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Thoughts on the 'Charlie Hebdo' Massacre

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The French are grossly philosophically incompetent. As evidenced by recent mass rallies and magazine covers, they simply don't understand what's going on inside their country. They face serious problems to which they have no real answers.

France, like all Western nations, is currently under attack by Islam. The massively false, evil, and barbaric philosophy of Islam is aggressively seeking to infect, subvert, destroy, and conquer the relatively rational, liberal, and civilized nation of France.

Yet a horde of Muslims and Islamic leaders was invited to France's largest-ever postwar rally on Sunday, January 11th, in Paris. That was fatuous, depraved, lunatic, and utterly suicidal. The fact is the infamous ideology of jihad and sharia is the absolute enemy of France. It needs to be intellectually refuted and morally condemned. It needs to be ruthlessly philosophically crushed. And the Muslim enemy inside France, which actively supports this conceptual monstrosity, needs to be deported.

Muslims inside France, like virtually everywhere else, are quite confident and open in their ferocious desire to hugely alter the current French lifestyle and culture, which is largely based upon the Enlightenment values of reason, individualism, and freedom. Islam and Muslims hate these.

Two weeks ago, on January 7th, Muslim activists brutally slaughtered 12 innocents, and defenders of Western liberalism, at the Parisian magazine Charlie Hebdo. Yet the current front cover of this publication -- so ignorant, amoral, unprincipled, and appeasing -- features a cartoon of Mohammad saying "All is forgiven," and "I am Charlie".

But this is putting false and ridiculous words in the Muslim founder's mouth. It's all a French delusion. No actual Muslim in real life is saying this. Not in France, nor anywhere else.

Muslims around the world are amazingly philosophically consistent and unified. They know what standards to uphold, and which behaviors in others not to tolerate.

Thus virtually every follower of Islam in France, and in every other nation on this earth, rejects and violently opposes the portrayal of Mohammad in visual imagery. Still more do Muslims hate it and fight it when you criticize their belief-system. Yet these are all activities which a socially and politically liberal France tolerates routinely, and which Charlie Hebdo does repeatedly and quite crudely. Something has to give.

If France genuinely hopes to live in decent peace and civilization, and no longer have its free speech and individual liberty threatened, it needs to get to work and start to attack the truly loathsome philosophy of Islam. It needs to vastly cut it down to size. France also needs to pay attention to political and demographic reality, and work to strip the traitorous, anti-Western Muslims of their citizenship and residency.

The truth is: France and Islam are inimical. They have no important philosophical ideals on which they can agree. Like two scorpions in a bottle, they are irreconcilable deadly enemies, and eventually only one of them is going to survive.

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WWIII is starting in the Middle East. For real real. This France stuff is mostly a side show for now. ISIS is a turkey shoot. It's Iran getting the geo-political upper hand in Syria, Yemen and threatening Iraq and Saudi Arabia. This is the next consequence of the US invading Iraq in 2003. Nothing is so powerful as military power deployed but not used but once used it is dissipated. Over a decade of war in Iraq and Afghanistan for nothing but more war. The President's fecklessness is making it all worse. Ironically, his incompetence could cause him to be the American President to on-the-surface take Middle-Eastern conflict to the next level as he just floats on top of this gigantic welfare-warfare state which has a mind of its own. It's the next President who will sock the world flat with a mighty blow to its solar plexus through a Gulf War to end all Gulf Wars, disrupting the flow of oil and sending the oil consuming-import-dependent countries into temporary economic rigor mortis. There is simply little point in getting one's panties in a bunch over the distracting magic show that's Charlie Hebdo. Let France take care of France. Stop pissing off Russia in Ukraine. Take off the blindfold. Por favor. This is not about religion as in religious war. It's about religion being exploited by conquering fascists. That's been the story of Islam from day one. The Muslims were driven out of Spain. They were not converted. Now they are trying to get back in--into Europe. That's Europe's problem. The biggie for the US centers on the Persian Gulf and Iran getting la bomba.

--Brant

let's fight!--let's fight!--let's make the world right!

