Nerian

Not feeling like doing anything? Uninterested in life?

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Michael

Thank you, Michael, for sharing all this with me. :smile:

In my previous storyline, I was one of the good guys in the Objectivist march to save the world. Rand had an extremely powerful influence on me. I had other fundamental values too, including music.

I see many Objectivists and libertarians are interested in saving the world. I look at them stupified. I've never had any interest in it whatsoever. Before I found Objectivism, I was already for freemarket capitalism, but I still had no interest in going out and saving the world. I was just interested in understanding how the world worked. And I never thought it practical to convince everyone. I look at it very much from a third person view. I can't change the system and don't want to.

That happens when you believe in a fundamental story and can't let it go--you don't want to let it go because you believe body and soul that it is right--but you keep seeing evidence that life ain't that way. That is extremely painful on a spiritual level. So rather than face the issue square on, your subconscious shuts down emotions. And without emotions, you have no drive, no desire other than to just get by.

I'll have to think about your post. I wonder often what I am doing with my life, where I want to go, who I want to be. I've never really held tightly onto any belief though. Maybe I have been without realizing it. Thanks for this insight :smile:

I will keep you posted. Thank you for the care :)

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I'll have a look! :D I used to do a martial art called Zendokai. I don't like Karate, but I would consider doing a martial art again. I'd probably go with Wing Chun because I know of a place in the city. I've also looked into Krav Maga which is not a martial art but Israeli military combat training.

If I can get the motivation... but yes I do think I need more exercise. I think it needs to be somtehing funner than runnign though. Every time I start running I get terribly bored with it. I have been brainstorming sports to try. I'm also thinking of things I always wanted to do as a child but was never able to do.

As to a discipline, consider Tai Chi.

In terms of a sport that has a lot of exercise and a lot of mind ... tennis.

A...

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Michael

Thank you, Michael, for sharing all this with me. :smile:

In my previous storyline, I was one of the good guys in the Objectivist march to save the world. Rand had an extremely powerful influence on me. I had other fundamental values too, including music.

I see many Objectivists and libertarians are interested in saving the world. I look at them stupified. I've never had any interest in it whatsoever. Before I found Objectivism, I was already for freemarket capitalism, but I still had no interest in going out and saving the world. I was just interested in understanding how the world worked. And I never thought it practical to convince everyone. I look at it very much from a third person view. I can't change the system and don't want to.

That happens when you believe in a fundamental story and can't let it go--you don't want to let it go because you believe body and soul that it is right--but you keep seeing evidence that life ain't that way. That is extremely painful on a spiritual level. So rather than face the issue square on, your subconscious shuts down emotions. And without emotions, you have no drive, no desire other than to just get by.

I'll have to think about your post. I wonder often what I am doing with my life, where I want to go, who I want to be. I've never really held tightly onto any belief though. Maybe I have been without realizing it. Thanks for this insight :smile:

I will keep you posted. Thank you for the care :smile:

The "system" has tremendous mass and inertia embedded in sundry ways in the heads of billions of people. Saving the world is from minds biased toward the intellectual side who think it can be explained and argued into existence. This is more seductive to an American because the country is so powerful. All you have to do is change the minds of significant millions through art, philosophy and explication, then your powerful country can demonstrate the value of all this to the world through right conduct with a big moral twist. Or, America saves the world! Unfortunately, it's America run by neo-cons saving the world. They have the moral-political gravitas to get on and stay on and ride this save-the-world horse, not those of a more rational, libertarian bent. The United States has been so saving the world starting with WWI. It's been part of the American DNA since before there was a United States, but it wasn't until WWI that it actually had enough power to go out and do that. The wars of expansion and subjugation of the previous century were in house or right near by. The Spanish-American War was the set up for WWI. The annexation of Hawaii the set up to the set up. Etc. If the Japanese had properly studied the so-called American "Civil War" they'd have never attacked the United States, but their Samurai culture thought all they needed was superior martial spirit, the same spirit which was so seductive to the American South. The primary cause of that war and the war with Japan was economic--the North waged economic war on the South and the U.S. waged economic war on Japan. Surprise! Fort Sumter! Surprise! Pearl Harbor! (Both the South and Japan thought the United States would throw in the towel and let the new thing be, not that they would conquer the U.S. The South had a real chance with that idea, Japan, none [and because of American racism too].)

