Why is there religion???

[william.scherk]

William hits bottom.

2 hours ago, Brant Gaede said:

3 hours ago, william.scherk said:

But, I am ever hopeful of intelligent conversation.  With some mental work, Bob and Greg might have one.

Greg, can you please say more about this link or causal chain between state education and autism?  How does it work?  Can you give some detail, or give warrants for the notion?

 It doesn't hurt that a lot of what Greg says is true, btw, but he's said it and everything else a thousand times already here. 

It hurts that Greg is incorrigible.

And it hurts that his thoughts on autism etiology are ignorant, specious nonsense. I wish he had more respect for reason. As it stands, the only point of over-lap with Greg is that he tends to hate a few hated things that are also on an Objectivish Hate List.

Greg, tell us about your education. Everyone else has to some degree. Lay it out. We will understand you better if you are honest and forthright and accept challenges to your arguments in a spirit of reason. It is never too late to admit error or mistake. That is what can make a mere male into a Man, a big man where it counts. 

To indulge the OL crapfest tenor and tone:  Are you too cowardly to tell anybody about your substandard education, Greg? Can you tell us how your children were educated?  Did you homeschool them or just set them free?

Let's see if I can make this even nastier and more irrelevant. Yes, I can. Greg reminds me of  the Jehovah's Witnesses. They discourage their members from any education not mandated by law. It makes them better sheep if they never get to any college. They are 'pro-ignorance' and so is Greg, in every aspect of human endeavor except septic tanks and government-mandated electrical standards.  

Wait, I  can get lower!   Greg, you are a perfect specimen of feminized man.  You have replace hard manly means of discovering reality with soft, flabby, feminine 'special ways of knowing.'  You are basically a Big Oozy Slit of a man.

Plus, you are  a fucking moron on nine subjects out of ten.  

There, I have reached bottom.    This message will self-destruct in thirty minutes. Quote it while you  can.

Edited May 20, 2016 by william.scherk
Timer off. Least said, soonest mended.

[Peter]

William astutely wrote: But, since this is a House of Reason, somebody can still follow the House Rules, and try to engage Greg in a thoughtful, non-insulting conversation. Not me . . . . Well, this is the way Greg's arguments go. Shift the goalposts, abandon claims, refuse to answer basic inquiries.  That is his contribution to reasoning, and that is why I consider his work here to be poisonous. The ploys degrade discussion. end quote

 

Well said Bill. Very well said. Greg keeps conflating and confusing distinct classes of individuals. By the fact that he is writing on an Objectivist forum I would recommend he learn about the difference between a liberal and a libertarian, and a secularist of one political persuasion and a secularist of another persuasion. Their convergence is minor, and mostly historical. And their philosophies do not always predict their actions. Few people you meet in life are that deterministic.

 

Rand was quick, in fact almost instantaneous, in passing moral judgement. Greg does the same from quite possibly a similar set of values which are not secular but *proven* by some words in a book he judges infallible or mostly true. But when you do that, mistakes can be made. Read some Rand, Greg. Don’t be a dog.

Peter

 

Jeff Olsen wrote: In any case, it's not fair to blame determinists for equivocations between physical and psychological force.  And I believe there's a good reason why conceptions of physical force are so firmly rooted in our descriptions and perceptions of things: the commonplace intuition that the line between physical and psychological causation is not only often razor-thin, but is at times ostensibly non-existent. end quote

 

George Smith wrote (to Ellen Moore),

"Neither Merlin nor I ever said that ducks can grasp (i.e., understand) 'the concept of "similarity."'  We never said that ducks can 'differentiate conceptually' between real and decoy ducks. (In fact, I expressly denied this in an earlier exchange, in which I argued that ducks cannot commit errors, because they lack the conceptual ability to formulate judgments.)" end quote

 

Bill Dwyer responded: It's true that animals lack the ability to formulate ~conceptual~ judgments, insofar as they are incapable of conceptual classification, but I still think they can be said to judge ~perceptually~.  For example, suppose that a dog sees what is apparently its master, and runs to greet him, wagging its tail enthusiastically.  As it happens, however, the person whom the dog "takes" to be its kind and compassionate owner is in fact the owner's evil twin, who is notorious for his cruel treatment of animals. Clearly, the dog made a mis-"take"; it ~mis-took~ one person for another.  It mistakenly judged that the person it saw was its owner, when in fact that person was simply someone who physically resembled its owner.  Granted, its judgment wasn't conceptual, but there's clearly a sense in which its action reflected a mistaken identification based on a perceptual observation. So I think that, contrary to George, animals can make (perceptual) errors and do engage in a process of perceptual identification or perceptual judgment. end quote