(Insanity Regina)

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Kyrel,

I agree the response to the Charlie Hedbo killings was extremely bad and showed that far too many in the West lack the guts to stand up for enlightenment/liberal values (such as "free speech absolutism"). But don't you think that perhaps you're lacking nuance?

Christianity is arguably just as bad as Islam, doctrinally speaking, and it has its own history of being used to rationalize monstrous forms of tyranny and oppression (even in the present day). Not only that but there are SOME historical examples of parts of the Islamic world being significantly more free than parts of the West, at least at the time. If Christianity can be neutered/civilized, then theoretically speaking so can Islam.

If you used the phrase "Salafism" or "Fundamentalist Islam" I'd agree with you wholeheartedly. These are, unfortunately, very powerful and institutionally-entrenched forces within the present-day Islamic world and they do need to be opposed.

But just using the broad brush "Islam" ignores the minority of reasonable Muslims (in the same way we can accept that some Christians can be generally reasonable people) within France. Are you suggesting we deport anyone that ticks "Muslim" on a census form?

Fundies are disturbingly well-entrenched and powerful within many Islamic immigrant communities, particularly within Europe. The ideology of postmodern "multiculturalism" (which is very much NOT a form of cosmopolitanism, no matter how much its proponents lie otherwise) enables them to get away with being truly backward and even dangerous. My country recently had the Martin Place Siege so I know the threat posed by Islamic Fundies.

But how can we address this problem WITHOUT violating the Rule of Law? How can we address it WITHOUT violating individual rights? How can we address it WITHOUT wasting lives and ammo on ultimately-unproductive bombing campaigns in the middle east (seriously, you can't bomb people into the Enlightenment!)?

Because frankly, deporting every Muslim from France would be utterly unjust.

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"Doctrinally speaking" Islam is a religion of war and conquest--a pile of crap. There is no moral equivalence today between it and Christianity no matter how much you refer to sacred texts. You can't fight Islam except by fighting fascism. That can't be done with a fascist in the White House. You don't fight The Prophet, that only radicalizes Muslims; helps creates terrorists. A wedge needs to be driven between Muslim religious and political doctrine. There is no winning a religious war, especially by secular states. Christianity is not up to it any more, regardless. Unfortunately, the secular states are run by stupid, ignorant, power-hungry bureaucracies so they give us either nothing much for that or stupid wars for oil. Ironically, individualism is compatible with Christianity to its psychological core. Unfortunately, most Christians are not, but it's right there for the taking and some have taken and run with it. But logically it dead-ends in libertarianism and libertarians, if they really be libertarians, are not going to support the state much less state-action (war) except perhaps in blatant self defense and then only reluctantly until the arrival of their Utopia of freedom which will somehow take over the world because it is so true and right and people are good at the core. Yeah, right. So, today, it's up to the conservatives, some called "neo-cons," who have trouble training their guns on the right targets but no trouble dissipating lives and treasure so when the shit really hits the fan we won't even have soap and water for a shower.

--Brant

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Brant,

Going by the depressingly common orthodox reading of Islam (Salafism), I'm inclined to agree.

But I wasn't denying that. Rather, I was saying that Christianity is potentially (and for most of its history has historically been) just as bad.

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Brant,

Going by the depressingly common orthodox reading of Islam (Salafism), I'm inclined to agree.

But I wasn't denying that. Rather, I was saying that Christianity is potentially (and for most of its history has historically been) just as bad.

There is little potential left at all in Christianity as it has devolved into secularism. This is a one way trip. It could be the adherents of Islam know this and it's secularism they are fighting. Secularism has its own religions and insofar as it does it is not rational. These religions have complex ideological bases and have drenched the world in blood. Some Islamists are likely secularists. The leaders. They think--I speculate--Islam is great bunk for their fascism. They've been at it for 1500 years. War and conquest. Now, after something of a pause, more of that. Objectivism is supposed to be an individualist secular philosophy, but libertarianism took up that mantle, sort of. The world today is fascisms fighting fascisms including the fascism of the United States. It's quite insane. Disengaging--except there isn't any going on--is quite the trip needing reason--only the "Objectivists" don't use reason; they only talk about it. That's why they like war so much. Reason is used in social relationships to keep testosterone in the bottle. We guys are made for hunting and fighting. (Watch the Super Bowl.) Fascism exploits wealth and biology and ignorant, unthinking stupidity. As for fighting per se, there are two kinds: aggression and defense. Bad and not so bad. Not so bad instead of good for not-so-bad fighting is not good as it's a failure of other means. Defeat? That's just horrible (unless you were fighting the United States for then you'll get foreign aid as a consolation prize).