Thanks to modern technology the U.S. can likely be destroyed by a few high altitude nuclear bombs' EM pulses knocking out the electrical grid and computer systems. They cannot be fixed before most of the population either dies of dehydration (a week or two) or starves to death (a few months). That's my interest in saving the world--that such a horror doesn't happen. You betcha it could.

--Brant

on the brighter side, I should live about only 20-25 more years and maybe not witness this ironically making my old life more valuable all else equal than your young life--I lived my life in the specter of possible general thermonuclear war with the Soviet Uniion killing hundreds of millions--such a danger is still extant but much less obvious today.

the irony of the unscientific novel On the Beach is it may be a gentler explanation of a horrible reality you are much more likely to be witness to in your lifetime than I in mine: it won't be pleasant down under to hear the literal death cries of people who have allowed gross misuse of their country they didn't adequately protect; then your stupification will switch to the other ignorant leg you are standing on

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Peter: "I don't like karate."

Maybe why you don't like it is important because you think you don't like the way you are too. You see, each is a constant. There is a comfort in staying the same. It's difficult to change. Karate would be a change, therefore a threat to your comfort. It's so easy to think "I don't like karate"--just a quick thought to dispose of the matter--sort of like saying I don't like water (so I won't learn to swim). The Six Pillars will teach you how to use sentence completion to explore why you don't like karate plus self explore a lot of other things. Then you might be posting on OL that you "don't like sentence completion."

--Brant

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Energy level is all-important - I recall Branden somewhere touching on its lack and acknowledging its effect on self-esteem, though not exactly what he suggested. Which causes which? a constant anxiety buzz will lessen motivation to go out and try the new, while not trying new things may heighten anxiety.

(I'd be wary about too quickly pinning 'depression' on oneself).

What intelligent, young Oi'sts face is the drive to rationality - but "rational" means in keeping with reality which is also the reality of 'you'. "Rational" is not remote or 'logical' and dispassionate, and if it were so, many great, energising and fun things in life would be dismissed in advance as too predictable, and left untried.

Do whatever you do with passion; if it's not there at first, uncover it. What initially looks dull and uninteresting, if you're fully conscious and looking for fine details, will always provide unforseen, new interests, fresh approaches to thinking, new people, new opportunities and finally a sense of personal efficacy .

(Against anxiety, a regular magnesium intake works wonders. Omega-3 has other major benefits).

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Peter: "I don't like karate."

Maybe why you don't like it is important because you think you don't like the way you are too. You see, each is a constant. There is a comfort in staying the same. It's difficult to change. Karate would be a change, therefore a threat to your comfort. It's so easy to think "I don't like karate"--just a quick thought to dispose of the matter--sort of like saying I don't like water (so I won't learn to swim). The Six Pillars will teach you how to use sentence completion to explore why you don't like karate plus self explore a lot of other things. Then you might be posting on OL that you "don't like sentence completion."

--Brant

No, I don't accept that at all.. I said I'd consider another martial art, so what's the difference? In my view, Karate is rather useless and rigid. That's why I don't like karate. The idea that I don't like karate due to some psychological issues is way off. Karate is a very specific Japanese martial art. I don't like golf or soccer, but that's not a psychological issue. I'm not affraid of doing something different, but it'd have to be something I think warrants effort. I see no point in exerting effort for the sake of effort. My problem is that I don't even feel much like exerting much effort on things that I think are rationally worth doing. And telling someone, 'well if you don't get much pleasure from doing things, then just do things,' isn't much help.

If I said, I don't like sport and I don't like karate, and I won't do anything physical or take up any hobby or take up any practice to help me, then you'd have reason to think I'm trying to get away with not having to do anything.

I've been thinking about tennis, dancing or basketball. I'm very open to the idea I don't get enough physical activity.

It is however true that I don't much like the way I am, and I'm aware now that I really do have quite low self esteem in some ways, and I've been thinking about it a lot lately. I will have a go at the sentence completion method. :smile:

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Peter, my post is food for thought only. I took you at your word that you don't like karate. I worked off that. I didn't imagine it for you for self defense and I don't suppose to know your inner life.

--Brant

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I don't think I'm depressed, but unmotivated with little interest in exerting effort. I can't find much worth doing or achieving. I'd say I'm numb.

What exactly do you think depression is, Peter, if not this?