 

Debbie (PinkCrash7) responded: What reason do you have to believe that a dog could mistake the identical twin of its owner for the owner himself?  Dogs have certain perceptual abilities far superior to what humans possess -- particularly the senses of hearing and smell -- and also seem to be very attuned to the emotions and attitudes of human beings.  I have a hard time believing that a dog would make such a mistake as what you suggest.  (This has nothing to do with the argument one way or the other, but it bothers me when questionable examples are given in support of a particular argument.  If the given example is not realistic, then it is of no worth in making a point.) end quote

[Brant Gaede]

I'm nostalgic for Ellen Moore(d). She wasn't very smart but exceedingly obdurate in her imagined Randian expertise. When Jimmy Wales strangled Atlantis with his fuckin' "civility" and the brains left for Yahoo Groups' Atlantis II, she got left behind in the empty house which Jimmy then demolated. (Jimmy in an email asked me if I would moderate the damn thing. I don't think he ever figured out his screw up.)

I don't read much about Jimmy any more. I assume he's still involved with his Wikipedia. Ya gotta give the man credit. It's a genius accomplishment.

--Brant

[william.scherk]

2 hours ago, Brant Gaede said:

demolated

Demolated.

[BaalChatzaf]

4 hours ago, Brant Gaede said:

I'm nostalgic for Ellen Moore(d). She wasn't very smart but exceedingly obdurate in her imagined Randian expertise. When Jimmy Wales strangled Atlantis with his fuckin' "civility" and the brains left for Yahoo Groups' Atlantis II, she got left behind in the empty house which Jimmy then demolated. (Jimmy in an email asked me if I would moderate the damn thing. I don't think he ever figured out his screw up.)

I don't read much about Jimmy any more. I assume he's still involved with his Wikipedia. Ya gotta give the man credit. It's a genius accomplishment.

--Brant

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Jim Wales posts a lot on Quora

[Brant Gaede]

 

2 hours ago, william.scherk said:

Demolated.

I can't stop laughing.

--Brant

thanks

[Mikee]

55 minutes ago, Brant Gaede said:

 

I can't stop laughing.

--Brant

thanks

When the choice is laugh or cry...laughing is the best choice.

[BaalChatzaf]

15 minutes ago, Mikee said:

When the choice is laugh or cry...laughing is the best choice.

At my age, laughter sometimes wets my pants.

[Mikee]

Don't forget your depends...

 

[moralist]

14 hours ago, Brant Gaede said:

We have always been ruled--or tried to be--by the minions of Alexander Hamilton.

"The man who rules himself cannot be ruled by others."

--Greg

[moralist]

10 hours ago, william.scherk said:

It hurts that Greg is incorrigible.

And it hurts that his thoughts on autism etiology are ignorant, specious nonsense. I wish he had more respect for reason. As it stands, the only point of over-lap with Greg is that he tends to hate a few hated things that are also on an Objectivish Hate List.

Greg, tell us about your education. Everyone else has to some degree. Lay it out. We will understand you better if you are honest and forthright and accept challenges to your arguments in a spirit of reason. It is never too late to admit error or mistake. That is what can make a mere male into a Man, a big man where it counts. 

To indulge the OL crapfest tenor and tone:  Are you too cowardly to tell anybody about your substandard education, Greg? Can you tell us how your children were educated?  Did you homeschool them or just set them free?

Let's see if I can make this even nastier and more irrelevant. Yes, I can. Greg reminds me of  the Jehovah's Witnesses. They discourage their members from any education not mandated by law. It makes them better sheep if they never get to any college. They are 'pro-ignorance' and so is Greg, in every aspect of human endeavor except septic tanks and government-mandated electrical standards.  

Wait, I  can get lower!   Greg, you are a perfect specimen of feminized man.  You have replace hard manly means of discovering reality with soft, flabby, feminine 'special ways of knowing.'  You are basically a Big Oozy Slit of a man.

Plus, you are  a fucking moron on nine subjects out of ten.  

There, I have reached bottom.    This message will self-destruct in thirty minutes. Quote it while you  can.

I'll take that as a compliment because it comes from a genuine bureaucrat.

by the way, William... what's with the infomercial billboard crap plastered all over the bottom of every one of your posts? Kind of desperate don't ya think?  