--Brant

to fight fascism first don't be a fascist

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Christianity devolved into secularism? Really? And this as a one-way trip?

Ever heard of the three "Great Awakenings" where religiosity greatly increased amongst the US population? Historically speaking it is NOT a one-way trip. There are plenty of historical examples of religions becoming more fundamentalist over time; indeed Islam is a good example (the Islamic Golden Age was less fundy than today's Islam because there wasn't the Salafist hegemony of today).

The majority of people in Europe may have became secular but to say Christianity has completely devolved into secularism is flatly ridiculous and at best a first-world-centric view; look at the growth of theologically-conservative Christianity in Africa. Look again at the Third Great Awakening, where even American Christianity generally grew more conservative. Yeah, Europe is mostly secular (in its civil society) but still there are strong religionists in parts of Europe too.

As for Islamofascism being 1500 years old, please explain the fact that the terrorist attacks against the US only started in 1983 with the bombing of the US Embassy in Beirut? Islamic terrorism of the Al Qaeda kind is a relatively recent historical phenomenon. I have no ability to tell what is in the mind of Muslims worldwide regarding religious sincerity but I'm very tempted to think they are sincere; suicide attacks generally require true believer fanatics.

Perhaps all the leaders cynically exploit religiosity. That isn't something I think can be proven or disproven although we know wealth in general tends to encourage a shift towards social liberalism, so its plausible.

I certainly agree with you that the solution to fundamentalist Islam is NOT to bomb the crap out of the middle East.

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Kyrel,

I agree the response to the Charlie Hedbo killings was extremely bad and showed that far too many in the West lack the guts to stand up for enlightenment/liberal values (such as "free speech absolutism"). But don't you think that perhaps you're lacking nuance?

Christianity is arguably just as bad as Islam, doctrinally speaking, and it has its own history of being used to rationalize monstrous forms of tyranny and oppression (even in the present day). Not only that but there are SOME historical examples of parts of the Islamic world being significantly more free than parts of the West, at least at the time. If Christianity can be neutered/civilized, then theoretically speaking so can Islam.

If you used the phrase "Salafism" or "Fundamentalist Islam" I'd agree with you wholeheartedly. These are, unfortunately, very powerful and institutionally-entrenched forces within the present-day Islamic world and they do need to be opposed.

But just using the broad brush "Islam" ignores the minority of reasonable Muslims (in the same way we can accept that some Christians can be generally reasonable people) within France. Are you suggesting we deport anyone that ticks "Muslim" on a census form?

Fundies are disturbingly well-entrenched and powerful within many Islamic immigrant communities, particularly within Europe. The ideology of postmodern "multiculturalism" (which is very much NOT a form of cosmopolitanism, no matter how much its proponents lie otherwise) enables them to get away with being truly backward and even dangerous. My country recently had the Martin Place Siege so I know the threat posed by Islamic Fundies.

But how can we address this problem WITHOUT violating the Rule of Law? How can we address it WITHOUT violating individual rights? How can we address it WITHOUT wasting lives and ammo on ultimately-unproductive bombing campaigns in the middle east (seriously, you can't bomb people into the Enlightenment!)?

Because frankly, deporting every Muslim from France would be utterly unjust.

I address a lot of your questions here: http://www.liberalinstitute.com/TheWarOnIslam.html

But the evil attacking the planet and the West is Islam. It's historical and current jihad and sharia -- not salafism, fundamentalist Islam, Islamo-nazism, Islamism, or some such. Almost all Muslims on the planet sympathize with, or outright support, the Charlie Hebdo mass-murderers. This is the problem. And today it's basically unsolvable.

