Michael Stuart Kelly

Thank God for Brian Williams!

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Likely a false memory, not a lie. Consider the lies the media is continually putting out about what is going on in Ukraine. That's lying. The mainstream media is using Williams as a lightning rod to draw away criticism of mainstream media generally. By sacrificing him they save themselves.

--Brant

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Brant,

Brian Williams sure mis-remembered a lot since the tall tale about the 2003 chopper hit constantly changed over the years. It probably is hard to remember if the chopper you are on was blown out of the sky by an RPG instead of being in a different chopper that that received no fire whatsoever and which was a long, long ways off going in the opposite direction. Such minor details... Ah... sweet memory... :smile:

I looked for a timeline story and there are a few out, but most from a couple of days ago. I am specifically looking for a video montage of his different versions of the story that I saw on Fox, but I can't find it. The side-by-side appearances are really ugly.

This scandal has gotten a lot worse, too. Folks are now questioning his saving a puppy from a burning house story, the dead body floating by in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, including him getting sick from the water, and so on.

They are crucifying him and, from the looks of it, he told some whoppers. And it's all on tape, so there is no denying it.

Now he has stepped down "for a few days."

But all in all, I think the mainstream media itself is taking a hit. Williams was the face of NBC credibility.

Meanwhile, another newsflash from the past:

02.07.2015-20.52.png

:smile:

Michael

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But all in all, I think the mainstream media itself is taking a hit. Williams was the face of NBC credibility.

Well, yes, you might say Williams is helping NBC--and ABC and Fox--more than anyone could have predicted.

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NBC should be so proud...

Williams-Rep-copy.jpg?resize=580%2C390

Seems there is another misremember, forgotten, um, er, oh yes, LIE about his flying in Israel.

Williams-Down-copy.jpg?resize=550%2C397

This is the story about the Hezballah rockets that passed just below the skids of his helicopter. Or as he phrased it, “the war with Hezballah in Israel, a few years back … there were Katyusha rockets passing just beneath the helicopter I was riding in.”

NBC-Landing-2-copy.jpg?resize=536%2C360

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If BW never in his life took fire he could have a false memory of taking fire. If you actually experience taking fire, that's likely to be not a false memory.

--Brant

I don't like the BW's of this world and I never watch network news any more

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If BW never in his life took fire he could have a false memory of taking fire. If you actually experience taking fire, that's likely to be not a false memory.

--Brant

I don't like the BW's of this world and I never watch network news any more

Ditto.

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Finally one of the videos appeared on YT.

And it's not the most damaging one, so more is coming when I find it.

http://youtu.be/rD_rqgSfSV8

If Williams mis-remembered (or had a false memory) due to not taking fire before, it's certainly odd that he mis-remembered where his chopper was in his immediate report of the event back in 2003. It's on the video.

He embellished the story later in increments until he was staring down the tube of an RPG with Katyusha rockets whooshing underneath the chopper he was in (there's actually another video of him saying that--see here), but this story started out wrong.

Talk about a poor memory. In 2003, he couldn't even remember correctly what just happened.

:smile:

For those interested in Chris Simeone's story (he was the pilot of the chopper Brian Williams was in):

Pilot of Brian Williams’ flight: All that hit us was dust
by Chris Simeone
February 5, 2015
New York Post - Page Six

From the article:

I was the pilot in command of the flight that carried Brian Williams into Iraq in March 2003.

. . .

We were a flight of two, and I was the rear aircraft. Our flight to Objective Rams was uneventful, with the exception of a desert dust storm that caused deteriorating conditions not suitable for flight.

We determined that we would not make it back to Kuwait as planned. When we arrived at Objective Rams, we found a US armor unit on the objective.

. . .

After landing, we learned that the parked aircraft had received small-arms fire and had been hit with an RPG on their mission.

Brian Williams and crew recorded footage of this parked aircraft. The “Big Windy” aircraft was not part of our unit. It was not part of our flight. We were not flying “behind” them. Our missions were completely separate.

Brian Williams began to tell the story, from 2003, that the lead aircraft in our flight had received this ground fire.

This was not true.

The “Big Windy” aircraft he mentions is another two choppers on a different mission that Williams said was part of the one he was in. That aircraft actually did take fire. But Williams was nowhere near it, dealing instead with a dust storm.

Michael

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Likely a false memory, not a lie. Consider the lies the media is continually putting out about what is going on in Ukraine. That's lying.

I've placed Brant Gaede's words in large type because it is the central issue in the Brian Williams setto--and naturally it is the very thing that all but a few are ignoring.

The problem is not the fact that a photogenic anchorman (who is paid $10 million per annum) has embellished his experiences, but that every day his employer and every other major media outlet in this county serve as mouthpieces for for government policies, both domestic and foreign.

The real scandal is not Williams's lies about himself but the lies he routinely tells on behalf of his masters.

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Well, for 10 mil/yr he might have been habitually embellishing his stories all along for the sake of "good" television. A huge problem with lying is remembering when you lied and how. If you don't lie all you have to do is remember what happened. The effort is minimal. What is characteristic of most news is when it's reported it's done--NEXT! The New York Times prints a damning front page article today and a week or so later makes a significant retraction on page 4, section C--or whatever they call it these days. When my father died in 1993, I cancelled the subscription. I had read it for 25 years, but haven't done more than glance at it two or three times since. I stopped reading the news magazines for somewhat different reasons. Every expert I ever talked to said when they read Time it sounded authoritative and factual--until they read an article they were personally expert in and it was full of mistakes. My beef was Time kept, as a matter of editorial policy, way back then, I don't know now, and don't give a damn, pretending to do the reader's evaluative thinking for him off its dubious "facts" as reported. The arrogance was so palpable and thick you couldn't cut it with a machete.