 

Greg

[moralist]

9 hours ago, Peter said:

 By the fact that he is writing on an Objectivist forum I would recommend he learn about the difference between a liberal and a libertarian,

I know that liberal and libertarian both worship at the same altar of dope, perversion, and abortion. In regards to personal morality, their values are essentially indistinguishable. So as long as you ignore what's important, there are differences...

...and when you don't, there aren't.  

Greg

[Peter]

It’s Demolay. I think if you want to be a Knight Templar and search for the Holy Grail, you first need to do an apprenticeship with the Demolays. Ya gotta know the secret handshake and stuff. Jimmy Wales wrote me recently asking for more money. I don't think he knew of our association from Atlantis.

Peter

From Wikipedia: This article is about the fraternal order. For the Grand Master of the Knights Templar, see Jacques de Molay. DeMolay International, founded in Kansas City, Missouri, in 1919, is an international fraternal organization for young men ages 12 to 21. It was named for Jacques de Molay, the last Grand Master of the Knights Templar. DeMolay was incorporated in the 1990s and is classified by the IRS as a 501c tax-exempt organization holding a group exemption letter. Although not a "Masonic organization" as such, DeMolay is considered to be part of the general "family" of Masonic and associated organizations, along with other youth groups such as Job's Daughters and International Order of the Rainbow for Girls.  A family connection to Masonry is not a prerequisite for membership into DeMolay. end quote

 

[Peter]

Deep thoughts. Isn't the Target Store and Obama crap about trannies using female bathrooms really a set back for Women's Rights? I think women should boycott Target and protest to the White House.

Peter

[william.scherk]

From what I understand about bathroom etiquette, some people sit down to piss, and everyone sits down to shit. For hand-washing, this is of course a free-zone.

From the people I know who have had sex-change operations, and who have lived as if they were women, there are several levels of 'passing.'  The first level is generally composed of  people who began the so-called transition at an early age (near to or pre-puberty). The second level is of those whose male-typical body-type is 'finished' -- eg, they began a transition after secondary se characteristics (the male jaw line, the male nose, the male orbital bosses, the typical heavier-boned physique.  The third level is of much older folks who have addressed their gender unhappiness late in life.

The first level 'pass.' They walk, talk, and appear exactly like a proto-typical woman.  They shit where they like, and they sit down to piss, and you have to wonder about a law that forces them to show up in a Men's Room.

An added complexity to the gender-bending are those whosew genomes are simply not synced to the flesh, so to speak. Thus an observably 'female' baby (by examination of external genitalia) can harbour undescended testes ...  and at puberty a particular syndrome may leave the body 'blind' to its design in the genes. I won't belabour the point, but ask that folks think about the odd and rare chromosomal/sex hormone syndromes. Androgen insensitivity syndrome. XXY sex chromosomes. Etc. Data.

What is interesting about current hysteria over where people shit, piss and wash their hands (and adjust their cosmetics and hair) is the resurgence of stereotypes.   It is as if an imagination can only see a single type of person approaching a bathroom ... A TRANNIE.   And what is a TRANNIE?  Something big and hairy and scary and MALE. MSK with a bra and lipstick.

Here is Jazz.  As a boy, he was a 'girl' in his heart, or so he said.  His parents did not understand and experienced anguish for a time. Eventually they agreed to let Jazz dress and act as a girl, and later to take testosterone blockers, so that puberty would not impose a male physique going forward.   

This is the kind of person being told three-steps-removed that "he" must use the boy's room. Why?   I just don't understand the importance.   I don't understand why there should be criminal potential  when Jazz needs to take a shit.  It seems to me like a whole lot of snuffling and sniffing about other people's crotches, and I have a name for that.

 

Edited May 21, 2016 by william.scherk

[moralist]

37 minutes ago, Peter said:

 Isn't the Target Store and Obama crap about trannies using female bathrooms really a set back for Women's Rights?

Why should it when liberal females created egalitarian political correctness? Let them choke on it.

 

Greg

[Peter]

If a person looks like the sex there would be no problem as long as they behave in the correct manner.  I think there have already been instances of men entering women's bathrooms to molest, peep, and take pictures but I received that info second hand. Locker rooms and showers are also required to allow people of a different sex to use those facilities. That is not right and never has been perhaps going back to human cave dwelling days.