I agree with you that the intellectual raw material, such as the holy books, of Christianity is almost as bad as Islam. Jews, Christians, and other monotheists are never to be trusted, and always to be carefully watched. But these miscreants aren't nearly as true to their beliefs, or as active, as current Muslims. The most serious enemy of Western liberalism today by far is the Muslims.

And they need to be put deeply on the defensive. The West needs to change its tactics about 100%. In order to avoid deportation the French Muslims need to do something or other like independently form a massive rally, march into the heart of the "no go" areas of Paris, and then scream at the top of their lungs:

"We're sick to death of you camelshit-eating, goat-fucking vermin! If you god-damned towelheads don't like freedom, because you're such pathetic, stupid, slimy monkeys, then get the hell out of France now! You're a disgrace to this noble country and all of mankind with your unending, subhuman, slavery-deserving, head-chopping savagery. Knock it off already with your evil jihad and sharia nonsense, and try to act like human beings for three seconds in a row, you hideous, ridiculous, religious-freak monsters. We reject and hate your totally-twisted and hyper-destructive version of Islam, so unless you straighten up and fly right immediately, we're going to hunt you down and then joyously kill every last one of you miserable, disgusting, loathsome, muzzie mutants!"

The good Muslims -- if any actually exist -- need to passionately shout something like that. It doesn't have to be exact. :laugh:

But if they won't say it, and don't start acting like all the other religious folks in France, then that's a secret confession to all that the Islamics are open traitors to France and Western liberalism, hence in need of quick deportation -- or worse.

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Christianity devolved into secularism? Really? And this as a one-way trip?

Ever heard of the three "Great Awakenings" where religiosity greatly increased amongst the US population? Historically speaking it is NOT a one-way trip. There are plenty of historical examples of religions becoming more fundamentalist over time; indeed Islam is a good example (the Islamic Golden Age was less fundy than today's Islam because there wasn't the Salafist hegemony of today).

The majority of people in Europe may have became secular but to say Christianity has completely devolved into secularism is flatly ridiculous and at best a first-world-centric view; look at the growth of theologically-conservative Christianity in Africa. Look again at the Third Great Awakening, where even American Christianity generally grew more conservative. Yeah, Europe is mostly secular (in its civil society) but still there are strong religionists in parts of Europe too.

As for Islamofascism being 1500 years old, please explain the fact that the terrorist attacks against the US only started in 1983 with the bombing of the US Embassy in Beirut? Islamic terrorism of the Al Qaeda kind is a relatively recent historical phenomenon. I have no ability to tell what is in the mind of Muslims worldwide regarding religious sincerity but I'm very tempted to think they are sincere; suicide attacks generally require true believer fanatics.

Perhaps all the leaders cynically exploit religiosity. That isn't something I think can be proven or disproven although we know wealth in general tends to encourage a shift towards social liberalism, so its plausible.

I certainly agree with you that the solution to fundamentalist Islam is NOT to bomb the crap out of the middle East.

"Completely"? Did I say "completely"?

There is an interesting ascension of Christianity in Africa, likely to the benefit of Africans.

I make a general statement and--wonderful to relate!--you can find exceptions in a religion--Christianity--with over a billion adherents and many variants.

Just a little more knowledge about the history of Islam would help too.

--Brant

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But the evil attacking the planet and the West is Islam. It's historical and current jihad and sharia -- not salafism, fundamentalist Islam, Islamo-nazism, Islamism, or some such. Almost all Muslims on the planet sympathize with, or outright support, the Charlie Hebdo mass-murderers.

How did Kyrel arrive at this estimate ... that 'almost all Muslims' sympathize or support the murders in Paris?

-- if Kyrel were to investigate further, asking himself "what have Muslims said in rejection of the murders," what would result? I think it's necessary to investigate further.**

As for the notion that Salafism, fundamentalist Islam, Islamo-Nazism, Islam are distinctions that need not (or should not) be made, this is not a useful rational heuristic. It allows a faulty generalization and faulty conclusion. In addition, a make-no-distinctions-among Muslims heuristic allows a great amount of non-rational hatred and bigotry free play:

camelshit-eating, goat-fucking vermin! god-damned towelhead pathetic, stupid, slimy monkeys subhuman, slavery-deserving, head-chopping savagery. evil jihad and sharia hideous, ridiculous, religious-freak monsters. totally-twisted and hyper-destructive version of Islam hunt you down and then joyously kill every last one of you miserable, disgusting, loathsome, muzzie mutants!"

