock, In his own mind 50 years of excruciating pain... And let the world know what he went through. Now THAT would be a deterrent.

[Jjeorge]

I get that it's definitely a pre-rational response, but it seems like one should have a similarly pre-rational disgust if he were to actually witness a man screaming in agony from such things as, say, Adam suggests.

Spare me the question begging. Your assertion that it is a "pre-rational" response is your assertion. You have not proved that your conclusion is rational.

http://hermiene.net/short-stories/i_have_no_mouth.html

A...

Spare ME your tautologies.

Maybe pre-rational was the wrong word, but I was referring to what Michael said about your view of it (and I suppose his?) not being syllogistic.

I'm not claiming my assertions are entirely rational, either.

And if you really think the man's scream itself is specifically what I was talking about, then you have missed the point.

Soldiers who have killed will tell you that even though they know the enemies deserved it, every one of their (the soldiers') kills takes a toll on them.

I'd imagine the suffering of even a sociopath should have the same effect on a person, unless he himself is a sociopath. (I suppose I could be wrong, however, as it's not always the case that the person dies.)

[Jjeorge]

Why he deserves to suffer. It is called retribution. If for example there was a machine I could hook him up to that could deal an excruciating amount of pain, and not only that but in the course of 30 seconds in his own timeline if it could be made so that it appeared to last for a year. I would click that button until an hour or so later he died from shock, In his own mind 50 years of excruciating pain... And let the world know what he went through. Now THAT would be a deterrent.

It probably would be a deterrent. That's not the part I'm detesting, because it seems similar to the reasons for the death penalty.

What I don't get is the way it sounds like youd take pleasure in the man's pain itself, instead of the effects of it... Maybe that's ot exactly what you're saying though.

Maybe the point is that you can watch him suffer and understand the reasons for it, and take pleasure in the fact that it will deter others from committing similarly horrible crimes -- despite the toll it might take on your psyche like their kills do to soldiers'?

[Selene]

First of all, taking part in killing this self confessed murderer would of course take a personal toll on me because of who I am.

I am willing to take whatever impact it might have on myself rather than have individuals think that they can kill nine peaceful human beings and stay alive.

I make no apologies, nor do I expect anyone to participate who does not want to participate.

I can also make my point with out capping a word...

A...

[Jjeorge]

First of all, taking part in killing this self confessed murderer would of course take a personal toll on me because of who I am.

I can also make my point with out capping a word...

A...

My apologies if I insinuated that it wouldn't. I didn't mean to insult you if I have.

The capping of "me" is a habit I formed instead of italics, because I communicate with out-of-country friends through Facebook messenger quite a bit -- and for some reason it doesn't allow them.

I simply forgot OL is more sophisticated than that. Or I'm typing on my phone and CTRL + I isn't a possible key combination.