I see a potential for assaults and mob violence against trannies as well as perverts using the Obama philosophy to harm children. I say hell no . . . . I won't go.

Peter 

[moralist]

22 hours ago, william.scherk said:

Here is Jazz...

The political left absolutely loves to promote perversion in all of it's forms.

Greg

[Brant Gaede]

1 hour ago, moralist said:

The political left absolutely loves to promote perversion in all of it's forms. [William: "Here is Jazz . . ."]

Greg

You mean the music too?

If you've got a dick go to the boys' room.

If you don't, don't.

Life isn't so complicated that a dick is optional.

When choosing your bathroom never mind what's between your ears; it's what's between your legs.

--Brant

that's what I figured out before I was 5 (it took longer to figure out the why of the difference between girl's and boy's bicycles [skirts and pants] or why women had side-saddles for riding horses, not men [same reason])

[Jonathan]

23 hours ago, william.scherk said:

From what I understand about bathroom etiquette, some people sit down to piss, and everyone sits down to shit. For hand-washing, this is of course a free-zone.

Apey shits by just squatting in his yard, or while dangling from a tree limb. Then he plays with his feces, flings some of it at enemies, thumps his chest in self-congratulations, then rewards himself with a good nose-picking, booger-admiring snack.

J

[moralist]

On ‎5‎/‎20‎/‎2016 at 7:28 AM, william.scherk said:

Who is going to be the first to ask Greg how he was 'schooled'?

I went to public high school only because I had to... and it had absolutely NOTHING to do with my education... except to teach me not to be a public employee.

So instead of sitting like an inert lump listening to the useless drivel of IDIOT government parasite educated intellectuals who NEVER produced anything useful in their shitty lives... I learned a trade just by working at it, and started my own business as a self made independent private sector American Capitalist entrepreneur. My net worth is seven figures (not counting the cents) with zero debt. At 67, I'm healthy and happy with two Grandkids to play with. I'm still constantly creating new ventures, and will retire when I'm dead because I'm doing what I love. 

The secret to success in life is simply loving what's morally right enough to DO it. 

 

 

Greg

[Brant Gaede]

35 minutes ago, moralist said:

I went to public high school only because I had to... and it had absolutely NOTHING to do with my education... except to teach me not to be a public employee.

So instead of sitting like an inert lump listening to the useless drivel of IDIOT government parasite educated intellectuals who NEVER produced anything useful in their shitty lives... I learned a trade just by working at it, and started my own business as a self made independent private sector American Capitalist entrepreneur. My net worth is seven figures (not counting the cents) with zero debt. At 67, I'm healthy and happy with two Grandkids to play with. I'm still constantly creating new ventures, and will retire when I'm dead because I'm doing what I love. 

The secret to success in life is simply loving what's morally right enough to DO it. 

Greg

In the meantime, back in "prevert" OL city . . .

--Brant

will try to get  a vid up

 

[moralist]

11 minutes ago, Brant Gaede said:

In the meantime, back in "prevert" OL city . . .

Notice how the love of promoting perversion is exactly the same for the secular libertarian right as it is for the secular radical left?  

 

The personal moral values of both are generally indistinguishable.

 

Greg

[Peter]

I think I am once again at the point of being SO appalled by Greg’s bigotry and stupidity that I am going to put him on my do not read list.    

Apey wrote: The personal moral values of both are generally indistinguishable. end quote

There you go again. No they are not. A disbelief in platonic ideals floating in the air, ghosts, spirits, or imaginary deities is only indicative of increased rationality, not of any particular mind set or morality. Your mode of thinking and labeling is as flawed as any religionist, like an Islamist or believer in the spirit world. In the late 1800’s and early 1900’s there was a resurgence in belief in fairies and the spirits of the dead who could be communicated with, using a huckster medium as a go between. Greg now claims superior knowledge through divine means. He claims to understand divine, gleeful revenge for not following his brand of cesspool Christianity. Why don’t you just shut up and go away?

Once again. Ayn Rand stressed a system of scientific psycho-epistemology, and a way of living with others she described as rational self interest. And Rand was a secularist. Get it?

Peter 

[Brant Gaede]

45 minutes ago, Jonathan said:

Apey shits by just squatting in his yard, or while dangling from a tree limb. Then he plays with his feces, flings some of it at enemies, thumps his chest in self-congratulations, then rewards himself with a good nose-picking, booger-admiring snack.

J

You are undershooting your target.

--Brant