I think Kyrel is a bigoted maniac on the subject of Islam, incapable of rational argument. I think the rhetoric above is nothing but hateful expostulations.

I can imagine Kyrel meeting a Muslim of some stripe -- and letting loose the farrago of insult. What would follow, I have no idea.

It seems a pointless exercise to direct a stream of ugly fighting words to a non-Muslim audience. Why not engage the perfidious freak monsters directly? Abusing OL's forum to pollute discourse with such key words of prejudice and reaction: it's doubly disgusting. (Google "site:objectivistliving.com goat-fucking towelhead monkey")

___________________________

** one way of evaluating goat-fucking vermin towelhead monkey freak monsters is to divvy up the ground. Look for media reports (not only in English) of reaction to the Paris massacre in the following countries with a Muslim-majority:

  • Tunisia
  • Egypt
  • Algeria
  • Morocco
  • Jordan
  • Turkey
  • Indonesia
  • Malaysia
  • Saudi Arabia
  • United Arab Emirates (including Dubai)
  • Qatar
  • Kuwait
  • Pakistan
  • Uzbekistan
  • Kazakhstan
  • Bosnia
  • Kosovo

- one could also include the Muslim voices parlayed by media in Western countries:

  • Germany
  • UK
  • France
  • Netherlands
  • USA
  • Canada

What did/do "most Muslims" have to say about the French massacre, ISIS, violent jihad, religiously-invoked terror?

I think he would be surprised. I invite Kyrel to do some work at finding out a more realistic state of affairs.

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Because frankly, deporting every Muslim from France would be utterly unjust.

Would it? Muslims constitute objective threats and active enemies of France and the West. Almost all believe in, and assist, their ideals of jihad (war) and sharia (slavery). Even when not fully engaged personally, they morally and verbally support the various Muslim activist groups like Al Queda, the Taliban, Hezbollah, Hamas, ISIS, etc. And they financially support them via the charity branches of the above, and otherwise. They're successfully advancing their horrific Islamic agenda inside the West. Muslims who believe in, and practice, jihad and sharia shouldn't be allowed to destroy France and the West from within. Genocide and universal enslavement aren't human rights.

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I think Kyrel is a bigoted maniac on the subject of Islam, incapable of rational argument. I think the rhetoric above is nothing but hateful expostulations.

I can imagine Kyrel meeting a Muslim of some stripe -- and letting loose the farrago of insult. What would follow, I have no idea.

It seems a pointless exercise to direct a stream of ugly fighting words to a non-Muslim audience. Why not engage the perfidious freak monsters directly? Abusing OL's forum to pollute discourse with such key words of prejudice and reaction: it's doubly disgusting. (Google "site:objectivistliving.com goat-fucking towelhead monkey")

I bet I know ten times as many Muslims as you do. And I talk to them, ask questions, and listen. So my personal knowledge is maybe a hundred times yours. The vast majority are personally nice. So what? Their sociability isn't the issue. It's their philosophy. It's their net impact on the world. I study this too. And I enjoy similar results. Maybe you should try.

Muslims have a lot to answer for. But they're not answering. No-one in the West is making them. I think our whole approach is ghastly wrong. This includes that of the Atlas Society and Ayn Rand Institute. I want to radically change the equation -- change the nature of the discussion completely.

I want Muslims on the defensive. Maybe just once. Their current intellectual confidence and aggression beggars description. It's a pure gift from the West. Largely from those who embrace the terms "Islamophobia" and "racism," and many other words too. Virtually all of them are wrong.

My approach would be no more kid gloves and ultra-sensitivity. They don't remotely deserve it. It certainly isn't prejudice and reaction to dispute an ideology. All Muslims should be asked if they support worldwide jihad and sharia. They do. This should be noted. They should be treated as such. There's no PC and MC with commies and nazis. Why give it to the Islamics?

As for Googling something, the muzzies have many fine videos you might want to check out. Maybe you can better acquaint yourself with the philosophy and people you're defending.