--Brant

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The real scandal is not Williams's lies about himself but the lies he routinely tells on behalf of his masters.

FF,

I disagree.

This issue of William's lies about his past is not an unreal or fictional scandal.

It is a real scandal.

There are other scandals, too, but that's a real scandal. It exists for real.

Michael

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If you don't lie all you have to do is remember what happened. The effort is minimal.

Brant,

Actually, for the sake of precision, memory does degrade and alter over time. There's a neuroscience reason for this. Since our neural pathways are made up of gobs of mini-narratives, once connections between the pathways happen, which they do over time, the narratives sometimes blend if they have common features.

But this is a slow and non-drastic process. You remember a person being at a place when he wasn't, but instead was at a similar place (or was there at another time, etc.). That kind of thing. But once you see facts of what actually happened and think about it some, the right memory snaps back into place (that is if you are not so burned and embarrassed by being wrong, you get mule-headed).

Barring a stroke or other illness, it's near impossible for memory to become so degraded a guy can mix up huge contrasts, like whether the aircraft he was on was shot out of the sky with a grenade launcher vs. his chopper ran into a dust storm.

:smile:

Michael

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Self-deception is remarkably easy and common in The Game of Life. I think Brian Williams probably just fooled himself. And/or he just exaggerated a bit, in the standard and almost-respectable war story tradition.

People routinely tell themselves narratives. It's how they make sense of the world, and keep everything mentally organized. Sometimes these step-by-step tapestries go wrong, and gradually delve off into the realm of rather high fiction.

Both when I used to sell cars for a living, and when I used to avidly study and discuss history, I would sometimes come up against issues which I didn't fully understand; but I had to say something, and so I did. Over time, when facing the same challenge, these stories and explanations became much more plausible and persuasive -- and sometimes less true. I remember once hearing some true explanation of how cars actually worked mechanically and being simply amazed at how far I had got it wrong. Similarly I occasionally read some ingenious new historian and he gives me new insights, and angles toward truth, which just shock me. My previous self-explanations and narratives -- which I actually fully believed, and which lived quite vibrantly in my mind -- prove to be massively incorrect.

I don't think these types of stories and narratives constitute lying in any clear and definite sense. The current treatment and mockery of Brian Williams seems hugely unjust.

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The real scandal is not Williams's lies about himself but the lies he routinely tells on behalf of his masters.

FF,

I disagree.

This issue of William's lies about his past is not an unreal or fictional scandal.

It is a real scandal.

There are other scandals, too, but that's a real scandal. It exists for real.

Michael

They should fire Williams and replace him with a reporter who has an unblemished record of parroting the Establishment line.

Then we can all go back to business as usual.

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They should fire Williams and replace him with a reporter who has an unblemished record of parroting the Establishment line.

Then we can all go back to business as usual.

FF,

Why on earth would that be good?

Do you think people on OL want that?

I don't.

Here's an idea.

Fire him and replace him with a journalist with integrity.

Michael

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They should fire Williams and replace him with a reporter who has an unblemished record of parroting the Establishment line.

Then we can all go back to business as usual.

FF,

Why on earth would that be good?

Do you think people on OL want that?

I don't.

Here's an idea.

Fire him and replace him with a journalist with integrity.

Michael

As long as we focus on his phony helicopter story, Brian Williams will be infamous only for misrepresenting his own resume. And his replacement will be some pretty face who has learned that the only punishable sin in mass media (besides racism) is exaggerating personal war stories.

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As long as we focus on his phony helicopter story, Brian Williams will be infamous only for misrepresenting his own resume.

FF,

I disagree. I believe it is perfectly possible to focus on Williams's lies about his past and the organization he works for. We can do both.

Talking about one does not preclude the other. I don't even know how that would work.

We humans can walk and chew gum at the same time.

If you are worried about this story being a diversionary tactic, may I suggest a little more study about persuasion techniques? There is only a surface similarity, but nowhere near the essence.

Here's reality. No matter what happens in the Brian Williams story, it will not affect your wish to persuade people to your political thinking. Not one whit. If they fry him, nobody will listen to you. If they keep him, nobody will listen to you.

Your political views are irrelevant to this story for any practical purpose.

I think the reason I dislike the rhetorical template of: "the real XXXX is not what you are doing, it's YYYY" so much is that it is not only inaccurate, it's such a half-assed technique that it never works. It's nothing but a form of inaccurate bitching, not even persuasion. And bitching at the wrong people at that.

If you want to persuade, that's on you to learn how, not on people for not liking a blowhard like Williams when he got caught telling a whopper. You will not get through to them on the coat-tails of this story, nor will you come off as wise and insightful. All you will do that way is give the impression you are grumpy and impotent.

If that's your intent, go for it.

Michael

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As long as we focus on his phony helicopter story, Brian Williams will be infamous only for misrepresenting his own resume.

FF,

I disagree. I believe it is perfectly possible to focus on Williams's lies about his past and the organization he works for. We can do both.

Talking about one does not preclude the other. I don't even know how that would work.

In this thread I see a great number of pictures of Williams, a la Forrest Gump, appearing at historically important events. I see very little about the anchorman's long-time role as a conduit for Establishment propaganda.

Williams's whoppers didn't begin with his artificially enhanced curriculum vitae. It's just that the execs at NBC have no qualms about the whoppers that serve the power elite.

Here's what will happen: Williams will be canned or made to go through some form of rehabilitation. Then his ridiculous, self-made heroism will become as newsworthy as a deflated football. And at that point everybody, with the exception of a few marginalized watchdogs on the far left and far right, will go back to sleep.

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