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We're like plants. :smile:

There is only one atom difference between a molecule of hemoglobin and a molecule of chlorophyll. (Iron ~ Magnesium)

Red and Green. :wink:

Greg

No. We are not like plants.

Well, we each have two views on that, Bob.

In my view, people need the light of the Sun to shine on them for their good health and happiness.

Greg

I agree. Light is pleasant to have in proper quantities and intensities, but it is not absolutely required. If is possible for humans to live in the dark for extended periods of time, much longer than (green) plants can survive in the dark. Humans do not require light (directly) to nourish themselves.

Ba'al Chatzaf

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I don't think I'm depressed, but unmotivated with little interest in exerting effort. I can't find much worth doing or achieving. I'd say I'm numb.

What exactly do you think depression is, Peter, if not this?

I assumed you had to be sad. It may be the beginnings of depresison. I've had brain fog issues for a year, and some have suggested it's actually a kind of depression without the sadness.

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I don't think I'm depressed, but unmotivated with little interest in exerting effort. I can't find much worth doing or achieving. I'd say I'm numb.

What exactly do you think depression is, Peter, if not this?

I assumed you had to be sad. It may be the beginnings of depresison. I've had brain fog issues for a year, and some have suggested it's actually a kind of depression without the sadness.

I don't understand "brain fog." You might need to be evaluated by a neurologist.

--Brant

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I don't think I'm depressed, but unmotivated with little interest in exerting effort. I can't find much worth doing or achieving. I'd say I'm numb.

What exactly do you think depression is, Peter, if not this?

I assumed you had to be sad. It may be the beginnings of depresison. I've had brain fog issues for a year, and some have suggested it's actually a kind of depression without the sadness.

It's called anhedonia (Greek for "without pleasure"), and it's a classic symptom of clinical depression. Once again, I urge you to seek out professional help. Start with your family physician who may want to run some tests to make sure there are no physical contributing factors. I don't know how it goes in Australia, but doctors here tend to be too quick to prescribe. If you are coping okay and not suicidal or homicidal, I wouldn't recommend going that route right away as those types of meds are difficult to wean off once you've taken them for a while. Don't rule it out totally, but be thoughtful and purposeful about it. Talk and/or behavioral therapy, though, are good ideas.

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I don't think I'm depressed, but unmotivated with little interest in exerting effort. I can't find much worth doing or achieving. I'd say I'm numb.

What exactly do you think depression is, Peter, if not this?

I assumed you had to be sad. It may be the beginnings of depresison. I've had brain fog issues for a year, and some have suggested it's actually a kind of depression without the sadness.

I don't understand "brain fog." You might need to be evaluated by a neurologist.

--Brant

I can't speak for Peter, but that's what I would call a general feeling of disconnectedness, inability to focus and concentrate, forgetfulness, difficulty with finding words for common objects. You're right that it could have a neurological source which is why Peter should consider seeing a medical doctor first.

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I can't speak for Peter, but that's what I would call a general feeling of disconnectedness, inability to focus and concentrate, forgetfulness, difficulty with finding words for common objects. You're right that it could have a neurological source which is why Peter should consider seeing a medical doctor first.

One of the mptoms of clinical depression is dissociation. The feeling that "you" is somehow separated from the real physical you. I once had clinical depression and that was one of the odd symptoms I suffered. Fortunately it went away and now the inner "I" is firmly connected to the physical "I".

Ba'al Chatzaf

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I don't think I'm depressed, but unmotivated with little interest in exerting effort. I can't find much worth doing or achieving. I'd say I'm numb.

What exactly do you think depression is, Peter, if not this?

I assumed you had to be sad. It may be the beginnings of depresison. I've had brain fog issues for a year, and some have suggested it's actually a kind of depression without the sadness.

I don't understand "brain fog." You might need to be evaluated by a neurologist.

--Brant

I can't speak for Peter, but that's what I would call a general feeling of disconnectedness, inability to focus and concentrate, forgetfulness, difficulty with finding words for common objects. You're right that it could have a neurological source which is why Peter should consider seeing a medical doctor first.

That pretty much sums it up. It's a cloudy consciousness. I can 'feel' it in a sense. It's a bit like being sleep deprived, like mental fatigue, but all day every day. I used to be somewhat clever, but now I'm fairly dumb. Some days I describe myself as a zombie.