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There is little if any rational defense against a religion but waging war against it as such just means its adherents will dig in or retaliate. The bear-baited United States--9/11--has done more to create terrorists than Islamic Jihadists could ever even dream about. The trick is not to have a religious war but a self-defensive war against Islamic fascism. This fascism mostly keeps Muslims under its thumb, but they should liberate themselves for no one else can. Tyranny confined or confinable to a country is its own metric and should generally be left alone for conservation of resources if nothing else. It doesn't have to be a Muslim state. The US doesn't invade Cuba because it is not a strategic threat, unlike 1962. The economic blockade is obsolete and counter-productive and has enabled the continuation of the regime which is protected from economic dynamicism consequent to trade.

Kyrel, like "Infidel," hasn't a clue how to fight. Hitting a bee-hive with a (verbal) stick is pretty bad strategy. Muslim terrorists are probably deluded or outright fascists using the religion as a base for fascism. Fascism is a mixture of state and religion (or secular ideology) to political ends. Almost every country--if not every country--has some fascism and the United States itself is getting worse and worse that way, especially in its war policies. The US is ruled by fascists from the left and the right. Some of them use the chimera of the US ideology of freedom the way the Islamist Jihadists use the Muslim religion for justification and support as it fights for "democracy and freedom" around the world. The only way to fight fascism attacking from abroad is to simultaneously fight it here at home domestically for the same reason--frededom, real freedom.

The Muslim religion itself--sans fascism--will eventually wither if not die because of communication technologies. More Muslims will become "nice" Muslims over time.

--Brant

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For true liberals -- true champions of reason, individualism, and freedom -- defeating the Muslims is ultra-easy. You loudly, proudly, and publicly intellectually refute and morally condemn their ridiculous and depraved philosophy. You flood their nations with t'v', radio, internet, and newspaper propaganda. You terminate all of theirs. All the while you tell the pure truth. If the dictatorships try to jam the philosophy of liberalism broadcasts, you instantly destroy the hell out of their jammers and attacking units. Then, after intellectually softening them up, and crushing their spirit, you go in and use smart bombs and commandos to kill all their gov't, police, military, and religious leaders. Then you very softly and gently tell the demoralized and spiritually broken nation to consider setting up a libertarian state. You give them almost zero time to comply. If they refuse, you bomb the hell out of them, and permanently take half their land and resources. If they still decline, you even more sweetly whisper your demands, and give them even less time to comply. Then more bombs and 90% of their stuff. Then 98%. Make them beg for peace. If they're not crying a Niagra Falls of tears, and unanimously shouting to the skies on bended knees that they'll never ever ever cast a single dirty look at liberals for the next million years, then you immediately radically ratchet up the attack until you get the desired results.

The bottom line is, if Muslims decide to stop brainwashing, killing, and enslaving everybody, including their kids, they get to live in peace. If not, not.

Ultimately, the liberal time, money, and lives lost to defeat Islam is essentially zero. Indeed, the profits are ginormous. You just have to know what you're doing and mean business.

But there's no substitute for philosophical competence and moral goodness. You can't just say you're a liberal. You have to really be it. You have to genuinely have knowledge, truth, virtue, and morality on your side.

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You're completely including practically delusional. Not only is your hypothetical warship not getting off the ground, it will be ineffective if it could and does. This religious-cultural-political war will be won from the inside out from the Muslims themselves undistracted and insulted by crazy, bigoted preachers from the USA or any where else.

--Brant

war drums from Buncombe--take it out with a stick!

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Complete withdrawal from the Middle East. Sever all economic ties, aide and technology. Simply stop trading with them. Period. Allow them to suffer the consequences of their own actions. When they reform on their own then maybe talks can be considered towards joining the civilized world.

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Complete withdrawal from the Middle East. Sever all economic ties, aide and technology. Simply stop trading with them. Period. Allow them to suffer the consequences of their own actions. When they reform on their own then maybe talks can be considered towards joining the civilized world.

Sever all ties? Does that mean we no longer use technology invented in Israel? Such as the USB connector.

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Lol not including Israel..we have good relations with them.

You said "withdrawal from the middle east". I took you literally.

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