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If I had this "fog" I'd start (after basic blood work) by eliminating certain foods from my diet for weeks at a time. Any kind of sugar. Wheat and derived from wheat. Milk then diary. Etc. Any food packaged in a factory. Anything with MSG or MSG disguised. I'd also make sure I wasn't sleep deprived (or even getting too much sleep.)

I'm assuming you aren't doing any legal or illegal drugs: some of those can screw you up in unexpected ways. You need to work with a good doctor who won't send you to a specialist based on symptoms, only signs. A symptom is your experience of yourself. A sign is as from a test. A doctor may also see something you aren't aware of which he might call a "sign," but this is a grey area. (Don't let anyone send you to a psychiatrist; you can check into psychiatry, but you can't check out.)

--Brant

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If I had this "fog" I'd start (after basic blood work) by eliminating certain foods from my diet for weeks at a time. Any kind of sugar. Wheat and derived from wheat. Milk then diary. Etc. Any food packaged in a factory. Anything with MSG or MSG disguised. I'd also make sure I wasn't sleep deprived (or even getting too much sleep.)

I'm assuming you aren't doing any legal or illegal drugs: some of those can screw you up in unexpected ways. You need to work with a good doctor who won't send you to a specialist based on symptoms, only signs. A symptom is your experience of yourself. A sign is as from a test. A doctor may also see something you aren't aware of which he might call a "sign," but this is a grey area. (Don't let anyone send you to a psychiatrist; you can check into psychiatry, but you can't check out.)

--Brant

Good advice.

I would also consult a nutritionist.

A...

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I read Michael's storyline, maybe I feel my storyline can never be mine.  I said "yes" to something that can never be taken back.  That I am HR the 1#st, and John God exists.

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3 hours ago, atlashead said:

I said "yes" to something that can never be taken back.

AS,

I know the feeling, but it's only a feeling.

And, to be blunt, this is a form of cop-out.

You cannot control what others decide and do (except for limited situations), but you can control what you decide and do.

You say, "Yes." You say, "No."
You say, "Stop." You say, "Go."

You don't have to be right to control this. But you do have to step up.

Letting others do it for you, or letting the past make you give up your volition and judgement for the present and future, is to become a slave of others in the first case, and a coward in the second. (A lazy one at that.)

You don't say, "Yes," once and then you're done. Not on anything, not so long as you control saying it. Besides, if something is super-important, it's worthy of being said, "Yes," to again and again and again. 

Automatic choices should only be made for things that can be automated. Small parts of larger wholes. Or trivial things. And even then, nothing should become so automated in your brain it can no longer be examined once again and reevaluated.

The universe is not static. Nor is life. Contexts change. Knowledge changes. Why shackle your mind against looking simply because you looked once before?

I know what it feels like to close my eyes and complain about the dark. It's bullshit.

You have a precious unique mind. I say use it. That means observing, thinking and choosing as best as you can muster.

Every moment.

Every day.

With every breath you take so long as you can breathe.

Sometimes choosing the same path is best. Sometimes going in a different direction is best. Choosing anew in full awareness--of your past, your present and your future possibilities--every day is how you know.

This is the only way to gain true integrity and, yes, consistency.

You are a human with the potential for greatness, not a chicken clucking the rest of your life away.

It's not easy to reach for greatness anew every day. Why should you reach for greatness anew, anyway? Didn't you already say, "Yes"?

The answer is simple, but not easy.

Because you can.

You can't control the outcome. Not 100%. Sometimes shit happens. Sometimes luck. And sometimes your efforts pay off as planned. But you can control whether to reach anew or stop reaching. That is your true power. Stopping is the easy choice--there are all the reasons in the world to justify that. Reaching anew is not easy, especially when things get complicated. But, man, is it worth it.

Michael

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I am still interested in life. We ordered two cheese steak subs from Fox's Pizza in Fenwick Island tonight to be delivered. The delivery guy wore a mask..  Barbara's was plain and I ordered pickled peppers, onions, tomatoes etc., etc., etc. It was so darn good and filling. I ate the second half around midnight. We had run out of cash so I had to add the 10 dollar tip on a Discover credit card.  

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Spent a weekend in Pittsburgh years ago meeting with Mr Fox, was looking into opening a franchise. Ultimately, it didn’t work out ,  next time try one of the Wedgie sandwiches.

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